Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SBXVII;678295]I must be reading something wrong...... you say Shanahan drafted him, yet on Wiki it says he was drafted in 08. Shanahan was fired prior to the 08 draft, or am I incorrect?[/quote]

Shanahan coached the Broncos in the 2008-2009 season, Ryan Clady was drafted in the 2008 NFL Draft and played his first season in the '08-'09 season. So yes, however unlikely, it is possible for Mike Shanahan to draft a first-round Tackle.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Shanahan drafted Clady.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Ruhskins;678296]Shanahan coached the Broncos in the 2008-2009 season, Ryan Clady was drafted in the 2008 NFL Draft and played his first season in the '08-'09 season. So yes, however unlikely, it is possible for Mike Shanahan to draft a first-round Tackle.[/quote]

Yeah just saw that. Sorry 53. Shanahan was fired Dec. 08 which means he did draft Clady.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

The bad news is even after drafting a 1st round LT who only gave up half a sack in his first year the team still did miserable and the coach was fired.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=tryfuhl;678229]How much longer will he be there? How long can they keep Kolb happy not starting?

Sometimes you move on.[/quote]

he could play at a high level for several more years. so you trade a top qb in the prime of his career cause his back up isn't happy?? i've gotta see it happen before i believe it. i don't think mcnabb is going anywhere.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SBXVII;678299]The bad news is even after drafting a 1st round LT who only gave up half a sack in his first year the team still did miserable and the coach was fired.[/quote]

that was cause the defense was terrible.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SBXVII;678299]The bad news is even after drafting a 1st round LT who only gave up half a sack in his first year the team still did miserable and the coach was fired.[/quote]

I would gladly take a rookie tackle that only gives up half a sack in his first year.

Honestly, if we have had a QB like JaMarcus Russell or Derek "2-completions-in-one-game" Anderson, I'd be all over a QB at #4. I just feel a that a better use of our resources would be a trade down or a top tackle at #4.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

nevermind
edit: by the time my slowhands worked, many others had already chimed in...

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SBXVII;678298]Yeah just saw that. Sorry 53. Shanahan was fired Dec. 08 which means he did draft Clady.[/quote]

No problem. I understand Shanahan has a great blocking scheme and does a fine job with later round picks, I don't question that. But 1 or 2 great players on an o-line can make all the difference in the world. He saw how good a LT Clady was and took him....he was worth a first round pick. Even Shanahan thought so. I get a little nervous and breakout in sweat when people talk about only taking o-linemen in the later rounds. It sounds eerily familiar. :)

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=skinsfan69;678301]that was cause the defense was terrible.[/quote]

No doubt about it, Clady held his own. You can't pin the losses on him.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=53Fan;678304]No problem. I understand Shanahan has a great blocking scheme and does a fine job with later round picks, I don't question that. But 1 or 2 great players on an o-line can make all the difference in the world. He saw how good a LT Clady was and took him....he was worth a first round pick. Even Shanahan thought so. I get a little nervous and breakout in sweat when people talk about only taking o-linemen in the later rounds. It sounds eerily familiar. :)[/quote]

I get nervous at the fact that we don't have a freaking starting Left Tackle! LOL.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Ruhskins;678307]I get nervous at the fact that we don't have a freaking starting Left Tackle! LOL.[/quote]

At this point, I don't know if I'd want the QB job. :eek:

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;678303]nevermind
edit: by the time my slowhands worked, many others had already chimed in...[/quote]

That's what [B]she[/B] said.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SBXVII;678299]The bad news is even after drafting a 1st round LT who only gave up half a sack in his first year the team still did miserable and the coach was fired.[/quote]

Not sure what your point is... Clady is one of the better LT's in the league. Clearly the Broncos had other issues which led to Shanahan's firing.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=53Fan;678272]I keep seeing this like Shanahan doesn't need talent on the o-line. Why did he draft Ryan Clady in the first round? That would be pretty stupid for a guy that can get the same level of play from a mid to late rounder wouldn't it?[/quote]

Hogs Haven recently posted this graphic:

2010 Pro Bowl - Offensive Line Rosters:
- Of the 15 OL - 9 were 1st rd picks - 5 of those were selected in the first seven picks.
- 5 of the seven Tackles were 1st rd picks (3 being top 4 picks)
- 5 of the 11 qb's (including reserves & alternates) were 1st rd picks.

2009 Pro Bowl - OffensiveLine Rosters:
- of the 16 OL - ten were 1st rd picks
- 6 of the 8 Tackles were 1st rd picks
- 4 of the 7 QB's were 1st rd picks.

History shows that L/T has become the new money position. Eight teams drafted an O/T in the first round last April, as many as five could go in the first round this year, possibly four in the first ten selections.

Quarterbacks may be considered cornerstones of franchises, R/B's provide punch...W/R make flashy plays, but the games guts is still rooted in the O/L. No R/B survives long without holes to run through....No W/R catches a pass if the QB dosen't have time to throw it.

History further shows that the likelyhood of drafting a bust at QB in the 1st round far outweighs that of an O/T.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

If this goes down I think its a brilliant move by Philly. Hand over the reins to Kolb while the rest of the team is solid, get something in return for DonnieMac, and unload some salary. Their O is fine, they get secondary help and can use the pick on more secondary or LB.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Ruhskins;678307]I get nervous at the fact that we don't have a freaking starting Left Tackle! LOL.[/quote]

or a starting right tackle.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;678225]Some one on here said that we'd be lucky to get a third rounder for Campbell, well that would have been true before Charlie Whitehurst got traded to seattle, but after that ridiculous trade for a guy whose never thrown a NFL pass, Jason is probably worth a second rounder now. And if this Mcnabb trade goes through, then expect us to get Bradford and expect Jason to be traded on the same day.[/quote]

how do you rationalize that jason campbell is worth a second rounder when that is what is rumored to be mcnabbs value? mcnabb has been to several probowls, led his team to multiple NFC championships and one superbowl.... in mcnabbs worst year, he was twice the QB Campbell was in his best year, yet Mcnabb is only worth a 2nd round pick. If we could get the last pick in the 3rd round for Campbell, i'd feel we completely screwed another team over.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;678323]how do you rationalize that jason campbell is worth a second rounder when that is what is rumored to be mcnabbs value? mcnabb has been to several probowls, led his team to multiple NFC championships and one superbowl.... in mcnabbs worst year, he was twice the QB Campbell was in his best year, yet Mcnabb is only worth a 2nd round pick. If we could get the last pick in the 3rd round for Campbell, i'd feel we completely screwed another team over.[/quote]

So true...and people that harp on JC's experience are missing the point. That experience counts against him because he's played so many games and is still not playing at a level he should be for all that experience. A guy like Whitehurst is worth more to Seattle because he has not played enough to prove he can't. Teams always overpay for what they think is untapped potential. not sure anyone sees JC as anymore then he already is which is just okay.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Mattyk;678312]Not sure what your point is... Clady is one of the better LT's in the league. Clearly the Broncos had other issues which led to Shanahan's firing.[/quote]

Which is exactly my point. We have many issues and a bona fide leader for the offense is one of them. I think it would be awsome to have a 1st round LT, but then we get more of the same at QB. Mediocre talent. If we pick up a LT and RT in the first two rounds we are pushing the QB position into a situation we already have. Might as well stay the course and expect the same results at the QB position. Although the protection will be better. I'm just pointing out that many of the fans here think Bartel and Colt are fodder. Many think SexyRexy is washed up or is a nice clipboard holder. That leaves JC who has other issues besides lack of protection and time to throw the ball.

Who knows maybe picking up the line this year and getting a QB next year is the answer. But don't expect to pick one in the top 5 unless we throw a hell of a lot at whoever has those picks. With this years 4th we could simply add a little to that to get to #1 if we wanted to vs. next year sitting at mid round throwing an extra pick or a couple of players in with it and if we simply pick mid round we are still sitting were we are now.... mid to late 1st round draft picks in JC and SexyRexy.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=SBXVII;678336]Which is exactly my point. We have many issues and a bona fide leader for the offense is one of them. I think it would be awsome to have a 1st round LT, but then we get more of the same at QB. Mediocre talent. If we pick up a LT and RT in the first two rounds we are pushing the QB position into a situation we already have. Might as well stay the course and expect the same results at the QB position. Although the protection will be better. I'm just pointing out that many of the fans here think Bartel and Colt are fodder. Many think SexyRexy is washed up or is a nice clipboard holder. That leaves JC who has other issues besides lack of protection and time to throw the ball.

Who knows maybe picking up the line this year and getting a QB next year is the answer. But don't expect to pick one in the top 5 unless we throw a hell of a lot at whoever has those picks. With this years 4th we could simply add a little to that to get to #1 if we wanted to vs. next year sitting at mid round throwing an extra pick or a couple of players in with it and if we simply pick mid round we are still sitting were we are now.... mid to late 1st round draft picks in JC and SexyRexy.[/quote]

Still not sure what your point is...

I'm in favor of building the line first and worrying about the skill positions later. As we saw last year it's tough to do much of anything if you can't block.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;678323]how do you rationalize that jason campbell is worth a second rounder when that is what is rumored to be mcnabbs value? mcnabb has been to several probowls, led his team to multiple NFC championships and one superbowl.... in mcnabbs worst year, he was twice the QB Campbell was in his best year, yet Mcnabb is only worth a 2nd round pick. If we could get the last pick in the 3rd round for Campbell, i'd feel we completely screwed another team over.[/quote]

McNabb is now on the downside of his career. A few years ago he may have fetched a late 1st or early 2nd round pick, but not today. Despite all his accomplishments, his inability of late, to deliver in the big games works just as much against him as his acolades do for him. After watching Donovan's last performance (playoff game against Dallas) one would/
could be led to believe his skills are diminishing. We know that in this league, it's about what have you done for me lately.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

McNabb still has some quality years left. Not sure anyone is going to give up a 1st for him, but a 2nd would be a no-brainer.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

I think the trade is a wash. The Rams get a QB, who when's on, is probably a top ten QB in the league. The only question is can he stay healthy. If Mac can give the Rams at least 3 or 4 years, then it was definitely worth it.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

If good ol' Mcnugget doesn't get traded now, they've probably jacked up his attitude for 2010. That's good for us.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Longtimefan;678344]McNabb is now on the downside of his career. A few years ago he may have fetched a late 1st or early 2nd round pick, but not today. Despite all his accomplishments, his inability of late, to deliver in the big games works just as much against him as his acolades do for him. After watching Donovan's last performance (playoff game against Dallas) one would/
could be led to believe his skills are diminishing. We know that in this league, it's about what have you done for me lately.[/quote]

Thats exactly what I was going to say to you BigHairedAristocrat.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Longtimefan;678344]McNabb is now on the downside of his career. A few years ago he may have fetched a late 1st or early 2nd round pick, but not today. Despite all his accomplishments, his inability of late, to deliver in the big games works just as much against him as his acolades do for him. After watching Donovan's last performance (playoff game against Dallas) one would/
could be led to believe his skills are diminishing. We know that in this league, it's about what have you done for me lately.[/quote]

yes, and "lately," mcnabb has done more than campbell. Lets compare the performance of the two over the past two years:

Donovan McNabb, Age 33 - 30 starts, 1014 pass attempts, 7469 yards, 45 touchdowns, 21 interceptions.

Jason Campbell, Age 28 - 32 starts, 1013 pass attempts, 6863 yards, 33 touchdowns, 21 interceptions.

mcnabb may be on the downside of his career, but so is campbell - not due to age, but due to simple suckiness. Three of the best QBs in the NFL last year, Manning, Warner, and Favre, were 34, 38, and 40 respectively. By all appearnances, Favre is returning, Warner could have still kept playing at a high level if he wanted to, and Mannings about to get paid the biggest contrat in NFL history. these guys are all getting it done in their mid-to late 30s. and you think teams should shy away from McNabb because he's 33? I dont think there's a reasonable person here who thinks that McNabb won't outplay Campbell over the next 5 years. McNabb is a great NFL QB who is still getting it done. Campbell is 5 years younger, has never "gotten it done," and there's no reason to think he ever will.

For any team out there, Campbell would buy 1 year - tops - before they needed to have a franchise QB in place. McNabb would buy a franchise 3-4 years minimum.

if it were up to me, i'd trade our 2nd rounder plus Andre Carter for McNabb, feel confident in our QB position for the next 5 years, draft a lineman with our 1st round pick, add more linemen in 2011 and then draft a QB of the future in 2012. Of course, the Eagles would never trade McNabb to a division rival, so the point is moot. Bottom line (in my opinion) - even on the "downside" of his career, McNabb at 33 is a better QB and has MORE upside than Campbell at 28.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

If they're gonna do it, McChunkButt wants it done quickly.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81721959&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true.]McNabb says Eagles should 'do it quickly' if they want to deal him[/url]

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;678352]If good ol' Mcnugget doesn't get traded now, they've probably jacked up his attitude for 2010. That's good for us.[/quote]

after all he's been through, i doubt it.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;678367]yes, and "lately," mcnabb has done more than campbell. Lets compare the performance of the two over the past two years:

Donovan McNabb, Age 33 - 30 starts, 1014 pass attempts, 7469 yards, 45 touchdowns, 21 interceptions.

Jason Campbell, Age 28 - 32 starts, 1013 pass attempts, 6863 yards, 33 touchdowns, 21 interceptions.

mcnabb may be on the downside of his career, but so is campbell - not due to age, but due to simple suckiness. Three of the best QBs in the NFL last year, Manning, Warner, and Favre, were 34, 38, and 40 respectively. By all appearnances, Favre is returning, Warner could have still kept playing at a high level if he wanted to, and Mannings about to get paid the biggest contrat in NFL history. these guys are all getting it done in their mid-to late 30s. and you think teams should shy away from McNabb because he's 33? I dont think there's a reasonable person here who thinks that McNabb won't outplay Campbell over the next 5 years. McNabb is a great NFL QB who is still getting it done. Campbell is 5 years younger, has never "gotten it done," and there's no reason to think he ever will.

For any team out there, Campbell would buy 1 year - tops - before they needed to have a franchise QB in place. McNabb would buy a franchise 3-4 years minimum.

if it were up to me, i'd trade our 2nd rounder plus Andre Carter for McNabb, feel confident in our QB position for the next 5 years, draft a lineman with our 1st round pick, add more linemen in 2011 and then draft a QB of the future in 2012. Of course, the Eagles would never trade McNabb to a division rival, so the point is moot. Bottom line (in my opinion) - even on the "downside" of his career, McNabb at 33 is a better QB and has MORE upside than Campbell at 28.[/quote]

I think the whole argument started because of the whole Charlie Whitehurst trade. Although I think this argument is a bit flawed because of the details of the trade. The Seahawks traded their 2010 2nd rounder (top 10 I think) and an undisclosed 2011 pick for a Whitehurst and their later 2010 2nd round pick.

Now the rumored McNabb trade is basically the first pick in the 2nd round and OJ Atogwe. Now, is JC worth more than McNabb? No. But, the Whitehurst trade probably gives you an idea of how much more Campbell should cost, which I would say right now at least a 3rd rounder.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Ruhskins;678377]I think the whole argument started because of the whole Charlie Whitehurst trade. Although I think this argument is a bit flawed because of the details of the trade. The Seahawks traded their 2010 2nd rounder (top 10 I think) and an undisclosed 2011 pick for a Whitehurst and their later 2010 2nd round pick.

Now the rumored McNabb trade is basically the first pick in the 2nd round and OJ Atogwe. Now, is JC worth more than McNabb? No. But, the Whitehurst trade probably gives you an idea of how much more Campbell should cost, which I would say right now at least a 3rd rounder.[/quote]

i'll just reiterate what celts said because, because i couldnt say it any better:

[quote=celts32;678332]So true...and people that harp on JC's experience are missing the point. [B]That experience counts against him because he's played so many games and is still not playing at a level he should be for all that experience. A guy like Whitehurst is worth more to Seattle because he has not played enough to prove he can't. Teams always overpay for what they think is untapped potential. not sure anyone sees JC as anymore then he already is which is just okay[/B].[/quote]

Whitehurst > Campbell

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;678379]i'll just reiterate what celts said because, because i couldnt say it any better:

Whitehurst > Campbell[/quote]

Well I would say that Whitehurst is a bigger risk than Campbell. And as celt said, teams do overpay for what they think is untapped talent.

Besides, for the benefit of our team, I would hope that someone would value Campbell more than Whitehurst. And I wonder what the unbiased eye would think about this comparison. But as I've always said, to me is about the team not the player. Teams tend to look at stats a lot and situations where QBs were when looking at a player like Campbell. Otherwise, you'd never have players having second chances at other teams.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;678367]yes, and "lately," mcnabb has done more than campbell. Lets compare the performance of the two over the past two years:

Donovan McNabb, Age 33 - 30 starts, 1014 pass attempts, 7469 yards, 45 touchdowns, 21 interceptions.

Jason Campbell, Age 28 - 32 starts, 1013 pass attempts, 6863 yards, 33 touchdowns, 21 interceptions.

mcnabb may be on the downside of his career, but so is campbell - not due to age, but due to simple suckiness. Three of the best QBs in the NFL last year, Manning, Warner, and Favre, were 34, 38, and 40 respectively. By all appearnances, Favre is returning, Warner could have still kept playing at a high level if he wanted to, and Mannings about to get paid the biggest contrat in NFL history. these guys are all getting it done in their mid-to late 30s. and you think teams should shy away from McNabb because he's 33? I dont think there's a reasonable person here who thinks that McNabb won't outplay Campbell over the next 5 years. McNabb is a great NFL QB who is still getting it done. Campbell is 5 years younger, has never "gotten it done," and there's no reason to think he ever will.

For any team out there, Campbell would buy 1 year - tops - before they needed to have a franchise QB in place. McNabb would buy a franchise 3-4 years minimum.

if it were up to me, i'd trade our 2nd rounder plus Andre Carter for McNabb, feel confident in our QB position for the next 5 years, draft a lineman with our 1st round pick, add more linemen in 2011 and then draft a QB of the future in 2012. Of course, the Eagles would never trade McNabb to a division rival, so the point is moot. Bottom line (in my opinion) - even on the "downside" of his career, McNabb at 33 is a better QB and has MORE upside than Campbell at 28.[/quote]

I can't argue your assessment.....I wasn't thinking of Donovan in comparison to Jason Campbell, only in terms of his long vs, short term value to the Rams, a team in position to draft for their long term success if they're on board with the hype surrounding Sam Bradford. Personally, I hope the Eagles keep McNabb, I fear Kevin Kolb more at this stage of his development that I do McNabb.

I'm not sure the Rams are a team that's ready to win right now, or improved to the extent an established QB like McNabb is enough to get them over the hump....or, how much further his skills will have diminished by the time they reach that point. If there's a team in the top five that need/should draft a QB it's the Rams.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Man, get this trade done already.

Get McNabb out of our division please, and clear up the draft a little more.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=Longtimefan;678386]If there's a team in the top five that need/should draft a QB it's the Rams.[/quote]

i agree they need a QB, but they have needs pretty much all over their roster, which is why they have the first pick in the draft. As you mentioned, the Rams are most definitely not ready to "win now," but McNabb would allow them to fill a huge need and get the best player in the draft in Suh. It would give them 4-5 years to find a franchise QB. Given how much of a crapshoot the draft is in general, especially with quarterbacks, one could argue that the Rams can't afford to take a 50/50 chance on Bradford. To do so, would set the franchise back even further than it already is. Teams at the bottom can't afford to take many big risks. No matter who they draft this year, the rams will likely be drafting in the top 10 for the next couple of years. They'd be much better of to take as few risks as possible right now. Then, in 2012 they can afford to gamble on a QB. Just my opinion.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

Have I missed something, is Bulger injured? what happened to him last year?

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

McNabb IS NOT on the downside of his career. Jake Delhomme is on the downside of his career. Philly just needs to shore up their line. Macklin and Jackson are still very young wr's. Plus you add in a young Celek who is coming on...and a good young runner. They're going to be very good on offense next year. Count on it.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

I think the Eagles are still waiting for a 1st round offer to come their way for McNabb

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=freddyg12;678391]Have I missed something, is Bulger injured? what happened to him last year?[/quote]

He has taken too many hits.

He looked great a few years ago....now not so much.

Re: Rumor: Eagles and Rams Finalizing Trade Involving McNabb
 

[quote=skinsfan69;678398][B]McNabb IS NOT on the downside of his career. [/B]Jake Delhomme is on the downside of his career. Philly just needs to shore up their line. Macklin and Jackson are still very young wr's. Plus you add in a young Celek who is coming on...and a good young runner. They're going to be very good on offense next year. Count on it.[/quote]

He turns 34 this year. Even if he's still putting up solid numbers, he's on the downside age-wise for sure. Come on. This year will be his 12th season.