Re: Campbell A Raider
 

I'm just glad the saga is over so everyone can move on.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=internetcareer;694608]Jason was never based in reality. He never took personal responsibility. You never heard him say things like "it was my fault". He always came to the after the game internviews with the same ole "well...you know..we just gotta go back and work harder". A lot of 'WE" in his interviews as opposed to "I" need to work harder. He missed a lot of open field receivers that he never saw...but obviously was pointed out to him in the film room. Campbell also missed passes downfield because he is terrible at the long ball. He was always saying "yea, I like to have that one back". But the reality is that Jason was never based in reality. He couldn't GET IT. And since he is in Oakland now, he still doesn't get it. He will be a starter in name only because after he loses this job and Oakland drafts another QB with their 1st pick next year, he will be back to singing the blues and wanting out of Oakland and still believing he is a starting NFL quarterback.
As I have stated many times...Jason is a backup QB. He just hasn't accepted this fact and neither have his legion of fans.[/quote]

All I will say is that not many people will agree with you,on any point.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=Lotus;694629]If you look at the numbers you will see that Campbell is a middle-of-the-road NFL QB. Not the best but not the worst - in the middle. So you can't really call him a bust. He never realized the promise that we had hoped for when we traded up for him and thus the trade up was somewhat foolhardy. But that does not make him a bust. And he certainly is not one of the greatest team draft busts.[/quote]

He's a bust from the standpoint that they gave up 3 pick to get him. 3 picks that could have resulted in great players. I dont think they would give up 3 picks to get a middle of the road QB, they expected him to be great and he wasnt.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

Busts are guys that can't play. JC can play.

What the Skins gave up to draft him really doesn't define him as a bust or not.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=irish;694668]He's a bust from the standpoint that they gave up 3 pick to get him. 3 picks that could have resulted in great players. I dont think they would give up 3 picks to get a middle of the road QB, they expected him to be great and he wasnt.[/quote]

As Matty pointed out, the three picks make for a bad trade, not a bust. On this one can criticize the trade, not the player. JC is decent.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

JC's #'s have improved every year and that is playing with a injury depleted and bad OL. He will succeed.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=irish;694668]He's a bust from the standpoint that they gave up 3 pick to get him. 3 picks that could have resulted in great players. I dont think they would give up 3 picks to get a middle of the road QB, they expected him to be great and he wasnt.[/quote]

Been a fan of Pro football for a long time,teams(Giants ,Skins,Cowboys) don't matter when it comes to being a great QB not one has ever been great by himself.
Who would the 3 picks have been that would have been great had you not gotten Jason?

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

Cutting JaMarcus would save $6.45 million
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 25, 2010 12:03 PM ET
The Oakland Raiders have already paid JaMarcus Russell $36 million for a whole lot of nothing.

So do they now view him as a sunk cost or could they possibly pour more money down the drain? The Raiders can save $6.45 million by cutting Russell before the start of the season.

Russell has said in the past he won't take a pay cut, and that's far too much money to pay for a guy if he's Jason Campbell's backup. Tom Cable said there are "decisions" to be made at quarterback, but expects Russell to attend Oakland's post-draft minicamp Friday.

We'll see.

The Raiders would be risking the $6.45 million by keeping Russell in the offseason. They would owe him the money if he got hurt in workouts and placed on injured reserve.

The San Francisco Chronicle believes Cable hinted at Russell's departure:

"Adding Jason [Campbell] to this football team was very important," Cable said. "He is a guy in need of a fresh start himself."

The Raiders are an organization in need of fresh start. That can only happen with Russell elsewhere.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jamarcus Russell is finished. What a waste of a gigantic arm. He's fat and lazy. An example of a guy who just wanted to get paid.

Once he gets cut, he'll probably balloon to 350lbs and fade into oblivion. I can't stand guys like him.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=Mattyk;694669]Busts are guys that can't play. JC can play.

What the Skins gave up to draft him really doesn't define him as a bust or not.[/quote]

Sort of. There are certainly different levels of bust. We gave up three picks, and drafted him in the first round. He did absolutely NOTHING for us (disagree...how's a 4 win season feel?). We traded him for a 4th round pick in 2012 which may not even happen if a CBA is not reached. Due to the fact that he bamboozled a lot of people to thinking he had top notch talent, he was a bust for us. Just a minor one.

So let me ask you this, if he plays for the raiders and pulls a Russell and throws for 4ish tds and 10ints and loses his job never to regain it, I would certainly label him as a full blown bust. That is more likely than him all of sudden "getting it" and lifting the raiders to respectable levels.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=GMScud;694689]I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jamarcus Russell is finished. What a waste of a gigantic arm. He's fat and lazy. An example of a guy who just wanted to get paid.

Once he gets cut, he'll probably balloon to 350lbs and fade into oblivion. I can't stand guys like him.[/quote]


Speaking of busts. JR is a PRIME example of what a true bust happens to be. What a waste of a tremendous amount of CASH.

This fat cat is the exact reason the CBA is in dire need of restructure.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

Let's face facts here, we need someone that can WIN us games. That when the game is on the line, someone steps up and wins it for us. There has been no one on this roster to do that for years. Campbell is NOT that guy. Sure, he was a great locker room presence, and a stand up guy, and we will all miss that, but as a starting QB he proved over and over that he is not that guy. Shame on us for believing he could be our savior, he has second string talent. He'll make a great back up for someone, but unfortunately he went to a situation that will likely chew him up and spit him out cause he needs a HUGE supporting cast to overshadow his lack of talent on the field.
I certainly wish him the best, and I hope that the change in scenary means he will be a changed QB and I certainly hope he becomes a pro bowler, because good people deserve second chances. I just don't see his talent being enough to make it.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;694694]Speaking of busts. JR is a PRIME example of what a true bust happens to be. What a waste of a tremendous amount of CASH.

This fat cat is the exact reason the CBA is in dire need of restructure.[/quote]

Russell is definately a massive bust at this point, but you never know, he could get out from under the dysfunctional raiders thumb and do something somewhere else. He needed to be tutored and he was thrown in to the wolves. He needs to simmer on someone's bench for a year or two, then maybe he could resurface somewhere and do something. Of course, this is unlikely, but just saying.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;694694]Speaking of busts. JR is a PRIME example of what a true bust happens to be. What a waste of a tremendous amount of CASH.

[B]This fat cat is the exact reason the CBA is in dire need of restructure[/B].[/quote]

there has been a dire need for a rookie wage scale for a long time now. there is no way anyone should receive anything more than 5 mil guaranteed without playing a down of nfl football.

as for contracts like fat al's that's just piss poor management right there

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=mlmdub130;694709][B]there has been a dire need for a rookie wage scale for a long time now. [/B]there is no way anyone should receive anything more than 5 mil guaranteed without playing a down of nfl football.

as for contracts like fat al's that's just piss poor management right there[/quote]

I agree. I mean, Sam Bradford is going to get around $50M in guarantees before he ever lines up under center for the Rams. I think it's unfair for these high dollar rookies to eat up that much cash at the expense of proven vets who have already shed plenty of blood for their team(s).

Also, a lot of these kids who just became overnight millionares are pretty immature. Giving them all that cash increases the chances that they'll get lazy or screw up. Make them earn some of it before you give them 8 figures of guaranteed $.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=jsarno;694690]Sort of. There are certainly different levels of bust. We gave up three picks, and drafted him in the first round. He did absolutely NOTHING for us (disagree...how's a 4 win season feel?). We traded him for a 4th round pick in 2012 which may not even happen if a CBA is not reached. Due to the fact that he bamboozled a lot of people to thinking he had top notch talent, he was a bust for us. Just a minor one.

So let me ask you this, if he plays for the raiders and pulls a Russell and throws for 4ish tds and 10ints and loses his job never to regain it, I would certainly label him as a full blown bust. That is more likely than him all of sudden "getting it" and lifting the raiders to respectable levels.[/quote]There are not different levels of busts. A bust is a guy who can not play.

Making up future scenarios that have no chance of happening doesn't make us look at the last three years in a different light, it just makes you look really, really bitter.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

I do think we can close the book on the trades for both Campbell and McIntosh as being cases of over-compensation. Neither have performed quite at the level we gave up to get them.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

Sad to see JC go in the same way I would be to see Reed Doughty go if he was cut. Both played hard and stayed classy but neither were "The Best" at their position.

I was quite surprised to learn that JC17 leaves as the sixth most prolific QB in team history. Not bad for a bust who only knows how to check down. I hope he throws caution to the wind and starts airing it out in Choakland. It remains to be seen if any of their receivers can catch but at least he's got a young speed WR he's unlikely to overthrow in DHB.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=dgack;694744]Sad to see JC go in the same way I would be to see Reed Doughty go if he was cut. Both played hard and stayed classy but neither were "The Best" at their position.

I was quite surprised to learn that JC17 leaves as the sixth most prolific QB in team history. Not bad for a bust who only knows how to check down. I hope he throws caution to the wind and starts airing it out in Choakland. It remains to be seen if any of their receivers can catch but at least he's got a young speed WR he's unlikely to overthrow in DHB.[/quote]

It's actually pretty easy to argue that Louis Murphy is the better of the two wideouts Oakland drafted last year. DHB is fast. Thats about it.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=GTripp0012;694735]There are not different levels of busts.[/quote]

You are wrong sir. This is why they have rankings of the biggest busts ever, if there weren't different levels of busts, then they would all be tied.

[quote]A bust is a guy who can not play.[/quote]

Explain, "can not play". Ryan Leaf, "played", just played poorly. Clearly he was a mega bust. Jason Campbell played poorly for us for the most part, i'd label that a bust considering where he came from trading up to get him in the first round. If you sign a QB from the undrafted free agent list and he doesn't perform, is he a "bust"? No. But if you sign a first rounder and he doesn't perform then he is certainly a bust (see Shuler). Campbell did not perform to first round potential, that makes him a bust, albeit a small one.

[quote]Making up future scenarios that have no chance of happening doesn't make us look at the last three years in a different light, it just makes you look really, really bitter.[/quote]

Wrong again sir, I was just pointing out how people will view him. FYI, it's been 4 years with Campbell. He can lose the bust status if he performs well with the raiders, I just doubt it will happen since his supporting cast sucks over there. That was the point.
ps, He was a first round draft pick and was 20-32 over the 4 years, and now he's gone. Right now, he is a bust, he at least has the opportunity to get himself off the bust list.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

Personally, I think Patrick Ramsey was simply not given a chance.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=GTripp0012;694735] it just makes you look really, really bitter.[/quote]

To be honest, I am bitter, but not at Campbell...I didn't really think he was going to lead us anywhere, and he didn't. I saw him for what he was, a second stringer. I didn't agree with trading up to get him either, but trusted in Gibbs. I am bitter at Snyder and Cerrato as well as the jokes they hired like Zorn. We are a classy orginization and we have one of the most loyal fan bases in the world, and we are not being provided with a winning orginization, and we have been more than patient.
I can only hope the signing of Allen and Shanny will turn this around. If only Snyder stays away.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;694750]Personally, I think Patrick Ramsey was simply not given a chance.[/quote]

Yet, another bust. Obviously he wasnt the answer either considering he is out of the NFL and no one wanted him after going to NY and Denver.
We have a history of signing sub-par qbs and expecting great results. Frerotte, Banks, and Ramsey are just a few.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

How can anyone say Patrick Ramsey wasn't given a chance?

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

Get em while they're hot.
[IMG]http://lp.imageg.net/prod?set=key[name],value[CAMPBELL]&set=key[number],value[17]&set=key[displaysize],value[220]&load=url[http://chains.imageg.net/graphics/dynamic/chains/p2755149_customback.chain][/IMG]

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

probably when gibbs left brunell in after the first half of the season opener with ramsey never starting again despite outplaying brunell in preseason when it was an "open competition".

ramsey wasnt a gibbs type qb, he preferred smarter qbs who valued possessions and didnt cause my turnovers. ramsey would throw it up for grabs sometimes.

honestly, i dont blame gibbs for going with brunell, its his right as HC to pick the guy he wants to run his offense through.

Now shannahan and kyle come in and dont think they can run their offense through campbell (probably b/c he doesnt make quick reads or decisions).

gibbs overreached big time in drafting campbell imo. maybe b/c campbell is such a good character religous guy which gibbs values, he had a great frame for being an nfc east qb, had a strong arm.

i respect campbell but im real glad we are upgrading the qb position. i just dont know how much of an upgrade mcnabb is. i hope we dont try to expect or ask too much of him.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=jsarno;694690]Sort of. There are certainly different levels of bust. We gave up three picks, and drafted him in the first round. He did absolutely NOTHING for us (disagree...how's a 4 win season feel?). We traded him for a 4th round pick in 2012 which may not even happen if a CBA is not reached. Due to the fact that he bamboozled a lot of people to thinking he had top notch talent, he was a bust for us. Just a minor one.

So let me ask you this, if he plays for the raiders and pulls a Russell and throws for 4ish tds and 10ints and loses his job never to regain it, I would certainly label him as a full blown bust. That is more likely than him all of sudden "getting it" and lifting the raiders to respectable levels.[/quote]

To call JC " a bust" is just ridiculous. I would say he didn't live up to expectations. But JC is a starting QB in the NFL. Is he a top one? No. A bust IMO is Jamarcus Russell, Heath Shuler, Cade McNown, Rick Mirer, David Klingler, Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf. Those guys simply can not or couldn't play in the NFL.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=12thMan;694753]How can anyone say Patrick Ramsey wasn't given a chance?[/quote]

Sorry, I forgot to put on my sarcasm/irony font.

At this point, arguments over Campbell and his legacy are about as fruitful as discussing the same about Ramsey. I expect that Campbell will have more success in his post Skins career than Ramsey has had in his, BUT the bottom line is - it just doesn't matter to the Skins.

ce'st la vie. Good bye and Good luck JC. As with Patrick, we hoped you'd be the "Franchise QB" that would lead us to the promised land and you weren't.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=GTripp0012;694735]There are not different levels of busts. A bust is a guy who can not play.[/quote]

Agreed 110%.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=Mattyk;694777]Agreed 110%.[/quote]

Clearly you missed this:
[i]This is why they have rankings of the biggest busts ever, if there weren't different levels of busts, then they would all be tied.[/i]

You don't have to change your mind, cause you can believe what you want, but what explanation do you have for rankings of busts over the years if there are no levels of busts?

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

we had this whole freakin discussion the end of last season regarding laundry

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/33272-landry-is-now-a-bust.html[/url]

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=jsarno;694782]Clearly you missed this:
[i][B]This is why they have rankings of the biggest busts ever, if there weren't different levels of busts, then they would all be tied.[/B][/i]

You don't have to change your mind, cause you can believe what you want, but what explanation do you have for rankings of busts over the years if there are no levels of busts?[/quote]

I thought that NFLN had those shows so that they had [I]something[/I] to air in May, June, etc.

In my mind all busts are tied. They all are wasted draft picks.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=jsarno;694782]Clearly you missed this:
[i]This is why they have rankings of the biggest busts ever, if there weren't different levels of busts, then they would all be tied.[/i]

You don't have to change your mind, cause you can believe what you want, but [B]what explanation do you have for rankings of busts over the years if there are no levels of busts?[/B][/quote]

Because it's a two step process: Was the player a bust or not? If a bust, then he goes into a pile of other busts. Sifting through the pile, we can agree that Jamarcus, Ryan Leaf and Heath Shuler were busts. Which was the biggest? That's when the discussion as to "level of bust" begins.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=jsarno;694782]Clearly you missed this:
[I]This is why they have rankings of the biggest busts ever, if there weren't different levels of busts, then they would all be tied.[/I]

You don't have to change your mind, cause you can believe what you want, but what explanation do you have for rankings of busts over the years if there are no levels of busts?[/quote]

nah I didn't miss anything, a guy is a bust or he's not. Pretty simple.

Rankings are for TV shows. Pretty sure you won't be seeing JC on any top 10 bust shows either.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

^^ Much more concisely put.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=GTripp0012;694738]I do think we can close the book on the trades for both Campbell and McIntosh as being cases of over-compensation. Neither have performed quite at the level we gave up to get them.[/quote]Well said.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=GTripp0012;694738]I do think we can close the book on the trades for both Campbell and McIntosh as being cases of over-compensation. Neither have performed quite at the level we gave up to get them.[/quote]

Yeah that's pretty much the gist of it. Rocky hasn't played up to what we hoped, and when you draft a QB in the 1st round, obviously the expectation is that he'll be a higher level starter for a number of years for your team. What makes it worse is that we gave up picks to move up and get both of them, so the net loss is that much worse.

I agree with Matty that a bust is a guy who can't play. JC and RM are both starting caliber NFL players, but they just haven't lived up to their expectations. Busts? No. What the Redskins were hoping for? No.

I still think Jason could put up some nice numbers under the Shanahans, but that's irrelevant at this point.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

Some seem to have very loose definitions of bust, but traditionally a bust is a guy that is an epic failure. A guy that comes into the league with high expectations and quickly proves that he is not a NFL caliber player.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

[quote=Mattyk;694804]Some seem to have very loose definitions of bust, but traditionally a bust is a guy that is an epic failure. A guy that comes into the league with high expectations and quickly proves that he is not a NFL caliber player.[/quote]

Agreed. Not meeting expectations does not equate to bust. Vernon Gholston is a good example of a bust in recent years. 6th overall pick, and can't even get on the field.

As someone mentioned earlier- Heath Shuler, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Mike Williams (USC WR), Charles Rogers- these are guys that are busts. College studs drafted very high who amounted to diddly poo in the NFL.

If a bust is a 1st round pick that is a starter in the NFL but not a star... well, then the NFL is full of starting players that are busts. Not the case IMO.

Re: Campbell A Raider
 

Shuler was the biggest bust because it cost us most of the 90's. We spent the rest of the decade having starters at QB that were really brought in for depth purposes(Frerotte, Green), then acquired Brad Johnson for 2 seasons. IF Shuler would have been the stud he was projected to be we would have been in a few playoffs in the mid 90's. We were close with both Gus and Trent.