Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;728725]^ are u kidding? Jackson is a top 5 WR. Do you watch football?[/quote]



Are you serious? I can't tell whether you purposely say silly things or really are silly.

1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Chad Johnson
5. Regie Wayne


Hell, I'm not even sure he's better than DeSean Jackson, Hines Ward, Steve Smith or Brandon Marshall. Top 5 my ass.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

^ ocho cinco isn't better than VJ at this point in his career. Jackson is widely regarded as a top 5 WR. Look at his numbers over the past 2 seasons. Andre Johnson, Fitz , Moss , And Marshall I agree with. Then VJ is right behind them

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Hines Ward? Cmon dude seriously?

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=saden1;728727]Are you serious? I can't tell whether you purposely say silly things or really are silly.

1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Chad Johnson
5. Regie Wayne


Hell, I'm not even sure he's better than DeSean Jackson, Hines Ward, Steve Smith or Brandon Marshall. Top 5 my ass.[/quote]

Eh, Chad Johnson shouldn't be on that list. Miles Austin, Sidney Rice when healthy, and Roddy White are all better then Ocho (and VJax) at this point.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

^ Austin and Rice have had one good season. VJ has been really good for 2-3 years now.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

In my opinion, V Jackson is a pure #1 receiver, altho, not in the top 12 in the league. Maybe 12 or 13, but not even top 10.

-Fitz
-Johnson
-Johnson Jr.
-Moss
-Marshall
-Wayne
-White
-Smith
-Welker
-Austin
-Jennings




The guy wants to get paid like he is in the top 5 or 6 WR talents in the league. Not gonna happen, and I dont blame SD for calling his bluff. If V.J. doesn't somehow get signed to a team this year, he will, in my opinion, end up losing money when he does sign a deal after the CBA or before, whichever. Plus, think about these points. He gets one year older. He doesn't play football for over a year. He loses one more year towards being UFA. Teams will want to draft their next big WR instead of picking him up for a load of $. His price will definitely go down from what he is asking for now.

BUT.............


Look at our recent history drafting WR's. Shit, look at our two "no Miss" 2nd rounders. VJ in my honest opinion is definitely worth a 2nd rounder. A second and a 5th even. I think we should swing a deal with SD, and get a proven commodity instead of fvckin whiffing in the draft. If Shanny is all about WIN NOW, why not get this top tier, young recever in his prime for McNabb to throw to? When its all said and done, alot of the experts think when he does get signed, his susp. will only be 3 games, and the xtra 3 will get canned. We need to get this deal done. And we need him in practice now.

Jackson

Moss

Armstrong............Our WR's just went from a laughing stock to the best in the NFC East, and McNabb gets an additional weapon with great hands to throw to. If we are serious about making a push, we should make this deal. Definitely worth a 2 and 5.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

How many guys in this league have had one or two good before they folded and done disappeared? Give me a break, guys like Rice and and Jackson haven't had nearly enough good seasons to say they're better than Ward, Wayne, Smith, or Johnson. Just because you're younger doesn't mean better. And if you think Vincent Jackson (only two good season, not even a 1200 yard season...Santana Moss has had one of those...lol) is better than Reggie Wayne or Chad Johnson you're out of your f'ing mind. We're comparing these guys to perennial pro-bowlers for god sake.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

If Jackson keeps hitting the bottle, he ain't going to be a top 5 WR.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Who the f*ck is Miles Austin? Should I know who he is? Should I care? Give me a break!

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Again miles Austin has only had 1 season . Roddy White is a solid player but not the playmaker Vj is. Welker is a Slot Reciever. Either way VJ is clearly in the top 10 and to me top 5 because of his big play abilities. We all have different opinions , either way we agree that he would really help us out

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Thank you saden! Ppl are all over Austin! Let him prove it one more year folks

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;728741]Again miles Austin has only had 1 season . Roddy White is a solid player but not the playmaker Vj is. Welker is a Slot Reciever. Either way VJ is clearly in the top 10 and to me top 5 because of his big play abilities. We all have different opinions , either way we agree that he would really help us out[/quote]

Not playing a whole season is not going to help him to be a top wideout. It seems like AJ Smith is out to F with Jackson.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

So your telling me if you had a chance to get VJ or Ward or Ocho, you wouldn't take VJ?

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=saden1;728727]Are you serious? I can't tell whether you purposely say silly things or really are silly.

1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Chad Johnson
5. Regie Wayne


Hell, I'm not even sure he's better than DeSean Jackson, Hines Ward, Steve Smith or Brandon Marshall. Top 5 my ass.[/quote]You really think Ocho is better than Jackson? Good player and all, master of running a lot of intermediate routes. Simply can't make plays like Jackson does either after the catch or downfield. I get the whole two years argument, but Ochocinco was last a 90 catch, 1,400 yard guy in 2007 (age 29). Don't know how he could be on anyone's top five list anymore based on that.

You could substitute Smith, who is still pretty dominant out there even though he's seeing his workload decreased. But if you're top five list is Moss, Johnson, Fitzgerald, Smith, and Wayne: players like Roddy White and Vincent Jackson are right there to take over as Moss/Smith/Wayne decline.

Even if Jackson is not quite top five, it seems foolish to suggest he's not going to be there soon, especially when that list is populated by 30+ year olds.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;728748]So your telling me if you had a chance to get VJ or Ward or Ocho, you wouldn't take VJ?[/quote]

If my goal is to win now, which it is, I'd take Johnson specially in light of the kind of money Jackson wants. If I want to build a team for the future I would rather have Brandon Marshall, DeSean Jackson and Santonio Holmes over Vincent Jackson.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

you would take Vj over Wes Welker...........the wes welker with over 120 catches in a season. That Welker..........

Who gives a shit where he lines up. That doesn't matter. He catches the ball. Period!

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;728748]So your telling me if you had a chance to get VJ or Ward or Ocho, you wouldn't take VJ?[/quote]

I don't see the point of people downplaying VJ's abilities. It's just circumstances ...just like our malcontent Haynesworth has pissed out the FO, it seems that VJ has pissed off the Chargers' FO. And now they are going to make an example out of him and let him holdout. They don't have the need to trade him and they are going to let him sit for the whole season. Maybe later in the season they'll trade him, but he is not going anywhere any time soon.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Holmes isn't better than Jackson man. How would you take a career number 2 over a Stud number 1?

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

agreed with the jackson over holmes point.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;728751]You really think Ocho is better than Jackson? Good player and all, master of running a lot of intermediate routes. Simply can't make plays like Jackson does either after the catch or downfield. I get the whole two years argument, but Ochocinco was last a 90 catch, 1,400 yard guy in 2007 (age 29). Don't know how he could be on anyone's top five list anymore based on that.

You could substitute Smith, who is still pretty dominant out there even though he's seeing his workload decreased. But if you're top five list is Moss, Johnson, Fitzgerald, Smith, and Wayne: players like Roddy White and Vincent Jackson are right there to take over as Moss/Smith/Wayne decline.

Even if Jackson is not quite top five, it seems foolish to suggest he's not going to be there soon, especially when that list is populated by 30+ year olds.[/quote]

Jackson is 28 next January....he ain't no spring chicken and he's certainly not worth the kind of money he's asking for. When these players take over I'll be happy to reevaluate my position.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Mechanix544;728755]you would take Vj over Wes Welker...........the wes welker with over 120 catches in a season. That Welker..........

Who gives a shit where he lines up. That doesn't matter. He catches the ball. Period![/quote]

Never said I would take VJ over Welker, I was just saying VJ has put up Pro Bowl numbers as a Number 1 for 2-3 years now, Welker catches alot of 5 yard passes, plus he has Randy Moss as the Number 1

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Hey we all can argue but at the end of the day I see us sticking with our WR group that we have. Screw VJ, Ocho, Ward! Their not Redskins lol

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;728757]Holmes isn't better than Jackson man. How would you take a career number 2 over a Stud number 1?[/quote]

He was number #1 play maker for the Steelers last year.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=saden1;728760]Jackson is 28 next January....he ain't no spring chicken and he's certainly not worth the kind of money he's asking for. When these players take over I'll be happy to reevaluate my position.[/quote]No, he's not young-young, but he's also in the same class as, without the same dropoff risk of, guys like Moss and Steve Smith.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

No doubt, both had really good years.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;728731]^ Austin and Rice have had one good season. VJ has been really good for 2-3 years now.[/quote]

Yeah, but the thing is Austin and Rice passed the 1,300 yard mark. Once a player makes it to that point you know theres something else besides QB play at work. Only player I can think of that struggled after getting 1,300 yards was Javon Walker and that was thanks to injury.

1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Randy Moss
4. Calvin Johnson (984 yards in 14 games last year with a rookie QB, 1,300 yards the year before)
5a. Wes Welker (More yards then Moss but 9 fewer TD's)
5b. Roddy White (Got 1,200 yards with one of the worst QB groups in the league in 2007)
7. Reggie Wayne
8. Anquan Boldin
9. Brandon Marshall
10. Miles Austin

On top of that VJax isn't even the best receiver on his own team. I'm all for bringing him in at a discount but AJ Smith is all so stubborn.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

If you simply think Jackson is better because he's younger and can get down field better you can have him but to me Johnson is a proven commodity...a pro's pro. And despite missing a game and half and a slow old fart he put on a great show...enjoy:

[yt]EVXUMZ6m3GQ[/yt]

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;728765]No, he's not young-young, but he's also in the same class as, without the same dropoff risk of, guys like Moss and Steve Smith.[/quote]

You think him and Rice deserves top 5 money?

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=saden1;728773]You think him and Rice deserves top 5 money?[/quote]Oh, of course. You give me someone as proven as Jackson (and then to a lesser proven extent, Rice and Austin), and those are your surest bets from an investment perspective. (Rice's injury would hurt his value a bit).

I'm sure they'd compromise and take top ten money, and then both sides would be happy, but the reason that Jackson is such a lost man in San Diego is because hes a FA next offseason, and he's already suspended for 3+ weeks. That's not valuable to them, but it's very valuable to other teams. I don't blame SD at all for holding him until they get an offer they like.

But now, they pretty much just have two suitors for him: us and Seattle. That lowers the trade compensation substantially.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;728777]Oh, of course. You give me someone as proven as Jackson (and then to a lesser proven extent, Rice and Austin), and those are your surest bets from an investment perspective. (Rice's injury would hurt his value a bit).

I'm sure they'd compromise and take top ten money, and then both sides would be happy, but the reason that Jackson is such a lost man in San Diego is because hes a FA next offseason, and he's already suspended for 3+ weeks. That's not valuable to them, but it's very valuable to other teams. I don't blame SD at all for holding him until they get an offer they like.

But now, they pretty much just have two suitors for him: us and Seattle. That lowers the trade compensation substantially.[/quote]

Give me your top 5.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

I'm unsure as to which players in history sat out for a better contract and what happened with it, but I can't imagine sitting out the entire season is good for any player. You only have a limited amount of years to play, so don't take one away, and even worse, he won't be getting any better sitting out a year. Who knows if his talents will ever be as high as they are right now?
(in short, VJ is a moron)

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=saden1;728780]Give me your top 5.[/quote]Fitzgerald, Johnson, Wayne, Jackson, either Moss or Smith at five.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Agree with Gtripp

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;728771]Yeah, but the thing is Austin and Rice passed the 1,300 yard mark. Once a player makes it to that point you know theres something else besides QB play at work. Only player I can think of that struggled after getting 1,300 yards was Javon Walker and that was thanks to injury.

1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Randy Moss
4. Calvin Johnson (984 yards in 14 games last year with a rookie QB, 1,300 yards the year before)
5a. Wes Welker (More yards then Moss but 9 fewer TD's)
5b. Roddy White (Got 1,200 yards with one of the worst QB groups in the league in 2007)
7. Boldin
8. Marshall
9. Austin
10. Rice

[quote]On top of that VJax isn't even the best receiver on his own team. I'm all for bringing him in at a discount but AJ Smith is all so stubborn.[/quote]

I disagree with your list. 1-4 is fine, arguable, but fine...wes Welker is not #5. There is a reason he wasn't anything super special in Miami, he's no #1, he's the best damn compliment wr in the game though. Marshall is more talented than most you have mentioned. Jackson is certainly in the top ten or should be very darn close. But I fail to see how he is not the best receiver on his own team. Gates is a TE, and even Gates thinks Jackson is super talented. Floyd? No way. Jackson doesn't get as much credit because San Diego does such a great job at spreading the ball around...especially to the RB's who caught 97 passes total last year. (106 in 08) Gates is a great talent...as a TE, but he would be average at best as a WR. He can not burn DB's in the secondary, and while his route running is excellent vs LB's, DB's would learn how to play him quickly. You can put Jackson as the #1, or even a slot receiver, and he would succeed, same can not be said for Gates. (I only use gates cause I am assuming that's who you were referring to)

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

There's absolutely no logical reason to include Jackson in the top five and leave DeSean Jackson and Brandon Marshall out...we will simply have to agree to disagree. It don't make sense.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=saden1;728760]Jackson is 28 next January....he ain't no spring chicken and he's certainly not worth the kind of money he's asking for. When these players take over I'll be happy to reevaluate my position.[/quote]

Just an FYI, Jackson will be 27 all season, and that's the exact year Marvin Harrison broke out, and was extremely productive for 8 more years after that. WR isn't like RB...there is no wall at 30. I'd say the wall for wr's is 34 or 35.
The man is 6'5" 241lbs, and can run pretty darn fast. He's a freak, and on a team like the Skins, 1300+ yards would be extremely likely given we now have a QB to throw to him. DB's just can't match up with him.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=saden1;728795]There's absolutely no logical reason to include Jackson in the top five and leave DeSean Jackson and Brandon Marshall out...we will simply have to agree to disagree. It don't make sense.[/quote]

I'd take Vincent over DeSean. DeSean is a great Welker type of WR, but not a top ten IMO like Vincent is. I agree about Marshall though.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

DeSean Jackson is not in the top 5 and neither is Vincent Jackson.

1a) Andre Johnson
1b) Larry Fitzgerald
3) Reggie Wayne
4) Brandon Marshall
5) Randy Moss

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=saden1;728795]There's absolutely no logical reason to include Jackson in the top five and leave DeSean Jackson and Brandon Marshall out...we will simply have to agree to disagree. It don't make sense.[/quote]Marshall is good. Not great. Just good. No way is he higher than ten on any real list.

Jackson, I mean, do we include punt return value? If we do, he might to enough well to be more valuable than Steve Smith or Randy Moss, as well as Jackson. I like DeSean Jackson, and feel he may become the premier deep threat in football if he isn't already, but I can easily argue that Jackson is already a complete player while much of Jackson's route running remains a work in progress. (By that I mean, more than a year away from being a complete route runner, if he does get there).

I'd take Jackson over Marshall any day though.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;728801]Marshall is good. Not great. Just good. No way is he higher than ten on any real list.

Jackson, I mean, do we include punt return value? If we do, he might to enough well to be more valuable than Steve Smith or Randy Moss, as well as Jackson. I like DeSean Jackson, and feel he may become the premier deep threat in football if he isn't already, but I can easily argue that Jackson is already a complete player while much of Jackson's route running remains a work in progress. (By that I mean, more than a year away from being a complete route runner, if he does get there).

I'd take Jackson over Marshall any day though.[/quote]

I wouldn't, I guess multiple consecutive 100 catch seasons dont carry much weight as it used to