Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

It's funny when the defense REALLY needed a stop they played tight man to man bump and run and got off the field. Maybe something to think about Haslett.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;749404]Well we lost a 3 point game. (hopefully no one will argue this). If Al makes one big play, it could have made a difference.

We had one sack, you honestly think it would have hurt us to have a DPOY on the field tonight?

More power to you.[/quote]



[COLOR=Red][B]Welcome to The Warpath, Chad Speck.[/B][/COLOR]

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;749561]Haynesworth doesn't make or break this game. It's amusing to throw out there DPOY and best talented player on the team, when the guy's had 1.5 great seasons (26 starts over 2 years from 07-08) and hasn't been worth the Charmin he wipes his butt with since coming to DC.

It is what it is. Would he have made a difference? Probably not, considering how fast paced the Colts offense is. He would have been sucking wind and taking plays off in order to catch up. We'll never know.

What did make a difference was the amount of missed opportunities and mistakes both sides of the ball had. Dropped INTs, missed assignments, lack of pressure, abandoning the run, ill-advised throws. These are things that this team needs to work on. Not whether one player plays or not.[/quote]

We gave up we gave up [B][U]171 yards rushing on 28 carries for an average of 6.1 yards a carry.[/U][/B], to one of the worst rushing teams in the league. We were manhandled. Haynesworth would not have made a difference? Really? That is like if we gave up 6 to 8 sacks during a game where our best Offenive lineman was on the bench injury free and then saying he would not have made a difference. That's just dumb.
You can not judge defensive lineman with stats like sacks and think you have a complete picture. Far example DE Carter had team leading 10 or so sacks last season but he sucks this year. Stats do not always tell the complete picture.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

I honestly don't think AH would have made a difference. If anything, he would have been a huge liability against that hurry up offense.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Mattyk;749618]I honestly don't think AH would have made a difference. If anything, he would have been a huge liability against that hurry up offense.[/quote]

We agree to disagree, but when give up up 171 yards rushing on 28 carries for an average of 6.1 yards a carry, you are not going to win many games. Hurry offense or not.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Defensewins;749621]We agree to disagree, but when give up up 171 yards rushing on 28 carries for an average of 6.1 yards a carry, you are not going to win many games. .[/quote]

You really think he would have made a difference out there?? Guys that are actually in good football shape were sucking wind, just how effective do you think he would have been?

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Mattyk;749622]You really think he would have made a difference out there?? Guys that are actually in good football shape were sucking wind, just how effective do you think he would have been?[/quote]

Who knows... he was not even active or in uniform.
You would think we are the first team to see the hurry up offense. We did not handle it well.
If the Hurry up is incredibly effective as you describe why does Manning only have one Superbowl win? The reality is Hasslett did not do of good job of preparing his game plan. He went light with very few DL and we got gashed in the running game.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

The hurry up worked well against a D that is aggressive and uses a lot of different packages/subs.

For someone who doesn't know, you seem awfully convinced he would have made a difference out there.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Defensewins;749637]Who knows... he was not even active or in uniform.
You would think we are the first team to see the hurry up offense. We did not handle it well.
If the Hurry up is incredibly effective as you describe why does Manning only have one Superbowl win? The reality is Hasslett did not do of good job of preparing his game plan. He went light with very few DL and we got gashed in the running game.[/quote]

Plus he went into the game with only five DL active. Why on earth would you go into a game against a QB like Manning with only five D linemen? The point can be argued that Haynesworth may or may not have made a difference, but I maintain neither did the guys that did play make a difference. 179 yds. rushing is just unacceptable and brings into question the wisdom of anyone who says the team played well enough to win. No sacks, 479 yds total offense and a DL that looked as though they were playing hide and go seek for most of the game.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

Ok, with out reading my psychic abilities tell me the coaching staff is being slammed for not playing AH and if we had we would have gotten better pressure up the middle and won the game.

I too feel the same way, but how much do they tweek the defense each week? I wonder if like the offense there is set plays and players have to line up specific ways but depending on how they tweek it might mean which way the DL blocks?

Offensively I guess the team looks at film and looks for weaknesses and game plans around those weaknesses. Instead of Moss running a slant maybe this week it's Armstrong or Cooley. Maybe the team see's a weakness on the right side so they practice all week blocking to the right more so then the left. I presume the defense does the same thing, and if AH is not around to learn the play calls and what he's supposed to do on each play then all he's going to do is get in someone elses way or screw up.

I guess it would be better to have him on the bench until he can be there from Mon. when they start going over game film and game planning for the next opponant vs. having him show up mid week when the game plan is already set and they are doing a walk through and he has no clue as to what his responsibilities are.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Defensewins;749621]We agree to disagree, but when give up up 171 yards rushing on 28 carries for an average of 6.1 yards a carry, you are not going to win many games. Hurry offense or not.[/quote]

46 of that did come on one play. Just saying

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Longtimefan;749650][B]Plus he went into the game with only five DL active. Why on earth would you go into a game against a QB like Manning with only five D linemen?[/B] The point can be argued that Haynesworth may or may not have made a difference, but I maintain neither did the guys that did play make a difference. 179 yds. rushing is just unacceptable and brings into question the wisdom of anyone who says the team played well enough to win. No sacks, 479 yds total offense and a DL that looked as though they were playing hide and go seek for most of the game.[/quote]

Because perhaps the coaching staff felt Mannings pass ability was more important to stop vs. the run? cut back on the DL and throw in more CB's or safeties? I'm just guessing.

I did see a handful of plays where doughty and kareem moore were on the field together. Was landry out there too/do we run plays with three safeties sometimes?



Sent from my Android device using Tapatalk

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;749674]46 of that did come on one play. Just saying[/quote]

So that makes it ok?

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=takethecake;749683]I did see a handful of plays where doughty and kareem moore were on the field together. Was landry out there too/do we run plays with three safeties sometimes?



Sent from my Android device using Tapatalk[/quote]

Yeah RD was playing LB in dime packages.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[url=http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/10/17/albert-haynesworth-i-was-ready-to-play-against-colts/]Albert Haynesworth: I Was Ready to Play Against Colts -- NFL FanHouse[/url]

i dont know if this has been posted yet. Adds alil more insight to the AH deactivation. I do have sympathy for AH with regards to showing up to the team locker room on gameday and finding all your stuff packed away indicating your not playing while the other players stuff are neatly organized and laid out in their lockers.

I also feel for him in that he said, while cliche, that footbal is his escape and he was looking forward to playing. For Shanny, i think it was safe to assume that even a player like AH could have used footbal for him to get his recent trajedy out of his mind, at least for a few hours. Lots of players,almost all of them, say football is an escape when they confront real life drama. Shanny sure as hell knows this, even if shanny thought AH playing would hurt the team with not knowing the scheme, man, you stil find ways for the guy to suit up and atleast play some snaps.

i think shanny robbed AH of his right as football player to turn to the comforts of the gridiron with the recent and unexpected passing of his brother.

man, im a sentimental dude, shanny failed on the human side of things with this regard.

he should have talked with AH in closed doors and asks AH what he wanted to do, what AH needed from the team. If AH said he would like to play to help him get his mind off things, his wish should have been granted.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

I have a hard time believing after playing against the Peyton Manning and Jeff Saturday for twice a year, for seven years that Albert Haynesworth couldn't have a made a difference last night. He could have a made difference just on reflex knowledge alone; recognizing audibles, etc.

And the part about him not being conditioned enough is a bunch of hooey. If Trent Williams could miss most of practice and hobble his ass out there to start against Dwight Freeney, I don't see what's the difference with a healthy Haynesworth doing the same. Sure you don't have to play him the ENTIRE game, but you're telling me this guy isn't good for 10, 20 snaps last night? Not buying it.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

I know, I know but come on matty. Are you telling me that you wouldnt have called AH into your office, have haslett come in, close the door then ask AH if he wanted to play? The when he said he would like to play to help him escape from the off field stuff, you would still let him show up sunday expecting to play but find your stuff packed up? (idk if or when he was told he was not playing. the article makes it seem he wasnt told but figured it out when he showed up sunday)

Im just sayin, shanny knows that players want to play football in times of tragedy to help them get their mind of things.

from a human aspect, shanny failed.

you get my point thoo i think - players turn to the comforts of the gridiron to escape their mourning and thoughts, even players like AH. All things past taken into account, as a head coach you find a way to have him suited up atleast and active for a couple plays. you cant take away football from him at that point, football to these guys is the normal, it gets them back to what they know and love, the act on instinct not thinking about the off field trauma.

to my surprise i thought he would be indifferent - maybe he is but just gave the cliche sound bite and im the fish on the hook.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

^ Again I wonder how much of it was changes made to the blocking scheme which would not have worked had AH been out there? In other words it probably had nothing to do with AH's health or stanima but more the issue that AH wouldn't know which way to block or which gap to run through on certain plays.

Shanahan said they needed to see what type of football shape AH was in. That statement alone does not mean the coach's felt AH would be out of shape after just one week. It could refer to his mental status after having a loss, or if he could handle picking up the new plays for the week fast enough. There is no use putting him out there if he's a detriment.

As far as Trent goes I think he was around for the meetings so he would understand the plays being used and play calls. All he had to do was do a walk through mid week and play on Sun. Thats a lot different then AH being completely away from Redskins Park not sitting in any meetings and showing up on Wed/Thurs. for the walk through.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

I could really care less about Al's feelings. I'm guessing this was strictly a football related decision, and not about ego or some sort of personal vendetta that some fans think Shanahan has with him.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=SBXVII;749675]Because perhaps the coaching staff felt Mannings pass ability was more important to stop vs. the run? cut back on the DL and throw in more CB's or safeties? I'm just guessing.[/quote]


I agree that could have been a reason, but Manning is so efficient at his position that you have to "force" him into making mistakes. Chances are better at accomplishing that with pressure than with coverage simply because it's so difficult to confuse him with coverages. Last night we tried to confuse him and wound up confusing ourselves.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=over the mountain;749725]I know, I know but come on matty. Are you telling me that you wouldnt have called AH into your office, have haslett come in, close the door then ask AH if he wanted to play? The when he said he would like to play to help him escape from the off field stuff, you would still let him show up sunday expecting to play but find your stuff packed up? (idk if or when he was told he was not playing. [B]the article makes it seem he wasnt told but figured it out when he showed up sunday) [/B]

Im just sayin, shanny knows that players want to play football in times of tragedy to help them get their mind of things.

from a human aspect, shanny failed.

you get my point thoo i think - players turn to the comforts of the gridiron to escape their mourning and thoughts, even players like AH. All things past taken into account, as a head coach you find a way to have him suited up atleast and active for a couple plays. you cant take away football from him at that point, football to these guys is the normal, it gets them back to what they know and love, the act on instinct not thinking about the off field trauma.

to my surprise i thought he would be indifferent - maybe he is but just gave the cliche sound bite and im the fish on the hook.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure I heard or read that Shanahan said when asked about AH on Tues., after it was mentioned that AH would be back this week, that he was unsure if AH would be playing cause they needed to see if he was in football shape. So if it was announced mid week how on earth did AH not have a clue that he might not be playing?

Plus why is it all the coach's fault. Is AH not a man? can he not go to the DC and ask if to make sure if he would be playing considering he was gone for a week? See the problem with AH is in his mind because he makes so much money he's automatically the starter and he gets all upset when he learns otherwise. Heck the fans get upset when they learn otherwise.

If nothing else we fans should have learned by now that just because you the best at your position or make the most money does not equal that your the starter.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Longtimefan;749733]I agree that could have been a reason, but Manning is so efficient at his position that you have to "force" him into making mistakes. Chances are better at accomplishing that with pressure than with coverage simply because it's so difficult to confuse him with coverages.[B] Last night we tried to confuse him and wound up confusing ourselves.[/B][/quote]

I have a problem with that, simply because we had 4 clean shots at INTs, and got a strip fumble from him. That certainly says to me that the "plan" worked, it was the execution that failed. (channeling my inner zorn).

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

Some talk that Haynesworth was supposed to return on Wednesday but didn't show up until Thursday. Don't know if that's true

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Mattyk;749731]I could really care less about Al's feelings. I'm guessing this was strictly a football related decision, and not about ego or some sort of personal vendetta that some fans think Shanahan has with him.[/quote]

I also think this was purely football related, what is best for our team. Just a real cold football decision.

Unlike you I do care about AH's feelings with regards to this particular matter.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Longtimefan;749733]I agree that could have been a reason, but Manning is so efficient at his position that you have to "force" him into making mistakes. Chances are better at accomplishing that with pressure than with coverage simply because it's so difficult to confuse him with coverages. Last night we tried to confuse him and wound up confusing ourselves.[/quote]

I see your point, given time Payton will pick anyone apart so lets get a good rush on him and force mistakes. I understand.

The other way is to take away his biggest threat, his passing ability. It sounded like the run was not the Colts best attribute this year and the bigger threat was the pass. So take away the pass and he's left with a mediocre run. That alone should have helped. Problem was the Colts run game was better then we thought and Payton still found away to get his WR's the ball. Although it's not hard when the CB's are running down field not looking for the ball even after the WR turns to look for the ball. I'm so glad Hall said he had a bad day cause he is guilty of this many times over yesterday.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;749736]I have a problem with that, simply because we had 4 clean shots at INTs, and got a strip fumble from him. That certainly says to me that the "plan" worked, it was the execution that failed. (channeling my inner zorn).[/quote]

I also really don't think we confused ourselves. Yes it looks like our DL is confused and not sure where to line up and not getting into 3 point stances but I believe that was designed just for Manning. Make it look like we are confused, don't show what our plans are, hope he doesn't change the play call to suit his offense better, and fake the blitz periodically.

The problem is Payton is just so good at what he does. Then there was all the plays I felt the Colts offense held that were not called. But whatever.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=SBXVII;749735]I'm pretty sure [B]I heard or read that Shanahan said[/B] when asked about AH on Tues., after it was mentioned that AH would be back this week, that [B]he was unsure[/B] if AH would be playing cause they needed to see if he was in football shape. [B]So if it was announced mid week[/B] how on earth did AH not have a clue that he might not be playing?

Plus why is it all the coach's fault. Is AH not a man? can he not go to the DC and ask if to make sure if he would be playing considering he was gone for a week? See the problem with AH is in his mind because he makes so much money he's automatically the starter and he gets all upset when he learns otherwise. Heck the fans get upset when they learn otherwise.

If nothing else we fans should have learned by now that just because you the best at your position or make the most money does not equal that your the starter.[/quote]

I dont think Shanny saying on tues he is unsure if AH will play = a mid week announcement AH isnt playing.

But your point about him going to Haslett is taken, I wonder what communication Haslett had with AH and Shanny.

im not saying AH should have played b/c he makes the most money or that he is the best, i am a 100% AH hater. hes lazy, doesnt give a crap and just tried to take us for 32 mil over 13 months, when that didnt work b/c bend-me-over-vinny was gone, all this drama ensued.

my opinion is one based off a what would joe gibbs do?

Football players turn to football in a time of tragedy. AH wasnt given that option. Shanny failed in the human aspect of being a head coach with this particular case IMO.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

This was 7pm on Sat the 16th...

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?336292-Jay-Glazer-Skins-strongly-leaning-towards-deactivating-Haynesworth]Jay Glazer: Skins strongly leaning towards deactivating Haynesworth.[/url].

but I was sure Shanahan also addressed this issue mid week when asked by the media if AH would play when it was learned AH would be back mid week.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

Here is the direct quote from AH and MS.

[QUOTE]Haynesworth participated in the Redskins’ jog-through practice, which was moved to an airport hangar due to heavy rains in the Washington, D.C., area.

Head coach Mike Shanahan said that Haynesworth’s availability for this Sunday’s game against the Indianapolis Colts would be a “game time decision.”

“Anytime you’re away for six days, there’s a loss of conditioning obviously,” Shanahan said. “We’ll want to see where he’s at both physically and mentally. We understand what happened, and we understand the crisis that he was dealing with. Hopefully he can get back in shape.”
[/QUOTE]

That was written Oct. 14th. Even if the team had no plans to use him why tell him so he can go to the media and blab that he's mad he's not going to play? Then the Colts can game plan around that. No, let the player keep guessing cause it keeps the opponants guessing.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/News___Notes__Haynesworth_Rejoins_Redskins_163729.jsp]News & Notes: Haynesworth Rejoins Redskins[/url]

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

I find it very hard to believe AH didn't see it coming, or didn't have any sort of communication with the coaches throughout the week.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

I'm not gonna question whether Shanny was wrong or right to deactivate Haynesworth. I'm looking forward to playing Chicago, and barring injury or something unforeseen like a trade before tomorrow, Haynesworth will be ready to play and will be in the lineup, and hopefully for the rest of the season as well.

Why bother questioning who's wrong or right about it anymore? It's not gonna change the result of the Colts game. Let's just hope he's in the lineup against Chicago.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=Defensewins;749704]So that makes it ok?[/quote]

Not at all. Just saying that affected the YPC.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

Lively thread! :)

Bottom line: we have the worst defense in the league. That's doubly important because last year we were top 10 and arguably a piece or 2 from elite. Sooooo...anything and everything the FO and coaching staff has done w/ the defense is suspect. Everything!!! Shanny historically has struggled to pick winners on defense (coaches and players) AND he let's his ego/pride get in the way.

So far what I see are flashes out there. Trent. Torrain. Landry. Orakpo. But defensively it's hard to argue this regime has done anything but screw the pooch when you consider where we were just a year ago.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=The Goat;749855]Lively thread! :)

Bottom line: we have the worst defense in the league. That's doubly important because last year we were top 10 and arguably a piece or 2 from elite. Sooooo...anything and everything the FO and coaching staff has done w/ the defense is suspect. Everything!!! Shanny historically has struggled to pick winners on defense (coaches and players) AND he let's his ego/pride get in the way.

So far what I see are flashes out there. Trent. Torrain. Landry. Orakpo. But defensively it's hard to argue this regime has done anything but screw the pooch when you consider where we were just a year ago.[/quote]

Honestly, regardless of the defense we have, our offense is still not good enough to compliment whatever the defense can do. Even by giving up a ton of yards and dropping 4 (or 5) picks, the defense still gave our offense a lot of opportunities to win the game.

Ideally, I think last year's defense with the slightly improved offense of this year would be the ideal situation, but that's just wishful thinking.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=The Goat;749855]Lively thread! :)

Bottom line: we have the worst defense in the league. That's doubly important because last year we were top 10 and arguably a piece or 2 from elite. Sooooo...anything and everything the FO and coaching staff has done w/ the defense is suspect. Everything!!! Shanny historically has struggled to pick winners on defense (coaches and players) AND he let's his ego/pride get in the way.

So far what I see are flashes out there. Trent. Torrain. Landry. Orakpo. But defensively it's hard to argue this regime has done anything but screw the pooch when you consider where we were just a year ago.[/quote]I believe that we're only 2 players from being an elite D, even in the 3-4. Give Haslett a stud nose tackle and a playmaking LB to complement Orakpo, and we may be about there. Haynesworth could have been the first ingredient, but hasn't demonstrated a willingness to get with the program for the greater good. He can still be a strong contributor, but you can bet that Shanny will run him out of town before next season.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=SouperMeister;749858]I believe that we're only 2 players from being an elite D, even in the 3-4. Give Haslett a stud nose tackle and a playmaking LB to complement Orakpo, and we may be about there. Haynesworth could have been the first ingredient, but hasn't demonstrated a willingness to get with the program for the greater good. He can still be a strong contributor, but you can bet that Shanny will run him out of town before next season.[/quote]

Haslett's scheme, along w/ his history, is too suspect for me to agree here. I know Blache was boring defense, but you have to consider his units spent tons of time out there in large part because our offense has been so anemic the last few years. Given more rest Blache's D would have been more potent and probably generated a few more turnovers.

Honestly, Blache's scheme w/ Landry @ SS and a legit FS would have been scary.

Our D line is terribly weak w/o AH playing...sooo we're at least a couple/few players short right there. Then help at LB and FS. Compare that picture of 4 to 6 new talented players needed presently to just a player or 2 needed in the 4-3...

If the defense isn't back to top 10 or 5 next year I will have to say the regime effed up royally. As the zen master says...we'll see.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

[quote=SouperMeister;749858]I believe that we're only 2 players from being an elite D, even in the 3-4. Give Haslett a stud nose tackle and a playmaking LB to complement Orakpo, and we may be about there. Haynesworth could have been the first ingredient, but hasn't demonstrated a willingness to get with the program for the greater good. He can still be a strong contributor, but you can bet that Shanny will run him out of town before next season.[/quote]

Given the crazy formations that Haslett showed, the Redskins need a true NT. Not a pass rushing NT like Ratliff, but we need a massive 350+ lbs, true 3-4 NT, who's low to the ground and can just plug the hell out of the middle of the opponents offensive line.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

Anyone who thinks Blache would have lasted this year are kidding themselves. You think Blache would even bother to expand the playbook? They've got two years of film on him to look at what he runs. Hell, Kevin Gilbride always seemed to be one step ahead of him every stinking game. I remember when one time when Blache called an all out blitz and Gilbride had called a screen to Ward.

Re: Was Shanahan Wrong Deactivating Haynesworth vs. Indy
 

still, the bigger question to me, is why wasn't he on the sideline with the team? I don't get that part.