Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795662]Nothing is too far out with the redskins Lotus[/quote]

Two firsts and a third to get Gabbert? Sorry, too far out. I smell smoke.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=NC_Skins;795664]3 out of the 3 insiders I know of on other sites have all said this was accurate through various tweets/posts. My guess is Smoot has got the same intel as well, hence why he posted what he did prior.

I hope they are cranking up the huge smoke machine right before the draft.[/quote]

Oh sweet jebus I hope this is a massive smokescreen. I don't mind gabbert, but I don't want him at that cost...apparently Shanny and elway have been talking (I assume the trade would be with the broncos)...

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=Lotus;795659]That rumor is too far out to be believed.[/quote]

Not so far out, though I don't think we're going to move up to get Gabbert (but yes I've heard the rumors for a couple of days now)

If I were to make a somewhat educated guess at this point:

1. Panthers-Cam Newton
2. Broncos-Marcel Darreus
3. Texans-Patrick Peterson
4. Cincinnati-Julio Jones
5. Cardinals-Von Miller
6. Redskins-Jake Locker
7. Niners-Robert Quinn
8. Titans-Blaine Gabbert

I believe they're prepared to move up to get Locker (I think they have him ranked over Gabbert, but who knows for sure), because it's looking like they won't have to give up their 2nd round pick which was a major dealbreaker with previous trade possibilities

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=Lotus;795665]Two firsts and a third to get Gabbert? Sorry, too far out. I smell smoke.[/quote]

I hope like hell you are right about the smoke, but you got to remember that next years picks are a lot less valuable than the value at the current draft. Hence why it would take that much to move up.

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670]NFL draft-pick value chart - NFL - ESPN[/url]

#2 = 2600


#10 =1300


That's a difference of 1300 points to roughly make that jump. A next years 1st and 3rd would be what it would take to make that jump.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

This whole talk lately is crazy, i thought we wanted Quinn but now I'm almost certain we r taking a QB obviously JL or BG in the first round

Anyone have links to these tweets?

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795667]Not so far out, though I don't think we're going to move up to get Gabbert (but yes I've heard the rumors for a couple of days now)

If I were to make a somewhat educated guess at this point:

1. Panthers-Cam Newton
2. Broncos-Marcel Darreus
3. Texans-Patrick Peterson
4. Cincinnati-Julio Jones
5. Cardinals-Von Miller
6. Redskins-Jake Locker
7. Niners-Robert Quinn
8. Titans-Blaine Gabbert

I believe they're prepared to move up to get Locker (I think they have him ranked over Gabbert, but who knows for sure), because it's looking like they won't have to give up their 2nd round pick which was a major dealbreaker with previous trade possibilities[/quote]

Is the threat of the titans taking Locker that realistic? I assumed that was all a smokescreen...If that's what it takes to snatch up Locker, I'm fine with that. I've got Locker above Gabbert too.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

If they don't move up and neither guy is there look for Cam Jordan or JJ Watt to be the likely choices, with Quinn still a possibility

But, like I said, I'm not totally convinced the interest in moving up to get Gabbert is legit. But Locker interest seems to be.

It's time like this I miss Vinny...an open book. An empty book, but open nonetheless

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795675]If they don't move up and neither guy is there look for Cam Jordan or JJ Watt to be the likely choices, with Quinn still a possibility

But, like I said, I'm not totally convinced the interest in moving up to get Gabbert is legit. But Locker interest seems to be.

[B]It's time like this I miss Vinny...an open book. An empty book, but open nonetheless[/B][/quote]

That line made my day.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795667]Not so far out, though I don't think we're going to move up to get Gabbert (but yes I've heard the rumors for a couple of days now)

If I were to make a somewhat educated guess at this point:

1. Panthers-Cam Newton
2. Broncos-Marcel Darreus
3. Texans-Patrick Peterson
4. Cincinnati-Julio Jones
5. Cardinals-Von Miller
6. Redskins-Jake Locker
7. Niners-Robert Quinn
8. Titans-Blaine Gabbert

I believe they're prepared to move up to get Locker (I think they have him ranked over Gabbert, but who knows for sure), because it's looking like they won't have to give up their 2nd round pick which was a major dealbreaker with previous trade possibilities[/quote]


Lol, heck of a deal for the Browns. They trade down, pick up an extra pick and still get AJ Green. That's assuming of course that St. Louis doesn't trade up to 9 and grab him which would be extremely likely since the Cowboys like Tyron Smith but don't want to take him in the top 10. So on second thought bad deal for the Browns.

So lets see.

9. St. Louis (From Dallas) AJ Green - WR - Georgia
10. Cleveland - Nick Fairely - DT - Auburn

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

Cincy is going to take a QB right off and befuddle the whole 1st round.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795675][B]If they don't move up and neither guy is there look for Cam Jordan or JJ Watt to be the likely choices[/B], with Quinn still a possibility

But, like I said, I'm not totally convinced the interest in moving up to get Gabbert is legit. But Locker interest seems to be.

It's time like this I miss Vinny...an open book. An empty book, but open nonetheless[/quote]

Now we're talkin'...

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

That would be so frigging stupid to actually try and move up to get Locker. Even Billick has Ponder above Locker in his QB ratings. If we don't get Gabbert, Ponder, or Mallet, handed to us at #10, we go DE, DB, or WR. Locker is only a top 5 QB since it is a rather weak class. I am serious. You would be better off waiting a year even to get Dan Persa from Northwestern than Locker!!!!!!! Locker has to e the most overrated and most overhyped QB in recent memory. Only Joey Harrington comes to mind, but he looked like a god in college compared to Locker. The kid has nice feet, but a wobbly thrower and has a nasty tendency to throw INTS. Like Billick says, Ponder has taken more snaps than the rest of the top QBs in his class, has feet of his own and is a crisper passer than Jake. I am sorry guys, this post is almost like every other post I have made on Locker and our top pick, but to me it would be crazy to pick Locker at #10. Locker is a second rounder tops considering what needs we have. I say get Ponder or Mallet. Gabbert won't fall to us. If we could somehow nab Ponder in round #2 that would be a steal. I would see how Dan Persa does his senior year also. I know he is from NW, but the kid was very good with his feet, and a lot better statwise than Kafka. He could come in under the radar as a mid level pick.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

I just think there's no chance the Cardinals pass on Gabbert if they get a shot at him. And I know how much they love Von Miller as a perfect fit for their defense. I just think they are hoping to not trade up for Gabbert. And so "interest" in him has been low.

But god, I hope Gabbert is still there when the Redskins pick at ten.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=Longtimefan;795226]I hate this time of year! Every year at this time I sit around watching teams that already are more competitive than the Redskins with their full complement of draft picks, looking to upload while we're relegated to banking our hopes on low-end type players.

Depending on what happens in this draft, hopefully we can look foreward to having at least one pick in each of the seven rounds in 2012.[/quote]
~~~~~~
So agree! Years of poor management have caught up to us. It is frustrating. I would love it if the Skins finally figured it out but I am not sure they have or are really willing to.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=mbedner3420;795666]Oh sweet jebus I hope this is a massive smokescreen. I don't mind gabbert, but I don't want him at that cost...apparently Shanny and elway have been talking (I assume the trade would be with the broncos)...[/quote]


Gabbert is a great QB, but not worth trading up for. I would be very happy if we ended up with Ponder and get a good prospect QB next year in rounds 2-5.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;795695]Gabbert is a great QB, but not worth trading up for. I would be very happy if we ended up with Ponder and get a good prospect QB next year in rounds 2-5.[/quote]

I think the Ponder interest is basically non existent

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

If the Skins trade up, they will continue to prove how to use the draft to never win. These spread offense QBs are not worth the risk of trading up for.

Draft Cameron Jordon @ 10, or trade down and get 2nd tier QB or Ryan Kerrigan. Use extra picks for 3-4 style LB/DE while adding a few more picks to be used on DE/LB, CB, OL.

This team has many holes, and for once all positions of need should be filled with the draft first. Band aids can come later through free agency.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

^ the redskins are taking a QB my man it's just a fact. Idk if it's going to be at 2, 5 , 10? Either way we r taking a QB

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=drew54;795706]If the Skins trade up, they will continue to prove how to use the draft to never win. These spread offense QBs are not worth the risk of trading up for.

Draft Cameron Jordon @ 10, or trade down and get 2nd tier QB or Ryan Kerrigan. Use extra picks for 3-4 style LB/DE while adding a few more picks to be used on DE/LB, CB, OL.

This team has many holes, and for once all positions of need should be filled with the draft first. Band aids can come later through free agency.[/quote]

I don't see how spread offense is an impediment. I think it's been proven that it's not.

But I'll tell you why I don't want Gabbert. Because the only Missouri QB who should ever grace a Redskins uniform is Chase Daniel!! His numbers in college crush Gabbert's. Still pissed we let him go. I may just sue.

If we don't give up our 2nd, which it appears we won't have to I'm not opposed to trading up for a QB. I just hope that QB is Locker, not Sunshine.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

Lmao hey sunshine was a baller

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

LOL. Well if nothing else, we've already got a name for Gabbert here.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795711]I don't see how spread offense is an impediment. I think it's been proven that it's not.

But I'll tell you why I don't want Gabbert. Because the only Missouri QB who should ever grace a Redskins uniform is Chase Daniel!! His numbers in college crush Gabbert's. Still pissed we let him go. I may just sue.

[B]If we don't give up our 2nd, which it appears we won't have to[/B] I'm not opposed to trading up for a QB. I just hope that QB is Locker, not Sunshine.[/quote]

So how do we trade up without giving up our #2 pick? Next year's picks?

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

I am just anti QB @ 10 and pro Defense or trade down for more picks to acquire defense.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=Lotus;795716]So how do we trade up without giving up our #2 pick? Next year's picks?[/quote]

Yes word is a 1st and a 3rd in 2012

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

This has got to be BS.

Trade up?

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=30gut;795720]This has got to be BS.

Trade up?[/quote]

Idk it seems pretty legit from a few sources

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=Lotus;795716]So how do we trade up without giving up our #2 pick? Next year's picks?[/quote]

Yup.

I don't believe this is a smokescreen, but I also don't think we're going to trade up to get Gabbert. I think someone else will offer more, or the Broncos will just stay at #2 and choose from 3 great defensive options in Darreus, Miller, and Peterson.

I think, if we trade up, we may move up four or five spots for Locker. But that's just my opinion.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795719]Yes word is a 1st and a 3rd in 2012[/quote]

I've heard 1st and 4th, so there are certainly different options being thrown out

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795711]I don't see how spread offense is an impediment. I think it's been proven that it's not.

But I'll tell you why I don't want Gabbert. Because the only Missouri QB who should ever grace a Redskins uniform is Chase Daniel!! His numbers in college crush Gabbert's. Still pissed we let him go. I may just sue.

If we don't give up our 2nd, which it appears we won't have to I'm not opposed to trading up for a QB. I just hope that QB is Locker, not Sunshine.[/quote]Okay, I'll bite: whats the argument for Locker over Sunshine Gabbert?

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

@SS
A first and a forth sounds much better

As far as the QB I'm cool with either one (BG/JL)

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=GTripp0012;795724]Okay, I'll bite: whats the argument for Locker over Sunshine Gabbert?[/quote]

Argument for Locker over Gabbert: I'd say if the offense was being designed to suit Mikes version of the offense. With a heavy emphasis on play action and bootlegs. Also if you feel that Locker is the second coming of Steve Young and Gabbert is the second coming of....Carson Palmer then I'd say we'd be better off with Locker.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

To trade up and cast away next years picks would be the status quo. Nothing makes me hate this team more than the total disregard for the draft. Why can't they build teams the right way. Ever since I Casserly got the boot, there seems to be a hatred of draft picks.

This trade up idea sucks. I really used to hold high hopes for each draft but year after year of getting burned has ruined me. Just not worth debating anymore.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;795726]Argument for Locker over Gabbert: I'd say if the offense was being designed to suit Mikes version of the offense. With a heavy emphasis on play action and bootlegs. Also if you feel that Locker is the second coming of Steve Young and Gabbert is the second coming of....Carson Palmer then I'd say we'd be better off with Locker.[/quote]I don't think Locker is the next coming of Steve Young, exactly. But I see what you're saying.

I have no problem with Locker's play outside of the pocket. I just think Gabbert is better at that specific skill.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=GTripp0012;795724]Okay, I'll bite: whats the argument for Locker over Sunshine Gabbert?[/quote]

Because I said so. What more do you need to know?

See, this is why we're prepared to let you walk over to that Titans message board.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

what strikes me is that both Gabbert and Locker had big gaping holes in their respective teams. Gabbert had basically zero receiving threats, on the other hand Locker had very little help on his team period. I say this because I think both guys, if put in the right situation can have nice careers in the NFL. I just see Locker as fitting in better on our team.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=drew54;795727]To trade up and cast away next years picks would be the status quo. Nothing makes me hate this team more than the total disregard for the draft. Why can't they build teams the right way. Ever since I Casserly got the boot, there seems to be a hatred of draft picks.

This trade up idea sucks. I really used to hold high hopes for each draft but year after year of getting burned has ruined me. Just not worth debating anymore.[/quote]

Well, Beathard tended to move out of the first round and Bruce Allen's dad George never seemed to find a draft he liked.

But I totally get your point. I suspect though that part of insisting on keeping our 2nd round is to possibly use that to move down and get some more picks.

We're not going to mortgage our entire draft to move up. That I'm sure of...<<famous last words?..

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

Yes, not this year but morgage next year's 1 and 3. It is like the Brad Johnson/Jason Campbell/Donovan McNabb dump of draft picks for the future QB. Skins are pretty awful at this concept even with multiple coaches/GMs. But then again if you lose betting on red 3 times in a row in roulette, black has to stop coming up eventually, right? Damn forgot about green.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795723]I've heard 1st and 4th, so there are certainly different options being thrown out[/quote]

The first and fourth in addition to our 1st? Crazy!!!! Our 1st next year will probably be top 10 too. And luck is in the 2012 draft

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=GTripp0012;795724]Okay, I'll bite: whats the argument for Locker over Sunshine Gabbert?[/quote]*Long Post*
I'll bite, but will I get a response? ;)
I just had a similar discussion already in another thread.

When I look at Locker and Gabbert (after watching several games from each and charting 1 of each player's games) they're similar prospects except Locker is more athletic and more of a playmaker which is an important to trait to certain schools of thought.(see the sig)*

-Locker played under much more physical and mental duress week to week due to the talent disparity at Washington and his decision to return.


-Locker has performed under the pressure of essentially carrying a bad team.
For me knowing that Locker can handle those pressures and answer the bell when his team needs him most carries a lot of weight.

I'm not saying that Gabbert can't do what I talk about above but we know [I]know[/I] that Locker can because we've seen it.
Gabbert has been skittish at times and who knows how he will respond to playing on a team that is very well.........limited in regards to talent?



Here's how I sum up Gabbert:
very clean efficient throwing motion (to my eye the best in the draft), consistent mechanics, quick release, good accuracy escpecially in the short to intermediate passing game, decent throwing on the run, good arm strength along with some athleticism those are the franchise tools he brings to the table you can build an offense around that skillset especially his throwing consistency.

Locker: good clean motion, quick release, needs to improve on consistency, good accuracy to all levels of the field, elite throwing on the run, near elite arm strength, elite athleticism.

Another plus is that Locker played 2 years in a pro-style offense that ran plays with the same concepts as the Denver/Houston WCO and he has more experience operating under center in a rhythm based 3-5-7 step drop offense, making line-calls, audibles, site adjustments and pre-snap reads.



Now to everyones favorite 'knock' against Locker accuracy or ball placement.

Here's my take:The teams that value/drafts Locker won't/don't think he has 'accuracy issues' beyond those legitamtely caused by the 0-12 talent around him, specifically up front along the OL.





Here's roughly how I grade this class, keep in mind the average at the end doesn't actually equal the grade because different categories carry different weights.

[quote=30gut]Updated 4/6/11



QB Eval-----Acc------- Arm------Ath/Esc------Drop/Foot-----Exp---Play------- Prod/Eff-------Size----Throw----AVG



Dalton........3.5...........3..........3.25...............3.............3.5...3.5...............4............3..........5.......3.53



[COLOR="Orange"][B]Gabbert.......3...........4............3..................3..............3........3..............3............5.........5........3.5[/B][/COLOR]


J.Johnson.....3...........3.............4................3.5............3........4..............3.............4........2.5........3.3



Kaeprnick......3.........4.5...........4.................2.5............3........4..............4.............4..........2........3.4



[COLOR="orange"][B]Locker..........3...........4.5...........4.................4..............3.......5...............3............4..........5......3.94[/B][/COLOR]


Mallett..........4............5.............1.................5.............3.5.......1.............4............4...........4......3.5



Newton........3............5.............4.................2.5............1.5.......5.............5............5...........4......3.8



Ponder.........3............3...........3.................5..............4........3...............3..........4.25......3.5.......3.52



Stanzi.........3.25..........3............3.................5.............3.5.......3..............4...........4.5.......3......3.58



Ty Taylor........3............3............5................3.5..............4........5.............4............2.........3......3.61[/quote]

I think both QBs are scheme diverse.
I can see why Locker might be more tempting to Mike Shanahan because Elway himself said that Locker reminds him of well...himself.

But, as much as I like Locker and Gabbert as prospects I find it hard to believe that we should or need to trade up to No.2 to get them.

There are other good QB prospects in this draft and some good developmental prospects in the 3rd-4th rounds if we can't get a a tier 1 or 2 QB.

Re: Your final prediction for #10
 

[quote=30gut;795745]I'll bite, but will I get a response? ;)
I just had a similar discussion already in another thread.

When I look at Locker and Gabbert (after watching several games from each and charting 1 of each player's games) they're similar prospects except Locker is more athletic and more of a playmaker which is an important to trait to certain schools of thought.(see the sig)*

-Locker played under much more physical and mental duress week to week due to the talent disparity at Washington and his decision to return.


-Locker has performed under the pressure of essentially carrying a bad team.
For me knowing that Locker can handle those pressures and answer the bell when his team needs him most carries a lot of weight.

I'm not saying that Gabbert can't do what I talk about above but we know [I]know[/I] that Locker can because we've seen it.
Gabbert has been skittish at times and who knows how he will respond to playing on a team that is very well.........limited in regards to talent?



Here's how I sum up Gabbert:
very clean efficient throwing motion (to my eye the best in the draft), consistent mechanics, quick release, good accuracy escpecially in the short to intermediate passing game, decent throwing on the run, good arm strength along with some athleticism those are the franchise tools he brings to the table you can build an offense around that skillset especially his throwing consistency.

Locker: good clean motion, quick release, needs to improve on consistency, good accuracy to all levels of the field, elite throwing on the run, near elite arm strength, elite athleticism.

Another plus is that Locker played 2 years in a pro-style offense that ran plays with the same concepts as the Denver/Houston WCO and he has more experience operating under center in a rhythm based 3-5-7 step drop offense, making line-calls, audibles, site adjustments and pre-snap reads.



Now to everyones favorite 'knock' against Locker accuracy or ball placement.

Here's my take:The teams that value/drafts Locker won't/don't think he has 'accuracy issues' beyond those legitamtely caused by the 0-12 talent around him, specifically up front along the OL.





Here's roughly how I grade this class, keep in mind the average at the end doesn't actually equal the grade because different categories carry different weights.



I think both QBs are scheme diverse.
I can see why Locker might be more tempting to Mike Shanahan because Elway himself said that Locker reminds him of well...himself.

But, as much as I like Locker and Gabbert as prospects I find it hard to believe that we should or need to trade up to No.2 to get them.

There are other good QB prospects in this draft and some good developmental prospects in the 3rd-4th rounds if we can't get a a tier 1 or 2 QB.[/quote]If I can put your Locker argument in more objective terms, is it that: he's been starting for four years and through repetition we know that his mental and physical duress (specifically pass pressure) is more valuable because he's had to overcome more of it to be where he is. I certainly do not think Locker plays on a different level of mental and physical duress than Gabbert. That would draw a distinction where one does not exist. But he's been battling since 2007, which should not be overlooked.

I think you're right that we know what we're getting in Locker (character-wise). Ultimately, that's the knockout punch against him as a prospect (ability-wise), but it's still valuable to know that you're getting a good kid that has been through the worst of it in college and can handle the worst of what the NFL throws at him.

We're less certain of Gabbert as a prospect because we have seen less of him, I agree. But we also should be more certain that he can do it because Gabbert at his "worst" helped to build a 2010 season where Missou was in the Nat'l title picture for 2/3 of the regular season before taking a loss to OU, where as Locker at his best took a less than able team to roughly .500, and did most damage through individual key big plays against weaker competition whereas Gabbert was more consistent down to down and accomplished what he did not through highlights but through staying ahead of the opponent on first, second, and third down, the traits that will make him successful in the NFL.