Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Shanny has til the end of 2012 to show Snyder some progression. IF nothing improves in 2012 Snyder doesn't have much of a choice but to can them. Continuity is great, but as long as there is some positive growth going on, but continuity for continuity's sake is moronic. I just see Shanny and co as muddling through without any clue to at least patch up the ship. Is there indeed a Shanaplan?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=The Goat;853975]Problem w/ this assessment, aside from missing completely the big picture of a team that looks utterly uninspired and devoid of any real leadership, is that it ignores the practical reality every team has injury issues such as these. The Bills were playing they're 3rd or 4th string left tackle I believe and they mostly dominated our defensive front 7. On the other side our 2nd string left tackle looked like he could absolutely care less about the game today and the offensive line was totally dominated by a Bills defense [B][I][U]missing it's very best player.[/U][/I][/B]

Again, injuries are the excuse for the team that has no leadership or motivation. The other side of the coin (last year's Packers) is a roster smashed w/ injuries but still led to greatness.[/quote]

They were actually down their top 3 defensive players in this game. Their left tackle was recently their left guard, and it has been shuffled around the past 2 or 3 weeks. All that and we get no pressure, and cant stop the run to save our lives. The future looks very dim in DC, sorry to say. One has to ask the question......If this continues, Is Mike Shanahan the answer for this team? Has the game passed him by? [B]Is he still coaching because of his name?[/B]

and the final question I believe is the most relevant to the overall status of the team. I would hate to even fathom that like alot of free agents did in the past decade, coming here getting a huge payday based on prior exploits, only to perform substandard, or not perform at all, that the coach is also in that boat.
I dunno, but I dont sense any flow in the offense whatsoever. Its a mishmash of stretch plays and short passes that our receivers and qb cannot execute to save their lives.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Predictable!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

What's scary is that Zorn went 12-20 in two seasons. Shanahan has won 9 games here, but at this point, finding another 3 wins this seasons looks dicey at best.

There is a better than average chance that Shanny finishes his first two years with an identical OR WORSE record than Mr. Medium. And almost no chance that he finishes this season with a better two year coaching record here.

I continue to think we should have given Gggrilliamss a shot after Joe retired. At least a Greggg Williams coached squad would have some swagger.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I've always respected Mike Shanahan as a great head coach in the NFL. But in Denver he had Gary Kubiak. Now he has his son. But Kyle Shanahan has succeeded before in having a top 5 NFL offense.

So, it's either the personnel on the field, or the play selection. In the first couple of weeks before the bye week win the Redskins were playing better than they are now, they had a healthy Tim Hightower, Santana Moss, Kory Lichtengster, and Trent Williams, and let's not forget about Chris Cooley, who has been productive at TE all of his career. Without those five players, the Redskins virtually have no offense at all. It doesn't matter if John Beck or if Rex Grossman is the QB. It wouldn't matter of Joe Theismann or Mark Rypien was the QB, this team is playing with backups, reserves with little or no NFL playing experience. And they are not playing well right now.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Just as there are players who benefit from a certain system but, fail outside of that system, I believe coaches can be exposed the same way. This is what Kyle is going through right now. He was successful elsewhere having adequate talent. However, the talent is severely lacking here. The best coaches can adapt, at least until more help arrives...

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I never liked the Shannahans. I would rather have Bill Cowher as our coach or the offensive coordinator for Carolina.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;854061]I never liked the Shannahans. I would rather have Bill Cowher as our coach or the offensive coordinator for Carolina.[/quote]

We were never going to get Cowher. Nobody was able to get Cowher. And it looks like nobody else WILL be able to get Cowher because he's still on the Sunday pre-game show and appears to be having a good time.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Of course I am frustrated, but look Shanny walked into a team that was overage, over paid, lazy bums. He is coaching what he was given. He has overhauled this roster, with some players that are decent veteran players that will fill into roles for this team. I dont care who you are, you can't come into any team in the NFL and completely turn a roster and philosophy over in 2 years. If the fans and ownership would understand that by blowing everything up every 2 years is doing more long term hard than any good, we'd be a better franchise. I have said a million times, I will suffer through a couple of crappy seasons of rebuilding to get to the point where the Pats, Steelers, Eagles, Giants are. We have to have a few drafts like this past draft to really make this team into a winner.

As far as going with Rex or Beck instead of getting a QB, no idea. But the only QB we had the opportunity to really get was Gabbert if I recall correctly. Maybe the coaches weren't too high on him and felt there is a much better class of QB's coming out end of this year, which there are 5 or 6 QB's that are coming out that are pretty damn good.

I want Snyder to give this staff 4 years. Another couple of drafts and get the players in here that fit the system, get some quality depth and let them run it.

This staff has proven to win, its not like they come here and all of the sudden forget football or how to coach. Haslett has been sucessful as a D coordinator, Shanny (kyle) has been sucessful as an offensive coordinator (an offense that led the league 2 years in a row) and Mike who has won 2 superbowls, so I think they know what they are doing.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=#56fanatic;854070]Of course I am frustrated, but look Shanny walked into a team that was overage, over paid, lazy bums. He is coaching what he was given. He has overhauled this roster, with some players that are decent veteran players that will fill into roles for this team. I dont care who you are, you can't come into any team in the NFL and completely turn a roster and philosophy over in 2 years. If the fans and ownership would understand that by blowing everything up every 2 years is doing more long term hard than any good, we'd be a better franchise. I have said a million times, I will suffer through a couple of crappy seasons of rebuilding to get to the point where the Pats, Steelers, Eagles, Giants are. We have to have a few drafts like this past draft to really make this team into a winner.

As far as going with Rex or Beck instead of getting a QB, no idea. But the only QB we had the opportunity to really get was Gabbert if I recall correctly. Maybe the coaches weren't too high on him and felt there is a much better class of QB's coming out end of this year, which there are 5 or 6 QB's that are coming out that are pretty damn good.

I want Snyder to give this staff 4 years. Another couple of drafts and get the players in here that fit the system, get some quality depth and let them run it.

This staff has proven to win, its not like they come here and all of the sudden forget football or how to coach. Haslett has been sucessful as a D coordinator, Shanny (kyle) has been sucessful as an offensive coordinator (an offense that led the league 2 years in a row) and Mike who has won 2 superbowls, so I think they know what they are doing.[/quote]

Yep, Shanny came into a wasteland of an organization that had been bled dry of talent and draft picks for over a decade. He's not going to be able to fix that in a couple of years. I think at the end of 4 years Shanny will have the team just barely on the cusp of competing. Shanny has the team going in the right direction but its going to take a lot longer than anybody really wants it to take.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=irish;854072]Yep, Shanny came into a wasteland of an organization that had been bled dry of talent and draft picks for over a decade. He's not going to be able to fix that in a couple of years. I think at the end of 4 years Shanny will have the team just barely on the cusp of competing. Shanny has the team going in the right direction but its going to take a lot longer than anybody really wants it to take.[/quote]

Agreed, this is a 2014 project. As I stated in the 'Smackdown' thread, I think our overall roster is pathetic. Looking at our offensive and defensive depth charts, I only see 3 players on offense (Moss, Williams & Davis) and maybe 6 players on defense (Rak, Kerrigan, Cofield, Landry, Fletcher & Atogwe) that would be starters on good teams. That's 9 of 22. I can't think of a team with worse and less accomplished skill position players than we have. Then when any of the starters go down, beyond just having backups, we are playing backups who I feel would be challenged to make most NFL rosters at all. It spoke volumes about the state of our previous roster when most of the players we let go were not picked up by anyone, even recent starters such as Rabach, Dockery, Horton, Portis, etc. I can only think of 2 former 2010 Redskins starting elsewhere-Rogers and Reinhart. Anyone else?

I think it's impossible to judge our coaching staff fairly with what they are dealing with. Granted, Shanny has picked some of those players that wouldn't start anywhere else but that's more on him as a personnel guy.

For those wanting to can Kyle, I don't see the benefit in canning him. He needs to do a better job of game planning (his first two calls yesterday were weak and he gives up on the run quickly) but I think he needs some talent to work with.

On defense, Haslett is calling games for talent he doesn't have (same with Kyle really) and it's causing breakdowns. He hasn't seem to realize that you can't leave McIntosh in space, our corners struggle in off coverage, Rak needs counter moves or to be moved around, Kerrigan shouldn't be asked to cover and Landry needs to be playing more in the box.

Honestly, the only coach who I think is terrible is Danny Smith. When was the last time you remember the Redskins blocking a punt, going a stretch without a blocked FG or him actually developing a good player? Rocca has been a strength but he was good when he got here. Banks is one note. Sprint, cut to the sideline and hope for blocking. I don't see ANY coaching from that unit at all and it's been that way since he got here.

Preaching patience and stability. I hope Snyder doesn't cave to the pressure of media fueled zealots who want a quick trigger. Shanahan needs to be here for his entire contract. If there are moves made, hire a front office guy with personnel decision making power, spend money on scouts and commit to a program, long term.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Paintrain;854080]Agreed, this is a 2014 project. As I stated in the 'Smackdown' thread, I think our overall roster is pathetic. Looking at our offensive and defensive depth charts, I only see 3 players on offense (Moss, Williams & Davis) and maybe 6 players on defense (Rak, Kerrigan, Cofield, Landry, Fletcher & Atogwe) that would be starters on good teams. That's 9 of 22. I can't think of a team with worse and less accomplished skill position players than we have. Then when any of the starters go down, beyond just having backups, we are playing backups who I feel would be challenged to make most NFL rosters at all. It spoke volumes about the state of our previous roster when most of the players we let go were not picked up by anyone, even recent starters such as Rabach, Dockery, Horton, Portis, etc. I can only think of 2 former 2010 Redskins starting elsewhere-Rogers and Reinhart. Anyone else?

I think it's impossible to judge our coaching staff fairly with what they are dealing with. Granted, Shanny has picked some of those players that wouldn't start anywhere else but that's more on him as a personnel guy.

For those wanting to can Kyle, I don't see the benefit in canning him. He needs to do a better job of game planning (his first two calls yesterday were weak and he gives up on the run quickly) but I think he needs some talent to work with.

On defense, Haslett is calling games for talent he doesn't have (same with Kyle really) and it's causing breakdowns. He hasn't seem to realize that you can't leave McIntosh in space, our corners struggle in off coverage, Rak needs counter moves or to be moved around, Kerrigan shouldn't be asked to cover and Landry needs to be playing more in the box.

Honestly, the only coach who I think is terrible is Danny Smith. When was the last time you remember the Redskins blocking a punt, going a stretch without a blocked FG or him actually developing a good player? Rocca has been a strength but he was good when he got here. Banks is one note. Sprint, cut to the sideline and hope for blocking. I don't see ANY coaching from that unit at all and it's been that way since he got here.

Preaching patience and stability. I hope Snyder doesn't cave to the pressure of media fueled zealots who want a quick trigger. Shanahan needs to be here for his entire contract. If there are moves made, hire a front office guy with personnel decision making power, spend money on scouts and commit to a program, long term.[/quote]

Redskins special teams arent very special thats for sure.

I think a big reason the coaches are running their O & D even though they dont have the talent to make them work is to better identify where the talent short-comings really are; and to make those schemes SOP for the organization so that when the talent does get here the system has been in place for awhile.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I don't agree with anything positive being said about Kyle.
He's never coached a team into the playoffs and he's still wet behind the ears as far as I'm concerned.
He's been riding on his fathers coat tails.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;854086]I don't agree with anything positive being said about Kyle.
He's never coached a team into the playoffs and he's still wet behind the ears as far as I'm concerned.
He's been riding on his fathers coat tails.[/quote]

Kyle should be fired after the season cause he's shown that he can't make adjustments.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;854104]Kyle should be fired after the season cause he's shown that he can't make adjustments.[/quote]

I agree after i just loooked at the box score:

12 Rushes 26 Yards

WWWWWWWWWWW
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
?????????????????????

And the skins were only down in the forth??

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I still maintain that people are unfairly harsh on Kyle becaue of his last name. He hasn't been riding his father's coattails. He'll prove a lot of people here wrong before you know it

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;854111]I still maintain that people are unfairly harsh on Kyle becaue of his last name. He hasn't been riding his father's coattails. He'll prove a lot of people here wrong before you know it[/quote]

I tend to agree, our problem is talent more than coaching. But at the same time Mike & Kyle have to shoulder the blame for thinking they could be competitive with Rex and Beck at QB.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

My expectation is the offense should be getting better. Its going in the other direction. Kyle has to be held accountable at some point.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;854114]I tend to agree, our problem is talent more than coaching. [B]But at the same time Mike & Kyle have to shoulder the blame[/B] for thinking they could be competitive with Rex and Beck at QB.[/quote]

Bingo. This is my biggest gripe. I am not saying that MS and KS should be fired, that's ridiculous. But they need to shoulder the blame for this mess. Fans love to focus on just the players when things go bad, yet they forget that the coaches have a part in it too. I don't expect many wins from this team given the lack of talent and the injuries, but I would hope that they go down swinging.

Look at what "lesser" teams did yesterday. The Dolphins put up a fight against the Giants, so did the Cards against the Ravens. And out of nowhere, the Rams who were left for dead, stunned the Saints with their back up QB at the helm. If we are going to lose, I'd like for us to at least be competitive and not to lay down in front of teams like we did yesterday.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;854111]I still maintain that people are unfairly harsh on Kyle becaue of his last name. He hasn't been riding his father's coattails. He'll prove a lot of people here wrong before you know it[/quote]

Right.
And Yellowstone is supposed to become a super volcano one day too.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Have Mike and Kyle not been shouldering any of the blame?

And I just don't get how people are like "Well Kyle's only good when he has a good QB" Well then get him a good QB! What's the logic behind firing him? And then what you go and draft a franchise QB next year...and then we're all like "Man, imagine if Kyle Shanahan was working with this QB right now?"

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Loss falls squarely on coaching. I have heard a couple common suggestions why they shouldn't be judged harshly but none are valid IMO.

1) Redskins are a team rebuilding and were not projected to do well: I say bull. The Bills were projected to be garbage as well.

2)Injuries have taken their toll: Bills are on their 3rd left tackle. You would think our ends would have had a field-day. Also they have Chad Rinehart starting. Enough said.

3)Our WRs are terrible: All of the Bills receivers, from my understanding are undrafted nobodies. Stevie Johnson being the exception drafted in the 7th round. The same round Ryan Fitzpatrick was drafted in.

4)Our RBs are not good: Fred Jackson was a nobody until this year too.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Just like any major organization the buck stops with leadership. That is the FO and coaching.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;854124]Have Mike and Kyle not been shouldering any of the blame?

And I just don't get how people are like "Well Kyle's only good when he has a good QB" Well then get him a good QB! What's the logic behind firing him? And then what you go and draft a franchise QB next year...and then we're all like "Man, imagine if Kyle Shanahan was working with this QB right now?"[/quote]

Well the fans seem to just want to blame the players for everything that goes wrong (even when the team was winning).

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=hooskins;854129]Loss falls squarely on coaching. I have heard a couple common suggestions why they shouldn't be judged harshly but none are valid IMO.

1) Redskins are a team rebuilding and were not projected to do well: I say bull. The Bills were projected to be garbage as well.

2)Injuries have taken their toll: Bills are on their 3rd left tackle. You would think our ends would have had a field-day. Also they have Chad Rinehart starting. Enough said.

3)Our WRs are terrible: All of the Bills receivers, from my understanding are undrafted nobodies. Stevie Johnson being the exception drafted in the 7th round. The same round Ryan Fitzpatrick was drafted in.

4)Our RBs are not good: Fred Jackson was a nobody until this year too.[/quote]

1. Not by me and Tripp they weren't
2. Fair enough
3. Our WRs need to get the ball thrown to them more. Won't happen until we get a solid QB I suppose (put Rex back in!....*runs and hides*)
4. Shoot, Jackson's been on my fantasy football team for three years running (no pun intended) now

Blame goes all around

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I don't think anyone really thought the Bills would be this good, but garbage? I thought they had .500 potential coming into this season.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;854114] But at the same time Mike & Kyle have to shoulder the blame for thinking they could be competitive with Rex and Beck at QB.[/quote]


What the hell did you expect Mike to say in the off-season?



Yeah guys, we are going with two scrub QBs this season because there is absolutely nothing available to us on the open market or draft I deem worthy at our drafting spot?


I'm not sure why people read so much into a coach's statements or sometimes don't read enough. You have to know when he's lying his ass off (as in the case with Rex/Beck being legit) and when he's giving you code messages. (it's going to take time, but we will be competitive)

Translations: Our QBs suck and we are rebuilding.

However, I doubt you have many coaches who'll say that. In fact, probably none.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;854114]I tend to agree, our problem is talent more than coaching. But at the same time Mike & Kyle have to shoulder the blame for thinking they could be competitive with Rex and Beck at QB.[/quote]

I agree that it's talent more than coaching too. I'm sure they are aware that Beck/Grossman aren't top tier players. I mean KS has been around Matt Schaub a couple years, he knows what a good QB looks like, same w/ MS obviously. We've got other major concerns, such as depth which they are aware of too and that's why we took so many players in this last draft.

I got a faith in the current administration. The last administration not so much.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=hooskins;854129]1) Redskins are a team rebuilding and were not projected to do well: I say bull. The Bills were projected to be garbage as well. [/quote]


Well, Smoot and Tripp both called the Bills the surprise team, but I no doubt had them in the Luck Sweepstakes.


Bengals
Dolphins
Bills
Panthers
Colts (after Manning's injury)


These are the teams I had pegged as the worst in the league. The Panthers are playing much better than their record to say the least.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;854114]I tend to agree,[B] our problem is talent more than coaching[/B]. But at the same time Mike & Kyle have to shoulder the blame for thinking they could be competitive with Rex and Beck at QB.[/quote]

Not too sure I can agree with you after yesterday. Buffalo is not a more talented team then we are. They're just better coached.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;854145]What the hell did you expect Mike to say in the off-season?



Yeah guys, we are going with two scrub QBs this season because there is absolutely nothing available to us on the open market or draft I deem worthy at our drafting spot?


I'm not sure why people read so much into a coach's statements or sometimes don't read enough. You have to know when he's lying his ass off (as in the case with Rex/Beck being legit) and when he's giving you code messages. (it's going to take time, but we will be competitive)

Translations: Our QBs suck and we are rebuilding.

However, I doubt you have many coaches who'll say that. In fact, probably none.[/quote]

Well, they did choose to pass over some viable free agents. I have a hard time believing someone like Matt Hasselbeck couldn't have come in and done a better job than what we've seen from Rex & Beck.

We've now seen 2 years in a row where they have failed big time in regard to QB decisions here.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I think Kyle gets way too much credit for the Texans offense. My understanding is that it is Gary Kubiak's offense and KS was just a playcaller.

I don't remember there being too much anguish on Texans message boards when he came here, in fact quite a few posters were glad to see the back of him.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;854148]Not too sure I can agree with you after yesterday. Buffalo is not a more talented team then we are. They're just better coached.[/quote]

They have a lot of guys I'd take over ours, at least on offense. Jackson is the real deal and while no superstar Fitz is a 2nd tier type of QB who fits well in what they do. They have a bunch of no-names at WR, but they get the job done.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;854152]They have a lot of guys I'd take over ours, at least on offense. Jackson is the real deal and while no superstar Fitz is a 2nd tier type of QB who fits well in what they do. They have a bunch of no-names at WR, but they get the job done.[/quote]

They have a lot of no names, including Chad Rinehart.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I thought it was 3 to 4 weeks ago this was a team going to the SB? lol. Not really but you know what I mean. The OL is decimated. In one game our OL went to hell and a hand basket. I still feel the OL was targeted purposefully because thats what was holding the glue together. With out a decent OL you see what we have. All the other NFCE teams have had their share of OL problems but us up until the Eagles game.

I can't prove it. but I can say I still feel like Andy Reid purposefully had our OL targeted in order to benifit his outcome of the game.

Beyond that, our QB's are not top tier talented QB's. They are #2's at best. Backups. But as some others have said the offseason target was defense. Just look at it... DE/LB in the 1st round, NT in the 2nd round. Hopefully this next offseason the team focuses on QB, OL, CB, and WR. Preferably a QB in round 1.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SBXVII;854156]I thought it was 3 to 4 weeks ago this was a team going to the SB? lol. Not really but you know what I mean. The OL is decimated. In one game our OL went to hell and a hand basket. I still feel the OL was targeted purposefully because thats what was holding the glue together. With out a decent OL you see what we have. All the other NFCE teams have had their share of OL problems but us up until the Eagles game.

[B]I can't prove it. but I can say I still feel like Andy Reid purposefully had our OL targeted in order to benifit his outcome of the game. [/B]

Beyond that, our QB's are not top tier talented QB's. They are #2's at best. Backups. But as some others have said the offseason target was defense. Just look at it... DE/LB in the 1st round, NT in the 2nd round. Hopefully this next offseason the team focuses on QB, OL, CB, and WR. Preferably a QB in round 1.[/quote]

Well the Eagles cheap shotted Kory L. so you are correct there.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;854162]Well the Eagles cheap shotted Kory L. so you are correct there.[/quote]

Yeah but did Reid put them up to that?

I seriously doubt it.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

LMAO! Cheapshoting this team would be a waste of time and effort. It really looks like other teams have to go out of their way kick the skins ass.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I don't hate Kyle for his last name. I just think he has done poorly in leading the offense.

We don't have a real QB. Kyle should have known this months ago. Yet Kyle insists on having our QB's win our games. He puts the offense on the shoulders of our QB's, not on the running game. And with Rex and Beck that is not sensible.

What we could be doing is reverting to old-school football: reliance on a solid running game and a solid defense to keep us in games. Would we win the Super Bowl this way? Probably not, not without a passing attack. But we would win a bunch of games and be a better team than we are now.

A lack of a real QB is an excuse for Kyle that only goes so far. A good coordinator finds a way to adapt and Kyle does not seem to do this well.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Problem is we can't run the ball effectively right now either. The injuries on the OL have really hurt.