Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;869200]Sam Bradford has all the tools to become a great NFL QB, Colt may not suck (I hate texas lol) But he's small and has an avg arm on top of that he isn't very accurate, Bradford had a good rookie year but that team is just trash around him just wait until he actually gets some help. As for Sanchez I just see too much Rex Grossman in him, makes very poor decisions in to many games and always holds on to the ball way too long in the pocket. NTM his career numbers are very very AVG with a lot of talent around him.

SANCHEZ - 52 TDS 46 INTS 28 FUMBLES

Career rating - 74

No thanks[/quote]Bradford was dealing with an ankle sprain and was struggling to get the ball to his running back at the line of scrimmage last time we saw him. Those aren't tools, those are liabilities.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=celts32;869222]Not happy...I want to be the one making that trade with jax to get RG3.[/quote]

I think if we're not in the top 5 then we're likely to trade down and get one of the supposed 2nd tier QBs and add picks. But that's just my guess

If we are in the top 5 I'm still not totally convinced we're taking one of the big 3 at QB

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869228]I think if we're not in the top 5 then we're likely to trade down and get one of the supposed 2nd tier QBs and add picks. But that's just my guess

If we are in the top 5 I'm still not totally convinced we're taking one of the big 3 at QB[/quote]

That kinda makes me sad.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;869223]Bradford was dealing with an ankle sprain and was struggling to get the ball to his running back at the line of scrimmage last time we saw him. Those aren't tools, those are liabilities.[/quote]


LOL ok well again we'll see

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

Is it too much to ask for my skins to draft a ****ing QB in the top 10?

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869228]I think if we're not in the top 5 then we're likely to trade down and get one of the supposed 2nd tier QBs and add picks. But that's just my guess

If we are in the top 5 I'm still not totally convinced we're taking one of the big 3 at QB[/quote]

I agree with you that if the skins are not in the top 5 and the big 3 QB's are gone that they would trade down, that makes the most sense. Now if they are in top 5 and one of the big 3 is there, I would pounce on any of them, whoever is available. Here's another scenario, how about if the big 3 are gone and Kalil falls in our laps? I would pick Kalil and trade Williams (don't trust him).

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869228]I think if we're not in the top 5 then we're likely to trade down and get one of the supposed 2nd tier QBs and add picks. But that's just my guess

[B]If we are in the top 5 I'm still not totally convinced we're taking one of the big 3 at QB[/B][/quote]

Unless we address the QB position via trade or FA prior to the draft, I cannot see anything short of the big 3 at QB being our pick otherwise there will be an all out revolt among the fan base. While Shanny doesn't just do things based on that, he'd be foolish to expect otherwise.. I think we're at the crucial point where we have to make a bold move to secure the future at that position.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;869239]I agree with you that if the skins are not in the top 5 and the big 3 QB's are gone that they would trade down, that makes the most sense. Now if they are in top 5 and one of the big 3 is there, I would pounce on any of them, whoever is available. Here's another scenario, how about if the big 3 are gone and Kalil falls in our laps? I would pick Kalil and trade Williams (don't trust him).[/quote]


How about draft Kalil and move him or TW to RT and have the best Tackle duo in the NFL? Honestly QB is the way to go no doubt and if not I'd trade down and draft BPA then

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Paintrain;869241]Unless we address the QB position via trade or FA prior to the draft, I cannot see anything short of the big 3 at QB being our pick otherwise there will be an all out revolt among the fan base. While Shanny doesn't just do things based on that, he'd be foolish to expect otherwise.. I think we're at the crucial point where we have to make a bold move to secure the future at that position.[/quote]

Well I did bring up Colt McCoy several weeks back but I don't think he's necessarily coming here. He's just someone that could be available.

A lot of people talk about Flynn and Hoyer. I think the Seahawks are going to go hard after Flynn and Hoyer stays in NE.

There is someone else rumored, but I'll keep that name under wraps and regardless he wouldn't deter the Redskins from drafting a QB

And as for the QB, the big 3 we all know of isn't necessarily the Redskins big 3. Of course, whether some guys even come out will make a huge difference

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

Just food for thought, the Eli Manning deal years ago was swapping 1st round picks (1 & 4), a third in that draft plus 1st and 5th in the following year's draft.

When Cutler came out, the Broncos gave up a third to move up 4 spots from 15 to 11.

For Sanchez, the Jets gave up their 1st and 2nd plus three players to move from 17 to 5.

The Falcons this year gave up their 1st, 2nd and 4th plus 2011 1st and 4th round picks but they moved up 23 spots to get Julio Jones.

If we end up outside of the top 10 and want to get into the top 5, we will probably have to swap picks, plus at least a 3 this year and a 2 next year. I don't think it will cost two first round picks to move up if we are in the top 10 already unless we are trying to get to #1 from St. Louis to get Luck.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

Good article:
[url=http://washingtonexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/12/rick-snider-heres-deal-way-draft-qb-trade/2017911#ixzz1h698Js6M]Rick Snider: Here's the deal: The way for Redskins to draft a QB is via trade | Rick Snider | NFL | Washington Examiner[/url]

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;869250]Good article:
[url=http://washingtonexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/12/rick-snider-heres-deal-way-draft-qb-trade/2017911#ixzz1h698Js6M]Rick Snider: Here's the deal: The way for Redskins to draft a QB is via trade | Rick Snider | NFL | Washington Examiner[/url][/quote]

Except for his moronic notion that the price starts at 3 first round picks which would be historically high. He's a terrible columnist.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Paintrain;869249]Just food for thought, the Eli Manning deal years ago was swapping 1st round picks (1 & 4), a third in that draft plus 1st and 5th in the following year's draft.

When Cutler came out, the Broncos gave up a third to move up 4 spots from 15 to 11.

For Sanchez, the Jets gave up their 1st and 2nd plus three players to move from 17 to 5.

The Falcons this year gave up their 1st, 2nd and 4th plus 2011 1st and 4th round picks but they moved up 23 spots to get Julio Jones.

If we end up outside of the top 10 and want to get into the top 5, we will probably have to swap picks, plus at least a 3 this year and a 2 next year. I don't think it will cost two first round picks to move up if we are in the top 10 already unless we are trying to get to #1 from St. Louis to get Luck.[/quote]

The Broncos made multiple trades to move up from 29 to 22 to 15 to finally 11.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869253]The Broncos made multiple trades to move up from 29 to 22 to 15 to finally 11.[/quote]

Do you know the sum total of what they gave up? I was trying to establish some realistic expectations of moving 7-10 spots into the top 5 by showing what other teams recently paid to move. Some of the speculation is ridiculous.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Paintrain;869257]Do you know the sum total of what they gave up? I was trying to establish some realistic expectations of moving 7-10 spots into the top 5 by showing what other teams recently paid to move. Some of the speculation is ridiculous.[/quote]

Um. Let's see

2005: Traded 1st round pick to Redskins for 2005 3rd, 2006 1st, 2006 4th

2006: Traded 1st round pick (#29) to Falcons for 2006 1st (#15), 2006 3rd, and 2007 4th

(the #22 pick was part of a separate trade with SF)

2006: Traded #15 to Rams for #11, and 2006 3rd

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

all the speculation is driving me crazy, i literally find myself looking at mock drafts and forums every single day, BUT nobody knows what is going to happen and i hate it!! all i want for christmas is 2 redskin close losses and a late gift in april with RG3 in burgundy and gold.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Paintrain;869252]Except for his moronic notion that the price starts at 3 first round picks which would be historically high. He's a terrible columnist.[/quote]

3 first round picks? LOL Better get Luck for that price

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Paintrain;869252]Except for his moronic notion that the price starts at 3 first round picks which would be historically high. He's a terrible columnist.[/quote]

Where did he say that?

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Paintrain;869241]Unless we address the QB position via trade or FA prior to the draft, I cannot see anything short of the big 3 at QB being our pick otherwise there will be an all out revolt among the fan base. While Shanny doesn't just do things based on that, he'd be foolish to expect otherwise.. I think we're at the crucial point where we have to make a bold move to secure the future at that position.[/quote]

It's fun to predict and guess as a fan base. We do desperately need a QB, but there are many things that happen on draft day that we're not privy to. Maybe they like two guys and try to trade up but the price tag is too high. I don't want them to leverage our future, necessarily, just to get their guy. I hope the majority of Skins fans understand this. It's kind of funny, I can see this playing a couple ways.

1. Skins throw away / over pay for Luck/Griffin as usual.
2. Skins have a crappy draft b/c they don't get Luck / Griffin.

I guess I'm trying to say sh** happens and while I'd like to walk away w/ Luck/Griffin/or other we need to continue to draft good players. I trust them and expect them to be smart about it.

I know you know this, but while i'd be disappointed I'd be happy with another good draft. While Grossman is not our long term answer, he may be our answer next year.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869268]Where did he say that?[/quote]

2nd to last paragraph..

"St. Louis probably will open the bidding at three first-rounders for their pick. Two firsts and a second over three years, maybe. Including a player would be difficult for the Redskins, who don't have much to offer other than linebackers Brian Orakpo and Ryan Kerrigan and they're not expendable. Maybe Roy Helu, but the Rams have a running back."

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Paintrain;869272]2nd to last paragraph..

"St. Louis probably will open the bidding at three first-rounders for their pick. Two firsts and a second over three years, maybe. Including a player would be difficult for the Redskins, who don't have much to offer other than linebackers Brian Orakpo and Ryan Kerrigan and they're not expendable. Maybe Roy Helu, but the Rams have a running back."[/quote]


First of all thats IDIOTIC to even say 3 first round picks for the 2nd pick.
2nd of all the Rams don't really have a RB because JAX is old as **** and is never healthy..

Does this guy watch the NFL?

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Paintrain;869272]2nd to last paragraph..

"St. Louis probably will open the bidding at three first-rounders for their pick. Two firsts and a second over three years, maybe. Including a player would be difficult for the Redskins, who don't have much to offer other than linebackers Brian Orakpo and Ryan Kerrigan and they're not expendable. Maybe Roy Helu, but the Rams have a running back."[/quote]

Oh Didn't read that far down

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

I say that If we wanted to move up to number 2, from 8, it would cost our number one, our number 2 and next years number one. I would be OK with it if it lands us a potentially great QB. I see Barkley as the best fit for Shannahan's offense, but I would be satisfied with Luck, or RG3. With that said, I don't like any of the other QB's out there in the first round. Tannhil Hill has a long way to go and Landry Jones just seems not to have the "IT" factor. The fact that they take Landry Jones out of the game inside the ten yard line really bothers me. I think that Barkley comes in and wins with our offense immediately. Luck probably does the same. Rg3 will have to learn a new pro style offense and may have some growing pains year one, but he is [B]super smart[/B] and probably has the highest ceiling.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;869275]I say that If we wanted to move up to number 2, from 8, it would cost our number one, our number 2 and next years number one. I would be OK with it if it lands us a potentially great QB. I see Barkley as the best fit for Shannahan's offense, but I would be satisfied with Luck, or RG3. With that said, I don't like any of the other QB's out there in the first round. Tannhil Hill has a long way to go and Landry Jones just seems not to have the "IT" factor. The fact that they take Landry Jones out of the game inside the ten yard line really bothers me. I think that Barkley comes in and wins with our offense immediately. Luck probably does the same. Rg3 will have to learn a new pro style offense and may have some growing pains year one, but he is [B]super smart[/B] and probably has the highest ceiling.[/quote]

I like that, SuperSmart.

It's going to be a tough call if thats the price. St Louis would feel pretty good to slip 6 spots and get a 2nd this year and a 1st next year. If it's Luck, I'd say go for it. I don't know as much about RGIII but you'd have to consider it. Tough call. We're still very much a rebuilding team and need draft picks....high draft picks.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Paintrain;869272]2nd to last paragraph..

"St. Louis probably will open the bidding at[I][B] three first-rounders for their pick. Two firsts and a second over three years[/B][/I], maybe. Including a player would be difficult for the Redskins, who don't have much to offer other than linebackers Brian Orakpo and Ryan Kerrigan and they're not expendable. Maybe Roy Helu, but the Rams have a running back."[/quote]


It is misleading/confusing he says 3 first rounders then 2 first and second. So which is it?

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=skinsguy;868274]One thing I have learned by watching the NFL for the past 30+ years, never say never. Never thought the 49ers would let Montana walk, but they did. Never thought the 'skins would bench John Riggins for George Rogers, but they did. [B]If Houston makes a deep run in the playoffs with Yates, it could definitely happen[/B]. Now, is it likely Houston makes a deep run in the playoffs? That's really the question. I haven't really sat down and watched any Texans games other than the parts I see on the Redzone, but the kid keeps leading Houston to wins.

In my opinion, if the 'skins HAD to go the free agency route or the trade route for a vet QB, Schaub would be the best fit. Now really, it's more likely the Redskins draft a QB, I know this. But, there is always a better than outside chance that this scenario happens IF AND ONLY IF, Houston makes a deep run in the playoffs - and especially if they happen to make the Super Bowl. If the latter happened, consider Matt Schaub gone from Houston.[/quote]

like Brady replacing Bledsoe

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

If we were to do something stupid and not take a QB in the first, I like Foles and then Tannhill, in the second.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;869034]Bottom line, Shanahan's numbers may not reflect a sea change in the way this organization is being run but, I would suggest, the way this team is playing at the end of a second losing season does.[/quote]I also want to point out, and not to distract too much from a thread about QBs, that Edwin Williams and Chad Rinehart have both been pretty fantastic as injury replacements in Chicago and Buffalo. I thought both showed more here than Maurice Hurt and Willie Smith have in limited time.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

In order to grab the price sometimes you to give up something valuable. I would consider throwing in Williams plus the 1st and sign and trade Davis along. I'm Leary of those 2, coming out of college the drug rumors surrounded both, yet they both laughed at the policy instead of being smart. Not only that, but 3 failed drug tests, what does the future hold for them. The skins have proved that they can play without them, hell throw Landry while you are it :)

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;869287][B]In order to grab the price sometimes you to give up something valuable.[/B] I would consider throwing in Williams plus the 1st and sign and trade Davis along. I'm Leary of those 2, coming out of college the drug rumors surrounded both, yet they both laughed at the policy instead of being smart. Not only that, but 3 failed drug tests, what does the future hold for them. The skins have proved that they can play without them, hell throw Landry while you are it :)[/quote]

The only valuable assets this team has, besides our draft picks, are Orakpo and Kerrigan. Outside of that, I don't see any other player having significant trade value.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

Skins aren't trading TW SF, No chance.. He's a bigtime talent and I think he'll put the weed down

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;869288]The only valuable assets this team has, besides our draft picks, are Orakpo and Kerrigan. Outside of that, I don't see any other player having significant trade value.[/quote]
Man, I think you are right.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;869200]Sam Bradford has all the tools to become a great NFL QB, Colt may not suck (I hate texas lol) But he's small and has an avg arm on top of that he isn't very accurate, Bradford had a good rookie year but that team is just trash around him just wait until he actually gets some help.[/quote]When a prospect gets to the NFL he ceases being judged by skillset, they're judged by production.

If you're trying to argue that Bradford has a better skillset..(because the notion that McCoy is inaccurate is far to silly and unsupported to bother arguing against) then I'll concede that Bradford has a slightly better skillset.
But, both have little talent around them and this has been there production thus far:

Bradford 5,676-57.6%-24 TDs-21 INTs-74.2 Rating (89 rush yds)
McCoy.. 4,309-58.4%-20 TDs-20 INTs-74.6 Rating (348 rush yds)

Strikingly similar no?

[quote]As for Sanchez I just see too much Rex Grossman in him...No thanks[/quote]And to be clear [U][I][B]you[/B][/I][/U] are the one that said that [U][I][B]you[/B][/I][/U] would take Sanchez not me.[quote=skinsfaninok;869105] No chance and no to colt McCoy he sucks, small and avg arm, I'd rathe have Sanchez.[/quote]

That is true I said no thanks on mark unless it was compared to McCoy and I agree Sam s numbers aren't mind blowing I just think he's a guy that can lead a team far and colt is more of a guy that manages the game. Either way Let's hope we can get a QB to lean on for Years to come! HTTR

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

Colt McCoy, last I heard is averaging the fewest yards per attempt in the NFL this season. Given Hillis' decline and the lack of pass-catching weapons around him-not to mention the questions about his arm strength, that's probably not too surprising a stat.

That Drew Brees has the second fewest is a bit surprising. Thing is when Brees does go deep, he connects like no other QB.

Brees is as accurate of a thrower that's played in the NFL he's simply incredible..

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;869321]Brees is as accurate of a thrower that's played in the NFL he's simply incredible..[/quote]

Yeah well he one of the passes he threw to me he was way off. He claims I ran the wrong route but what does he know

Lol sorry SS I'm rolling w drew on that one

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869245]Well I did bring up Colt McCoy several weeks back but I don't think he's necessarily coming here. He's just someone that could be available.

A lot of people talk about Flynn and Hoyer. I think the Seahawks are going to go hard after Flynn and Hoyer stays in NE.

There is someone else rumored, but I'll keep that name under wraps and regardless he wouldn't deter the Redskins from drafting a QB

And as for the QB, the big 3 we all know of isn't necessarily the Redskins big 3. Of course, whether some guys even come out will make a huge difference[/quote]

What about Ryan Mallet? Is he just going to sit and rot on New England's bench? He's got the skill set to be a great passer. I know the Shanahan's don't like him and he's not very mature. But maybe he's learning from Brady.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;869314]That is true I said no thanks on mark unless it was compared to McCoy and I agree Sam s numbers aren't mind blowing I just think he's a guy that can lead a team far and colt is more of a guy that manages the game. Either way Let's hope we can get a QB to lean on for Years to come! HTTR[/quote]Which is fine, but its purely your perception.
There is nothing about there production that would one lead a team and one can 'only' manage a game.
If you really want to hash out brass tacks, McCoys production is more impressive then Bradfords when you consider the respective divisions and the quality of the teams they face.

But, I digress.

I hope that we get Matt Barkley because I think he could relate really well to Kyle's scheme.
In my heart of hearts I want RGIII but have concerns about Kyle's ability to teach the basic concepts of his vaunted to scheme to a non-prostyle QB unfamiliar with a rhythm drop back passing offense.

My sleeper QB is Russell Wilson, I love this guys skillset.
Dynamic playmaker, good arm, polished rhythm drop back pro-style QB.
If only he wasn't 5'11 he would be my guy.
Hey, how tall is Drew Brees 6'0 what a difference an inch makes.