Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;879033]What would that change? We're grading a trade that happened eight years ago.[/quote]

Understood. Which is why I'd question why the Giants would still be considered [I]stupid[/I] for giving up a king's ransom for Eli, since Eli has given them two Super Bowl berths, one win and another one yet to be decided. I mean, the main thing is winning championships right?

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

Isn't Luck originally from the DC/Maryland area.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;879020]Yes.[/quote]

I'll probably regret asking, but a SB win, quite possibly two, is not enough of a payoff to justify the trade, or at the least enough to not call it stupid?

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

Sam Bradford.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;879036]Don't mean to throw a mini tantrum, but I'm getting sick of the people that keep snapping at those that mention us getting Luck. Okay, WE F'ING GET IT, we are probably not getting Luck, now quit your b*tching and let us go on with our fantasy talk. Last time I check, a lot of the things we "predict" are going to happen, do not happen. So get over it and let us continue fantasize about having a beast of a QB.

:soapbox:[/quote]

Sorry man, did not mean to rain on your parade! I just recently squashed somebody's version (but not yours) of the Luck acquisition fantasy. I just have a hard time believing that the Redskins would finally be that lucky and that the Colts would be that dumb. I guess I am "conditioned" by 20 years of minimal Redskin success and don't want to set myself up for a big disappointment.

But hey, if we somehow pull it off, there will be a big celebration at my house! Keep dreaming and keep the hope alive; its not April yet. As you say, anything can happen between now and then. :goodjob:

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=Mattyk;879047]I'll probably regret asking, but a SB win, quite possibly two, is not enough of a payoff to justify the trade, or at the least enough to not call it stupid?[/quote]

I suppose we have to ask (but never know) if the Giants would have had the same success with Rivers. If Rivers would have gotten them roughly the same success, then the Giants overpaid for no net gain.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=Mattyk;878950]Were the Giants stupid for what they gave up for Eli?[/quote]

It doesnt look like they were but thats because we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

Would you say the Redskins were stupid for what they gave up for Jason Campbell? I would say they were.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;879045]Isn't Luck originally from the DC/Maryland area.[/quote]

Yes he is.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=Mattyk;879047]I'll probably regret asking, but a SB win, quite possibly two, is not enough of a payoff to justify the trade, or at the least enough to not call it stupid?[/quote]

I didn't think the trade was stupid then and I don't think it is now.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=irish;879091]It doesnt look like they were but thats because we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

Would you say the Redskins were stupid for what they gave up for Jason Campbell? I would say they were.[/quote]

How about Elway?

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=Mattyk;879047]I'll probably regret asking, but a SB win, quite possibly two, is not enough of a payoff to justify the trade, or at the least enough to not call it stupid?[/quote]It's easy to connect one event with the other, but they have pretty much nothing to do with each other.

New York could have had any of these quarterbacks with the picks they put in the Eli Manning deal:

Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers
Aaron Rodgers

Where does Manning rank on that list? Third? Fourth?

They weren't supposed to know that they were trading so much draft value for a top QB in a year where there were plenty of them available, but if you're going to ask me to credit them for pulling the trigger when history has proven that move (at best) unnecessary, well, I think that it's still pretty clear and obvious that San Diego fleeced them.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;879114]It's easy to connect one event with the other, but they have pretty much nothing to do with each other.

New York could have had any of these quarterbacks with the picks they put in the Eli Manning deal:

Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers
Aaron Rodgers

Where does Manning rank on that list? Third? Fourth?

They weren't supposed to know that they were trading so much draft value for a top QB in a year where there were plenty of them available, but if you're going to ask me to credit them for pulling the trigger when history has proven that move (at best) unnecessary, well, I think that it's still pretty clear and obvious that San Diego fleeced them.[/quote]

On that list I rank Eli second.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=skinsguy;879044]Understood. Which is why I'd question why the Giants would still be considered [I]stupid[/I] for giving up a king's ransom for Eli, since Eli has given them two Super Bowl berths, one win and another one yet to be decided. I mean, the main thing is winning championships right?[/quote]The main thing in evaluating a trade is winning championships? If you say so.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;879117]On that list I rank Eli second.[/quote]Behind Rodgers?

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;879112]How about Elway?[/quote]

Denver didnt really give up anything for Elway. Two nobody players and a pick. That was the steal of the century.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;879119]The main thing in evaluating a trade is winning championships? If you say so.[/quote]

I'd think that plays a big part in the argument. If you give up a lot of high picks for a quarterback, I think an adequate return on investment would be at least a decade of quarterback stability and recurring trips to the playoffs, as well as 2+ SB trips. Eli has mostly given them that. Now, granted, he hasn't played at an elite level all these years, but he has played like an elite qb this year and this is his second trip to the SB. I don't think he's HOF worthy but I'd say his return on investment has been worth it.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;879121]Behind Rodgers?[/quote]

Behind a healthy Roethlisberger. Rodgers is a slight 3rd behind Manning.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;879125]Behind a healthy Roethlisberger. Rodgers is a slight 3rd behind Manning.[/quote]Hhm. Reverse your list, then flip Rodgers and Rivers, and that's mine. Right now at least.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=irish;878934]Giving up picks to draft any QB is just plain stupid.[/quote]

Really? The Giants disagree.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;879126]Hhm. Reverse your list, then flip Rodgers and Rivers, and that's mine. Right now at least.[/quote]

Fair enough, of course you can't go wrong with any, but these aren't the top 3 qbs in the league either.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=mooby;879124]I'd think that plays a big part in the argument. If you give up a lot of high picks for a quarterback, I think an adequate return on investment would be at least a decade of quarterback stability and recurring trips to the playoffs, as well as 2+ SB trips. Eli has mostly given them that. Now, granted, he hasn't played at an elite level all these years, but he has played like an elite qb this year and this is his second trip to the SB. I don't think he's HOF worthy but I'd say his return on investment has been worth it.[/quote]Well, I think that's an adequate answer to the question "Eli Manning as Giants QB: success or failure?"

And I wouldn't argue otherwise. But what I am saying is if you're going to try to support the idea that trading up for a quarterback can be smart (which I think is sometimes the case, othertimes not), the 2004 SD-NYG trade is not a good example. That was a pretty decisive San Diego win. And you don't really have to look too much further past the career paths of Manning/Rivers/Roethlisberger to prove that.

The truth is that a lot of times, trading up into the top ten for a quarterback hasn't worked. It didn't make Mark Sanchez a better player, it didn't really work for the Falcons with Vick, and the Jags trade to land Gabbert looks questionable at this point.

On the other hand, Shanahan's move to get Cutler in the 2006 draft still looks pretty good right now. That wasn't the top ten, but it was the 11th pick. I think it can work if you play the market right. But if you're grading the Giants trade for Manning, it's tough to argue that they played the market right. They payed a ransom for the second or third best QB in the 2004 draft.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=Mattyk;879000]It's because there is.[/quote]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwZdm_gK7TQ]Cox Telephone Nerd - YouTube[/ame]

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

I don't see any way around the fact that a big part of the Giants' Manning gamble was that they were worried that Eli Manning was the only potential franchise QB in the 2004 draft. Which is a legitimate worry. But to give up two first rounders and a third rounder (and something late, either a fourth or a fifth), that's not just something you do because you are unsure of yourself. That's something that you do when you are confident in your evaluation that Eli has the goods and Rivers and Roethlisberger will be out of the league in five years.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;879134]Well, I think that's an adequate answer to the question "Eli Manning as Giants QB: success or failure?"

And I wouldn't argue otherwise. But what I am saying is if you're going to try to support the idea that trading up for a quarterback can be smart (which I think is sometimes the case, othertimes not), the 2004 SD-NYG trade is not a good example. That was a pretty decisive San Diego win. And you don't really have to look too much further past the career paths of Manning/Rivers/Roethlisberger to prove that.

The truth is that a lot of times, trading up into the top ten for a quarterback hasn't worked. It didn't make Mark Sanchez a better player, it didn't really work for the Falcons with Vick, and the Jags trade to land Gabbert looks questionable at this point.

On the other hand, Shanahan's move to get Cutler in the 2006 draft still looks pretty good right now. That wasn't the top ten, but it was the 11th pick. I think it can work if you play the market right. But if you're grading the Giants trade for Manning, it's tough to argue that they played the market right. They payed a ransom for the second or third best QB in the 2004 draft.[/quote]

I guess you could make the argument that if the Giants had kept Rivers, they could have had the same or better results with him as their QB. The same could be said about Big Ben, especially since he went on to win two SBs with the Steelers. I wonder if Eli would have had the same success he's had with the Giants in San Diego or Pittsburgh.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;879138]I don't see any way around the fact that a big part of the Giants' Manning gamble was that they were worried that Eli Manning was the only potential franchise QB in the 2004 draft. Which is a legitimate worry. But to give up two first rounders and a third rounder (and something late, either a fourth or a fifth), that's not just something you do because you are unsure of yourself. That's something that you do when you are confident in your evaluation that Eli has the goods and Rivers and Roethlisberger will be out of the league in five years.[/quote]

Yes. The trade would be a lot easier to evaluate as a Giants win if Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers had been busts. But that is not the case.

If someone else could have taken the Giants to the same destinations but without the trade costs, that's a Giants loss.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

With age, injury, roster bonus due, and the fact that Luck may not want to sit for a few years Payton Manning is as good as gone. It's an no-brainer from a business standpoint. Given this I highly doubt the Colts would be willing to trade the 1st over all pick for anything less than an entire draft class or 3 first round picks. Even if you don't think Luck is all that great you simply have to take him because not taking him is the kind of mistake that will get your fired real quick if you don't win games or he turns out to be the real deal.

Forget about Andrew Luck, he won't be on the Skins...worry about the real possibility that another team might trade into a top 5 spot and steal Griffin.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

Anyone else want to change their pick?....
[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/1/25/2734975/senior-bowl-south-team-practice-report-day-three]Senior Bowl: South Team Practice Report Day Three - Hogs Haven[/url]

[QUOTE]•Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden again looked comfortable and composed, showing pretty good arm strength and accuracy. Weeden is clearly the best quarterback in Mobile for me, and I think he'll probably work his way up to the second round before draft day (at worst early third). From a Redskins point of view, I noticed Weeden and Redskins offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan appeared to get along really well, I saw a few clips of them together laughing and smiling while Kyle gave Weeden the play. Kyle looked a lot more serious with Foles and Lindley from what I saw. Also another thing I picked up on - and maybe I'm reading too much into this - was that Criner, Rainey and Weeden all saw time on field together. Every time I saw Weeden come in on offense against defense, Rainey and Criner also came in. Yesterday, JimmyK told us how he saw Redskins scouts talking to both Criner and Rainey. Again, I could be (and probably am) reading too much into it, it could just be that they are all listed as starters on Saturday. But I thought I would share a few things I had picked up on.[/QUOTE]

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;879128]Really? The Giants disagree.[/quote]

I'm sure they do. The difference with the Giants when they got Eli is that they were a consistently good team with talent that was only missing a QB so they could afford to give up picks to make the move. The Skins are not a good team and have so many holes that need fixing that they just cant afford to lose a bunch of picks.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=irish;879154]I'm sure they do. The difference with the Giants when they got Eli is that they were a consistently good team with talent that was only missing a QB so they could afford to give up picks to make the move. The Skins are not a good team and have so many holes that need fixing that they just cant afford to lose a bunch of picks.[/quote]

If the team has isentified THE Franchise QB for the future....go get him.

Plug holes around him later.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

I would be happy with Rainey as our slot WR, 3rd down RB and return specialist. As well as kick blocker.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=Son Of Man;879157]If the team has isentified THE Franchise QB for the future....go get him.

Plug holes around him later.[/quote]

Like they did when they gave up picks and took Jason Campbell as the franchise QB of the future? That didnt work out too good.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=Son Of Man;879157]If the team has isentified THE Franchise QB for the future....go get him.

Plug holes around him later.[/quote]And if it proves to be this simple, tell Shanahan I want the last two years of my life back!

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=irish;879163]Like they did when they gave up picks and took Jason Campbell as the franchise QB of the future? That didnt work out too good.[/quote]

Wasn't a Franchise QB.

Different people picking the talent now.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=SBXVII;879152]Anyone else want to change their pick?....
[URL="http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/1/25/2734975/senior-bowl-south-team-practice-report-day-three"]Senior Bowl: South Team Practice Report Day Three - Hogs Haven[/URL][/quote]

No, I'm good. He is 29. Unless they say he'll play like Peyton in his prime until he's 40 idw him. Would I take him as a backup? Yeah, maybe. But the odds on him having a long career that's worth it is against him.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=Son Of Man;879171]Wasn't a Franchise QB.

Different people picking the talent now.[/quote]

Ahhhhh the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. We know now he wasnt a franchise QB but we didnt back then. We dont know about any of "the franchise" QBs in this draft either.

I do have more faith in the current talent pickers that the past ones.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=irish;879091]It doesnt look like they were but thats because we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

Would you say the Redskins were stupid for what they gave up for Jason Campbell? I would say they were.[/quote]

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

But you said "Giving up picks to draft any QB is just plain stupid."

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;879158]I would be happy with Rainey as our slot WR, 3rd down RB and return specialist. As well as kick blocker.[/quote]

Agree, we need to get this guy CUT Banks.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;879158]I would be happy with Rainey as our slot WR, 3rd down RB and return specialist. As well as kick blocker.[/quote]

Juron Criner is the WR 6-2 220. Rainey is a RB 5-8 174.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=SBXVII;879190]Juron Criner is the WR 6-2 220. Rainey is a RB 5-8 174.[/quote]

I know who they are. Rainey played WR in college as well as RB. He can lineup in the slot just fine.

Re: Predict Who Will Be The Next Redskins QB (Not Necessarily the QB You Want)
 

[quote=mooby;879173]No, I'm good. He is 29. Unless they say he'll play like Peyton in his prime until he's 40 idw him. Would I take him as a backup? Yeah, maybe. But the odds on him having a long career that's worth it is against him.[/quote]

Wow, you are soooo far off, he's only 28. lol. It's not a matter of will he play into his 40's. Thats not what we need him for. Luck will be gone. I personally think RGIII will be also. I think the Browns will have more ammo for him but I'm not fond of tossing a 1st and 2nd rounder this year and a 1st and 3rd next year to get RGIII. We hinder ourselves until the 3rd round.

Right now Weeden is learning our offense. He's practicing very well in it. He can make all the throws we need him to make which means by getting quality weapons around him our team will win games. Because he's already learned some of the system it will be easier to learn the rest plus he will be several steps ahead of RGIII. The team would have to start from scratch in June when the Rookies are allowed to show up vs. Weeden already knowing some of the plays and cough cough possibly already having a play book to learn the rest by June.

Weeden would only need to play 5 yrs giving the team time enough to find a really decent Rookie in the next 2 yrs to start to develope for the future. You see, Weeden buys the team time to get the franchise QB you'd like them to get especially since maybe next year will have more QB's declaring.