Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I don't recall the player, but I saw a clip of a NFL that did this. It was pretty blatent, but he used to write the targets number on his waist towel.
This could also explain LL play at safety the past couple of years. F@ck the tackle, just lay them out.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=hagams;891463]I don't recall the player, but I saw a clip of a NFL that did this. It was pretty blatent, but he used to write the targets number on his waist towel.
This could also explain LL play at safety the past couple of years. F@ck the tackle, just lay them out.[/quote]

no, that just LL.

and i don't know why people are so surprised or defensive about it. We caused a LOT of opposing injuries when GW was here, and playing after the whistle was pretty common too.

people are always going to want to take out the other guys QB though, it just makes sense if you want a better shot at winning. but an illegal hit is still an illegal hit, and they all violated the NFL's contract law, which is sorta like getting capone on tax evasion, but there's that too.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Paintrain;891438]Clayton just said on Sportscenter that it is UNLIKELY the Redskins will face any sanctions from their bounties. Too far back in the past.

Add to it that it wasn't known about from the organizational standpoint and most of the players from those teams are out of the league, it would be unfair to penalize the 2013 Redskins for something a coach who has been with 3 other teams since did back in the mid 2000's.[/quote]

That's great news!

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;891386]Well heres a funny coincidence. And by funny I mean hilarious.
[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/post/tony-dungy-traces-peyton-mannings-neck-problems-to-hit-in-2006-game-against-redskins/2011/09/12/gIQApz5ONK_blog.html"]Tony Dungy traces Peyton Manning’s neck problems to hit in 2006 game against Redskins - The Early Lead - The Washington Post[/URL][/quote]

I remember that game and they went after Peyton pretty good. That's part of football Mr. Dungy.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;891475]I remember that game and they went after Peyton pretty good. That's part of football Mr. Dungy.[/quote]

Wouldn't it be some $h!t if Peyton came to play at the place that started his neck woes because of a pay for lay (the wood) program by Gregg Williams?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SmootSmack;891440]But they were illegal late hits and the Saints were told to stop but didn't, it's more than just roughing up the QB[/quote]

It was obvious in that game that New Orleans was trying to get some hits on Farve. Some were legal, some were late. But nothing that was out of line.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

There's a fine line between good hard clean football, and taking things too far.

Paying players to intentionally injure players is taking it over the line. It's amazing that some think that's part of the game, or just football.

It's not.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;891478]It was obvious in that game that New Orleans was trying to get some hits on Farve. Some were legal, some were late. But nothing that was out of line.[/quote]

How is a late hit not out of line, especially now that we know they were getting paid for knockout shots?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891424]I believe Gibbs 100%.

He always let his DC run that side of the ball. Plus he would have no reason to lie about it now, and if you know anything about him as a person he would never allow such a thing.[/quote]

I don't believe him cause he doesn't want us to lose any picks or get in trouble with the league. We're talking about a guy who lost OTA practices cause they were getting too physical. I just find it real hard to believe that he knew NOTHING about it. Besides we're not talking about bounties to hurt a player... a la Buddy Ryan and the Dallas kicker. We're talking about some extra incentive for hits, turnovers and so forth. We'll agree to disagree.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891479]There's a fine line between good hard clean football, and taking things too far.

Paying players to intentionally injure players is taking it over the line. It's amazing that some think that's part of the game, or just football.

It's not.[/quote]

But have they with 100% certainty authenticated the claims that the Saints were doing this to intentionally hurt and injury other players? Because a lot of current and former players have come out saying that this kind of thing is league wide and has been for some time but as a motivation for clean hard hits. Matt Bowen was interviewed on SportsCenter earlier and talked all about the Redskins program under Gregg Williams but claimed it was for legal hits.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;891482]I don't believe him cause he doesn't want us to lose any picks or get in trouble with the league. We're talking about a guy who lost OTA practices cause they were getting too physical. I just find it real hard to believe that he knew NOTHING about it. Besides we're not talking about bounties to hurt a player... a la Buddy Ryan and the Dallas kicker. We're talking about some extra incentive for hits, turnovers and so forth. We'll agree to disagree.[/quote]

The league isn't even looking at penalizing the Redskins 5 years and 2 head coaches later.

Having a physical OTA is not even in the same league as authorizing bounties. You're kidding yourself if you think the bounties didn't involve extra cash for injuring players.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SkinzWin;891484]But have they with 100% certainty authenticated the claims that the Saints were doing this to intentionally hurt and injury other players? Because a lot of current and former players have come out saying that this kind of thing is league wide and has been for some time but as a motivation for clean hard hits. Matt Bowen was interviewed on SportsCenter earlier and talked all about the Redskins program under Gregg Williams but claimed it was for legal hits.[/quote]

And others have claimed the exact opposite from what Bowen is saying.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891486]And others have claimed the exact opposite from what Bowen is saying.[/quote]

So how do they determine what it truth and what is false? It's players words vs other player's words is it not? Where did this story even break from in the first place? I'm not saying this didn't happen, but unless they were stupid enough to write down everything or record it in some fashion, I don't even see how this can be authenticated as fact.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SkinzWin;891491]So how do they determine what it truth and what is false? It's players words vs other player's words is it not? Where did this story even break from in the first place? I'm not saying this didn't happen, but unless they were stupid enough to write down everything or record it in some fashion, I don't even see how this can be authenticated as fact.[/quote]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/02/gregg-williams-apologizes-for-terrible-mistake/]Gregg Williams apologizes for “terrible mistake” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

What else do you need to see?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

OMG [url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8275c188/article/report-nfl-looking-into-redskins-bounty-system-under-williams?module=HP11_headline_stack]NFL.com news: Report: NFL looking into Redskins' 'bounty' system under Williams[/url]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891492][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/02/gregg-williams-apologizes-for-terrible-mistake/]Gregg Williams apologizes for “terrible mistake” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

What else do you need to see?[/quote]

Whether it was bounties for hard but clean hits, or for knockout hits to injure other players. Playing for bounties is against league rules regardless, but it makes a BIG difference if it was meant for legal or illegal hits. If it is for legal hits then the whole league will be fined and suspended. The penalty for the Saints should be a lot different based on the meaning of the program IMO.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;891502]OMG [url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8275c188/article/report-nfl-looking-into-redskins-bounty-system-under-williams?module=HP11_headline_stack]NFL.com news: Report: NFL looking into Redskins' 'bounty' system under Williams[/url][/quote]

Well here we f*cking go. Ex players need to keep their mouth shut...stop snitchin

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SkinzWin;891503]Whether it was bounties for hard but clean hits, or for knockout hits to injure other players. Playing for bounties is against league rules regardless, but it makes a BIG difference if it was meant for legal or illegal hits. If it is for legal hits then the whole league will be fined and suspended. The penalty for the Saints should be a lot different based on the meaning of the program IMO.[/quote]

They broke the rules, plain and simple, and tried to cover it up. We're arguing semantics at this point.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891506]They broke the rules, plain and simple, and tried to cover it up. We're arguing semantics at this point.[/quote]

I understand that. But that's like saying the penalty for rape or murder is the same as assault or petty larceny. Rules can be broken in a more or less severe way. Don't you think that if the program was to intentionally hurt the penalty by the league should be worse than if it was a pay for performance program but with clean hits?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;891502]OMG [url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8275c188/article/report-nfl-looking-into-redskins-bounty-system-under-williams?module=HP11_headline_stack]NFL.com news: Report: NFL looking into Redskins' 'bounty' system under Williams[/url][/quote]

Of course they're investigating us. At the very least it's a violation of the CBA. Lets hope they only view it as a minor violation and fine us money or a mid round pick and that the reason the hammer is being brought down on New Orleans is due to the fact that they were asked to stop.

[quote]So the New Orleans Saints were dumb enough to continue a “bounty” system even after the NFL investigated them once, after owner Tom Benson told general manager Mickey Loomis to have it stopped and, worst of all, long after it had stopped working. [/quote]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=That Guy;891466]no, that just LL.

and i don't know why people are so surprised or defensive about it. We caused a LOT of opposing injuries when GW was here, and playing after the whistle was pretty common too.

people are always going to want to take out the other guys QB though, it just makes sense if you want a better shot at winning. but an illegal hit is still an illegal hit, and they all violated the NFL's contract law, which is sorta like getting capone on tax evasion, but there's that too.[/quote]

Heck in 2010 we got 2 of our 6 wins by knocking the starting QB out of the game in games against Philly and Tennessee.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

To be fair in the Eagles game we were already winning when Vick was knocked out.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SkinzWin;891507]I understand that. But that's like saying the penalty for rape or murder is the same as assault or petty larceny. Rules can be broken in a more or less severe way. Don't you think that if the program was to intentionally hurt the penalty by the league should be worse than if it was a pay for performance program but with clean hits?[/quote]

I don't think you can draw a line between paying for clean hits or knockout shots. Either way it's illegal and the penalty should be severe regardless.

Let's not be naive, I think GW was paying for rewarding players for both types of hits.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891511]I don't think you can draw a line between paying for clean hits or knockout shots. Either way it's illegal and the penalty should be severe regardless.

Let's not be naive, I think GW was paying for rewarding players for both types of hits.[/quote]

He was using the phrase "kill shots." How anyone can be arguing that this is on the up and up is funny and stupid.

He wanted to knock out the top players on the opponents offense, and likened doing so to cutting off the head of a snake. He wanted the opponents best players out of the game, plain and simple. That doesn't mean he didn't reward good play that wasn't dirty- a la Philip Daniels getting $1500 for 4 sacks- but to encourage "kill shots" is deplorable. You're talking about peoples lives and livelihood. Football is dangerous enough without that kind of thuggery.

I mean, Williams himself apologized for it, called it a mistake, and said he knew it was wrong while he was doing it. Like you said, if the main culprit admitted it and said he was wrong, what else is there to defend?

Those of you excusing any of this should just stop. You're lowering the overall IQ of this message board.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Major difference is that it was not an issue that the whole staff and organization were complicit in. We will likely get hit with a fine akin to lack of organizational control but I doubt we lose a pick.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Paintrain;891523]Major difference is that it was not an issue that the whole staff and organization were complicit in. We will likely get hit with a fine akin to lack of organizational control but I doubt we lose a pick.[/quote]

True dat. Perhaps another difference is that the Saints continued after a warning. It remains unclear that we were warned but continued on anyway.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Paintrain;891523]Major difference is that it was not an issue that the whole staff and organization were complicit in. We will likely get hit with a fine akin to lack of organizational control but I doubt we lose a pick.[/quote]


Are you sure?I ask becuase if I remember right Gegg Williams was the #1 canidate to replace Joe Gibbs and even Williams himself thought he was getting the job,what happen ...did Dan Snyder know and just dump him ,Vinnie??? Your thoughts?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I really hope we don't get punished for this. When is it enough time to say 'hey we can't punish them for this.' ??

I mean really, if the Raiders of the 80s we doing steroids and coaches supplied them of it, do the coaches, players and organization really get punished for what happened years ago with players that aren't even on that team anymore?

I will be furious if we lose a pick that could be crucial in us getting RG3..

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Lotus;891527]True dat. Perhaps another difference is that the Saints continued after a warning. It remains unclear that we were warned but continued on anyway.[/quote]

It's pretty unbelievable that the owner, GM, and head coach all knew about it, and yet it continued.

[QUOTE=GMScud;891512]He was using the phrase "kill shots." How anyone can be arguing that this is on the up and up is funny and stupid.

He wanted to knock out the top players on the opponents offense, and likened doing so to cutting off the head of a snake. He wanted the opponents best players out of the game, plain and simple. That doesn't mean he didn't reward good play that wasn't dirty- a la Philip Daniels getting $1500 for 4 sacks- but to encourage "kill shots" is deplorable. You're talking about peoples lives and livelihood. Football is dangerous enough without that kind of thuggery.

I mean, Williams himself apologized for it, called it a mistake, and said he knew it was wrong while he was doing it. Like you said, if the main culprit admitted it and said he was wrong, what else is there to defend?

Those of you excusing any of this should just stop. You're lowering the overall IQ of this message board.[/QUOTE]

The GMScud missile ftw here.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Question , with this situation with the Saints ,possible fines supensions loss of draft picks etc.....does this now throw Drew Breese into the free agent situation and would you take Breese or Manning?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Giantone;891537]Question , with this situation with the Saints ,possible fines supensions loss of draft picks etc.....does this now throw Drew Breese into the free agent situation and would you take Breese or Manning?[/quote]

[url=http://www.google.com/imgres?q=drew+breese&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=595&tbm=isch&tbnid=NbIPNlaSYy4OOM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ngfootball.org/player_detail.asp%3FID%3D156&docid=Cjj9XcFeGR0uJM&imgurl=http://www.ngfootball.org/images/players/54.jpg&w=225&h=338&ei=woxST4KVLaigsgLxuPzvBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1048&vpy=214&dur=2911&hovh=270&hovw=180&tx=76&ty=165&sig=101372387830778003305&page=1&tbnh=112&tbnw=74&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0]Redirect Notice[/url]

i dont think i want drew breese at QB, now if it was Drew Brees then yes i would. lol

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Giantone;891537]Question , with this situation with the Saints ,possible fines supensions loss of draft picks etc.....does this now throw Drew Breese into the free agent situation and would you take Breese or Manning?[/quote]

Why would this throw Brees into the FA situation? If anything I would think it would further incentivize the Saints to sign him. If they're hit with major sanctions and they lose their best player and team leader, it would basically be blow it up and start it all over. It would be a huge disaster.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891481]How is a late hit not out of line, especially now that we know they were getting paid for knockout shots?[/quote]

I assume that you understand the culture of football. Right? Late hits happen every game. It's the refs opinion whether it's a flag or not. They went after Farve but I don't remember any hits where I was like.."they did that to take him out." These were not bounties where GW was asking his players to try and break a bone.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891485]The league isn't even looking at penalizing the Redskins 5 years and 2 head coaches later.

Having a physical OTA is not even in the same league as authorizing bounties. You're kidding yourself if you think the [B]bounties didn't involve extra cash for injuring players.[/quote][/B]

[B]Yes to inflict pain. That's football. Right? Guys on the Saints were not trying to end anyone's career. [/B]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;891492][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/02/gregg-williams-apologizes-for-terrible-mistake/"]Gregg Williams apologizes for “terrible mistake” | ProFootballTalk[/URL]

What else do you need to see?[/quote]

He's saying that cause he has to. He knows he's in hot water and the league's going to over react to something that's been going on since football started. Behind closed doors he's probably saying..." what a bunch of bullshit!"

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Giantone;891530]Are you sure?I ask becuase if I remember right Gegg Williams was the #1 canidate to replace Joe Gibbs and even Williams himself thought he was getting the job,what happen ...did Dan Snyder know and just dump him ,Vinnie??? Your thoughts?[/quote]

Nah, Gibbs and Vinny have both already said publicly that they had no idea this was going on and Snyder wouldn't have denied Williams the job because of this. Williams thought he was getting the job because he has an enormous ego but he was never really in consideration.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;891541][/B]

[B]Yes to inflict pain. That's football. Right? Guys on the Saints were not trying to end anyone's career. [/B][/quote]

Where do you draw the line? From what I understand, the investigation found that bonuses were higher if you knocked an opponent out for the game. With how fast football moves, how can you differentiate trying to knock someone out for a game, season, or career? What, their LB's say, hey, I'm just gonna sprain his knee a little bit? Please man.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;891541][/B]

[B]Yes to inflict pain. That's football. Right? Guys on the Saints were not trying to end anyone's career. [/B][/quote]

:yeahright:bs:

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;891541][/B]

[B]Yes to inflict pain. That's football. Right? [/B][/quote]


Wrong and if someone must explain the difference to you ,well you don't know much about the "game" of football.:doh: