Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;906181]I hold no grudge against McNabb, [B]just think he's sadly mistaken[/B][/quote]

Remains to be seen; however, if I were a betting man I'd say it's 50/50 right now or maybe even slightly in McNabb's favor if we're simply talking about Mike and Kyle's inclination/ability to effectively tailor their esoteric, almost mystical, scheme for the QB first and other players on the roster.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

I think the thing that probably hurts McNabb's position the most is that Kyle can be as egotistical and unwilling to adjust as McNabb thinks he is, and yet, his scheme would still create enough splash plays for a guy like RG3 to have more success than a player like McNabb. Just because Griffin is a better fit.

I'm very skeptical that the Redskins finally have it right all of a sudden, or that they have even found the problem, but I'm a lot more sure that Griffin isn't going to have five seasons with a completion percentage below 60% to start his career like McNabb did. Mike and Kyle aren't going to need to re-create the Andy Reid Eagles to make this work. Their current pass-first, play-action based offense should give ample opportunity for RG3 to succeed.

And if it doesn't, I think the Shanahans are going to take the fall before Griffin. At least, I hope to a higher power that the Shanahan's don't get to pick ANOTHER quarterback if this one doesn't take us where we need to go.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

Mike Wilbon is the Al Sharpton of sports.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=mbedner3420;906198]Maybe Philly just hates quarterbacks[/quote]

They seem to be fine with Vick.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=The Goat;906137]I think fans' petty grudge toward DM is far more pathetic than his grudge about the Shanahans. It was handled poorly on both ends but ultimately the HEAD COACH is given the title of HEAD COACH for a reason.

The best way to move past Mike's mistakes, which are mostly a product of his ego, is to start winning. That said if the offensive scheme doesn't "click" with RGIII at the helm and we continue to see, say, McNabb type of results there will be, and deservedly so, signficant criticism of this little family adventure the Skins are on.[/quote]
I don't have any grudge against him but if he's gonna talk smack, that opens him up to get blasted as well. If he was lighting it up in Philly, then stunk here and then lit it up in Minnesota, he'd be FULLY justified to say whatever he wanted. But he didn't. He stunk in Minny, got benched and then cut. He's got no credibility to criticize from my viewpoint.

I was really disappointed that he busted out in DC. I thought he would come in, be a winner, be a leader, be a force in our offense. I had high hopes that were quickly dashed when he became exactly what his Philly detractors said he was. An inaccurate QB with declining mobility and playmaking ability that made him one of the better QB of the late 90's-early 00's.

There's no reasonable analysis that would indicate that RGIII won't be a fit with Shanny and vice versa. I'll take the word of Mayock, Jaws, Cosell, Lombardi, Kiper and McShay over an embittered former one and done bust.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;906202]I think the thing that probably hurts McNabb's position the most is that Kyle can be as egotistical and unwilling to adjust as McNabb thinks he is, and yet, his scheme would still create enough splash plays for a guy like RG3 to have more success than a player like McNabb. Just because Griffin is a better fit.

[B]I'm very skeptical that the Redskins finally have it right all of a sudden, or that they have even found the problem, but I'm a lot more sure that Griffin isn't going to have five seasons with a completion percentage below 60% to start his career like McNabb did. Mike and Kyle aren't going to need to re-create the Andy Reid Eagles to make this work. Their current pass-first, play-action based offense should give ample opportunity for RG3 to succeed.

And if it doesn't, I think the Shanahans are going to take the fall before Griffin. At least, I hope to a higher power that the Shanahan's don't get to pick ANOTHER quarterback if this one doesn't take us where we need to go.[/B][/quote]
So maybe this is the wrong thread for this but how will you quantify success or that the Shanahans have 'finally gotten it right'? What are your benchmarks or milestones you are looking for to determine success or failure?

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=The Goat;906199]Remains to be seen; however, if I were a betting man I'd say it's 50/50 right now or maybe even slightly in McNabb's favor if we're simply talking about Mike and Kyle's inclination/ability to effectively tailor their esoteric, almost mystical, scheme for the QB first and other players on the roster.[/quote]

Right, because we don't have Mike's proven decades of history of running plays suited for his qb's style to use as evidence. Haven't we been over this?

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=mooby;906439]Right, because we don't have Mike's proven decades of history of running plays suited for his qb's style to use as evidence. Haven't we been over this?[/quote]

Nope. Never. Not at all. By the way, I also heard that RGIII declined a private workout with the Colts!!

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

If RGIII does not fit in Shannahan's syst3m then we get a coach that can fit RGIII in their system. We invested too much in RGII he is the franchise. No more excuses Shannahan either wins or he is toast.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;906490][B]If RGIII does not fit in Shannahan's syst3m then we get a coach that can fit RGIII in their system[/B]. We invested too much in RGII he is the franchise. No more excuses Shannahan either wins or he is toast.[/quote]

Agreed. We've waited two decades or more for a legitimate QB and we can't screw this up.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=Paintrain;906431]I don't have any grudge against him but if he's gonna talk smack, that opens him up to get blasted as well. If he was lighting it up in Philly, then stunk here and then lit it up in Minnesota, he'd be FULLY justified to say whatever he wanted. But he didn't. He stunk in Minny, got benched and then cut. He's got no credibility to criticize from my viewpoint.

I was really disappointed that he busted out in DC. I thought he would come in, be a winner, be a leader, be a force in our offense. I had high hopes that were quickly dashed when he became exactly what his Philly detractors said he was. An inaccurate QB with declining mobility and playmaking ability that made him one of the better QB of the late 90's-early 00's.

There's no reasonable analysis that would indicate that RGIII won't be a fit with Shanny and vice versa. I'll take the word of Mayock, Jaws, Cosell, Lombardi, Kiper and McShay over an embittered former one and done bust.[/quote]

Did not mean to single you out and sincere apologies if it seemed as such. I guess my point is: isn't ultimate responsibility on Mike (and Bruce probably to a lesser extent) that we traded for a washed up QB? As in we can all agree McNabb wasn't the answer, but how did a SB winning legacy coach goof the evaluation so badly?! Savvy?

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=mooby;906439]Right, [B]because we don't have Mike's proven decades of history of running plays suited for his qb's style to use as evidence. [/B]Haven't we been over this?[/quote]

No, just no. I have no idea whether you watched Denver while Mike was HC but that offense, even post Elway, doesn't resemble what we've seen thus far by any stretch of the imagination. Namely, Mike's was a run-first offense, even when he had slingers at QB (Elway, Plummer, Cutler). In Washington he's had average at best QB performance yet passed more than ever before, so personnel isn't the difference maker. Kyle is the difference, and (so far) it's his pass first offense we're seeing, which changes the nature of what Mike did for decades, as you say lol, and what he would likely do if this were still his offense.

So it's a bit tricky...hanging our hopes on a legacy coach for what he accomplished but recognizing it's not really his offense we're running. Would I feel more confident w/ Mike's offense? Indeed.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=The Goat;906513]No, just no. I have no idea whether you watched Denver while Mike was HC but that offense, even post Elway, doesn't resemble what we've seen thus far by any stretch of the imagination. Namely, Mike's was a run-first offense, even when he had slingers at QB (Elway, Plummer, Cutler). In Washington he's had average at best QB performance yet passed more than ever before, so personnel isn't the difference maker. Kyle is the difference, and (so far) it's his pass first offense we're seeing, which changes the nature of what Mike did for decades, as you say lol, and what he would likely do if this were still his offense.

So it's a bit tricky...hanging our hopes on a legacy coach for what he accomplished but recognizing it's not really his offense we're running. Would I feel more confident w/ Mike's offense? Indeed.[/quote]

Your whole argument is that Mike doesn't use his qb's to their strengths. I'm simply saying that past history indicates he does. If your problem lies with Kyle and his control of the offense, than you need to say so.

Personally, I believe Griffin, and even Luck, show the qualities that both Mike and Kyle look for in a quarterback, and they'd be hard pressed to come up with ways that would make Griffin fail. From what I can gather you seem to think that because we've failed with three has-beens at qb that means there's a 50/50 chance we're going to fail with a prospect who does everything we look for in a quarterback, and is also supremely gifted and to top it off, young, malleable, and willing to learn. Aka the perfect combination.

In the end, if Mike and Kyle fail to make this kid into the greatest quarterback DC has seen since Sonny J, by all means you can pull a CultBrennan and gloat about being right until we all tune you out. But I have more faith that the opposite will happen, and so do a lot of people that know a hell of a lot more about the subject than I do.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[QUOTE=mooby;906523]Your whole argument is that Mike doesn't use his qb's to their strengths. I'm simply saying that past history indicates he does. If your problem lies with Kyle and his control of the offense, than you need to say so.QUOTE]

See my original post bud I say Mike and Kyle, and that's not my argument anyway.

...thanks for the laughs though your post cracking me up.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=Mattyk;906545]Didn't Schaub have a couple of highly productive seasons under Kyle?[/quote]

Yes he did, a great season in 2010.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=CapitalDefense;906546]Yes he did, a great season in 2010.[/quote]

In 2010 Kyle was in Washington, no?

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=Paintrain;906434]So maybe this is the wrong thread for this but how will you quantify success or that the Shanahans have 'finally gotten it right'? What are your benchmarks or milestones you are looking for to determine success or failure?[/quote]When we start to compete with and beat NFL teams who are in year to year contention (like we did with the Giants last season), and when we start to crush the bottom 6-8 teams in any given year on the field. When we're competing with playoff teams in meaningful statistical categories. And finally, when we're making personnel moves that suggest we're a big market organization who knows how to use it's resources to separate from teams that don't (or shouldn't) have the means to compete with us.

If we can get a couple of those things right, we'll be on the right track. We already failed on the personnel front this year, but every other one of those criteria is still in play in 2012.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=The Goat;906499]Did not mean to single you out and sincere apologies if it seemed as such. I guess my point is: isn't ultimate responsibility on Mike (and Bruce probably to a lesser extent) that we traded for a washed up QB? As in we can all agree McNabb wasn't the answer, but how did a SB winning legacy coach goof the evaluation so badly?! Savvy?[/quote]For some reason this a truth that most media and fans don't recognize: although Mike and Kyle are running the same offense they are decidedly different playcallers.

Thankfully, Griffin fits either style.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=The Goat;906528]
See my original post bud I say Mike and Kyle, and that's not my argument anyway.

...thanks for the laughs though your post cracking me up.[/quote]

So what is your argument? I'm having a hard time with what you're trying to say here. Do you think we're doomed to failure with Mike and Kyle at the helm? Is the glass half empty or is it half full? Too many cooks in the kitchen? Do you think they have no credibility, and deserve absolutely no benefit of the doubt based on past history?

Do you think no matter what path they take, be it draft, FA, or otherwise, that we will never be successful no matter what? I don't get it. It seems like every move this franchise makes, you laughably dismiss it as foolish. Why bother watching or following the team if you think we're just doomed to failure. Is it the fascination of watching a train wreck? I don't get it.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[QUOTE=mooby;906566]So what is your argument? I'm having a hard time with what you're trying to say here. Do you think we're doomed to failure with Mike and Kyle at the helm? Is the glass half empty or is it half full? Too many cooks in the kitchen? Do you think they have no credibility, and deserve absolutely no benefit of the doubt based on past history?



Do you think no matter what path they take, be it draft, FA, or otherwise, that we will never be successful no matter what? I don't get it. It seems like every move this franchise makes, you laughably dismiss it as foolish. Why bother watching or following the team if you think we're just doomed to failure. Is it the fascination of watching a train wreck? I don't get it.[/QUOTE]



I think we should all have a round of beers on Matty.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;906568]I think we should all have a round of beers on Matty.[/quote]

/Stressful day, needs a drink.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=The Goat;906499]Did not mean to single you out and sincere apologies if it seemed as such. I guess my point is: isn't ultimate responsibility on Mike (and Bruce probably to a lesser extent) that we traded for a washed up QB? As in we can all agree McNabb wasn't the answer, but how did a SB winning legacy coach goof the evaluation so badly?! Savvy?[/quote]

Nah, no worries, was just replying in general. Yes, it was their bad but two years later they aren't still talking about it. He is. If he had responded with something more neutral and said its up to them to maximize his talents but he's got all of the tools and Shanny has had success in the past it would have been all good. Since he went off on a half cocked rip job, he got the brunt of Redskins Nation which mostly had forgotten about him.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

Hey did you hear RG3 dissed the Colts?

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=Mattyk;906582]Hey did you hear RG3 dissed the Colts?[/quote]

No what happened.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=Mattyk;906582]Hey did you hear RG3 dissed the Colts?[/quote]

[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkuVn7RJWK0PxI6LxHETwiLle7TxdxXC0-ifNxdX0uwg4KGla6Ow[/IMG][IMG]https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTN6g69b-_sm87M0gjozt-MPN-iZPtylN4VUKdIeeokZKhHQC6eQA[/IMG]

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;906586][IMG]https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkuVn7RJWK0PxI6LxHETwiLle7TxdxXC0-ifNxdX0uwg4KGla6Ow[/IMG][IMG]https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTN6g69b-_sm87M0gjozt-MPN-iZPtylN4VUKdIeeokZKhHQC6eQA[/IMG][/quote]

hehe that's excellent...ty for the chuckles Dirtbag!

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;906549]When we start to compete with and beat NFL teams who are in year to year contention (like we did with the Giants last season), and when we start to crush the bottom 6-8 teams in any given year on the field. When we're competing with playoff teams in meaningful statistical categories. And finally, when we're making personnel moves that suggest we're a big market organization who knows how to use it's resources to separate from teams that don't (or shouldn't) have the means to compete with us.

If we can get a couple of those things right, we'll be on the right track. [B] We already failed on the personnel front this year[/B], but every other one of those criteria is still in play in 2012.[/quote]

How can we say that when we aren't even to training camp yet GTripp?


There is time to improve on what we have. The salary cap hit is slowing down the team. We have the draft. Salary restructures could free up some space if needed as well as cuts to resign LF and there would still be some cash left to push up right to the cap with a few vet FAs or maybe some other second and third tier guys. AND if we really hit on RGIII or Luck and they live up to everyone's expectations and hopes. Wouldn't adding a franchise QB to our current team = a win for this years off season acquisitions?

I believe that we need time to evaluate the roster once the season starts again. This may end up being a great offseason for adding talent to our team. OR it could be a huge failure that leads to a new HC...... you just never know. It is just to early to state that.

Other than that I agree with your answer.

BTW I read somewhere on some web page that RGIII declined a private work out with the Colts. :)

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[quote=mooby;906566]So what is your argument? I'm having a hard time with what you're trying to say here. Do you think we're doomed to failure with Mike and Kyle at the helm? Is the glass half empty or is it half full? Too many cooks in the kitchen? Do you think they have no credibility, and deserve absolutely no benefit of the doubt based on past history?

Do you think no matter what path they take, be it draft, FA, or otherwise, that we will never be successful no matter what? I don't get it. It seems like every move this franchise makes, you laughably dismiss it as foolish. Why bother watching or following the team if you think we're just doomed to failure. Is it the fascination of watching a train wreck? I don't get it.[/quote]

Ooof, can't even remember what I said at this point lol. I keed I keed...and now try to answer your ?s which are fair ones with the same honesty! Sorry I don't know how to do the split quote magic trick...would be nice if there was a link to some two step process I've missed all this time...but whatevs.

Admittedly never been a big fan of Mike. I think the various stars (pun intended) of Elway, Sharpe, Davis, and a stellar defense all had to perfectly align for the man who resembles Splinter to win two rings. And his impact on Elway is debatable. John is a hell of a smart guy and was high up the learning curve by the time Mike rode into Denver. That said, he's exponentially more qualified to run the offense than his son, and I think it's pretty obvious Kyle is really calling the game. Therefor I don't implicitly trust Kyle's offense to nurture/develop our best hope for an elite franchise QB in at least two decades.

I've criticized our offense plenty for its slow tempo, sometimes bizarre series of plays, questionable preparedness, and I don't think a rookie QB alone can lead his offense to solutions all around. They wouldn't even need a coaching staff!!

Something I've tried to say in other threads I think the coaching has to improve as much or more than the roster, regarding both talent and execution, to achieve competitiveness. And that's the goal. Doesn't necessarily mean a SB even. Warner's last season w/ the Cards was a thing of greatness and I think over 10 games the Steelers and Cards would have split down the middle. And for all I know one or two other teams that year could have done the same. Let's be competitive...for awhile...at least :)

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/04/shanahan-says-hell-take-the-high-road-on-mcnabb-comments/]Shanahan says he’ll “take the high road” on McNabb comments | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8286a1a0/article/donovan-mcnabb-believes-hes-a-hall-of-famer]NFL.com news: Donovan McNabb believes he's a Hall of Famer[/url]

I had to share this for the lulz alone.


[quote]Kriegel started the discussion by saying there would be "no debate" whether or not McNabb was a Hall of Famer if he had a title. McNabb was asked what makes a Hall of Famer:

"First of all is his numbers. How many times has he led his team to the big game?" McNabb said "The big game still is the NFC Championship Game, [/quote]


Only McNabb would consider the NFC Championship as the "Big Game"....lol What a dope.

Re: Was McNabb misused in Minnesota also?
 

Me and my coworkers were listening to the Junkies on the way in this morning and they weren't being kind to him lol. Amazing. Nothing really needs to be said at this point, other than nobody likes people who toot their own horn. I agree with the Junkies on a specific point though, and that's the more McNabb opens his mouth, the less we think of him. He should just fade from the public light for a while.

[QUOTE=mooby;909825]Me and my coworkers were listening to the Junkies on the way in this morning and they weren't being kind to him lol. Amazing. Nothing really needs to be said at this point, other than nobody likes people who toot their own horn. I agree with the Junkies on a specific point though, and that's the more McNabb opens his mouth, the less we think of him. He should just fade from the public light for a while.[/QUOTE]

And even the people outside dc I think realize his comments are all sour grapes.