Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=Paintrain;908945] We should see our running game much more productive in terms of YPC and YPG even if Kyle stays with a 60-40 ratio (though likely it will be closer to 50-50 with a rookie QB).[/quote]We can only hope.
But I have my doubts.
The ratio was 60-40 with [I][B]Rex Grossman[/B][/I]; a clearly limited QB, athlete, passer and decision maker.
Short of knowing the system (which Kyle says is easy to learn) I can't think of 1 thing that Rex does anywhere close to as well as Griffin.
Giving a pass first OC like Kyle a gifted QB, athlete, passer and decision maker may probably won't bring more balance to the pass/run ratio.
But it sure as hell is gonna help the passing game and the offense at large to justify the imbalance.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=30gut;909038]I don't know how to answer those questions above.
But between Cam and Griffin I think Cam was the better prospect.
Cam is alot like Griffin except bigger.

That Auburn team net-net had less talent then the Baylor team.
o I can't recall any good draftable OL, the Panthers either drafted late or UDFA signed an Auburn OL but I doubt that happens without Cam.

o Cam's best receiver was Darvin Adams and IIRC Adams went undrafted?

o And Auburn was heavily dependent on Cam's ability to run the ball to generate and sustain there offense.[/quote]

Yeah, but Robert didn't have a good defense like Auburn did. Especially a player like Nick Fairley.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

Yeah but Warrern Sapp filed for bankruptcy.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[QUOTE=CrustyRedskin;909085]Yeah but Warrern Sapp filed for bankruptcy.[/QUOTE]



And that is how much impact has with our offense.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;909095]And that is how much impact has with our offense.[/quote]

Plenty, when you think about it. See you just gotta follow the train.

Warren Sapp = bankrupt.

Kyle Shanahan = son of Mike Shanahan.

Mike Shanahan = former Raiders coach.

Warren Sapp = used to play for the Raiders.

Probability of Mike Shanahan knowing Warren Sapp because of tight inner NFL circle/also based on Warren Sapp being in the media = high

How oh how can Mike and/or Kyle S. sleep at night and/or prepare this offense to be the best it could possibly be if Warren Sapp is bankrupt!?!

We're doomed! Doomed I tells ya!

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

Yeah but what about Antonio Cromartie.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;909113]Yeah but what about Antonio Cromartie.[/quote]

Easy.

Cromartie = has many children

Mike Shanahan = has at least one child.

It's a bond only parents share!

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

Cam Newton had a defense at Auburn.

RG3 although a dynamic QB, was in a sense Baylor's best defensive player because of how well he played on the offensive side of the ball.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=30gut;909038]I don't know how to answer those questions above.
But between Cam and Griffin I think Cam was the better prospect.
Cam is alot like Griffin except bigger.[/quote]

Mike Mayock and many other scouts disagree with you. RGIII and Cam were nothing alike in terms of a prospect other than they had speed.


The fact you have 1) Cam 2) RGIII 3) Luck rated as prospects tells me a lot...lol


You do realize Luck would have been the unquestioned #1 last year had he came out. Pretty much like he is this year.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=NC_Skins;909155]Mike Mayock and many other scouts disagree with you. RGIII and Cam were nothing alike in terms of a prospect other than they had speed.[/quote]I'mvery comfortable having a unpopular opinion.
And speed wasn't the aspect of their games that even consider similar but you wouldn't know what aspects I'm refering to because you didn't ask you just assumed.

[quote]The fact you have 1) Cam 2) RGIII 3) Luck rated as prospects tells me a lot...lol[/quote]That I form my own opinion? or That I'm right?
I take pride in the fact that I had this opinion [I][B]before[/B][/I] Cam's rookie season and feel quite validated by Cam's rookie season.

[quote]You do realize Luck would have been the unquestioned #1 last year had he came out. Pretty much like he is this year.[/quote]Maybe in the same draft media community that tried to sell Gabbert as a better prospect then Newton and Locker but Luck wouldn't have been the unquestioned #1 for me, the same as Gabbert was not a better prospect then Locker.
And you know what? I think my thoughts although unpopular at the time were right.

-Oh and I bet dollars to doughnuts Luck wouldn't have been higher on the Panther's board either.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=30gut;909158]-Oh and I bet dollars to doughnuts Luck wouldn't have been higher on the Panther's board either.[/quote]



LOLOLOLOL. Riiiigghht. Your opinion isn't just unpopular, it's unfounded. I don't look at McShay or Kiper to get a feel for a player so disregard any media hype.

I would bet you everything I own that the Panthers would trade Cam for Luck right now in a straight up trade.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=NC_Skins;909159]LOLOLOLOL. Riiiigghht. Your opinion isn't just unpopular, it's unfounded. I don't look at McShay or Kiper to get a feel for a player so disregard any media hype.[/quote]Okay.
Then where do you look Mayock? He also had Gabbert ahead of Cam and Locker was he correct?

Let me get this straight.
You realize that drafting a QB is basically a crap shoot.
The NFL hits about roughly 50% of the time.
Therefore whomever you're getting your information from is only right 50% yet my dissentings opinions like having Newton and Locker ahead of Gabbert.
Are laughable even though they proved correct?
Okay.

[quote]I would bet you everything I own that the Panthers would trade Cam for Luck right now in a straight up trade.[/quote]Its ironic that you claim to 'disregard media hype' yet you honestly believe your quote above is true.
You think that the Panthers would trade their record setting landslide rookie of the year franchise QB to take a 50-50 shot?
Sure.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=30gut;909161]Okay.
Then where do you look Mayock? He also had Gabbert ahead of Cam and Locker was he correct?[/quote]


He should of had Gabbert rated above Cam due to the character and off the field issues. You don't just rate a player based on his ability alone. Cam had character issues and questions about his intelligence, Gabbert didn't.


Same with RGIII. You don't see people questioning his work ethic and intelligence (aka...caught stealing/cheating)

I don't give a shit what kind of year Cam had, I without a doubt believe they would trade Cam for Luck in a heartbeat. I know I (and many others) would as well.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=30gut;909158]I'mvery comfortable having a unpopular opinion.
And speed wasn't the aspect of their games that even consider similar but you wouldn't know what aspects I'm refering to because you didn't ask you just assumed.

That I form my own opinion? or That I'm right?
I take pride in the fact that I had this opinion [I][B]before[/B][/I] Cam's rookie season and feel quite validated by Cam's rookie season.

Maybe in the same draft media community that tried to sell Gabbert as a better prospect then Newton and Locker but Luck wouldn't have been the unquestioned #1 for me, the same as Gabbert was not a better prospect then Locker.
And you know what? I think my thoughts although unpopular at the time were right.

-[B]Oh and I bet dollars to doughnuts Luck wouldn't have been higher on the Panther's board either.[/B][/quote]

I'll take that bet.

Panthers owner Jerry Richardson called Andrew Luck and asked him if it was the idea of playing for the panthers that made him return to college. Andrew said no I just want to finish school. Richardson said you would've been the pick.

Its pretty simple Luck is really good and already knows and has played in a pro style offense. Thats why he'd get picked over Cam last year and over RG3 this year.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=NC_Skins;909164]He should of had Gabbert rated above Cam due to the character and off the field issues. You don't just rate a player based on his ability alone. Cam had character issues and questions about his intelligence, Gabbert didn't.

Same with RGIII. You don't see people questioning his work ethic and intelligence (aka...caught stealing/cheating)

I don't give a shit what kind of year Cam had, I without a doubt believe they would trade Cam for Luck in a heartbeat. I know I (and many others) would as well.[/quote]Cam rookie season destroyed the misconceptions that exsisted about him pre-draft thus effectively proving the pre-draft analysis 'question marks' by 'people' invalid.
The mere fact that he was selected #1 overall proves that draft media and actual team scouts/execs/decision makers don't share the same opinions.

You can believe whatever you like and plunge your head as deep into the sand as you like.
But, you're not gonna be able to make Cam actual on the field production vanish simply because [quote=you]...don't give a shit what kind of year Cam had[/quote]
The draft media that you listen to were wrong and therefore you were wrong.
Cam proved you wrong, just deal with it and move on.

BTW-Here's what a media memeber that's a former actual team scout/exec that actually meet Cam and his family (i.e. actually did his research about Cam) said about him last year prior to draft:

[quote=Gil Brandt]Despite the big media splash over Newton’s comments last month about wanting to be an “icon and entertainer,” I have no doubt that Newton is much more grounded than people think. His stability has a lot to do with his family. And after visiting with his mother and father, who have been together for 25 years, I can see Newton has a great deal of stability.

The one thing most people will agree on is that Newton has a ton of talent, both as a passer and a natural athlete. The biggest concern is perhaps his lack of experience, having only played one season of major college football. But when you factor in his work habits and his character, the experience becomes less of a concern.[/quote]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81ef27fa/article/believe-the-hype-newton-has-intangibles-to-be-a-star]NFL.com news: Believe the hype: Newton has intangibles to be a star[/url]

You chose to believe whomever you chose to believe.
I believe people that actually know what the heck they're talking about.

-Cheers
I'm done unless you wanna talk about Griff?

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;909166]I'll take that bet.

Panthers owner Jerry Richardson called Andrew Luck and asked him if it was the idea of playing for the panthers that made him return to college. Andrew said no I just want to finish school. Richardson said you would've been the pick.

Its pretty simple Luck is really good and already knows and has played in a pro style offense. Thats why he'd get picked over Cam last year and over RG3 this year.[/quote]


[url=http://nfl-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/26955150]Casserly: Jerry Richardson called Andrew Luck - CBSSports.com[/url]


I'll take a fist full of dollars and a box of donuts please :)

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/page/NextLevel120416/odds-luck-robert-griffin-iii-becoming-great]2012 NFL draft: Odds against both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III becoming great - ESPN[/url]

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;909166]Its pretty simple Luck is really good and already knows and has played in a pro style offense. Thats why he'd get picked over Cam last year and over RG3 this year.[/quote]What areas do [I]you[/I] think Luck is better then Cam? Or what areas would you rate Luck higher then Cam?

On second thought you should probably PM or mix in Griffin to the conversation.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;909170][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/page/NextLevel120416/odds-luck-robert-griffin-iii-becoming-great]2012 NFL draft: Odds against both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III becoming great - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Makes me cringe too. There is a high probability that one of the two is going to be a "bust" in terms of equating his performance to where he is picked. All you can do is do your homework and hope for the best. I think both teams are getting a quality prospect and it wouldn't really be a surprise if both do very well in the NFL.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;909166]Panthers owner Jerry Richardson called Andrew Luck and asked him if it was the idea of playing for the panthers that made him return to college. Andrew said no I just want to finish school. Richardson said you would've been the pick.[/quote]Owners, execs, GM say a lot of things around draft time.
You can take them at their word f you choose, I don't.
The fact is that teams don't vet non-declared prospects to the same extent that they study draft eligible prospects.
To think that Richardson and the Panthers had already decided on taking Luck #1in January is kinda absurd from a scouting department standpoint.
The football season wasn't finished, the combine and pro days and team interviews were weeks away.
Their HC was what 1 day into the fold?
They hadn't even hired the OC yet.

[quote=CultBrennan59;909170][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/page/NextLevel120416/odds-luck-robert-griffin-iii-becoming-great]2012 NFL draft: Odds against both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III becoming great - ESPN[/url][/quote]Interesting anecdotal data but not very meaningful.
Its the same type of spurious psuedo statistical 'evidence' that causes people to question say things like: historically red headed QBs don't succeed in the NFL.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/16/deangelo-hall-raves-about-robert-griffin/]DeAngelo Hall raves about Robert Griffin | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=30gut;909175]Owners, execs, GM say a lot of things around draft time.
You can take them at their word f you choose, I don't.
The fact is that teams don't vet non-declared prospects to the same extent that they study draft eligible prospects.
To think that Richardson and the Panthers had already decided on taking Luck #1in January is kinda absurd from a scouting department standpoint.
The football season wasn't finished, the combine and pro days and team interviews were weeks away.
Their HC was what 1 day into the fold?
They hadn't even hired the OC yet.

Interesting anecdotal data but not very meaningful.
Its the same type of spurious psuedo statistical 'evidence' that causes people to question say things like: historically red headed QBs don't succeed in the NFL.[/quote]

Ok what do you want me to say. There is your proof that Richardson wanted him more than Cam. I remember them not starting to take Cam seriously as a candidate until about a month away from draft time. As great of a college season Cam had and as good of a rookie season Cam had he wasn't even known nor talked about until his 3rd game his junior year after being kicked off of florida and in community college. Luck has been talked about as the next great QB the highest grade for a QB or player for that matter, since Peyton Manning. Your saying you'd take Cam ahead of Luck before you even saw Cam play in the NFL? Thats great and crazy, and thats your opinion. This subject really shouldn't be touched until Luck has played a whole rookie year so we can see how good he will be and compared to Cam. It goes as potential. I'd take Luck over Griffin and Cam because of the known quality and potential. Sure Cam and RG3 have higher potential, because they didn't play in pro style offenses (or played one year like Cam), but when large amounts of scouts say Andrew is the next Peyton Manning, a QB who I believe is the best of all time, I'm going to take him over Cam and Robert.
[YT]e0Ic1k9tmUU[/YT]

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;909176][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/16/deangelo-hall-raves-about-robert-griffin/]DeAngelo Hall raves about Robert Griffin | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

I read that article. Hall is welcoming RG3 in with opened arms. Let's hope that Irsay selects Luck on April 26th.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=NC_Skins;909174]Makes me cringe too. There is a high probability that one of the two is going to be a "bust" in terms of equating his performance to where he is picked. All you can do is do your homework and hope for the best. I think both teams are getting a quality prospect and it wouldn't really be a surprise if both do very well in the NFL.[/quote]

It's unjust to compare Griffin or Luck to what's happened with other quarterbacks in the past. Very few of them were as good as these two are now entering the NFL. Period point blank- there's always going to be busts at QB. But there will always be quarterbacks who succeed.

Forget about percentages and what have you when it comes to Andre Ware, Donovan McNabb, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Tim Couch, JaMarcus Russell, or Matt Leinart. There are very good REASONS why some young quarterbacks succeed and very good REASONS why other young quarterbacks fail.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;909178]Ok what do you want me to say. There is your proof that Richardson wanted him more than Cam.[/quote]There is rumor according to Casserly that Richardson called Luck in January and said that he would have drafted Luck if he came out.
But on its face its at a minimum a half-truth because in January teams do not know who they are gonna draft yet because the draft evaluation process is in its infancy at that point for all the reason I mentioned in the previous thread never mind that Richardson isn't even an owner/GM like Jerruh Jones he's not the Panthers draft day decision maker.
I'm certain that Luck was a prospect they would have considered taking but no team not except maybe the Raiders would already have their mind made about who they're drafting in January.

[quote]I remember them not starting to take Cam seriously as a candidate until about a month away from draft time. As great of a college season Cam had and as good of a rookie season Cam had he wasn't even known nor talked about until his 3rd game his junior year after being kicked off of florida and in community college.[/quote]Who is them?
NFL teams were certainly looking at the film from Blinn JuCo where Cam won a national title.



[quote]Luck has been talked about as the next great QB the highest grade for a QB or player for that matter, since Peyton Manning. Your saying you'd take Cam ahead of Luck before you even saw Cam play in the NFL? Thats great and crazy, and thats your opinion.[/quote]Yes and its not as crazy as you think, especially in light of Cam's rookie season.

I'm not looking at the prospects based on hype or draft media group think.
I look at the prospect from the skills you can measure from actually watching them play: arm strength, timing, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking etc...

[quote]This subject really shouldn't be touched until Luck has played a whole rookie year so we can see how good he will be and compared to Cam. It goes as potential. I'd take Luck over Griffin and Cam because of the known quality and potential. Sure Cam and RG3 have higher potential, because they didn't play in pro style offenses (or played one year like Cam)[/quote]Well, we're comparing them as prospects without the benefit of Cam's rookie season.
But, even if you wait and compare their rookie years based on production and not talent do you really think RGIII (as much as I would love him too) or Luck are gonna have rookie season's that rival Cam's?

And you kinda contradict yourself above.
You say you would take Luck over Griff and Cam because of known quality and potential.
But (a) Cam at this stage is more of a known quantity then Luck
(b) you say in the very next sentence that Cam and Griff have higher potential
(c) Cam played more then 1 year of college football

[quote]but when large amounts of scouts say Andrew is the next Peyton Manning, a QB who I believe is the best of all time, I'm going to take him over Cam and Robert.[/quote]Again we don't know what scouts are saying because we don't have access to their knowledge.
Scouts, gms and team exec are rarely speak about their draft intel and when they do speak they're hardly ever forthright.
So I don't know where you get the idea that we know what scouts are saying.
We only 'know' what draft media are saying and keep in mind this is the same draft media that said Gabbert was better then Newton and Locker the same draft media that said that had Jimmy Clausen just behind or even ahead of Sam Bradford as a first talent the same draft media that considered UDFA Jevan Snead a draftable QB prospect with a high grade 1-3 round grade?

BTW-You never answered my question, and I'm not asking for the draft media opinion of Luck is the next Peyton Manning.
My question is what does Luck do better then Cam or Griff from a draftable NFL skillset comparison?

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=30gut;909188]There is rumor according to Casserly that Richardson called Luck in January and said that he would have drafted Luck if he came out.
But on its face its at a minimum a half-truth because in January teams do not know who they are gonna draft yet because the draft evaluation process is in its infancy at that point for all the reason I mentioned in the previous thread never mind that Richardson isn't even an owner/GM like Jerruh Jones he's not the Panthers draft day decision maker.
I'm certain that Luck was a prospect they would have considered taking but no team not except maybe the Raiders would already have their mind made about who they're drafting in January.

Who is them?
NFL teams were certainly looking at the film from Blinn JuCo where Cam won a national title.



Yes and its not as crazy as you think, especially in light of Cam's rookie season.

I'm not looking at the prospects based on hype or draft media group think.
I look at the prospect from the skills you can measure from actually watching them play: arm strength, timing, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking etc...

Well, we're comparing them as prospects without the benefit of Cam's rookie season.
But, even if you wait and compare their rookie years based on production and not talent do you really think RGIII (as much as I would love him too) or Luck are gonna have rookie season's that rival Cam's?

And you kinda contradict yourself above.
You say you would take Luck over Griff and Cam because of known quality and potential.
But (a) Cam at this stage is more of a known quantity then Luck
(b) you say in the very next sentence that Cam and Griff have higher potential
(c) Cam played more then 1 year of college football

Again we don't know what scouts are saying because we don't have access to their knowledge.
Scouts, gms and team exec are rarely speak about their draft intel and when they do speak they're hardly ever forthright.
So I don't know where you get the idea that we know what scouts are saying.
We only 'know' what draft media are saying and keep in mind this is the same draft media that said Gabbert was better then Newton and Locker the same draft media that said that had Jimmy Clausen just behind or even ahead of Sam Bradford as a first talent the same draft media that considered UDFA Jevan Snead a draftable QB prospect with a high grade 1-3 round grade?

BTW-You never answered my question, and I'm not asking for the draft media opinion of Luck is the next Peyton Manning.
My question is what does Luck do better then Cam or Griff from a draftable NFL skillset comparison?[/quote]

:doh:

I could bring Jerry Richardson to your door step telling you that he wanted to draft Andrew Luck over anyone else and you still would be denying it, and still would be all over Cam-Cam's nuts.

Cams a great QB, but the majority of football people are/were more on Andrew Luck than Cam ever was. Its that simple. We weren't talking about Cam Newton being the definite #1 pick from the start, middle, or end of his junior year like we were/have been about Andrew. Keep in mind, you and I are two guys on the internet giving our Opinions over who's better, when there are guys out there in the NFL, ESPN, NFL Network, etc who get paid for giving their opinion for a reason. And all those guys are still all about Luck. Even after Newton had his great rookie year, they said Cam's did great lets see how great Luck and RG3 are going to be. I agree, lets see.


Besides why are we fighting over two players comparisons, when neither of them will be Redskins...

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

We aren't even drafting RGIII so this is all a waste ! ;-)

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;909191]Cams a great QB, but the majority of football people are/were more on Andrew Luck than Cam ever was....Keep in mind, you and I are two guys on the internet giving our Opinions over who's better, when there are guys out there in the NFL, ESPN, NFL Network, etc who get paid for giving their opinion for a reason. And all those guys are still all about Luck. Even after Newton had his great rookie year, they said Cam's did great lets see how great Luck and RG3 are going to be. I agree, lets see.[/quote]I get the feeling your not even reading my post because you don't respond to any of the points I make and we're just going around in circles.
Here are my points:

(a) the 'majority of football people' are draft media talking heads [U]they are not scouts[/U]

(b) they draft media is wrong all the time therefore when you prop a player up based on there opinion you're just relying on the opinion of people who have been proven wrong time and time again as recently as last year

(c) [from watching your clip] even after Cam had a great rookie year [I][B]some[/B][/I] are saying that Luck is still better but [COLOR="Olive"]some are not as evident by the debate you posted 2 guys on the panel are actually making my point[/COLOR]. But that line of logic or rhetoric behind that debate is based on the persistence of an inaccurate/wrong headed evaluation that the same draft media made of Cam in the first place

And finally (for the 3rd time); since we are just 2 guys on the internet having a discussion why don't you tell me the areas [I][B]you[/B][/I] think Luck is better then Cam and Griff based on their NFL skillset? (instead of pushing the opinions of the often and recently wrong draft media?)...is it arm strength, timing, deep ball, pro-readiness, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;909170][URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/page/NextLevel120416/odds-luck-robert-griffin-iii-becoming-great"]2012 NFL draft: Odds against both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III becoming great - ESPN[/URL][/quote]

Odds are, this will more like the Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers year than the Heath Shuler/Trent Dilfer draft.

Look at that list, the talent of both QBs in any given year is not as high as Luck/Griffin. They're both legit #1 picks. Last year with Newton and Locker...there's no comparison, Cam is far more-talented than Locker.

I'm not worried. Besides, it's ESPN, they're not exactly optimists when it comes to our team.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

um, why are we wasting so much space arguing about QB's when we're going to be drafting blackmon?

signed,
Matt Millen

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=That Guy;909274]um, why are we wasting so much space arguing about QB's when we're going to be drafting blackmon?

signed,
Matt Millen[/quote]


Great 1. :laughing2

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=30gut;909195]I get the feeling your not even reading my post because you don't respond to any of the points I make and we're just going around in circles.
Here are my points:

(a) the 'majority of football people' are draft media talking heads [U]they are not scouts[/U]

(b) they draft media is wrong all the time therefore when you prop a player up based on there opinion you're just relying on the opinion of people who have been proven wrong time and time again as recently as last year

(c) [from watching your clip] even after Cam had a great rookie year [I][B]some[/B][/I] are saying that Luck is still better but [COLOR="Olive"]some are not as evident by the debate you posted 2 guys on the panel are actually making my point[/COLOR]. But that line of logic or rhetoric behind that debate is based on the persistence of an inaccurate/wrong headed evaluation that the same draft media made of Cam in the first place

And finally (for the 3rd time); since we are just 2 guys on the internet having a discussion why don't you tell me the areas [I][B]you[/B][/I] think Luck is better then Cam and Griff based on their NFL skillset? (instead of pushing the opinions of the often and recently wrong draft media?)...is it arm strength, timing, deep ball, pro-readiness, accuracy, efficiency, size, playmaking[/quote]

He definitely has Cam on pro-readiness hands down. I think he also has him on timing, accuracy, and efficiency. Cam did not play in a pro ready offense and had to adjust. Cam is more of an athlete, but Luck is more polished and pro-ready.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=Monkeydad;907623]Interesting article/analysis on RGIII. Never heard of the Lewin Career Forecast before, but Griffin just scored the highest mark EVER.

[B][U]Player Year LCF[/U][/B]
Robert Griffin 2012 2530
Philip Rivers 2004 2476
Drew Brees 2001 2190
Colt McCoy 2010 2092
Carson Palmer 2003 1973
Peyton Manning 1998 1784
Andrew Luck 2012 1749
Chad Pennington 2000 1678
Brady Quinn 2007 1518
Jason Campbell 2005 1506


[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2012/lewin-career-forecast-2012]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Lewin Career Forecast 2012[/url][/quote]

thats actually really impressive.
i wanna lock up Griffin so bad man i hate that the Colts pick before us.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

Do you think Irsay will drag the pick-out or announce it right away. I figure are pick should take about 2 seconds.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;909345]Do you think Irsay will drag the pick-out or announce it right away. I figure are pick should take about 2 seconds.[/quote]

i hope they sign him to a contract soon, so we know 100% we are getting mr. griffin

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

I would like to think the Colts would be working out a deal for Luck by now and have an agreement on a contract of some sort. In the past teams would come to a verbal agreement but they still waited until other players started signing contracts to see where the market was, but now its pretty much set so their really is no need to hold out and no need to avoid coming to an agreement prior to the draft.

Also even if the Colts are undecided one would have to think the snub RG3 gave the Colts for a meeting would have to be a small indicator that he does not want to be with you otherwise he would have made a point to visit them. He knows he's going either #1 or #2 so meeting with the two top teams would not have killed him. So if he doesn't want to be with you then there really is no need to draft him since you don't want an unhappy player when there was another player (Luck) just as good or in some peoples minds better who would love to be with the Colts.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

I have a co-worker who is like a kid in a candy shop over the Skins getting RG3 so when he gets all giddy and asks me if I'm excited over our #2 pick? I ask ... "who Luck"? or when he says "I can't wait to hear our future franchise QB named" I ask "Luck"? lol. I love getting under his skin. lol. I do remind him though there is the possibility the Colts take RG3. I do hate all the media attention he seems to be getting. I wish everyone would just stop trying to sell RG3 cause I am afraid the Colts will second guess themselves and take RG3 at the last second. Which does hold a little weight.

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;909347]i hope they sign him to a contract soon, so we know 100% we are getting mr. griffin[/quote]

Bubba, I agree with you. I would think that the Colts want their QB "in the fold" so to speak as quickly as they can for off season activities. With that being said, you would hope they are negotiating right now with Luck's agent and getting things worked out. But who knows with Irsay!

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

[quote=SBXVII;909356]I have a co-worker who is like a kid in a candy shop over the Skins getting RG3 so when he gets all giddy and asks me if I'm excited over our #2 pick? I ask ... "who Luck"? or when he says "I can't wait to hear our future franchise QB named" I ask "Luck"? lol. I love getting under his skin. lol. I do remind him though there is the possibility the Colts take RG3. I do hate all the media attention he seems to be getting. I wish everyone would just stop trying to sell RG3 cause I am afraid the Colts will second guess themselves and take RG3 at the last second. Which does hold a little weight.[/quote]

Well, I think most 'skins fans are hoping for RGIII, but I would not be upset in the least if the 'skins draft Andrew Luck. I just hope, for both teams, down the road when neither QB has the excuse of being rookies, we can say, "I'm glad we got THAT guy!"

Re: Griffin's Impact on our Offense
 

I finally got around to seeing Luck's QB camp last night and came away super impressed. If anyone would be truly disappointed if we got him, you're nuts.