Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=The Goat;911116]Hmmm mmmm.

For the Gaffney trade/cut to prove justifiable Garcon must (significantly) outperform himself up to this point in his career. He must break 1000+ yds, score 8+ TDs and contribute consistently. If he does not we have yet another major personnel gaffe by this FO.[/quote]

Idk about that, I'm not setting these high benchmarks for Garcon like you are. If Garcon's production matches or exceeds Gaffney's production, I think that makes it a win for us. What if Garcon put up the exact same stats as Gaffney last year, yet all of our other receivers/TE's put up better stats as a result of our new qb acquisition. Would you still call Garcon a failure then?

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

I don't know why you all are worried... we will have Jared Green. ;)

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=mooby;911121]Idk about that, I'm not setting these high benchmarks for Garcon like you are. If Garcon's production matches or exceeds Gaffney's production, I think that makes it a win for us. What if Garcon put up the exact same stats as Gaffney last year, yet all of our other receivers/TE's put up better stats as a result of our new qb acquisition. Would you still call Garcon a failure then?[/quote]I would be very happy if Garcon's numbers matched Gaffney's from last year. Would mean that we have a 27 year old reciever (in 2013) who led us (or was second) in receiving yards the prior season.

I would be even happier if that player was instead Hankerson.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=The Goat;911116]Hmmm mmmm.

For the Gaffney trade/cut to prove justifiable Garcon must (significantly) outperform himself up to this point in his career. He must break 1000+ yds, score 8+ TDs and contribute consistently. If he does not we have yet another major personnel gaffe by this FO.[/quote]

Why 1000 and 8 TDs?

I don't think his yards and TDs alone will determine whether he was a good move or not. We'll have to look a little deeper than that.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

I think the big thing with Gaffney's game is this: did he have a memorable/significant catch or in general, just a beast game last year? Im not talking about just a big catch for a first down...he is consistent which is still a need for a team, but he doesnt bring a highlight

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=Chico23231;911161]I think the big thing with Gaffney's game is this: did he have a memorable/significant catch or in general, just a beast game last year? Im not talking about just a big catch for a first down...he is consistent which is still a need for a team, but he doesnt bring a highlight[/quote]

aka zero YAC

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=Mattyk;911158]Why 1000 and 8 TDs?

I don't think his yards and TDs alone will determine whether he was a good move or not. We'll have to look a little deeper than that.[/quote]

The opportunity cost of Garcon's contract is substantial such that he must outperform what we already have (Gaffney or a healthy Hankerson) to justify the signing.

Look at it this way: we could have passed on Garcon and done all the following

- Kept Moss, Gaffney, Hankerson and added Morgan
- And had dollars to further bolster the oline to protect Griffin
- Added another vet WR after cuts for a fraction of the Garcon contract or even waited till next season to draft/sign another

The opportunity cost of Garcon's contract is oline and edging out a solid vet starter who already knows the system. If Garcon doesn't outperform himself, and therefore Gaffney, over last season the signing isn't a win for the franchise.

If the oline struggles, especially at RT and/or LG because the FO didn't bolster it the Garcon signing is yet another needless, head-scratching gaffe.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

I just hope Shananan knows what he's doing by letting Gaffney go. I've never heard of a WR starting for 16 games and leading your team in receptions, reception yards, and then becoming trade bait.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=mooby;911121]Idk about that, I'm not setting these high benchmarks for Garcon like you are. If Garcon's production matches or exceeds Gaffney's production, I think that makes it a win for us. What if Garcon put up the exact same stats as Gaffney last year, yet all of our other receivers/TE's put up better stats as a result of our new qb acquisition. [B]Would you still call Garcon a failure then[/B]?[/quote]

Indeed.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

I think the team needed a "playmaking" WR. Who's a more cap-friendly WR signing that would be as good as Garcon? You'll never know. Gaffney or his agent may have questioned his role after Morgan and Garcon were signed. Gaffney may still end up with the Skins. IMO there were no better options as far as giving a rookie QB (which the team had to trade much for) WRs to compliment his talents.

In regards to the OL, the current guys will have to step it up regardless of who else is brought in or not. That's not far-fetched.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=The Goat;911192][B]The opportunity cost of Garcon's contract is substantial such that he must outperform what we already have (Gaffney or a healthy Hankerson) to justify the signing.[/B]

Look at it this way: we could have passed on Garcon and done all the following

- Kept Moss, Gaffney, Hankerson and added Morgan
- And had dollars to further bolster the oline to protect Griffin
- Added another vet WR after cuts for a fraction of the Garcon contract or even waited till next season to draft/sign another

The opportunity cost of Garcon's contract is oline and edging out a solid vet starter who already knows the system. If Garcon doesn't outperform himself, and therefore Gaffney, over last season the signing isn't a win for the franchise.

If the oline struggles, especially at RT and/or LG because the FO didn't bolster it the Garcon signing is yet another needless, head-scratching gaffe.[/quote]I essentially agree with the bolded part and pretty much the entire post.

Garcon has more than just one season to match Gaffney's numbers though. The signing won't be graded on just his 2012 production, except in a case where he is so lost in 2012 that he loses his starting job.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;911208]I just hope Shananan knows what he's doing by letting Gaffney go. I've never heard of a WR starting for 16 games and leading your team in receptions, reception yards, and then becoming trade bait.[/quote]

How about guys like Randy Moss or Terrell Owens who both went from hero to goat overnight, with multiple teams no less. Or even Coles when he was here, led the team in receiving in 2003 and 2004, traded in 2005.

Gaffney's "accomplishments" should be looked at with a grain of salt, considering his numbers would have been much different if Davis wasn't suspended. And is 68-947-5 really anything to get excited about?

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=GTripp0012;911222]I essentially agree with the bolded part and pretty much the entire post.

Garcon has more than just one season to match Gaffney's numbers though. [B]The signing won't be graded on just his 2012 production, except in a case where he is so lost in 2012 that he loses his starting job[/B].[/quote]

I thought about this too. My counter-argument is WR talent could be more readily available next year, either through FA or draft. In fact, there will likely be a WR superior to Garcon within our grasp next season, who would replace/compete with Gaffney for 2013. It still holds true the total grade of the Garcon signing goes beyond this season, but 2012 is the main criterion.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=Mattyk;911224]Gaffney's "accomplishments" should be looked at with a grain of salt, considering his numbers would have been much different if Davis wasn't suspended. And is 68-947-5 really anything to get excited about?[/quote]At his age, probably not. But it would have suggested that he would have provided good value (i.e. a similar season next year) if he played out his contract.

I don't think the point was that we couldn't get that production somewhere else ever again (though I'm skeptical re: Garcon), I think it was that the Redskins looked at the opportunities the Z receiver got last year, saw 68-947-5, and thought "that has to be better if we're going to be a winning team."

They might be right on that. I'm certainly not willing to go on record saying that their wrong. But I will say that we've seen no aptitude to correct the biggest problems of this team in the past two years (RB + QB selection, pass defense, offensive line) UNTIL they traded more to get RG3 than any player in the draft before.

So when the Redskins look at Gaffney's numbers (68-947-5) and see a position that's underachieving (on a 5-11 team, mind you), what I'm I supposed to see first: that the Shanahan's are way ahead of the curve, addressing an issue before it becomes obvious and painful? Or that this is the Redskins just chasing ghosts after misidentifying the problem?

Both are possible, and it's a matter of perspective. I just tend to lean away from the idea that the Shanahans can see and fix issues, otherwise, I think they would have won more than 11 games in two seasons.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=The Goat;911226]I thought about this too. My counter-argument is WR talent could be more readily available next year, either through FA or draft. In fact, there will likely be a WR superior to Garcon within our grasp next season, who would replace/compete with Gaffney for 2013. It still holds true the total grade of the Garcon signing goes beyond this season, but 2012 is the main criterion.[/quote]I agree with you. I also think this is going to be a pretty defense-heavy draft after RG3. And that the Garcon signing was really the team's attempt to grab one of those draft picks they traded for Griffin back.

What I don't think people are accounting for is that the bust rate for Garcon with the Redskins is about what a first round receiver (like Rueben Randle or Stephen Hill) would be if they had a late first round pick to spend on one. But the cost of failure here is a lot worse because of the guaranteed money.

That there would have been a WR superior Garcon available in next year's draft (or this years draft) is a point of agreement. I just think that after the RG3 trade, the Redskins made the conscious decision not to wait for him.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=Mattyk;911224]How about guys like Randy Moss or Terrell Owens who both went from hero to goat overnight, with multiple teams no less. Or even Coles when he was here, led the team in receiving in 2003 and 2004, traded in 2005.

Gaffney's "accomplishments" should be looked at with a grain of salt, considering his numbers would have been much different if Davis wasn't suspended. And is 68-947-5 really anything to get excited about?[/quote]

The entire offense was off track all year because of the horrible quarterback play. Anyways, Gaffney isn't a elite WR. He's average but he's a respectable veteran. You mention Terrell Owens and Randy Moss. They are both way past their primes but when they were in their primes they still scared NFL secondaries.

It's too bad Gaffney has to go.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

Next time I plan at looking at this thread I better see news of him being traded.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;911294]Next time I plan at looking at this thread I better see news of him being traded.[/quote]

All you do is complain.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

He's still bitter about Brennan's release.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/mike-shanahan-says-jabar-gaffney-could-remain-with-redskins/2012/04/25/gIQAJtFIhT_blog.html]Mike Shanahan says Jabar Gaffney could remain with Redskins - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Now Mike Shanahan is saying that there's a chance that Jabar Gaffney could stay in Washington. Mike Shanahan micro manages so much that it seems that he confuses his own self.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=donofriose;911352]All you do is complain.[/quote]

I love how someone who's only been here for 3 months has figured this out. lol. I love you already. Marry me.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;911690]I love how someone who's only been here for 3 months has figured this out. lol. I love you already. Marry me.[/quote]
LOL....you do have a way of getting to the point. You and donofriose......

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;911688][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/mike-shanahan-says-jabar-gaffney-could-remain-with-redskins/2012/04/25/gIQAJtFIhT_blog.html]Mike Shanahan says Jabar Gaffney could remain with Redskins - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Now Mike Shanahan is saying that there's a chance that Jabar Gaffney could stay in Washington. Mike Shanahan micro manages so much that it seems that he confuses his own self.[/quote]

He never said he wasn't welcome here, he's just giving him a chance to feel out his options.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

If the coaches feel that trading Gaffney is better for him because his playing time would be limited then Gaffney should see what's out there.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

I guess this is maybe a possible hint at us drafting yet another WR? Or is it just to gain cap space for another FA? If it is for another FA acquisition I hope it is a LB or an offensive linemen.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

There's been a lot of talk about the Redskins drafting an offensive lineman, namely a right tackle lately. Mike Shanahan recently gave Jamaal Brown a vote of confidence and stated that he feels better about Jamaal Brown in the two years Brown's been in Washington. He also gave props to Tyler Polumbus. While drafting a right tackle/offensive lineman seems likely at this juncture, don't be surprised if Shanahan feels confident enough with what's already on the roster.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;911690]I love how someone who's only been here for 3 months has figured this out. lol. I love you already. Marry me.[/quote]

Is it time to request a matchmaker engine for the Warpath? AAHHHHHH...SNAP girlfriend!

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

Has it been asked- why the Skins didnt include Gaffney in the trade to get the #2 pick?
I really wish we still had a 2nd rounder and the Rams desperately need a WR.

To think Gaff would result in a 6-7 round pick is crazy. What does that mean for AAA? Shanahan clearly doesn't like him.

It seems Aldrick Robinson, Niles Paul were wasted picks and probably Austin will replace Banks.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=SkinsHulk;911869]Has it been asked- why the Skins didnt include Gaffney in the trade to get the #2 pick?

It seems Aldrick Robinson, Niles Paul were wasted picks and probably Austin will replace Banks.[/quote]


Because the Rams didn't want him? I believe the only person talked about in that deal was Orakpo.


Robinson and Niles Paul is a wasted pick? A bit too soon to be saying anything of the sort.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911873]Because the Rams didn't want him? I believe the only person talked about in that deal was Orakpo.


[B]Robinson and Niles Paul is a wasted pick? A bit too soon to be saying anything of the sort[/B].[/quote]

true, making the team alone as a 5th or 6th rounder is an accomplishment & beating the odds. Paul contributed a lot last year, good pick IMO. Robinson is a project; his odds aren't good but that's why you accumulate picks, you can try to develop guys like him for little cost.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

Gaffney instead of the #2 pick? C'mon now.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;911873]Because the Rams didn't want him? I believe the only person talked about in that deal was Orakpo.


Robinson and Niles Paul is a wasted pick? A bit too soon to be saying anything of the sort.[/QUOTE]

Early- sure but I'm speculating on this...

What is the team going to do with Cooley? Does Paul make the roster for his WR/TE potential? I haven't even seen him as a TE but it sounds horrible. Last year he showed he can play special teams and can hold a block against a CB. 2nd year so he could be a PSquad right?

Robinson appeared in the last game and did nothing. That's not saying he couldn't step in but it's almost a given he will never work be a starter.

This team really doesn't draft WR successfully. Yeah I'm still pissed we took Devin Thomas/Malcolm- even Davis at the time but that's sort of worked out subtracting his herb use.
And theres talk of using a 5th to draft another WR? IMO we have the WR we need already. I'd be fine with Garçon,Moss, Hank(injured),Morgan, Austin or AAA w/ an option for Paul if needed.
Banks is obsolete with kickoff rules now and Robinson will have to fight for his life for a spot and is PSquad bound.
Like last years draft, I see more glaring holes/need to fill them ( That's what she said). Idk, I hope Allen/Shanny see it my way.
Happy RG3 day

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=Mattyk;911884]Gaffney instead of the #2 pick? C'mon now.[/quote]

No way Jose!
I'm saying we should have included Gaff in the deal so we could of kept our 2nd rounder. I'm saying again we overpaid for that #2- when we have Gaff that could be traded for dirt when obviously he has more value than that. Idk, if he was considered/offered at the time. Hindsight just shows we have more to give and maybe that 2nd rounder could have yielded RB doug Martin.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

No way St. Louis would take Gaffney over a 2nd rounder.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=SkinsHulk;911897]No way Jose!
I'm saying we should have included Gaff in the deal so we could of kept our 2nd rounder. I'm saying again we overpaid for that #2- when we have Gaff that could be traded for dirt when obviously he has more value than that. Idk, if he was considered/offered at the time. Hindsight just shows we have more to give and maybe that 2nd rounder could have yielded RB doug Martin.[/quote]

I meant 2nd rounder, no way Gaffney is worth that.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=SkinsHulk;911897]No way Jose!
I'm saying we should have included Gaff in the deal so we could of kept our 2nd rounder. I'm saying again we overpaid for that #2- when we have Gaff that could be traded for dirt when obviously he has more value than that. Idk, if he was considered/offered at the time. Hindsight just shows we have more to give and maybe that 2nd rounder could have yielded RB doug Martin.[/quote]

The problem is that including Gaffney in a deal for the #2 pick is like including a banana in a deal for a Mercedes. The price knockdown is minimal.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=Lotus;911926]The problem is that including Gaffney in a deal for the #2 pick is like including a banana in a deal for a Mercedes. The price knockdown is minimal.[/quote]

Kudos for not using "ham sandwich".

So tired of that one.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

Will Jabar Gaffney stay or will he go? That is the question.

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;912036]Will Jabar Gaffney stay or will he go? That is the question.[/quote]

Glad you're back, Captain Obvious, we've missed your presence around here.

I'm putting my money on "go."

Re: Jabar Gaffney Told to Seek A Trade
 

[quote=mooby;912047]Glad you're back, Captain Obvious, we've missed your presence around here.

I'm putting my money on "go."[/quote]

I've been around. I never left. But I'm wondering if Allen and Shanahan have a deal in place in conjunction with trading Gaffney for a draft pick. Just the other day Mike Shanahan said that Gaffney could remain with the Redskins.