Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

It's like no one cares about Lotus and the fact that his favorite Redskin's career is just about over. Godspeed Jonathan Crompton...

Well you all know I've beating the "We need two young QBs" drum for a couple of years now. I wish we hadn't given up as much for RGIII, but we kind of had to.

And as much as people loathe Rex Grossman on the field, I wouldn't just dismiss what it means to have him on the roster. He's a veteran who knows this offense, is a great locker room guy, and best of all, has no qualms about working with young QBs who obviously (hopefully) will keep him on the bench. He'll be a good influence for both RGIII and Cousins.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=Paintrain;914019]Look guys, this won't be a QB competition or controversy. [B]There's no way on earth, heaven and hell that Cousins will be competing for the starting job or even enough meaningful snaps in practice that it will be a glimmer of a discussion. [/B] We drafted our starting QB for the next decade at #2 overall. We drafted his long term backup in the 4th round. It's that clear. Everything else is media pollution.

Best case-Cousins never sees the field and we have a long term backup in place.
Next best case-RGIII misses some time and Cousins fills in adequately and a trade market develops.
Mid best case-RGIII misses some time and Cousins fills in just well enough to cast his lot as a career backup and stays here long term.
Mid worst case-RGIII struggles with effectiveness or injury and Cousins isn't very good or is just good enough to spark a controversy.
Worst case-RGIII struggles with effectiveness or injury and Cousins sucks so we are back to square one.

3 out of those 5 scenarios leave us in a good position out of this draft strategy.[/quote]

Now there's an intelligent comment!

The question isn't whether Cousins will start. The question is, "How is Cousins going to get enough reps to develop?"

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=SmootSmack;914022]It's like no one cares about Lotus and the fact that his favorite Redskin's career is just about over. [B]Godspeed Jonathan Crompton...
[/B]
Well you all know I've beating the "We need two young QBs" drum for a couple of years now. I wish we hadn't given up as much for RGIII, but we kind of had to.

And as much as people loathe Rex Grossman on the field, I wouldn't just dismiss what it means to have him on the roster. He's a veteran who knows this offense, is a great locker room guy, and best of all, has no qualms about working with young QBs who obviously (hopefully) will keep him on the bench. He'll be a good influence for both RGIII and Cousins.[/quote]

Crompton would have been an All-Pro but he was ruined by Spurrier.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=#56fanatic;914021]I think that is a totally different situation. That 7th round QB may be lucky to make the team. Cousins was viewed by many as a potential starter in the NFL. For a team to draft two starting QB's, especially after giving up so much to get one of them, it is a bit of a head scratcher[/quote]

The fact that he went 4th round shows that teams viewed him as a backup, at least to start his career. Griffin was drafted as a starting QB, Cousins was not.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=Lotus;914026]Now there's an intelligent comment!

The question isn't whether Cousins will start. The question is, "How is Cousins going to get enough reps to develop?"[/quote]

Well that comment was to quell the 'QB controversy' talk. He will get the same reps any backup QB gets, plus as 3rd string he will get all of the scout team snaps in practice so he'll get more snaps than Grossman once the season starts. Even as a backup he'd never see the field (barring catastrophe) until 2013 anyways.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=#56fanatic;914021]I think that is a totally different situation. That 7th round QB may be lucky to make the team. Cousins was viewed by many as a potential starter in the NFL. For a team to draft [B]two starting QB's[/B], especially after giving up so much to get one of them, it is a bit of a head scratcher[/quote]

:eek:

:doh:

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=Lotus;914026]Now there's an intelligent comment!

The question isn't whether Cousins will start. The question is, "How is Cousins going to get enough reps to develop?"[/quote]

Cousins isnt going to start but I think he will need to be ready to play 2 or 3 games per season because I cant see RGIII being durable enough to make it through 16 games each season.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

Adam Shefter just reported that the Redskins rated Cousins as the number 3 QB and in time they "will look to deal him".

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

If you have the opportunity to grab two potentially starting QB in one draft, it's kind of a know brainer. How many QBs played 16 games last year? Anyone?

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=12thMan;914042]Adam Shefter just reported that the Redskins rated Cousins as the number 3 QB and in time they "will look to deal him".[/quote]

"Just reported"? They were talking about that all weekend. And let's not make it sound like this summer they'll look to deal him. They're hoping he can develop into a solid QB over the next three years or so to the point that he could possibly be moved for picks, if he's not here

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=SmootSmack;914045]"Just reported"? They were talking about that all weekend. And let's not make it sound like this summer they'll look to deal him. They're hoping he can develop into a solid QB over the next three years or so to the point that he could possibly be moved for picks, if he's not here[/quote]

Man that would be so sweet. I'd love to develop a solid QB farm system like New England and Philly.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

I'm just relaying what I saw/read.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=12thMan;914044]If you have the opportunity to grab two potentially starting QB in one draft, it's kind of a know brainer. How many QBs played 16 games last year? Anyone?[/quote]

I thought it was a know brainer too. Who no's where he'll end up in a few years.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=mooby;914054]I thought it was a know brainer too. Who no's where he'll end up in a few years.[/quote]

Sorry for jumping into the conversation, I was just being knowsy.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

A QB controversy doesn't have to acutally exsist for the perception of a controversy to exsist.

Media is media.
As soon as Cousins looks better then Griffin in any drill, any practice, and 7-on-7 never mind a preseason game media will run with it.
And that's how it will start.
That's all it takes during training camp/offseason.
But once the season starts Griffin will light it up and the controversey will be forgetten unless Griffin gets injured or struggles.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

My knowse smelled a good deal when we grabbed Cousins.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

I personally thought it was a good draft pick for several reasons. I also thought the Redskins had one of the better drafts in-- not only 2012, but also in 2011. No one really knows until they step on the football (including the redskins).

It's all very interesting too - how this qb issue is so polaring to fans and NFL analysts alike.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

I don't understand using our 4th round pick to address an area that can only provide benefit in the future as opposed to drafting a player that could provide benefit this season and in the future.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

Suppose there's actually a one in a million chance that RGIII is a bust. Well we got the one percent covered with Cousins.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=30gut;914063]I don't understand using our 4th round pick to address an area that can only provide benefit in the future as opposed to drafting a player that could provide benefit this season and in the future.[/quote]


There's a couple of ways just off the top of my head that it helps for this season - he immediately brings in some insight that Rex Grossman and John Beck couldn't provide at the qb position. And he definitely provides much more confidence and depth at the the qb spot.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

The thing with Cousins that I don't like is the negative media publicity we get.


I like that we get griffin and let him know "Hey your the guy, but remember you're still competing with the young and the old, this isn't just Given to you."

Hopefully Cousins looks like Matt Flynn in Preseason and we can get a future 3rd or 2nd for him.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

... which is the most impactful position on the field.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=30gut;914063]I don't understand using our 4th round pick to address an area that can only provide benefit in the future as opposed to drafting a player that could provide benefit this season and in the future.[/quote]

Aren't most fourth round picks considered developmental for the future instead of likely present contributors?

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=warriorzpath;914067]There's a couple of ways just off the top of my head that it helps for this season - he immediately brings in some insight that Rex Grossman and John Beck couldn't provide at the qb position. And he definitely provides much more confidence and depth at the the qb spot.[/quote]
I'm not sure what you mean by insight, but Grossman undoubtedly knows the offense better then Cousins.
And maybe Cousins does bring more confidence, I'm hoping he can win the back-up spot outright and become the back-up as a rookie like Tyrod Taylor did last year.

But, I'm refering to actual on the field contributions either through offense, defense or special teams as a rotational or depth player.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=Lotus;914026]Now there's an intelligent comment!

The question isn't whether Cousins will start. The question is, "How is Cousins going to get enough reps to develop?"[/quote]

Win the backup job from Rex Grossman.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=Lotus;914072]Aren't most fourth round picks considered developmental for the future instead of likely present contributors?[/quote]Yes, but that doesn't mean they can't provide rookie year impact through offense, defense or special teams as rotational or depth players ala Perry Riley, Helu, Royster, Maurice Hurt, Chris Nield etc..

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;914068][B]The thing with Cousins that I don't like is the negative media publicity we get. [/B]


I like that we get griffin and let him know "Hey your the guy, but remember you're still competing with the young and the old, this isn't just Given to you."

Hopefully Cousins looks like Matt Flynn in Preseason and we can get a future 3rd or 2nd for him.[/quote]

Why do you care? Hatters gonna hat.. Media gonna be media so let them talk.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=Lotus;914072]Aren't most fourth round picks considered developmental for the future instead of likely present contributors?[/quote]

Yeah, it was kind of funny to me how Tedy Bruschi is arguing that this was a luxury pick up because 4th rounders are usually for contributors at Special Teams and depth. And for team like the Redskins, they can't afford to use that pick for a qb. I'll give him the Special Teams contribution, but doesn't Cousins provide depth at the most important position - which solidifies the quarterback position for the redskins, a position that was arguably the weakest?

Then Bruschi turns around and praises the eagles for picking up depth at the qb position with Nick Foles... I don't get it. I guess it's a luxury that an 8-8 team can afford and not a 5-11 team that could have easily won 3 more games if the qb play was better.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

IMO, since this is still a rebuilding year, we can afford to sacrifice the present for the future. 8-8 is the same as 6-10 in terms of not making the playoffs.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;914086]IMO, since this is still a rebuilding year, we can afford to sacrifice the present for the future. 8-8 is the same as 6-10 in terms of not making the playoffs.[/quote]That's the most compelling angle I've heard yet.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=30gut;914076]I'm not sure what you mean by insight, but Grossman undoubtedly knows the offense better then Cousins.
And maybe Cousins does bring more confidence, I'm hoping he can win the back-up spot outright and become the back-up as a rookie like Tyrod Taylor did last year.

But, I'm refering to actual on the field contributions either through offense, defense or special teams as a rotational or depth player.[/quote]

Going by the analysis by the ESPN experts, one insight that he provides that Grossman doesn't is progressions. And he also reportedly is the type that speaks up to help and contribute to the team. This will all help on the field and the team as soon as he starts working with the team.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=warriorzpath;914085]Yeah, it was kind of funny to me how Tedy Bruschi is arguing that this was a luxury pick up because 4th rounders are usually for contributors at Special Teams and depth. And for team like the Redskins, they can't afford to use that pick for a qb. I'll give him the Special Teams contribution, but doesn't Cousins provide depth at the most important position - which solidifies the quarterback position for the redskins, a position that was arguably the weakest?

Then Bruschi turns around and praises the eagles for picking up depth at the qb position with Nick Foles... I don't get it. I guess it's a luxury that an 8-8 team can afford and not a 5-11 team that could have easily won 3 more games if the qb play was better.[/quote]

Plus Foles was a 3rd rd pick.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;914085]Yeah, it was kind of funny to me how Tedy Bruschi is arguing that this was a luxury pick up because 4th rounders are usually for contributors at Special Teams and depth. And for team like the Redskins, they can't afford to use that pick for a qb. I'll give him the Special Teams contribution, but doesn't Cousins provide depth at the most important position - which solidifies the quarterback position for the redskins, a position that was arguably the weakest?



Then Bruschi turns around and praises the eagles for picking up depth at the qb position with Nick Foles... I don't get it. I guess it's a luxury that an 8-8 team can afford and not a 5-11 team that could have easily won 3 more games if the qb play was better.[/QUOTE]



Can't fix stupid.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=warriorzpath;914085]Yeah, it was kind of funny to me how Tedy Bruschi is arguing that this was a luxury pick up because 4th rounders are usually for contributors at Special Teams and depth. And for team like the Redskins, they can't afford to use that pick for a qb. I'll give him the Special Teams contribution, but doesn't Cousins provide depth at the most important position - which solidifies the quarterback position for the redskins, a position that was arguably the weakest?

Then Bruschi turns around and praises the eagles for picking up depth at the qb position with Nick Foles... I don't get it. I guess it's a luxury that an 8-8 team can afford and not a 5-11 team that could have easily won 3 more games if the qb play was better.[/quote]

Quite frankly, I think the majority of fans and media still are unconsciously operating under the schema that the Redskins can't do anything right. Hence, they pick out the negatives of our moves. Until we show them A LOT otherwise, this is the treatment we'll get.

And I remember they were pimping the Eagles' pick of Macho Harris and well, we know how that turned out in the end.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=warriorzpath;914088]Going by the analysis by the ESPN experts, one insight that he provides that Grossman doesn't is progressions. And he also reportedly is the type that speaks up to help and contribute to the team. This will all help on the field and the team as soon as he starts working with the team.[/quote]I'm not sure what they said on ESPN but I disagree that Cousin provides more insight on pass progressions he hasn't even run compared to Rex who's been in the is offense for 3 years. (this is coming from someone that loathes Wrecks mind you)
Also, Griffin is the QB leader of this team.
I'm not saying Cousins isn't a leader but his leadership only matters when he's undercenter, the 3rd string QB isn't a leader.

And again, I was refering to actual on the field contributions.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;914095]Quite frankly, I think the majority of fans and media still are unconsciously operating under the schema that the Redskins can't do anything right. Hence, they pick out the negatives of our moves. Until we show them A LOT otherwise, this is the treatment we'll get.

And I remember they were pimping the Eagles' pick of Macho Harris and well, we know how that turned out in the end.[/quote]

Yes, all of the above. It will just be a wait and see for now. But I can't wait until the redskins suit up against another team. I have a good feeling, but I've had a good feeling in other seasons too. Like I said, we'll see.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

I love that we got Cousins but in fairness you can't compare drafting a QB in the 3rd round to learn under a 31 year old "brittle veteran" to drafting a QB in the 4th to learn under a 22 year old phenom you just moved multiple high round picks for. They're two totally different situations.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=30gut;914096]I'm not sure what they said on ESPN but I disagree that [B]Cousin provides more insight on pass progressions he hasn't even run compared to Rex who's been in the is offense for 3 years[/B]. (this is coming from someone that loathes Wrecks mind you)
Also, Griffin is the QB leader of this team.
I'm not saying Cousins isn't a leader but his leadership only matters when he's undercenter, the 3rd string QB isn't a leader.

And again, I was refering to actual on the field contributions.[/quote]

Oh my... I don't think I can discuss this with you anymore with what you just said about Rex and his pass progressions being better - even with his familiarity within this offense, but manages to automatically throw 2 interceptions per game. His pass progressions are the worst of any veteran in the league. He's good Rex bad Rex for a reason - if the play goes as expected it's good Rex, if something doesn't go well on a particular play - it's bad Rex.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

[quote=SmootSmack;914099]I love that we got Cousins but in fairness you can't compare drafting a QB in the 3rd round to learn under a 31 year old "brittle veteran" to drafting a QB in the 4th to learn under a 22 year old phenom you just moved multiple high round picks for. They're two totally different situations.[/quote]

Comparisons or not -- bottomline - drafting Cousins made the Redskins team better.

Re: Kirk Cousins pick 4.7
 

And I'm hoping that Cousins improves enough to become the backup as the season goes along. Rex was nice to re-sign because he has familiarity with the system and he hopefully speeds up the learning by RGIII and Cousins, but I don't trust Gross Rexman, even as a backup.