Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

I hope so, we havent had good safety play since Sean Taylor which has felt like a long time.

As a miami grad and lifelong skins fan he was my guy. Wear my number 21 every sunday ( sometimes my 44 :)). God needed a safety.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=Schneed10;933253]Same here. Trouble is if you don't get pressure on the QB just by rushing 4, then you give the opposing QB and WRs plenty of time to get open against our bum secondary. [B]Orakpo and Kerrigan[/B] are so key for us. If they can get pressure without having to send the house, then the LBs can drop into a zone and take away the underneath outlets, while the QB won't have time to go deep over our bum secondary.

But if we have to send the house to get pressure, we're in trouble. It's all up to Orakpo and Kerrigan (and the D Line) to hide the secondary problems.[/quote]

They play a major part in the pass rush but the inside guys need to step it up as well. I think we have a good defense, but I'm not sure I see one that can dominate.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=Ruhskins;933123]Because of our poor offense, the Redskins have typically not being able to take advantage of turnovers. However, you are correct...when Hall whiffs, he whiffs big time. And he also can't tackle, yet somehow he ends up 2nd or 3rd in team tackles (at least way back).[/quote]

D Hall must be given some credit for putting his helmet in opposing ball carriers chests in the last two years. He has gotten alot more physical than he used to be. I would say he went from a below average tackler to an average tackler. He had a fairly good year (or alot better than previous years) last year. I'm not afraid to give him a little credit for getting a bit more physical.

This year, I expect him to be more improved as a tackler than last year. I guess they plan on putting him on the slot receiver some this year, due to Barnes inability to line up on the inside. With Hall being closer to the ball, I could see him snag a few more INT's this year as well. And with him playing under the umbrella, and closer to the line of scrimmage a little more frequently, he should have more tackles as opposed to previous years as well.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=The Goat;933310]...and?[/quote]

..and we don't need 3 threads on the same subject...

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=Chico23231;933330]I hope so, we havent had good safety play since Sean Taylor which has felt like a long time.[/quote]

A safety like Sean comes along once every 100 years. Very few safeties in the NFL can play the way Sean played.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

Madieu Williams plays (great) like a veteran in practice but, looks old come game time. He shouldn't make the final 53.

[QUOTE=REDSKINS4ever;933476]A safety like Sean comes along once every 100 years. Very few safeties in the NFL can play the way Sean played.[/QUOTE]

Yeah when people talk about difference making safeties only a few come to mind.

Lott
Reed
Woodson
Taylor
Atwater

For me

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;933686]Yeah when people talk about difference making safeties only a few come to mind.

Lott
Reed
Woodson
Taylor
Atwater

For me[/QUOTE]

ummmmm, Ken Houston anyone???

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;933686]Yeah when people talk about difference making safeties only a few come to mind.

Lott
Reed
Woodson
Taylor
Atwater

For me[/QUOTE]

Polamalu.....

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

Our secondary still sucks. :(

Hall gambles too much, Wilson is average. Our depth looks bad.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=HailGreen28;933693]Our secondary still sucks. :(

Hall gambles too much, Wilson is average. Our depth looks bad.[/quote]

I think our secondary will still be better than it was last year. Thought Wilson and Tarnard Jax played great today. D Hall wasnt bad either...Crawford, Gomes are young and shown some promise.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=Chico23231;933694]I think our secondary will still be better than it was last year. Thought Wilson and Tarnard Jax played great today. D Hall wasnt bad either...Crawford, Gomes are young and shown some promise.[/quote]Hope you're right. Hail!

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=Chico23231;933694]I think our secondary will still be better than it was last year. Thought Wilson and Tarnard Jax played great today. D Hall wasnt bad either...Crawford, Gomes are young and shown some promise.[/quote]

Thought Jackson had a good game and maybe the best safety play we have seen all preseason. The nickel corner concerns me and so does the safety position. Can Jax play the free spot with BM playing SS?

Williams and Griffin I think we can all agree are liabilities on the field.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;933720]Thought Jackson had a good game and maybe the best safety play we have seen all preseason. The nickel corner concerns me and so does the safety position. Can Jax play the free spot with BM playing SS?

Williams and Griffin I think we can all agree are liabilities on the field.[/quote]

yeah, Jax at fs and BM at SS I think will be the starting safeties vs NO.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=Mechanix544;933358]D Hall must be given some credit for putting his helmet in opposing ball carriers chests in the last two years. He has gotten alot more physical than he used to be. I would say he went from a below average tackler to an average tackler. He had a fairly good year (or alot better than previous years) last year. I'm not afraid to give him a little credit for getting a bit more physical..[/quote]


I still have this image burned into my head.

[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/2wqahqr.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=The Goat;928528]Here, here let the wisdom of the Lotus be heard. Just as some of us have said RGIII and the WRs can compensate for struggles across the oline, a defensive front seven can compensate for a struggling secondary. I thought of the Giants but the Pats are a good example as well.

And Morris' coaching is a major positive for the secondary. He will find ways to cover up his group's weakness, the question is to what extent...[/quote]

And the Giants were dead last in Rushing. Saints D had issues, so did the Packers. The Niners and Ravens were probably the most complete teams, but every team has holes. The panic over the O line and secondary seems a little over the top. Skins won 5 games with a QB who turned the ball over 26 times and lost his starting job to a guy fighting for his life to be the third string QB in Houston this year.

All that matters this year is whether or not we found our franchise QB. The O line is plenty good. It may not be the best in the league, but Beck and Rex were hardly running for their lives last year and we ran the ball well, especially late in the season when our backups were playing. RG3 will have every opportunity to succeed.

[QUOTE=punch it in;933692]Polamalu.....[/QUOTE]

Yes

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;933726]Yes[/QUOTE]

And actually there are some old school safeties that are rated still as the greatest of all time. Problem with every greatest poll is people vote according to what they have seen in their lifetime. Even 80 greatest redskins. I love lavar but please. Over our long history he is not one of the 80 greatest.

[QUOTE=punch it in;933744]And actually there are some old school safeties that are rated still as the greatest of all time. Problem with every greatest poll is people vote according to what they have seen in their lifetime. Even 80 greatest redskins. I love lavar but please. Over our long history he is not one of the 80 greatest.[/QUOTE]

I agree I'm only 25 so I'm still a young pup when it comes to greatest players but I def respect the history

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;933690]ummmmm, Ken Houston anyone???[/quote]

Now there's a smart comment. Ken Houston kicked ass. I'll never forget his tackle of Walt Garrison just short of the goal line, thus preserving a victory over Dall-ass.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;933690]ummmmm, Ken Houston anyone???[/quote]

Ken Houston was a beast. All the man did was break up passes and intercept them.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

I'm not surprised -- Shanahan has been a huge disappointment as a coach (11W 21L, two straight last place finishes in the NFC East, and 0-3 on QBs not counting RG3). Aside from Trent Williams he has done nothing for the OL, not developed a decent run game, and has a secondary that was shredded by Jay Cutler and Andrew Luck in back to back games.

This is venting to some extent but the Redskins finished 12th in the league in Passing yards allowed and 13th in overall defense. Not spectacular but pretty decent for an otherwise shitty team -- so of course he took one of the few strengths and made it a glaring weakness.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=Mechanix544;933358]D Hall must be given some credit for putting his helmet in opposing ball carriers chests in the last two years. He has gotten alot more physical than he used to be. I would say he went from a below average tackler to an average tackler. He had a fairly good year (or alot better than previous years) last year. I'm not afraid to give him a little credit for getting a bit more physical.

This year, I expect him to be more improved as a tackler than last year. I guess they plan on putting him on the slot receiver some this year, due to Barnes inability to line up on the inside. With Hall being closer to the ball, I could see him snag a few more INT's this year as well. And with him playing under the umbrella, and closer to the line of scrimmage a little more frequently, he should have more tackles as opposed to previous years as well.[/quote]

Regarding Hall's tackling, here's two words for you: Rob Gronkowski. By the way, Hall also missed an easy tackle last night. He doesn't like to tackle, he doesn't want to tackle, he often makes pathetically weak attempts to tackle, and sometimes he avoids tackling altogether (as in the case of Rob G.).

On this team, which is weak at the CB position, moving Hall inside only exposes another corner who can't cover on the outside. I think the Skins are in need of one more capable NFL CB to shore up the defensive secondary.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;933759]I'm not surprised -- Shanahan has been a huge disappointment as a coach (11W 21L, two straight last place finishes in the NFC East, and 0-3 on QBs not counting RG3). Aside from Trent Williams he has done nothing for the OL, not developed a decent run game, and has a secondary that was shredded by Jay Cutler and Andrew Luck in back to back games.

This is venting to some extent but the Redskins finished 12th in the league in Passing yards allowed and 13th in overall defense. Not spectacular but pretty decent for an otherwise shitty team -- so of course he took one of the few strengths and made it a glaring weakness.[/quote]I beg to differ, even if it is a little homerish.

His predecessors Zorn and Vinny, inherited a team that was built by Gibbs, breakeven W/L but was making the playoffs every other year. Shanny inherited a team built by Vinny, a team that fell apart halfway thru year 1 and never recovered the next year like Gibbs' teams did.

Shanny dumped Jason Campbell and Stephon Heyer. That's two pretty good upgrades bringing in anyone decent. I think Luck did worse against our secondary than others (due to our pass rush, sure).

But the biggest problem with our secondary getting worse was Carlos getting an attitude and leaving and Springs/Smoot getting old. Shanny's trying to upgrade those positions but he's rightfully concentrating on our lines more. We've had a lot more draft picks and transition on OL than Vinny, for a new ZBS that takes time. And look at our front on D.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

Remember when Shanny had no choice but to roster Joey Galloway? Or when Lorenzo Alexander had to start? Or when our offensive line was full of aging broken down vets?

Shanny hasn't only created depth at every position (outside of the corners), he's managed to bring in one of the better QB prospects we've ever seen. It's refreshing to see a slow and methodical approach from our GM/Coach.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

Some posts are so moronic they don't deserve any response...and I think we have a winner in this thread

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

To that eventuality.....I offer no response.
or the horse he road in on..

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;933759]I'm not surprised -- Shanahan has been a huge disappointment as a coach (11W 21L, two straight last place finishes in the NFC East, and 0-3 on QBs not counting RG3). Aside from Trent Williams he has done nothing for the OL, not developed a decent run game, and has a secondary that was shredded by Jay Cutler and Andrew Luck in back to back games.

This is venting to some extent but the Redskins finished 12th in the league in Passing yards allowed and 13th in overall defense. Not spectacular but pretty decent for an otherwise shitty team -- so of course he took one of the few strengths and made it a glaring weakness.[/quote]

Wow.

Look, sometimes with fans the optimism overlooks reality -- but after reading this post, it's clear you got up on the wrong side of the bed. I just hope you remember this post next year when we're competing deep in the playoffs.

1) Records mean nothing, we were rebuilding the past two years. Honestly I'm glad we finished poorly last year -- to grab RG3. Evaluating Shanahan will only come in 2 years --> if RG3 succeeds, we will be good for 10-15 years.

2) Our O-line was one of the oldest in the league, you can't replace it overnight & convert to a zone blocking scheme. I think I saw a stat that we've drafted the most O-linemen over the past 2-3 years. Still deficient but I think they'll surprise this year if healthy. Last game Morris ran for 100 yards & RG3 had no sacks -- against a poor D, but hard to complain. Our depth seems stronger than in past. Remember Rhinehart? Heyer?

3) Yes, our secondary sucks, Cutler killed us and Luck exposed us. We will likely struggle in pass D this year. Raheem Morris could help, but I hope we can pick up a shut down corner to a back loaded contract next year and draft young talent. Talib could be a high risk-high reward acquisition. If Crawford & Chase have as much talent as hype they'll help as well as depth.


Honestly, we're not there yet, but with RG3 I think for the first time over the past 15-20 years, I have real hope for the future. Hope he proves my trust in him.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=SmootSmack;933852]Some posts are so moronic they don't deserve any response...and I think we have a winner in this thread[/quote]

I think that's unfair, and kinda lame from a moderator if I may be so bold.

Much of the post was simple and undeniable fact e.g. Mike has produced two last place finishes, and that is the bottom line in pro football, winning.

We all hope this is the year things turnaround.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=The Goat;933977]I think that's unfair, and kinda lame from a moderator if I may be so bold.

Much of the post was simple and undeniable fact e.g. Mike has produced two last place finishes, and that is the bottom line in pro football, winning.

We all hope this is the year things turnaround.[/quote]

Well this is a thread about the secondary, so I'm not sure why the inaccurate bashing of the oline (even the running game) was necessary.

Am I suppose to commend all posts because I'm a moderator?

Isnt that like reverse prejudice agsinst mods? Lol. They should be able to have their opinions too. Were all big boys here. Maybe its just because i am fresh off of ES but that didnt seem so bad. Anyway rite now we are smack dab in the middle of the turnaround. On one side the team is younger, we "supposedly" have a franchise qb, and as opposed to almost everything but tight end being a glaring weakness two years ago, we now have two. O line ( which has atleast two or three working parts, and some young - maybe potential starters in the wings), and secondary. Which imo is dead in the water. Hey like i said two years ago our wr's, rb's, dline, and qb were all dead in the water too. On the flip side we all like to say Shanny is rebuilding , but a loss is a loss is a loss is not a win! To say your happy about losing cus we grabbed rg3 is - well ridiculous. Of course now that is the easy take on it but come on. I mean if you look at Shannys record since Mr Elway walked away it is NOT GOOD. We are at a Crossroads rite now. One foot still in the bad and one foot in the good. Were gonna take another step forward or another step backward - stay tuned.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

Mods have every right to express opinions. My gripe is calling a post moronic. There are some really, really lousy posts. There are posts that don't make any sense, and authors who habitually post nonsense. But the one in question was "full" of facts compared to most posts I read. Even when I read the same nonsense over and over I just wouldn't feel good about calling it moronic...easier to just stick him/her on my ignore list and enjoy this board all the more.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

Clever use of quotations around "full" in '"full" of facts'

How about instead of moronic, I say "inaccurate" that better?

I think the post in question was very "negative" and "one - sided". Sort of hit on all the "bad" aspects and not the " good". I dont know if i would call them facts or innacurate either because i think its all opinion. No rite or wrong. Like i said we are at a crossroads - looking behind (which is something concrete ) is going to produce negative comments as well it should. Looking forward ( which is all wishful thinking to be fair ) should produce positive comments. I mean i think shanallen had a hell of a mess to clean up. Age - lack of picks - no depth. Were on our way boys. Original comment was a tad bit on the overly negative and embittered into oblivion side. Lol.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=SmootSmack;933987]Clever use of quotations around "full" in '"full" of facts'

How about instead of moronic, I say "inaccurate" that better?[/quote]

That's more polite :)

Maybe it's the election (nastiness) making me want civility more than usual lol

Its been several years now since Sean Taylor was murdered and ill be damned if he isnt going to be more missed now than ever before. God could we use his presence in the backfield about now. Im still very optimistic about this regime and snyders silence. That is something nobody wants to give credit to shanallen for - where the hell has mr snyder gone?!?

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

The secondary has played a little suspect this preseason. The defensive linemen and the linebackers have played better than the defensive backs. Hall and Wilson have played well. Crawford the rookie has been a pleasant surprise. But the problem might be the safeties. I would prefer a tandem of Tanard Jackson and possibly Gomes or Doughty as this year's starting safeties. Doughty gives up big play at times as he showed in the first game against the NYG last season. Jackson plays tenaciously when he wants to. I'm still not sure about Brandon Meriweather though. I would prefer him as a reserve.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

Is there a specific post that people are referring to as moronic or inaccurate? I'm confused.

Re: Secondary a Primary Concern
 

[quote=GTripp0012;934043]Is there a specific post that people are referring to as moronic or inaccurate? I'm confused.[/quote]

Yeah, but we should probably just move on