Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Skinzman;946304]The problem with this line of thinking is that Walsh only won with Montana, Noll only won with Bradshaw, Jimmy Johnson only won with Aikman, Belichik only won with Brady, ect... The list goes on. And a lot of people believe that those teams could have won as constructed with a lot of other coaches at the helm.

If the point is that Joe Gibbs was a great coach because of 3 SB's with 3 different QB' and RB's, then im with you 100%.

If the point is that the only coaches who are considered good coaches have to have won SB's with high schoolers to prove that they can outcoach the other sideline. Under that scenario, there is no such thing as a good coach, they are all terrible.

I dont believe the problem is Shanny the coach. I believe the problem is Shanny the GM. Its easy to look outcoached when other teams are more talented than yours. I figured it would take several years after Vinny left office to make up for his mistakes, but its year 3, and we still have massive holes all over the place. Allen needs to have that final say on player acquisition imo.[/quote]

Gibbs success with three different QBs most definitely puts him in a whole nuther category IMHO. I mean this is something football fans, not just skins fans, recognize.

Some of the other SB coaches you mentioned are decent comparisons to Shanahan, but most are not. Belichick for example built the Patriots into the perennial contender they are. Shanahan did not do so with the Broncos, period. He walked into his QB, defense, and to the best of my memory all those stars except for Davis.

We agree Shanahan is a lousy GM/talent evaluator. But I don't see anything telling me he's a great coach. In fact, I don't see any great coaching on this team. Without RG3 we'd be a 2 or 3 win team IMHO, so you could say Shanny has actually regressed this team from the one he inherited. His defense is grossly inferior to the one he inherited. That defense needed updating to be sure, but it was consistently stingy on points. A little boring? Sure, turnovers are fun. But it gave the offense a great chance to win most games. In addition, Mike and his kiddo can't develop a starting caliber OT to save their lives, or more accurately their QBs life. Trent is pretty much at the same level as he was when drafted. The other OTs are garbage, just garbage. And a lot of this has to do with preparation from what I can tell.

My bottom line is I don't see Mike coaching a winning team again. Give him the Niners or the Ravens today and they go 7-9.

Off rant.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

Right now cleveland d> our d ..... joe hayden> any of our corners ... love that former gator..
clevrland O line > our o line ...

I think ee would struggle against clevrland.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=los panda;946254]my dad grew up in orlando before their were any fl teams. the browns games were broadcast most, how could you now be a fan of jim brown? so he's a die-hard browns fan. i call them my 2nd favorite team. i'm always pulling for them, they've been wallowing in the muck (of avarice - according to jake the snake) since byner got stripped.

they had a good draft this year, have several solid pieces, things are looking up. i'm just glad i picked them last night[/quote]

Id rather be the 30th most valuable team in revenue, and the number one most valuable team in playoff and superbowl wins. who gives a shit about net worth of your franchise. That might mean something in baseball, not in this sport.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Mechanix544;946335]Id rather be the 30th most valuable team in revenue, and the number one most valuable team in playoff and superbowl wins. who gives a shit about net worth of your franchise. That might mean something in baseball, not in this sport.[/quote]

Agreed. It's not like we get a share of the revenue, we do get to enjoy the wins though.

HTTR!

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Skinzman;946304]The problem with this line of thinking is that Walsh only won with Montana, Noll only won with Bradshaw, Jimmy Johnson only won with Aikman, Belichik only won with Brady, ect... The list goes on. And a lot of people believe that those teams could have won as constructed with a lot of other coaches at the helm.

If the point is that Joe Gibbs was a great coach because of 3 SB's with 3 different QB' and RB's, then im with you 100%.

If the point is that the only coaches who are considered good coaches have to have won SB's with high schoolers to prove that they can outcoach the other sideline. Under that scenario, there is no such thing as a good coach, they are all terrible.

I dont believe the problem is Shanny the coach. I believe the problem is Shanny the GM. Its easy to look outcoached when other teams are more talented than yours. I figured it would take several years after Vinny left office to make up for his mistakes, but its year 3, and we still have massive holes all over the place. Allen needs to have that final say on player acquisition imo.[/quote]

Some might say Gibbs should have never returned to DC to coach the second time, but completely different circumstances.

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls, yes. Those 2 super bowls with a STUD qb like Elway. After Elway, he ran the Broncos organization in the ground. Not so bad the first 2 or 3 years after Elway, but then they REALLY started to go downhill. I lived in Colorado Springs at the time. I heard the talk radio around there. Noone thought Shanahan deserved the job after 2004. He completely screwed that defense. He has shown nothing but the same tendencies here, and I just hope that our stud QB can do everything in his power to get us to a superbowl in spite of a HC and OC that prefers to have him run a dozen designed runs a game against linebackers that eat glass for breakfast. I really hope his plan is better than that, cause Griffin is the ONLY reason we were even competitive in any of the games this year. I doubt anyone will attribute any of our success to any schemes or gameplan. I just hope the young fella stays healthy.

[QUOTE=Mechanix544;946338]Some might say Gibbs should have never returned to DC to coach the second time, but completely different circumstances.

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls, yes. Those 2 super bowls with a STUD qb like Elway. After Elway, he ran the Broncos organization in the ground. Not so bad the first 2 or 3 years after Elway, but then they REALLY started to go downhill. I lived in Colorado Springs at the time. I heard the talk radio around there. Noone thought Shanahan deserved the job after 2004. He completely screwed that defense. He has shown nothing but the same tendencies here, and I just hope that our stud QB can do everything in his power to get us to a superbowl in spite of a HC and OC that prefers to have him run a dozen designed runs a game against linebackers that eat glass for breakfast. I really hope his plan is better than that, cause Griffin is the ONLY reason we were even competitive in any of the games this year. I doubt anyone will attribute any of our success to any schemes or gameplan. I just hope the young fella stays healthy.[/QUOTE]

Gibbs went to the playoffs twice. Shanny hasnt even sniffed em yet.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

I think it's a bit unfair to assume Elway, Yoing, Plummer, Griese, Cutler, etc had success in spite of Shanahan. And it's too early to write off the young OL talent we just drafted this year. And how much better do you expect TW to be than when he was drafted? He wasn't exactly drafted as a developmental prospect. And are we just going to overlook all the Browns flaws? And why are we even talking about the Redkins vs Browns yet anyway?

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

And people have to stop acting like all RG3 has done and all he will do is run. And stop putting the blame in Mike and Kyle when the offense is struggling yet not give them an iota of credit when the offense is successful. And don't botch about our coaches not playing to their players' strengths and then whine when they do.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=punch it in;946339]Gibbs went to the playoffs twice. Shanny hasnt even sniffed em yet.[/quote]

Thats my point m8. Some people say he made a mistake coming back. But he had a break in service, and still came back and took a rag tag team to the playoffs. Shanny hasn't been to the playoffs, in what, 9 years???????

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Mechanix544;946338]Some might say Gibbs should have never returned to DC to coach the second time, but completely different circumstances.

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls, yes. Those 2 super bowls with a STUD qb like Elway. After Elway, he ran the Broncos organization in the ground. Not so bad the first 2 or 3 years after Elway, but then they REALLY started to go downhill. I lived in Colorado Springs at the time. I heard the talk radio around there. Noone thought Shanahan deserved the job after 2004. He completely screwed that defense. He has shown nothing but the same tendencies here, and I just hope that our stud QB can do everything in his power to get us to a superbowl in spite of a HC and OC that prefers to have him run a dozen designed runs a game against linebackers that eat glass for breakfast. I really hope his plan is better than that, cause Griffin is the ONLY reason we were even competitive in any of the games this year. I doubt anyone will attribute any of our success to any schemes or gameplan. I just hope the young fella stays healthy.[/quote]

If its about winning without a stud qb, then Brian Billick is the greatest coach ever. Although you removed the "wrong" from Joe Gibbs return line, what does that have to do with my point.

As for Denver going downhill after Elway, was Shanny the GM there as well. If so, thats why they went down, not because of Shanny the coach. He took Jake the snake and made him into a pro bowler. Jake Plummer was a terrible QB.

Elway leaves, they drop from SB champ to 6-10. Then go on to have several 10 win seasons including a 13 win season. He had two losing seasons in Denver, one of those following a massive 2 SB hangover AND losing a STUD QB. If losing a STUD QB such as Elway, then rebuilding that 6-10 team into a 13 win team at one point means he ran it into the ground, then what exactly do you call a good coach? When the expectation is 21 undefeated seasons and 14 SB's IN A ROW, such as Denver fans expected after 2 with Elway, of course they are going to complain about a 13 win season that doesnt end in a SB victory. Would you as a Redskin fan complain right now over a 13 win season and a playoff run? I say yes, because taking a team that had lost 10 games a couple of season before and turning them into a 13 win team is apparently your definition of running them into the ground.

Oh btw, that 13 win season, was in 05'. Ya know, the year that Broncos fans say Shanny should have never been there. 04' 10-6, 03' 10-6. So Shanny went 10-6, 10-6, 13-3 in consecutive seasons. And then you use these 3 seasons as absolute undeniable proof of the Broncos being ran into the ground... Really?

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=SmootSmack;946342]And people have to stop acting like all RG3 has done and all he will do is run. And stop putting the blame in Mike and Kyle when the offense is struggling yet not give them an iota of credit when the offense is successful. And don't botch about our coaches not playing to their players' strengths and then whine when they do.[/quote]

You want to go along and have blind faith in a guy that was 47-17 with Elway, and then barely .500 without, and had one of the leagues worst defenses for going on 5 years his last seasons in Denver, go right ahead. I thought baseball was the only sport that gave jobs and big contracts for past performances, I guess I was wrong, because Shanahan did absolutely NOTHING in his last 10 years with the Broncos to warrant his hire (one playoff victory). I want to have faith in Shanahan, and I try to, but I believe that there are better people, or should I say better coaches out there than him, and ones that would do a better job. Not saying that I have all the answers, but I believe that there are many people that could be doing a much better job than he is. Sucks that its gonna take 4 or 5 years of below .500 football to figure out that RG3 might have been the only good decision he made during his tenure in Washington.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Skinzman;946347]If its about winning without a stud qb, then Brian Billick is the greatest coach ever. Although you removed the "wrong" from Joe Gibbs return line, what does that have to do with my point.

As for Denver going downhill after Elway, was Shanny the GM there as well. If so, thats why they went down, not because of Shanny the coach. He took Jake the snake and made him into a pro bowler. Jake Plummer was a terrible QB.

Elway leaves, they drop from SB champ to 6-10. Then go on to have several 10 win seasons including a 13 win season. He had two losing seasons in Denver, one of those following a massive 2 SB hangover AND losing a STUD QB. If losing a STUD QB such as Elway, then rebuilding that 6-10 team into a 13 win team at one point means he ran it into the ground, then what exactly do you call a good coach? When the expectation is 21 undefeated seasons and 14 SB's IN A ROW, such as Denver fans expected after 2 with Elway, of course they are going to complain about a 13 win season that doesnt end in a SB victory. Would you as a Redskin fan complain right now over a 13 win season and a playoff run? I say yes, because taking a team that had lost 10 games a couple of season before and turning them into a 13 win team is apparently your definition of running them into the ground.

Oh btw, that 13 win season, was in 05'. Ya know, the year that Broncos fans say Shanny should have never been there. 04' 10-6, 03' 10-6. So Shanny went 10-6, 10-6, 13-3 in consecutive seasons. And then you use these 3 seasons as absolute undeniable proof of the Broncos being ran into the ground... Really?[/quote]

The guy was 1-4 in the playoffs after Elway. He did NOTHING during a very long stretch. And he had some of the worst defenses in the league during his tenure. Joe Gibbs won twice as many victories in his short time back than SHanahan did in, what, 10 or 11 years with a program that HE built? Sorry, your not gonna tell me because Shanahan was not the GM, that he didn't make the personell decisions in Denver. I lived there, and the guy had the last word, every Bronco fan knew it. Its just he couldn't do squat with the team that he himself built, and after 3 years here, name something other than RG3 that he has accomplished.

I guess there is Larry Johnson and OJ Atogwe.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Mechanix544;946349]The guy was 1-4 in the playoffs after Elway. He did NOTHING during a very long stretch. And he had some of the worst defenses in the league during his tenure. Joe Gibbs won twice as many victories in his short time back than SHanahan did in, what, 10 or 11 years with a program that HE built? Sorry, your not gonna tell me because Shanahan was not the GM, that he didn't make the personell decisions in Denver. I lived there, and the guy had the last word, every Bronco fan knew it. Its just he couldn't do squat with the team that he himself built, and after 3 years here, name something other than RG3 that he has accomplished.

I guess there is Larry Johnson and OJ Atogwe.[/quote]

Learn to read... I asked if he was the GM, and went onto state that if he was, that was the problem.

So try again after you reread what I typed because even though you quoted me, you didnt respond to what I had typed.

Editing to add: Stud qb... bad defenses... Kinda sounds like Belichik the last few years ;)

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

Is it some......other Skins team putting up 30+ points a game?
The same team, avg like.....16-18 a game last year?
....just sayin'

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

Really, the only thing he's accomplished here is adding RG3? This conversation just got pointless.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Skinzman;946350]Learn to read... I asked if he was the GM, and went onto state that if he was, that was the problem.

So try again after you reread what I typed because even though you quoted me, you didnt respond to what I had typed.[/quote]

You claimed that the GM in Denver was the problem, not Shanahan. At least that was the tone I got from it. All Denver personell decisions were Shanahans, and you cannot argue otherwise, cause it just ain't true m8. I dont care if there was a GM there, every player on that squad had the Mike Shanahan seal of approval.

Just think of it like this. Okay, the Broncos were like 6 games over .500 for 11 seasons after Elway left. Okay, great.

But the fact is that the Redskins won more playoff games than the Broncos did during that stretch. That is pathetic. I think the cowgirls did as well. Again, pathetic. THE RAIDERS won 5 playoff games during that span. Mike shanahan only had 3 appearances..........

I just think that people give him a little more credit than he is due.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Mechanix544;946354]You claimed that the GM in Denver was the problem, not Shanahan. At least that was the tone I got from it. All Denver personell decisions were Shanahans, and you cannot argue otherwise, cause it just ain't true m8. I dont care if there was a GM there, every player on that squad had the Mike Shanahan seal of approval.

Just think of it like this. Okay, the Broncos were like 6 games over .500 for 11 seasons after Elway left. Okay, great.

But the fact is that the Redskins won more playoff games than the Broncos did during that stretch. That is pathetic. I think the cowgirls did as well. Again, pathetic. THE RAIDERS won 5 playoff games during that span. Mike shanahan only had 3 appearances..........

I just think that people give him a little more credit than he is due.[/quote]

was Shanny the GM there as well. If so, thats why they went down, not because of Shanny the coach

The above is the exact line I typed. How do you claim that that line puts the blame on everyone but Shanny?

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=SmootSmack;946353]Really, the only thing he's accomplished here is adding RG3? This conversation just got pointless.[/quote]

Okay, so what else has he accomplished????? Turning our top 10 defense into the worst in the league? The fact is that in 2009, we won 6 games, more than shanahan has won during 3 years here, and that was with a shit roster that is exlusively thought of as a travesty that needed fixing. He has done no better in the time with which he has coached here, and that is sad.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

The point is that he IS to blame, even though he wasn't the GM in title, all player acquisitions and roster moves were of HIS doing. Point is that he is doing the same thing here. I understand that Bruce Allen is the new GM, but I think its safe to say that Shanahan has more say in player moves than he does.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

Yeah forget we don't have any talented youth anywhere else on the roster. Slipped my mind we have no other players beside RG3 to build with

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=SmootSmack;946360]Yeah forget we don't have any talented youth anywhere else on the roster. Slipped my mind we have no other players beside RG3 to build with[/quote]

yeah I agree Smoot. Not even sure why im defending Shanny when he has made such stupid moves as trading down for Kerrigan and not drafting Gabbert, then passing on RG3 since we would already have a stud QB in Gabbert. Terrible moves. Name one GM in this league that wouldnt actually trade Kerrigan and RG3 straight up for Gabbert. In fact, Im not trading Gabbert for those two unless a couple of first rounders are also added in. Dont know what Shanny was thinking there.

/Sarcasm

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

Every team has nice pieces, even the Browns and raiders do. Touting his first round picks as reason to be optimistic, well, okay, but i'd say the percentage of him drafting a good player in that round is fairly high. He did pick up Alfred Morris though, so I will give him that. And Hankerson looks ok, but his drafting record here at the skins isn't glorious by any means, and of course he can't miss on all of them. Hiring Haslett as DC, was that a good move? Its putting those few pieces that he does have together and building a winner that counts, and sorry, but other than RG3, I don't think this squad is any closer to a perennial contender than we were 3 years ago. It hasn't shown in the win loss column, thats for sure, and like i've said before, when are you all going to get tired of, "next year is our year, thats when we will really see progress." BTW, the Arizona cardinals are doing fairly well, and noone thought they were going to do squat before the season. NOONE. Shanahan, I'm afraid to say, is looking more and more like a has been that is coaching off of credentials from over a decade ago, sorry to say.

Its not that I don't want him to be good, its just that he's not.

ONE PLAYOFF WIN IN 12 years.....................optimistic? Hardly.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Skinzman;946363]yeah I agree Smoot. Not even sure why im defending Shanny when he has made such stupid moves as trading down for Kerrigan and not drafting Gabbert, then passing on RG3 since we would already have a stud QB in Gabbert. Terrible moves. Name one GM in this league that wouldnt actually trade Kerrigan and RG3 straight up for Gabbert. In fact, Im not trading Gabbert for those two unless a couple of first rounders are also added in. Dont know what Shanny was thinking there.

/Sarcasm[/quote]why are you lumping kerrigan and griff together in your trade for gabbert scenario?

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

Are we really having this "Shanahan sucks" debate again? Really? The same guys would be complaining if Bellicheat was here.

Everyone just get on the Browns band wagon.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

Wait did someone just call Gabbert a stud qb? If he's a stud qb I can't even imagine what RG3 is.

Off topic, yet on-topic for the title of this thread. [URL="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Jerry-Jones-Dallas-Cowboys-Americas-Joke-football-distractions-092812/"]Hating on the Cowboys[/URL] never gets old. Now Cowboys fans will have no excuse for always getting their panties in a wad, when they can just buy new ones at the stadium.

Just listening to NFL radio today Browns fans sure have a different view of things than you guys that's for sure.

Maybe I'm reading their 0-4 record wrong or something.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;946372]Are we really having this "Shanahan sucks" debate again? Really? The same guys would be complaining if Bellicheat was here.[/QUOTE]

Im not trying to drive shanny out of town but his record is what it is. Wins and losses are all that matter. I hope that rg3 is the start of good things i hope we win 10 games this year and next year challenge for bigger things But lets just say he wins five this year and oh six next year? Than is it ok to debate how good he is? I mean at what point do things have to translate to w's. Other teams have turned things around a hell of alot faster.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=mooby;946375]Wait did someone just call Gabbert a stud qb? If he's a stud qb I can't even imagine what RG3 is.

Off topic, yet on-topic for the title of this thread. [URL="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Jerry-Jones-Dallas-Cowboys-Americas-Joke-football-distractions-092812/"]Hating on the Cowboys[/URL] never gets old. Now Cowboys fans will have no excuse for always getting their panties in a wad, when they can just buy new ones at the stadium.[/quote]

I believe someone did, Gabbert is a BUST.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=NC_Skins;946295][url=http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/25/3556227/hello-kitty-cam-newton.html]Superman Celebration | CharlotteObserver.com[/url]

The boys in Charlotte are already clowning Cam with his pouting. (as well as Steve Smith)


[IMG]http://media.charlotteobserver.com/smedia/2012/09/25/16/07/29eX.HiLa.138.jpg[/IMG]


I'm so glad that he's not on our squad.

[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1411405/rFBam.gif[/IMG][/quote]



They deserve Claussen

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Mechanix544;946349]The guy was 1-4 in the playoffs after Elway. He did NOTHING during a very long stretch. And he had some of the worst defenses in the league during his tenure. Joe Gibbs won twice as many victories in his short time back than SHanahan did in, what, 10 or 11 years with a program that HE built? Sorry, your not gonna tell me because Shanahan was not the GM, that he didn't make the personell decisions in Denver. I lived there, and the guy had the last word, [B]every Bronco fan knew it[/B]. Its just he couldn't do squat with the team that he himself built, and after 3 years here, name something other than RG3 that he has accomplished.

I guess there is Larry Johnson and OJ Atogwe.[/quote]

Every Bronco fan? Knew something.....?
......like every Redskin fan....? Knows something[B]....?
[/B]Fans KNOW exactly whatever Coach-speak the team Decides they can....know. Nothing more. Thinking otherwise is......absurd.

I've never seen so many talk about Cleveland like this lol hell their fans should just join us

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=los panda;946369]why are you lumping kerrigan and griff together in your trade for gabbert scenario?[/quote]

Instead of drafting Gabbert, we traded down and let Gabbert go to Jax. Our lower first round pick we got from Jax in that trade netted us Kerrigan. If we do draft Gabbert instead of trading down for Kerigan, we DO NOT go after RG3 since we already have our young QB.

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Mechanix544;946364]Every team has nice pieces, even the Browns and raiders do. Touting his first round picks as reason to be optimistic, well, okay, but i'd say the percentage of him drafting a good player in that round is fairly high. He did pick up Alfred Morris though, so I will give him that. And Hankerson looks ok, but his drafting record here at the skins isn't glorious by any means, and of course he can't miss on all of them. Hiring Haslett as DC, was that a good move? Its putting those few pieces that he does have together and building a winner that counts, [B]and sorry, but other than RG3, I don't think this squad is any closer to a perennial contender than we were 3 years ago.[/B] It hasn't shown in the win loss column, thats for sure, and like i've said before, when are you all going to get tired of, "next year is our year, thats when we will really see progress." BTW, the Arizona cardinals are doing fairly well, and noone thought they were going to do squat before the season. NOONE. Shanahan, I'm afraid to say, is looking more and more like a has been that is coaching off of credentials from over a decade ago, sorry to say.

Its not that I don't want him to be good, its just that he's not.

ONE PLAYOFF WIN IN 12 years.....................optimistic? Hardly.[/quote]


:doh:

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

I can see reading comprehension in this thread has gone out the window...

Mooby and Gary84clark... Please pay attention to the /Sarcasm at the end of my post next time when claiming that I called Gabbert a Stud QB...

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;946383]I've never seen so many talk about Cleveland like this lol hell their fans should just join us[/QUOTE]

But keep it in perspective. The point is how they stack up against us? Not how they stack up against the rest of the nfl. I dont think anybody is saying they are going to the playoffs We are going to find out thats for sure. Its just that two weeks ago this was not even a discussion. The thing i cant figure out about us as a team is that for as long as i remember we were in close games that we lost and it was always because we didnt have a qb. Now it appears as though we are losing close games and they are only close BECAUSE we have a qb?? Wtf??

[QUOTE=punch it in;946389]But keep it in perspective. The point is how they stack up against us? Not how they stack up against the rest of the nfl. I dont think anybody is saying they are going to the playoffs We are going to find out thats for sure. Its just that two weeks ago this was not even a discussion. The thing i cant figure out about us as a team is that for as long as i remember we were in close games that we lost and it was always because we didnt have a qb. Now it appears as though we are losing close games and they are only close BECAUSE we have a qb?? Wtf??[/QUOTE]

I think we beat Cleveland by 14 if we played today

Re: Around the NFL...Week 4 Style
 

[quote=Mattyk;946376]Just listening to NFL radio today Browns fans sure have a different view of things than you guys that's for sure.

Maybe I'm reading their 0-4 record wrong or something.[/quote]

Lol, dont you know the grass is alwaysand greener, matty?

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;946392]I think we beat Cleveland by 14 if we played today[/QUOTE]

I wouldnt be shocked. Nor would i be shocked if we didnt. Anyway how did all this browns talk begin arent we playing the bucs this week?

[QUOTE=punch it in;946396]I wouldnt be shocked. Nor would i be shocked if we didnt. Anyway how did all this browns talk begin arent we playing the bucs this week?[/QUOTE]

Yes I just want a damn win! Most are picking Tampa to win so maybe that's a good thing for us