Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Son Of Man;993905]Unless you are Native American, your feeling on the matter (either way) is irrelevant. Borderline self-serving.[/quote]

The very nature of a Skins website is to discuss topics relevant to the Skins. Since this is about the name of the team, I would think it is a relevant discussion. And having vested nearly 40 years of my life as a Redskins fan, I think that I have a right to express my opinion. And that brings us back to the question, at what point does a word go from a dispersion to an honorable name. I wasn't around when the name was changed, I grew up thinking of the term Redskins as a good thing, and as a side note - Cowboys as a bad thing. I am pretty sure many if not most in my generation grew up with the same view, or if it was a negative it was because you didn't like the team - not because of any racial overtones.

Bottomline for me, if the whole of the collective native american tribes were demonstrating, picketing, and letting it be known that this was an offense against their race, then I would not have a problem with changing it. But if it is a group of lawyers, and a small non-representative sampling, then they need to move on. In my view, it is the latter.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

I think when the name finally does change it wont be in reaction to a lawsuit or court case because the team and the NFL will not want it to look like they have been forced into the change, they will want it to appear that the change was made on their own terms. Much like women members at Augusta National, one morning we are going to wake up one morning and hear hear the announcement. It will get a lot of play for a day and then be no big deal. Augusta did it on their terms and so will the Skins & the NFL.

As for team names I'd really like Americans or or maybe Hogs.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;993856]Why don't they run a poll with different Native American tribes and ask what they would rename the Redskins to. It would be an interesting test.[/quote]

Actually this did happen, and the largest % of Native Americans who were polled showed that they did not think the name "Redskins" was derogatory. In fact, some of the NAs that were polled said that they were Redskins fans and that they were honored to have a team represent them.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[url=http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2004-09-24-redskins-indians-poll_x.htm]USATODAY.com - Poll finds few Indians offended by Washington Redskins name[/url]

It's oldish but what would have happened in the last 8 years to really make the name offensive? Shouldn't, in this day and age, things like the n-word and the r-word be getting LESS offensive? Haven't we figured out as a society that giving weight to terms as derogatory is the only thing that makes them derogatory?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993830]What part of the country did you grow up? I spent a majority of my childhood out West. Yes, I did hear it as a negative term used to describe people, just like I heard the N word.[/quote]

So your telling us people went around calling other people Redskins?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Son Of Man;993905]Unless you are Native American, your feeling on the matter (either way) is irrelevant. Borderline self-serving.[/quote]

Well if you looked at the pannell discussing the isue Friday you would have seen it was like 3 Indians and the rest of the 15 some speakers were either white or black. So the Indians that have an issue with the name didn't have an issue with different races speaking for them.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993830]What part of the country did you grow up? I spent a majority of my childhood out West. Yes, I did hear it as a negative term used to describe people, just like I heard the N word.[/quote]

Which N word did you hear the one ending with an A an H or an ER?? Ill let this English teacher explain the proper usage.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY16_nKORb8]Teacher uses the N word - YouTube[/ame]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=skinsguy;993920]Actually this did happen, and the largest % of Native Americans who were polled showed that they did not think the name "Redskins" was derogatory. In fact, some of the NAs that were polled said that they were Redskins fans and that they were honored to have a team represent them.[/quote]

There you go, end of discussion. There's always going to be whiners in this world with their own agendas (Florio) they are the ones that want to be different. **** them!!

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;993911]The very nature of a Skins website is to discuss topics relevant to the Skins. Since this is about the name of the team, I would think it is a relevant discussion. And having vested nearly 40 years of my life as a Redskins fan, I think that I have a right to express my opinion. And that brings us back to the question, at what point does a word go from a dispersion to an honorable name. I wasn't around when the name was changed, I grew up thinking of the term Redskins as a good thing, and as a side note - Cowboys as a bad thing. I am pretty sure many if not most in my generation grew up with the same view, or if it was a negative it was because you didn't like the team - not because of any racial overtones.

Bottomline for me, if the whole of the collective native american tribes were demonstrating, picketing, and letting it be known that this was an offense against their race, then I would not have a problem with changing it. But if it is a group of lawyers, and a small non-representative sampling, then they need to move on. In my view, it is the latter.[/quote]

This I agree with this. Let it be known that some of the nationalities that are represented by NFL teams were known to cause violence against other groups of people: The Vikings and the Buccaneers just to name a couple. Both have either caused death or larceny. We can expand into other sports and look at names like "Pirates", who have committed terrorist attacks on civilian ships at sea, even in the recent few years. Yet, nobody complains about the glorification of those names and how they are represented in the NFL and other pro leagues.

This is where I think such arguments are pretty silly. Considering the fact that you don't have to really look that hard to find fault in half the other NFL team names. I'm sure Atheists think New Orleans' moniker is silly and might even find offense with it. The Raiders? The Vikings? The Buccaneers? I mean, really? Then you can dig further into college and I'm sure people would find offense to using "Blue Devils" which has a devil as a mascot. Demons? The fighting Irish? So, are Irish people violent?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=FRPLG;993921][url=http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2004-09-24-redskins-indians-poll_x.htm]USATODAY.com - Poll finds few Indians offended by Washington Redskins name[/url]

It's oldish but what would have happened in the last 8 years to really make the name offensive? Shouldn't, in this day and age, things like the n-word and the r-word be getting LESS offensive? Haven't we figured out as a society that giving weight to terms as derogatory is the only thing that makes them derogatory?[/quote]
Sorry but no. This line of thinking is akin to what happens in schools when the history of our country is taught as a 'transition' from the Native Americans to European settlers and that slavery was an 'unfortunate period' historically and the Civil War was fought over economics.

There should be no 'day and age' when demeaning and derogatory terms are 'less offensive' or acceptable in any form. The whole notion of 'giving weight' to things makes them bad is sticking your head in the sand and wishing they and their history don't exist.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Somewhere there are Neanderthals and cavemen who are still offended for being called those terms..

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;993999]Somewhere there are Neanderthals and cavemen who are still offended for being called those terms..[/quote]


[YT]r1i0fQWDSU4[/YT]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;993927]Which N word did you hear the one ending with an A an H or an ER?? Ill let this English teacher explain the proper usage.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY16_nKORb8"]Teacher uses the N word - YouTube[/URL][/quote]


What about the N word ending in RO?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

I said it once before and will say it again.

I doubt very seriously that the individual who owned the team in 1933 and changed the name from the Boston Braves to the Boston Redskins did it with the intent to use the term negatively. The name change came about, I believe, so that the baseball team and football team would not have the same names. Then the team moved to Washington and took on the name Washington Redskins.

I also doubt very seriously the NFL itself would associate itself with a team that carried a negative conotation to any group of people or individual. The intent of the name is not negative but instead positive. Honestly, the American Indian's should flip their ideals, get off their "politically correct" stance and adopt and rally around the Washington Redskins and support the fact that few Pro teams are named after them or even support their cause. From government all the way down to the fellow man we hear hardly a thing about the Indian other then in our history books on how the white man over ran them and took their land and failed to reimburse them for it. Oh and put them on reservations.

Atleast someone is honoring them.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

I could care less whether the name changes as I support the team because I love the city of Washington and the football team. I do agree with most people in that I don't think the name of the team was created with the intent to be degrading to a race of Americans, but that is where the current trend with the name lies. Whether it is a dictionary definition or even an encyclopedia definition there is reference to the name being used in a derogatory manner far more recently than it has been used in a positive manner in the speech of the general public. There will come a time where either society will push the hand of the NFL and the Redskins or the owner will opt to change the name on their own accord. Either way it is in the future though I don't speculate as to when.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=irish;993913]I think when the name finally does change it wont be in reaction to a lawsuit or court case because the team and the NFL will not want it to look like they have been forced into the change, they will want it to appear that the change was made on their own terms. Much like women members at Augusta National, one morning we are going to wake up one morning and hear hear the announcement. It will get a lot of play for a day and then be no big deal. Augusta did it on their terms and so will the Skins & the NFL.

As for team names I'd really like Americans or or maybe Hogs.[/quote]

It will never happen but I think if it ever did, the name should be Washington Pigskins. Similar to our current name but is football related. That is unless the United Pig Processors Union finds it offensive and brings suit.

Or just simply the Washington Skins. Lots of people already call us the "Skins" for short.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=SBXVII;994067]I said it once before and will say it again.

I doubt very seriously that the individual who owned the team in 1933 and changed the name from the Boston Braves to the Boston Redskins did it with the intent to use the term negatively. The name change came about, I believe, so that the baseball team and football team would not have the same names. Then the team moved to Washington and took on the name Washington Redskins.

I also doubt very seriously the NFL itself would associate itself with a team that carried a negative conotation to any group of people or individual. The intent of the name is not negative but instead positive. [B]Honestly, the American Indian's should flip their ideals, get off their "politically correct" stance and adopt and rally around the Washington Redskins and support the fact that few Pro teams are named after them or even support their cause. [/B]From government all the way down to the fellow man we hear hardly a thing about the Indian other then in our history books on how the white man over ran them and took their land and failed to reimburse them for it. Oh and put them on reservations.

Atleast someone is honoring them.[/quote]


Thats a very good point. the overwhelming majority of native americans polled did not find the name offensive. Perhaps Snyder could counteract some of this criticism by actively supporting native american causes and garnering support from Native Americans. I think its "noble" that the Redskins honor a minority that's been trampled on throughout modern history by using Native Americans as the name/logo for its team. What other team does that? The Titans honor ancient mythological gods. Several NFL teams honor wildlife. The Bucs and Vikings honor violent races/criminals from history. criticize those teams and leave us the eff alone.

I'm just offended that people are offended about this.

Must............get............out.................more. :what:

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=SkinzWin;994070]It will never happen but I think if it ever did, the name should be Washington Pigskins. Similar to our current name but is football related. That is unless the United Pig Processors Union finds it offensive and brings suit.

Or just simply the Washington Skins. Lots of people already call us the "Skins" for short.[/quote]

I also agree that when name was changed to Redskins back in the day it wasnt meant as a slur but times change and now it is viewed as a slur so for better or worse its going to change. My wallet is hoping it happens in the next 5 years.

When the name changes I dont expect it to be anything close to the word Redskins or have anything to do with Native Americans. It wont have Skin in it and I dont see it being Warrior or Braves either. That said I do think the name Pigskins is clever.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=irish;994081]I also agree that when name was changed to Redskins back in the day it wasnt meant as a slur but times change and now it is viewed as a slur so for better or worse its going to change. My wallet is hoping it happens in the next 5 years.

[B]When the name changes I dont expect it to be anything close to the word Redskins or have anything to do with Native Americans. [/B] It wont have Skin in it and I dont see it being Warrior or Braves either. That said I do think the name Pigskins is clever.[/quote]Agreed, but I think they could still go with Warriors while avoiding any NA iconography. Golden State (NBA) and my old high school did the same thing.
Not that it would happen, but I remember thinking a few years ago, right around when the movie 300 was released, that an Ancient Greek or Roman warrior would be pretty badass mascot and it would sort of make sense with the architecture of DC.

[IMG]http://static7.depositphotos.com/1152839/732/v/950/depositphotos_7327885-Greek-Spartan-Trojan-Vector-Mascot-with-Spear-and-Shield.jpg[/IMG]

Then again, I guess people of Greek or Roman descent would eventually start complaining... shit

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Does Pale Moon still sing the National Anthem a Redskins games?? If not they should get her back.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

And the hits keep on coming. This thing really seems like its picking up steam in the media. This article's author lambasts the Redskins saying it is immoral about every way imaginable. If the team name does get changed, do I get credit for coming up with the name Washington Pigskins?

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8944042/history-alone-prompt-washington-change-nfl-mascot]History alone should prompt Washington to change NFL mascot - ESPN[/url]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Jim vance did a segment on channel 4 about wanting the redskins to change their name. I read that dan synder has a patient on the name "warriors". They have been playing with different uniforms over the past few seasons as well. Keep the name redskins and go back to the uniforms from the 80's & 90's. Just my opinion

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=SkinzWin;994164]And the hits keep on coming. This thing really seems like its picking up steam in the media. This article's author lambasts the Redskins saying it is immoral about every way imaginable. If the team name does get changed, do I get credit for coming up with the name Washington Pigskins?

[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8944042/history-alone-prompt-washington-change-nfl-mascot"]History alone should prompt Washington to change NFL mascot - ESPN[/URL][/quote]

That's an old artical just reprinted.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

I heard all the convicts in jail are offended by the name steelers.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=troy;994176]Jim vance did a segment on channel 4 about wanting the redskins to change their name. I read that dan synder has a patient on the name "warriors". They have been playing with different uniforms over the past few seasons as well. Keep the name redskins and go back to the uniforms from the 80's & 90's. Just my opinion[/quote]

If you notice when you watch, Jim Vance doesnt say Redskins. He dances around it but doesnt say it. Sally Jenkins has an article about the name in today's Wash Post.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=troy;994176] Keep the name redskins and go back to the uniforms from the 80's & 90's. Just my opinion[/quote]Ummm, What?

[IMG]http://www.krakov.net/si/images/1988/0208_large.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.redskins.com/assets/images/imported/mediacontent//redskinsfile/photo/images/188345.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Alfred-Morris-Redskins.jpg[/IMG]

So basically you just want to change the pants?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Clearly the pants are the problem behind this name thing. Oh the socks too, don't forget about the socks.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Saw the link on ESPN, was going to post it before I saw someone else posted it but are cowboys offended by Dallas? This is a question I have always pondered.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;994205]Clearly the pants are the problem behind this name thing. Oh the socks too, don't forget about the socks.[/quote]

It will cost a couple of thousand if you don't have the right socks and wear them the right way.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Some people just don't pick up on sarcasm whatsoever

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;994212]Some people just don't pick up on sarcasm whatsoever[/quote]

It's because people always forget to switch fonts. [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]sarcasm font is very easily detectible[/FONT].

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=irish;994081]I also agree that when name was changed to Redskins back in the day it wasnt meant as a slur but times change and now it is viewed as a slur so for better or worse its going to change. My wallet is hoping it happens in the next 5 years.

[B]When the name changes I dont expect it to be anything close to the word Redskins or have anything to do with Native Americans. It wont have Skin in it and I dont see it being Warrior or Braves either. That said I do think the name Pigskins is clever.[/B][/quote]

I think that is absolutely the WORST idea that could ever happen. There is absolutely nothing WRONG with honoring Native Americans by having a football mascot that is an Indian. If the name, Redskins, is so wrong, then the team should ONLY change the name to another, "less offensive" Indian name to keep with tradition. You're talking about completely breaking off of the tradition of the football team. I would hope that Snyder has enough intestinal fortitude to put his foot down and say hey, I'm willing to compromise, but I am not completely trashing the team's identity.

I would be just fine with Warriors, Braves, or Seminoles; Keep the colors intact, keep the logo intact or switch back to the spear and feather with a bit of an updated look, and I could live with that. But I cannot live with The [URL="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7086/7219642688_18126134d1.jpg"]Washington Federals[/URL], The Wizards (Stupid, stupid name,) [URL="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7213/7213546930_8ecc48e2c3.jpg"]The Dragons[/URL], or the [URL="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7237/7219595274_c8d58188d7.jpg"]Stemps.[/URL]

The team needs to keep its identity at least.

[QUOTE=donofriose;994208]Saw the link on ESPN, was going to post it before I saw someone else posted it but are cowboys offended by Dallas? This is a question I have always pondered.[/QUOTE]

They sure are offended by their choking.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Snyder already owns the rights to the name 'Washington Warriors'. I'm guessing that's the direction they would go if they did change the name.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;994269]Snyder already owns the rights to the name 'Washington Warriors'. I'm guessing that's the direction they would go if they did change the name.[/quote]

No. Washington Pigskins. It's a lock. You heard it here first.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Mattyk;994269]Snyder already owns the rights to the name 'Washington Warriors'. I'm guessing that's the direction they would go if they did change the name.[/quote]

I could deal with the "Warriors".

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

What about the Washington Trojans?

Eh maybe that would be offensive from another perspective

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Washington Sniksder (Redskins spelled backwards) and almost sounding like Snyder.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;994279]What about the Washington Trojans?

Eh maybe that would be offensive from another perspective[/quote]

LOL! We root for the fighting condoms!