Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1016127]So you're as delusional about Skins fans as you are about Eli. :doh:

(bold mine)Or in the Giants' case, better lucky than good in more ways than one. Thank goodness they didn't get Rivers, they'd have won even more.

And again, thank goodness the Gnats got Eli instead of Rivers, Brees, Rothlisberger, etc. Giants fans are delusional enough as is.

"The stat chart to be the only saving grace"? Lol. Among the other parts of the game Eli is inferior, INTs are INTs. Though I guess by your standards "paid to win": since we swept the Giants with Rex Grossman as QB, that means Sexy Rexy >>> Eli. And when the stats are so lopsided in favor of Rivers, when just looking at them play it's also obvious Rivers is better. The only thing in Eli's favor is what superbowls THE GIANTS won. And last I looked there were 21+ other starters on a team that helped decide that.

I know you'll probably ignore this like everything else, but look at it this way: The Ravens won the SB this season. Would you take Joe Flacco on your team over Eli or any other QB? No? Why not? Go ahead and answer and contradict yourself.

Strawman, nobody said winning doesn't mean anything. OTOH, where does Dan Marino fit on your all-time list, and why? Stats? By his quick release and arm? :)

Ummm, you listed 6 QBs. "Take a shot at Bob"? See, that's your problem, you base your opinion on "taking shots" at other teams QBs and assume that must be my motivation. LMAO if you actually want to compare Griffin's performance with Eli's rookie year. I expect you to cling to injury on that, because that's all you have there. Just like basically all you have to cling to Eli being discussed with other better QBs is how well the Giants did in the playoffs.

(Bold mine)Fixed it for you. YW.[/quote]


I don't take shots at other teams QB's you did. I said I wouldn't. I didn't and haven't compared Eli and Bob ,they're different I fully admit that and have said nothing different, Eli is elite like it or not ,I like Bob he is a good young QB and exciting to watch but if he is not on the field he'll never be elite not a shot (as you would say) just a fact and one more thing I have NEVER in any post EVER wished or hope a player gets hurt Thing is you keep screaming Marino , so what he never won a super bowl so yeah I don't consider him as elite. As was pointed out before to say Eli is inferior is ignorant in any real discussion of current or past QB's.

P.S
You said I'm delusional about Skins Fans , not in a min ! I wouldn't be here if I was the fans here love their team and I respect that but my comments are to you not all skins fans . Skins Fans are great fans as are Giant fans.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

Geez. Please relearn sentence structure, giantone.

[quote=Giantone;1016144]I don't take shots at other teams QB's you did. I said I wouldn't. I didn't and haven't compared Eli and Bob ,[/quote]You brought up "Bob" for no good reason. Although I consider it a compliment considering how Griffin embarrassed the Giants DEs after whoever came up with the nickname.

[quote=Giantone;1016144]they're different I fully admit that and have said nothing different, [B]Eli is elite like it or not [/B],I like Bob he is a good young QB and exciting to watch but if he is not on the field he'll never be elite not a shot (as you would say) just a fact[/quote](bold mine) LOL. Eli is not elite. Period. A team fan can be forgiven thinking so, but to keep arguing the point after being proven wrong... nothing more to say unless you want to keep burying yourself deeper.

[quote=Giantone;1016144]and one more thing I have NEVER in any post EVER wished or hope a player gets hurt[/quote]Again you fail reading comprehension, giantone. I said you would cling to the injury thing for debate purposes, as in the ONLY reason you could consider RGIII not to be miles ahead of Eli starting out. And look, you just made the comparison between Eli vs. Griffin if he can't avoid injury, just like I said. :)

[quote=Giantone;1016144] [B]Thing is you keep screaming Marino , so what he never won a super bowl so yeah I don't consider him as elite.[/B] As was pointed out before to say Eli is inferior is ignorant in any real discussion of current or past QB's.[/quote](bold mine) Wow. You say Marino isn't elite. And then say calling Eli inferior (to Marino, Brees, Rivers, Peyton, etc.) is ignorant. Wow. :laughing2

Serious question: So you consider Trent Dilfer elite? If not, explain.

[quote=Giantone;1016144]P.S You said I delusional about Skins Fans , not in a min ! I wouldn't be here if I was the fans here love their team and I respect that but my comments are to you not all skins fans .[/quote]You are definitely delusional in thinking that Skins fans in general would ever consider Doug Williams or Mark Rypien as elite. Period. Delusional. That's more delusional than thinking Eli is elite.

[quote=Giantone;1016144]Skins Fans are great fans as are Giant fans.[/quote]Finally something generally true we can agree on. Each fan base has eccentricities for various reasons. We hate Dallas more than other teams, well until weasel John Mara violated the last year of the old CBA to screw two division opponents, and a lot of giant fans like to pretend that Eli is elite. Glad we can still enjoy fandom and watching the NFL.

HTTR

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Giantone;1016144]I don't take shots at other teams QB's you did. I said I wouldn't. I didn't and haven't compared Eli and Bob ,they're different I fully admit that and have said nothing different, Eli is elite like it or not ,I like Bob he is a good young QB and exciting to watch but if he is not on the field he'll never be elite not a shot (as you would say) just a fact and one more thing I have NEVER in any post EVER wished or hope a player gets hurt Thing is you keep screaming Marino , so what he never won a super bowl so yeah I don't consider him as elite. As was pointed out before to say Eli is inferior is ignorant in any real discussion of current or past QB's.

P.S
You said I delusional about Skins Fans , not in a min ! I wouldn't be here if I was the fans here love their team and I respect that but my comments are to you not all skins fans . Skins Fans are great fans as are Giant fans.[/quote]


Why do I feel that every time you call our QB "Bob" that you're taking a shot at us and him? I think it's your way of making a derogatory remark and don't be surprised if we react badly to that.

Your continued rants about Eli's eliteness would play a lot better on a Giants message board rather than here, and that's where I suggest you take them. I mean you're just wrong when you assert he's better than Brees for example, so take your arguments/discussion where they would be welcomed, not here.

And I was around when Rypien and Williams were successful here. There's nobody that thought they were in the same class as Montana, for example. So you're just dead wrong when you whistle that tune...

The most constructive thing you could do for at least a little while is go away and play in your own playground, with your Giants friends.

Farewell. HTTR.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

Eli is not an elite QB. He's too streaky of a passer, still makes throws a rookie would make. There is no way you put him in the class of Brady, Rogers, Brees...he's just not that level of QB.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1016165]Eli is not an elite QB. He's too streaky of a passer, still makes throws a rookie would make. There is no way you put him in the class of Brady, Rogers, Brees...he's just not that level of QB.[/quote]
I fully understand the discussion of whether Eli is Elite or not is a perspective thing but this started when HG28 put him in the class with Rivers and Romo , Stafford , Dalton ...post #98 . One super bowl victory might be luck, 2 is not !

As I said back in post #81 of this thread , that it depends on what criteria is being used for the list .Stats for other positions might determine the best , kickers , receivers ,etc but as for QB's and coach's its winning championships that matter a fact the NFL network has been pushing as of late.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

When I think "elite" I just dont think of Eli. He's not consistent enough. Right now: Peyton, Aaron Rodgers, Brees, and Brady are my elites. Eli is just on the outside looking in, Id probably rank him 6 or 7 best QB in the league right now.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

You take Flacco's little miracle run out last winter and he is somewhere between 10-15. Sorry but would you really take Flacco over RGIII? Pleaseeeeeee!

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

I like Flacco and all but yeah he's not a top 5 QB. I think Jaws just wanted to be different so he put him so high

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Chico23231;1016184]When I think "elite" I just dont think of Eli. He's not consistent enough. Right now: Peyton, Aaron Rodgers, Brees, and Brady are my elites. Eli is just on the outside looking in, Id probably rank him 6 or 7 best QB in the league right now.[/quote]And there's what I posted about Rivers, Rothlisberger might deserve consideration for #6-7, Flacco.... Eli may be top 10, if you don't consider guys like Newton, Kaep, RGIII, RW, and Luck.

HTTR

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1016194]And there's what I posted about Rivers, Rothlisberger might deserve consideration for #6-7, Flacco.... Eli may be top 10, if you don't consider guys like [B]Newton, Kaep, RGIII, RW, and Luck[/B].

HTTR[/quote]

You cant consider RG3, Wilson or Luck based on 1 year of play.

Id take Rothlisberger over Flacco and Rivers all day, probably not Eli.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Chico23231;1016195]You cant consider RG3, Wilson or Luck based on 1 year of play.

Id take Rothlisberger over Flacco and Rivers all day, probably not Eli.[/quote]No disagreement on the rookies/sophmores.

Big Ben would kill to have the protection Eli's had, and all the QBs mentioned are more reliable than Eli.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

Eli> Flacco most definitely.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1016196]........ and all the QBs mentioned are more reliable than Eli.[/quote]

LOL , wow. Other then Tom , Ben , and Eli name a current QB with 2 super bowl wins ?

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Giantone;1016211]LOL , wow. Other then Tom , Ben , and Eli name a current QB with 2 super bowl wins ?[/quote]


I'm all about SBs but remember Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, etc have won super bowls. I agree that ELI is a top 10 QB as I've said before but I don't consider him in the Brady or PM class because those guys give u the same great play week in and out. Both never miss the playoffs and both are always high TD/INT ratio

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

Jaws is turning into another ESPN cartoon character...

It's more to create headlines and debate, if the list didn't have any crazy placements no one would be talking about it. If he didn't slight RG3 a little bit, no one here would care. Debate and arguements give it alot of attention.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1016214]I'm all about SBs but remember Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, etc have won super bowls. I agree that ELI is a top 10 QB as I've said before but I don't consider him in the Brady or PM class because those guys give u the same great play week in and out. Both never miss the playoffs and both are always high TD/INT ratio[/quote]


Brady no question , Eli's play off record is better then Peytons that why I put Eli ahead of Peyton.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Giantone;1016229]Brady no question , Eli's play off record is better then Peytons that why I but[B] Eli ahead of Peyton[/B].[/quote]

dellusional...but I get it. I think if you polled the entire football fan nation you find 95% of fans have Peyton over Eli and it you polled just Giants fans you probably have 75% Eli over Peyton.

Peyton will go down as a top 5 QB of all time. Eli will always be the lil brother who played with the better defense. Sorry bud.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Giantone;1016178]I fully understand the discussion of whether Eli is Elite or not is a perspective thing but this started when HG28 put him in the class with Rivers and Romo , Stafford , Dalton ...post #98 . One super bowl victory might be luck, 2 is not !

As I said back in post #81 of this thread , that it depends on what criteria is being used for the list .Stats for other positions might determine the best , kickers , receivers ,etc but as for QB's and coach's its winning championships that matter a fact the NFL network has been pushing as of late.[/quote]

If you look at the overall body of work then I can understand why HG28 is putting him in the same class as Rivers and Stafford. To me they're comparable QB's, with Eli getting the slight edge because of his playoff success. However, Romo is clearly behind Manning simply because he hurts his team with stupid mistakes in the most crucial moments. Dalton is not yet in the discussion.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1016196]........ and all the QBs mentioned are more reliable than Eli.[/quote]

[quote=Giantone;1016211]LOL , wow. Other then Tom , Ben , and Eli name a current QB with 2 super bowl wins ?[/quote]Wow, giantone, try reading what you're quoting. I said all those other QBs just mentioned are MORE RELIABLE than Eli. Again you cling to SB wins the giants won as much because of their defense playing well at the time, because when it basically comes down to it, that's all you got. But if you're going to quote me, could you at least reply to what I said?

Pop quiz for you giantone: Out of the QBs mentioned in this thread, which QB led the league in interceptions for a season TWICE. Go on, take a guess. :) Bonus hint: His career stats are inferior to Philip Rivers in just about every way.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Giantone;1016229]Brady no question , Eli's play off record is better then Peytons that why I but Eli ahead of Peyton.[/quote]

[quote=Chico23231;1016230]dellusional...but I get it. I think if you polled the entire football fan nation you find 95% of fans have Peyton over Eli and it you polled just Giants fans you probably have 75% Eli over Peyton.

Peyton will go down as a top 5 QB of all time. Eli will always be the lil brother who played with the better defense. Sorry bud.[/quote]Hey Chico23231, thanks. Your post helped me understand at least a little "giantone logic".

I looked at giantone's post above and wondered, how can he rate Brady so high but not Peyton? At first I thought, well he's just "taking shots" at Peyton's playoff record to pump up Eli. But then I saw your post about "better defense". Both Brady and Peyton have established themselves as elite, all-time-great QBs by their body of work throughout their careers. (Brees elite also, Rivers to a lesser extent, Eli simply hasn't.) [U] But Brady didn't win Superbowls by playing the best of his career, he won early in his career when the Pats had an excellent defense![/U] Well, look at how the giants won SBs. So OF COURSE giantone loves Brady, and tries to make Eli out to be like him, while downplaying Peyton, Marino, Rivers. Guys who built a much better career individually but didn't have luck to have the defense that Brady and Eli's teams had. At least that much makes sense now! Thanks!

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1016258]

Pop quiz for you giantone: Out of the QBs mentioned in this thread, which QB led the league in interceptions for a season TWICE..[/quote]


Same one that got his second Super bowl MVP award a few years ago .

If you're going to do the pop quiz thing , do it on a stat that I didn't post already.:smashfreak:

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Chico23231;1016230]dellusional...but I get it. I think if you polled the entire football fan nation you find 95% of fans have Peyton over Eli and it you polled just Giants fans you probably have 75% Eli over Peyton.

.[/quote]

You know what they say about opinions ,everyone has one .

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

I am sorry I missed this. Very disappointing.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

(double post)

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Giantone;1016270]Same one that got his second Super bowl MVP award a few years ago

If you're going to do the pop quiz thing , do it on a stat that I didn't post already.:smashfreak:[/quote]And Joe Flacco won the last SB MVP. QBs get that award
if they just play well. So giantone, do you consider Joe Flacco elite? If not, explain.

Re. INTs: And yet you still need reminders how unreliable, how streaky Eli is. Another reason Eli is not elite.

Oh, and nothing to say about how Rivers career stats are better than Eli's in just about every way? :)

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

As far as elite qb's go, (my definition of elite being consistently plays great), I don't think Eli is in that category, because he plays above average most of the time. But I think we have to concede that Eli is definitely clutch, because he played a huge part in two SB wins and has also won countless games by leading game-tying or winning comeback drives in the 4th quarter (as we should def. be aware of after last year). And for me being clutch is just as important, if not more so than being elite. But I also feel that being clutch/elite don't necessarily go hand in hand. To use his older brother as an example, Peyton is elite, but not necessarily known for being clutch.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

i thought this thread was about Jaws' Qb countdown, not everyone elses ;-) lol .. The jury remains out on Eli on some things like where he will go down in history or if he is "elite" or not .. last season wasn't great for him.. but the kid played well in the 2 SB's he won so he's on his way to being remember as a top 10-15 talent if he keeps it up for the rest of his career... as of right now i prolly have him outside the top 5 at like 7... and i would have Peyton ahead of him. But credit where credit is due... Eli doesn't suck, he's no Phony Homo, he's pretty clutch most of the time and has won 2 SB's in recent years. He's one of the constants in the Gnat's success, so he deserves a little credit. That said, hope he falls on his face and plays like shit this year. #HTTR

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1016275].

Oh, and nothing to say about how Rivers career stats are better than Eli's in just about every way? :)[/quote]

How are Rivers super bowl stats? oops ...never mind.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=Giantone;1016374]How are Rivers super bowl stats? oops ...never mind.[/quote]

Anytime your opinion gets translated out that Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are all time greats and Dan Marino is terrible, you should rethink your opinion.

SB wins are more about the team. Look at Brady's stats. His stats when he was winning 3 SB's arent that impressive. His stats the last 5 years blow them all away. It doesnt mean that Brady has regressed, he has actually gotten better, it means the Pats defense is what has regressed.

Trent Dilfer has proven that average to below average QB's can win SB's as long as they have an impressive defense to go with it. That doesnt mean Dilfer is one of the all time greats, it means the defense he played with was. But according to the standards you keep throwing out, the Ravens defense doesnt matter and Dilfer is an all time great.

According to your standards, Coaches dont make a difference, GM's dont make a difference, Defenses dont make a difference, Offensive Lines dont make a difference. Because if they do, then its not just the QB that matters.

Look at Rothlisbergers SB stats, they really arent that impressive. One of their SB's victories with him, he did everything he could to cost them the game and their defense saved him time and time again. They won because of their defense, not because of Big Ben. The Giants defense played a huge role in their SB victories.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1016374]How are Rivers super bowl stats? oops ...never mind.[/QUOTEte]

Heck, if you asked him even Archie would rank Peyton ahead of Eli as a pro QB. Anyone that believes Eli is a better QB than Peyton or Drew Brees for example is just wrong. Simple fact is that he's just not good enough, and the stats (and simple visual evidence) prove it. Doesn't mean he's not a very good QB, but he's just not among the elite...

Take off your Giant homer glasses and stop trying to make this foolish argument. Or, as I suggested earlier, take it to your brethren on the Giants board who will shower you with love and affection. But please, stop polluting this discussion about Jaws' QB rankings with this nonsense.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1016383][QUOTE=Giantone;1016374]How are Rivers super bowl stats? oops ...never mind.[/QUOTEte]

Heck, if you asked him even Archie would rank Peyton ahead of Eli as a pro QB.

.[/quote]



Have a link to that ? My responses are to the ridiculous assertions made by HG28 .To not count Eli in the top 5 or 6 is and error.

Re: ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List
 

This thread has more than run its course