Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=firstdown;1029935]Well RGIII says he is 100% so how long can we use that excuse. Personally [B]I have come to the conclusion RGIII is just not a pocket QB.[/B] He likes to be moving and seems to throw the ball much better when he is moving even if he is just rolling out.[/quote]

How can you make that assumption when there is no pocket to throw from?

Our line doesn't create a pocket.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1029999]How can you make that assumption when there is no pocket to throw from?

Our line doesn't create a pocket.[/quote]

Or how about just the fact he's a 2nd year player coming off a major injury and adjusting to becoming more of a pro style QB.

I love that some people already have their minds made up on the guy. :doh:

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

No updates on Paulsen on Twitter as of 25 mins ago...

Chris Russell ‏@Russellmania980 25m
Mike Shanahan did not have any updates on Logan Paulsen or Alfred Morris. Says Larry Hess would have likely told him something. #Redskins

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

Hey I mean R.Wilson is light years better than RG3 right??? I mean he's a pure pocket passer right?? O yeah he's actually had a BAD season outside of the home game VS JAX. Nobody is calling him out though, or Kaepernick who has also had a very avg year

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=Mattyk;1030001]Or how about just the fact he's a 2nd year player coming off a major injury and adjusting to becoming more of a pro style QB.

I love that some people already have their minds made up on the guy. :doh:[/quote]

Those are too easy Matty :)

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1030006][B]Hey I mean R.Wilson is light years better than RG3 right???[/B] I mean he's a pure pocket passer right?? O yeah he's actually had a BAD season outside of the home game VS JAX. Nobody is calling him out though, or Kaepernick who has also had a very avg year[/quote]

clearly.........

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=Mattyk;1030001]Or how about just the fact he's a 2nd year player coming off a major injury and adjusting to becoming more of a pro style QB.

I love that some people already have their minds made up on the guy. :doh:[/quote]

Admittedly I don't jack about college ball, beyond reading and watching clips of guys we draft, but wasn't the buzz about RG that he ran a pro-style offense in college? A spread offense I think that had him dropping back a ton to pass?

Not that I'm arguing with you. I think RG hasn't had the reps/practice for obvious reasons. He's telegraphing throws, not seeing open receivers, and pass protection is baaaaaaaaaaaaad. In short, RG is the least of our problems, even limiting the discussion to just offense.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

I did pick Redskins to beat raiders in my ESPN pickem, yet I was still surprised by a comeback win of all things

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

Last year people were ready to saint RG3, now this year people want to burn him at the stake. Chill people.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

Just for the record when I say RGIII is not a pocket passer I don't mean it as a bad thing. I just think RGIII playes better while moving abound and that does not mean running the ball. Its like when he is moving he seems to see the field better and makes more plays.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=firstdown;1030027]Just for the record when I say RGIII is not a pocket passer I don't mean it as a bad thing. I just think RGIII playes better while moving abound and that does not mean running the ball. Its like when he is moving he seems to see the field better and makes more plays.[/quote]

Like Fran Tarkenton...only taller

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1030006]Hey I mean R.Wilson is light years better than RG3 right??? I mean he's a pure pocket passer right?? O yeah he's actually had a BAD season outside of the home game VS JAX. Nobody is calling him out though, or Kaepernick who has also had a very avg year[/quote]

Both good points especially regarding Kaepernick.

RGIII has trouble staring down his receivers but such changes with time. People need to be patient while our young star QB develops. At least give the guy a chance to have a real off-season like Wilson and Kaep have had.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

Kaepernick Didn't exactly light up STL, and he had 2 passes that were dropped by Lauranitis.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

Kaepernick is overrated. One read and done.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

^ thank u!

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1030006]Hey I mean R.Wilson is light years better than RG3 right??? I mean he's a pure pocket passer right?? O yeah he's actually had a BAD season outside of the home game VS JAX. Nobody is calling him out though, or Kaepernick who has also had a very avg year[/quote]

B/c he is winning, healthy, not committing stupid turnovers, and a perfect fit for the teams scheme. That can't be said about Rob and nobody knows what our identity is. Read option with a QB who can't threaten with run and a drop ball system with an OL that needs help.

I'm sure Russell doesn't wash his hands after using the bathroom, but he's winning and on a good team. He's under the radar of hype and producing for his team.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)w
 

[quote=firstdown;1030027]Just for the record when I say RGIII is not a pocket passer I don't mean it as a bad thing. I just think RGIII playes better while moving abound and that does not mean running the ball. Its like when he is moving he seems to see the field better and makes more plays.[/quote]

I think right now as a QB that is definitely where he is more comfortable.

There is a learning curve for him playing at this level in a NFL pocket and our team has not provided him one very many times this season. Our line has been dreadful. Frankly his skill set for this team is well suited. He is going to have to run more this year anyway.

My point was to declare a kid with 19 regular season starts someone who will not be able to be a pocket passer is really short changing a phenomenal kid. Give him time. I believe the kid can be who ever he wants to be in the NFL.

U actually think Wilson is under the radar? He's on like every NFL shows topic

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

I still think our biggest issues are at Safety, Middle LB, Right side of the OL. RG3 cannot be expected to carry the load of all of the weak areas of the team. R. Wilson has good defense behind him, RG3 does not.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1030047]U actually think Wilson is under the radar? He's on like every NFL shows topic[/quote]

Did you get a chance to see what he did on the vs a good team and better defense?They were down 17 in the second half. He didnt have a great day throwing the ball but ran for almost 80 yards and led them to a win in overtime. Folks sometimes the stats don't tell the full story.

Wilson deserves the press, he's getting it done. And honest to god he's throwing the ball to less talent than us

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

For all the crabbin' about RG3 he's on pace for 4800 yds and 24 TDs. Just sayin'.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=The Goat;1030022]Admittedly I don't jack about college ball, beyond reading and watching clips of guys we draft, but wasn't the buzz about RG that he ran a pro-style offense in college? A spread offense I think that had him dropping back a ton to pass?

Not that I'm arguing with you. I think RG hasn't had the reps/practice for obvious reasons. He's telegraphing throws, not seeing open receivers, and pass protection is baaaaaaaaaaaaad. In short, RG is the least of our problems, even limiting the discussion to just offense.[/quote]

He barely operated from under center in college and he definitely didn't run a pro style system. He didn't even have a play book.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1030052]Did you get a chance to see what he did on the vs a good team and better defense?They were down 17 in the second half. He didnt have a great day throwing the ball but ran for almost 80 yards and led them to a win in overtime. Folks sometimes the stats don't tell the full story.

Wilson deserves the press, he's getting it done. And honest to god he's throwing the ball to less talent than us[/quote]

Matt Schaub had a lot to do with that game even getting into overtime. Seattle's defense and Matt Schaub won that game more than Wilson did. Wilson is a great QB and I expect him to be a star in the NFL, but he doesnt have the upside Griffin does and has a much better defense. Give a 100% Griffin that D or one close to it and we are 4-0 as well. Like Matty said he is on pace for 4,800 yards.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

Yep, put the Seattle d on the Skins and we are Super Bowl favorites.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=los panda;1029899]oh yeah, and hats off to amerson.

i think it was ronde barber who made the comment on how amerson hadn't played well in the first 3 games; i disagree. i think he's played exceptionally well, sure he's been beat a time or two - but he has impressed me.[/quote]


Ronde Barber has to be one of the worst commentators there is. He is hard to listen to. And Stockton, couldn't even say Orakpo...they make a great team...

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=Mattyk;1030053]For all the crabbin' about RG3 he's on pace for 4800 yds and 24 TDs. Just sayin'.[/quote]


Those numbers are nice. Too bad it is because of the huge deficits he has been trying to overcome. He has been good though considering the injury and his limited NFL experience. He will only get better as the year progresses, along with the rest of the offense.

Now about that D....

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1030053]For all the crabbin' about RG3 he's on pace for 4800 yds and 24 TDs. Just sayin'.[/QUOTE]

Does that really matter if we lose while doing so? A lot of those numbers are from the Eagles and GB games. And most of his numbers are still coming in the second half. I'm still not sure what the hell is going on and I'm not gonna say its all RG's fault, but he is the out lying factor at this point. Almost every other position on this team is the same as it was last year. This team, and no team for that matter is really worth a s w/o a dynamic qb. And last year we had one, right now we don't.

That said they bye couldn't come at a better time. Annnnnnd if the Cowboys lose to the Broncos... and NYG can win at home against the Eagles... and then if we beat the Cowboys...we'd be tied for the lead in the division. Just sayin'.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1030006]Hey I mean R.Wilson is light years better than RG3 right??? I mean he's a pure pocket passer right?? O yeah he's actually had a BAD season outside of the home game VS JAX. Nobody is calling him out though, or Kaepernick who has also had a very avg year[/quote]

When did anybody say he was light yrs ahead of Rg3 or he was a pure pocket passer?

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=Mattyk;1030053]For all the crabbin' about RG3 he's on pace for 4800 yds and 24 TDs. Just sayin'.[/quote]
Who gives a damn?
Pissant Dan Marino crap.......
When he hits Peyton's stride.....THEN he'll have something.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1030055]Matt Schaub had a lot to do with that game even getting into overtime. Seattle's defense and Matt Schaub won that game more than Wilson did. Wilson is a great QB and I expect him to be a star in the NFL, but he doesnt have the upside Griffin does and has a much better defense. Give a 100% Griffin that D or one close to it and we are 4-0 as well. Like Matty said he is on pace for 4,800 yards.[/quote]

Schaub certainly helped,no doubt about that.BUT when Seattle needed it Wilson took them on a 98 yard drive with a couple of great passes,1 td nullified by penalty,and some great runs to get them in the endzone.If you didnt watch the game then you dont know how well Wilson played.I watched houdston game and skins game.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

I have not seen this mentioned (it may have been though), and I am not familiar with the inner workings of an OL, but it seems like the Skins OL has been fairly dominant in the running game for several years (off and on) and very awful at pass protection. Also, the current line has been built around zone blocking scheme in the running game, but what about pass protection? In some ways I could see where the strengths needed for pass pro are not inherently found in zone blockers. In pass pro you have to stick together and stand your ground, while in zone blocking you are more mobile, leverage blocks through the flow of the play, and adjust to the D (kinda talking outa my a**). Basically I'm asking, are our O lineman simply bad in pass pro, and is that partially due to the focus on zone blocking?

Also, since zone blocking requires more mobility and OL movement in general, is it possible that without the read option, when they break off the snap, before they even slip into pass pro, that the lack of OL movement is telegraphing that it is a pass play?

Dude Wilson did not play great Lol I watched the whole game. He's not that great I really don't know y so many people won't admit that

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1030075]Dude Wilson did not play great Lol I watched the whole game. He's not that great I really don't know y so many people won't admit that[/quote]

He might not be great or have the numbers, but is clutch and makes things happen. He has what is called intangibles.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

I think our being 1-3 isn't RG3's fault per se. We have a crappy defense, so-so special teams, and an average offense sans QB. It's just we're basically the same team as last season, only late last season RG3 carried the team, and this season so far he's not. That's the difference to me, it's not that RG3's killing the team, he's just not carrying it like last season.

RG3 was successful with the read-option and play-action. I understand him wanting to hone his skills as a traditional passer aka Brady/Manning. That's how he can have a long and successful career with the Skins. But I don't understand why we had to abandon the read-option and play-action to do so, those things were protecting him from the consequences of a mediocre pass protecting line.

I also don't understand why we had to tank the first quarter of the season to give RG3 playing time while recovering. Going off the Cleveland game last season, we could have won an extra game or two so far with Cousins. Remember we were NFCE champs, but only beat NYG by one game and came down to the last reg season game with DAL. I don't agree with sacrificing the team for any one individual.

RG3 needs to get back up to speed and in football shape? That's what practice and conditioning is for. Griffin did darn well with zero NFL experience his rookie season, he'll be fine. Playing him like we have, we're lucky not to be 0-4 and RG3 knocked out of this season, IMO.

Start Cousins till RG3 is 100%. I mean full mobility the knee brace is off 100%. It's better for RG3 and the Skins.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

So I just read up a little bit on the Zone Blocking Scheme, and it confirmed my suspicion that ZB OL are smaller and quicker and therefore there is a trade off when it comes to pass pro, because they are much more likely to be pushed back into the QB. (I know this is nothing new, but bear with me) This is why we needed a mobile QB to counter balance the relatively small OL, that is why Elway did well, but he was certainly not the burner RG3 was/will be again, but Elway was ALSO known for making quick reads and getting the ball out of his hands.

So here we are now, RG3 is not so mobile, uncomfortable in his healing body, not experienced enough to make reads quickly, and behind a ZB OL. This has resulted in RG3 hurrying himself and trying to force plays. So should we not expect poor decision making, bad accuracy, telegraphing passes with his eyes, and throw aways? I think it was unrealistic for us to expect RG3 to come in and completely change his style of play and succeed immediately. For all intents and purposes he is a rookie this year, and has pretty good numbers considering.

I see people blaming our woes on lack of talent at skill positions or bad play calling, but I think the problem is RG3, right now he does not fit the scheme, given time though, I have no doubts that he can effectively run this offense even without his jets. The good news is all the problems he is having this year are the same problems most young QBs face, and the skills he is lacking are the kind that can be learned.

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1030077]He might not be great or have the numbers, but is clutch and makes things happen. He has what is called intangibles.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but that won't last long in the NFL, u have to be special to be a franchise QB, he's a great character guy and I really like him don't get me wrong but IMO he just doesn't have that elite ability and passing that u have to have. Hell none of these young guns should be considered great yet that gets on my nerves. Even Griffin

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1030079] I understand him wanting to hone his skills as a traditional passer aka [B]Brady/Manning[/B]. That's how he can have a long and successful career with the Skins.[/quote]

I agree with your sentiment here, but I don't think Brady and Manning are accurate yard sticks. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure these guys had very large OL in front of them, while the Shaniplan calls for smaller mobile lineman that can be beat more easily in pass pro. I wonder though, in a pass heavy league is it smart to build your line around a running scheme while sacrificing good pass pro?

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=WillH;1030084]I agree with your sentiment here, but I don't think Brady and Manning are accurate yard sticks. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure these guys had very large OL in front of them, while the Shaniplan calls for smaller mobile lineman that can be beat more easily in pass pro. I wonder though, in a pass heavy league is it smart to build your line around a running scheme while sacrificing good pass pro?[/quote]Shanny's had success in Denver with that scheme, and our last season was pretty good too. I don't think you need maulers to pass pro, especially when you can freeze the LBs with good PA (set up by running plays in similar sets) and burn blitzes with quick slants and outs.

edit: Yeah the Pats OL is underrated, but Brady's dink and dunk can make it impossible to get to him as well.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1030083]Yeah but that won't last long in the NFL, u have to be special to be a franchise QB, he's a great character guy and I really like him don't get me wrong but IMO he just doesn't have that elite ability and passing that u have to have. Hell none of these young guns should be considered great yet that gets on my nerves. Even Griffin[/quote]

I believe some in the media do not like to give credit to a team as a whole, and they have to focus on one person. RW is succeeding mainly because of the talent he has in offense and defense. Which is not necessarily a criticism, because there have been QBs that cannot take advantage of the talent around him.

Seattle is a playoff contender and a lot of things are going their way this season. They have one of the biggest home field advantage in sports, talent on both sides of the ball (including one of the best defenses in the league), and they have a pretty easy schedule. Unless something drastically changes, they could easily go 12-4.

Re: We won!!!!!!!!!! (Redskins vs. Raiders Post Game Thread)
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1030086]Shanny's had success in Denver with that scheme, and our last season was pretty good too. I don't think you need maulers to pass pro, especially when you can freeze the LBs with good PA (set up by running plays in similar sets) and burn blitzes with quick slants and outs.

edit: Yeah the Pats OL is underrated, but Brady's dink and dunk can make it impossible to get to him as well.[/quote]

I agree that it has been and can be a successful scheme, but I'd be interested to see if there are any stats about time in the pocket and QB hits / sacks/ injuries for Zone Scheme vs others. There probably aren't such stats, and I'm certainly not head coach material, but I guess on a common sense level, if I were building my team around a franchise QB with a big arm I would be putting the biggest best Pass Protecting OL that I could find in front of him, even if he is mobile. I really have confidence in the Shanihans, but I think it is still a point worth debating.