Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1031560]Seems like your chosing Party over Country. Interesting.

Because thats what it is, these politicians dont really care about their own people or this country, they putting party in front of their country. So screw my neighbor and my community, Im upset our party has lost multiple times at the polls, so we are going to do everything possible to shut down the government.

Get over it, you lost again! The people voted and the majority chose affordable health care.

I may not like it, you may not like it, but you cant try to change the will of the people. It doesnt work like that, and the Party will end up hurting itself even more.[/quote]

Its actually the other way around. We currently have a 17 trillion dollar dept which is going to sink us but who cares lets just keep raising the debt ceiling. Our kids can pay for this.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Lotus;1031971]What if someone wants to commit a crime at the memorial? Vandalize the memorial? We need personnel to be watching such spots but those folks are all out of jobs. That's why parks and memorials stay closed.

Don't you lock the doors of your house when you are not going to be at home? Same idea.[/quote]


Really that's your argument. The WWII memorial has no doors its open unguarded 24/7 and the beach I was talking also has no doors. I guess someone could steal a shell or two.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Giantone;1032921]On one thing he said he would not negotiate ,he also said he would listen to anything and that he would welcome an open dialog.[/quote]

It was actually two things. Obama care and the debt ceiling but he has no problem with delaying the parts of Obama care as he wants. The Rep agreed to vote if Obama would implement the entire law as passed but he refused.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=firstdown;1032980]It was actually two things. Obama care and the debt ceiling but he has no problem with delaying the parts of Obama care as he wants. The Rep agreed to vote if Obama would implement the entire law as passed but he refused.[/quote]



There is no such thing as Obama Care .

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=firstdown;1032979]Really that's your argument. The WWII memorial has no doors its open unguarded 24/7 and the beach I was talking also has no doors. I guess someone could steal a shell or two.[/quote]

My guess is that the memorial and the beach both have security in the form of park rangers who check in on them from time to time.

But even more, you can't shut down some federal landmarks and leave others open. And there definitely are federal landmarks which can be vandalized, serve as crime locations, etc.

It's the Tea Party which caused this situation. Take your frustration up with them.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Lotus;1032984]
It's the Tea Party which caused this situation. Take your frustration up with them.[/quote]



While I agree 100% with you , no Republican will ever admit that it is ,their motto is blame the black man .

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Giantone;1032985]While I agree 100% with you , no Republican will ever admit that it is ,their motto is blame the black man .[/quote]

[I]Some [/I]non-Tea Party Republicans also blame the Tea Party and agree with you that the Tea Party is patently racist. Some. :)

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Lotus;1032988][I]Some [/I]non-Tea Party Republicans also blame the Tea Party and agree with you that the Tea Party is patently racist. Some. :)[/quote]

That's such a crock of shit. Usually its the racist that point the finger first.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=firstdown;1032992]That's such a crock of shit. Usually its the racist that point the finger first.[/quote]

I am hardly the first to make that observation.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[url=http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/13/at-tea-party-like-rally-obama-told-to-put-the-quran-down/?hpt=hp_t2]Rallier tells Obama to ‘put the Quran down’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs[/url]

"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.

When the right aligns themselves with wackos like this I just shake my head. This guy is a flat out nut.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1033012][URL="http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/13/at-tea-party-like-rally-obama-told-to-put-the-quran-down/?hpt=hp_t2"]Rallier tells Obama to ‘put the Quran down’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs[/URL]

"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.

When the right aligns themselves with wackos like this I just shake my head. This guy is a flat out nut.[/quote]

Edit posted twice

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1033012][URL="http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/13/at-tea-party-like-rally-obama-told-to-put-the-quran-down/?hpt=hp_t2"]Rallier tells Obama to ‘put the Quran down’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs[/URL]

"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.

When the right aligns themselves with wackos like this I just shake my head. This guy is a flat out nut.[/quote]

Both sides have wackos. You can't help who aligns with the party.

[URL="http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621"]Death Threats Against Bush at Protests Ignored for Years · zomblog[/URL]

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1033012][url=http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/13/at-tea-party-like-rally-obama-told-to-put-the-quran-down/?hpt=hp_t2]Rallier tells Obama to ‘put the Quran down’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs[/url]

"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.

When the right aligns themselves with wackos like this I just shake my head. This guy is a flat out nut.[/quote]

I cannot understand the Obama-is-a-Muslim argument. It was wrong 6 years ago, it's wrong now. Where have those people been? It seems some people really do live under rocks.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Lotus;1032994]I am hardly the first to make that observation.[/quote]

Yes the left has tried to paint them that way for years.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[url=http://samuel-warde.com/2013/10/house-gop-busted-senator-van-hollen-conveniently-changing-law-video/]Chris Van Hollen Busts GOP For Secretly 'Altering' Law To Facilitate The Shutdown (VIDEO) | Liberals Unite[/url]

:laughing-


[quote]Late in the evening on September 30, 2013, the House Rules Committee Republicans changed the Rules of the House so that the ONLY Member allowed to call up the Senate’s clean CR for a vote was Majority Leader Eric Cantor or his designee — all but guaranteeing the government would shut down a few hours later and would stay shut down. Previously, any Member would have had the right to bring the CR up for a vote.[/quote]

Still think this is the Democrats doing? Don't those moderate Republicans know they are going to lose their spots in the house? Sure, some of those Tea Tards gerrymandered their district ensuring their re-election, but many are locations where they could (and probably will) be voted out.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1033019][url=http://samuel-warde.com/2013/10/house-gop-busted-senator-van-hollen-conveniently-changing-law-video/]Chris Van Hollen Busts GOP For Secretly 'Altering' Law To Facilitate The Shutdown (VIDEO) | Liberals Unite[/url]

:laughing-




Still think this is the Democrats doing? Don't those moderate Republicans know they are going to lose their spots in the house? Sure, some of those Tea Tards gerrymandered their district ensuring their re-election, but many are locations where they could (and probably will) be voted out.[/quote]

Moderate Republicans have gone along out of fear of the Tea Party's deep pockets. The fear is that an angry TP will run someone hard at them in next year's Republicans primaries. It's elephant-on-elephant squabbling.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=firstdown;1032992]That's such a crock of shit. Usually its the racist that point the finger first.[/quote]


....and who have you been blaming since day one ?

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

So... Who thinks we're heading towards default?

House can't put together a bill that the other Republicans can agree on. Personally, I think it'll be resolved if not by tomorrow then by Wednesday. But man, it looks like more and more Repubs are trying to cut off their nose to spite their face.

But does the default happen? Ye? Nay? They're cutting it awfully close...

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1033270]So... Who thinks we're heading towards default?

House can't put together a bill that the other Republicans can agree on. Personally, I think it'll be resolved if not by tomorrow then by Wednesday. But man, it looks like more and more Repubs are trying to cut off their nose to spite their face.

But does the default happen? Ye? Nay? They're cutting it awfully close...[/quote]


I do , I look at the news every night read the papers every morning and all I see and read about is total dysfunction . I for one believe that all of them ...YES ALL OF THEM ....are just to plain stupid to know what in the hell they are doing .

Sadly, they know what they're doing. They just don't care.

Take back the country for 'We, the People'.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1033270]So... Who thinks we're heading towards default?

House can't put together a bill that the other Republicans can agree on. Personally, I think it'll be resolved if not by tomorrow then by Wednesday. But man, it looks like more and more Repubs are trying to cut off their nose to spite their face.

But does the default happen? Ye? Nay? They're cutting it awfully close...[/quote]

From what I read there is really no reason for us to defult on anything even if congress cannot pass a bill. To carry the debt is about 10% of our annual/monthly revenue so they will just have to pay those bills above other things. Sad news is the other things are probably Federal Employees.

I just sent in my personal tax returns both state & federal (filed an extension) and I wonder if my refund will be delayed. I don't really care if its delayed just curious.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1033270]So... Who thinks we're heading towards default?

House can't put together a bill that the other Republicans can agree on. Personally, I think it'll be resolved if not by tomorrow then by Wednesday. But man, it looks like more and more Repubs are trying to cut off their nose to spite their face.

But does the default happen? Ye? Nay? They're cutting it awfully close...[/quote]

It would be insane to default. Only the nuttiest, most ideologically-crazy politicians would allow this to happen.

So, yes, I am afraid that we will default.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

Here is a good read.




The Facts
The debt ceiling is set at $16.699 trillion, for both publicly traded bonds and intergovernmental obligations such as Social Security, and the United States actually hit it back in the middle of May. But the Treasury has juggled money around in an effort to keep from going over the debt limit. But by most estimates, sometime between Oct. 17 and Nov. 1, the game of financial musical chairs must end and Treasury would no longer be able to pay all bills that are due.

Paul’s aides said his figures were averages, and we won’t quibble with the numbers, except to note that in some months (such as when annual and quarterly taxes are due), there is a revenue gusher; in other months, tax collections are relatively slim.

According to the Bipartisan Policy Center, between Oct. 18 and Nov. 15, the government would have estimated receipts of $222 billion and owe $35 billion in interest on Treasury securities. So a monthly average does not really tell the whole story.

Moreover, let’s not forget that, even with the improvement in the economy, the United States is still running a substantial deficit — some $600 billion in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30. That means that revenues are generally far short of expenses, month by month.

Paul’s main point is Treasury should be able to prioritize its payments, an aide said. In other words, it would choose to pay just the interest on the bonds held by Wall Street and foreign investors (such as the Chinese and Japanese governments) while stiffing other creditors. For instance, IRS refunds could be delayed or federal salaries withheld.

All told, in this period, some $100 billion in bills in the month after Oct. 15 would need to be delayed. An especially difficult day would be Nov. 1, when $58 billion in Social Security payments, disability benefits, Medicare payments, military salaries and retiree pay is due.

We will leave aside the question of whether any politician would want to tell Americans that Chinese bondholders get higher priority than their Social Security checks. Is this even possible?

(Update: We should have used an example other than Social Security checks. Because of the interaction with the trust funds, there would be no savings, as economist Dean Baker points out.)

Paul’s aides pointed to a 1985 General Accounting Office report that the “Treasury is free to liquidate obligations in any order it finds will best serve the interests of the United States.” But both the Treasury Department and the Congressional Research Service say that there is tremendous legal uncertainty about whether some payments could be honored while others ignored if the nation goes above the borrowing limit.

This is a bit of an academic dispute. The sheer volume of transactions — as many as 5 million a day — would make it difficult to pick and choose. Moreover, Treasury says its systems are designed to make payments in the order in which they are due.

After the 2011 showdown, Treasury concluded that “the least harmful option available to the country at the time, of these very bad options,” was a delayed payment regime. In other words, Treasury would only pay all of the bills for a particular day once it had collected enough cash for every outstanding claim due that day.

So, in theory, Monday’s payments would be held until, say, Wednesday. Then, Tuesday’s payments would be held until enough money was collected for that day’s payments, which could be Thursday or Friday. So the government could start the following week already three days behind in payments — and continue to fall ever farther back.

But if this even were possible, would it be advisable? Steve Bell, who worked on Wall Street and was a former staff director of the Senate Budget Committee under Sen. Pete V. Domenici (R-N.M.), says the financial markets likely would judge any delay in payments related to the debt ceiling as an effective default and would punish U.S. Treasuries accordingly by demanding higher interest rates on U.S. securities.

During the 2011 debt ceiling confrontation, elevated interest rates cost taxpayers $1.3 billion, according to the GAO. Over 10 years, Bell says, the impact of that relatively minor blip totals nearly $19 billion. In other words, if Wall Street decided that a delay in some payments meant the same thing as an actual default, traders could demand the same kind of rates as if the government had defaulted — at a substantial cost to U.S. taxpayers.

Wall Street executives, quoted in The Wall Street Journal this week, in fact warned against attempting to make some payments ahead of others, saying it would “drive up borrowing costs and cause market disruptions.”

“Senator Paul is not advocating merely paying the interest on the debt,” the aide said. “These are all hypothetical situations in terms of the U.S. not fulfilling all obligations. The point is that there is no reason to default on the debt.”

“Markets would be unhappy if the government didn’t pay any bills but it would be much, much worse if they didn’t pay interest on the government debt,” Feldstein said in an e-mail. “I imagine that the government is not writing checks to some suppliers, etc. now but the markets are not upset because they know it will come later. So from a ‘fact checking’ point of view, the fact is that the government can avoid defaulting on the debt payments.”

The Pinocchio Test
On a theoretical level, it might be possible to just pay interest on the national debt, while

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

Even Pat Robertson thinks that the GOP has gone too far:
[url=http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/tv-preacher-robertson-sees-gop-too-extreme]TV preacher Robertson sees GOP as too extreme | MSNBC[/url]

What a sad day it is when Robertson is more reasonable than some House members.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

i think that the GOP is realizing that to default would make Obama one of the most powerful presidents in our life time

[url=http://politix.topix.com/homepage/8332-obama-can-use-emergency-powers-to-mitigate-default-pain-historian-says]Obama Can Use 'Emergency Powers' To Mitigate Default Pain, Historian Says[/url]

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

Well I do agree with Obama on this. Nothing like a man taking a real stance on an issue.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mZ39Zet97Q"]"O" the Debt Ceiling - YouTube[/ame]

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

Well a deal has been reached.

[url=http://news.msn.com/us/senator-bipartisan-debt-deal-has-been-reached]Senators seek budget deal, House GOP effort flops[/url]

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=firstdown;1033403]Well I do agree with Obama on this. Nothing like a man taking a real stance on an issue.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mZ39Zet97Q"]"O" the Debt Ceiling - YouTube[/URL][/quote]



I'm sure if Obama would sign the bill if he feels this way.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Lotus;1033401]Even Pat Robertson thinks that the GOP has gone too far:
[url=http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/tv-preacher-robertson-sees-gop-too-extreme]TV preacher Robertson sees GOP as too extreme | MSNBC[/url]

[B]What a sad day it is when Robertson is more reasonable than some House members[/B].[/quote]

Scary since Robertson is a complete wacko.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/ted-cruzs-hometown-newspaper-regrets-endorsement/]Ted Cruz’s Hometown Newspaper Regrets Endorsement - ABC News[/url]

Bye Ted Cruz, you failed and loss a ton of support. You probably found a home on the Palin speaking circuit for nuts.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1033423][URL="http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/ted-cruzs-hometown-newspaper-regrets-endorsement/"]Ted Cruz’s Hometown Newspaper Regrets Endorsement - ABC News[/URL]

Bye Ted Cruz, you failed and loss a ton of support. You probably found a home on the Palin speaking circuit for nuts.[/quote]

Nothing like dumb F^%ks that say one thing then another when they feel its in their best interest. This is from your attachment

"“When we endorsed Ted Cruz in last November’s general election, [B]we did so with many reservations[/B] and at least one specific recommendation"

Really, so you had resevations but you endorsed him anyways. Looks like that clip I have of Obama saying how bad extending the debt ceiling is one year and now is all for it. GROW BALLS and actually stand for something.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[url=http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/jay-bookman/2013/oct/16/anatomy-epic-historical-failure/]Anatomy of the GOP's epic, historic failure | Jay Bookman | www.ajc.com[/url]

maybe those wacko republicans can read

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=dmek25;1033431][URL="http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/jay-bookman/2013/oct/16/anatomy-epic-historical-failure/"]Anatomy of the GOP's epic, historic failure | Jay Bookman | www.ajc.com[/URL]

maybe those wacko republicans can read[/quote]


But for the moment at least, the larger constitutional issue has been decided: [B]Those who threaten damage to the country in order to augment their own power will not be rewarded for such threats.[/B] When the history of the Obama presidency is written, the events of the last few weeks will constitute a major chapter.

I guess he wrote the same thing when Obama voted against extending the debt limit. Funny how that has been lost in all of this and the speach that he gave which I posted hear but the left seems to ignore. In 2006 it was un American by his standards but I guess 7 yrs later its the American thing to do. Lets keep kicking the can down the road.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

I thought this was interesting and telling .


[url=http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop?lite]NBC/WSJ poll: Shutdown debate damages GOP - First Read[/url]


And one year until next fall’s midterm elections, American voters prefer a Democratic-controlled Congress to a Republican-controlled one by eight percentage points (47 percent to 39 percent), up from the Democrats’ three-point advantage last month (46 percent to 43 percent).
What’s more, Obama’s political standing has remained relatively stable since the shutdown, with his approval rating ticking up two points since last month, and with the Democratic Party’s favorability rating declining just three points (from 42 percent to 39 percent).

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Giantone;1033477]I thought this was interesting and telling .


[URL="http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop?lite"]NBC/WSJ poll: Shutdown debate damages GOP - First Read[/URL]


And one year until next fall’s midterm elections, American voters prefer a Democratic-controlled Congress to a Republican-controlled one by eight percentage points (47 percent to 39 percent), up from the Democrats’ three-point advantage last month (46 percent to 43 percent).
What’s more, Obama’s political standing has remained relatively stable since the shutdown, with his approval rating ticking up two points since last month, and with the Democratic Party’s favorability rating declining just three points (from 42 percent to 39 percent).[/quote]

NBC LMAO

44% voted for Obama
35% voted for Mitt
6% voted for someone else
5% Not sure WTF. Don't know who they voted for? Good guess is Obama.
10% Did not vote.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

Either side your on, this was another embarrassment to our government. This crap needs to change. If there was every a chance to get a third party going.....

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57607889/obama-defeats-the-republican-party-in-shutdown-showdown/]Obama defeats the Republican Party in shutdown showdown - CBS News[/url]

President Obama said he wouldn't negotiate with Republicans over raising the debt limit and funding the government, and he never really needed to pick up the phone. The deal that passed both houses of Congress Wednesday achieves both goals, with minuscule concessions from the president's side. In the crude analogy of two cars playing chicken, the president's opponents pulled over. After 16 days of a government shutdown, the Republican Party has achieved its lowest approval ratings in recorded history, the president's health care plan is unscathed, and the GOP's civil war still roars. Proof was on the cable television split-screens. As Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell was announcing the bipartisan deal that ended the standoff, Sen. Ted Cruz was holding his own press conference denouncing the Senate establishment that had caved.




.......and unless these idiots learned from this (I doubt it) this will happen again in Jan .

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1033503]Either side your on, this was another embarrassment to our government. This crap needs to change. If there was every a chance to get a third party going.....[/quote]

Yes sir. The rest of the world has been laughing at us for our political dysfunction. The two-party system is broken.

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

Good job Republicans. That sure was productive wasn't it?

Re: So... The Government is Shut Down...
 

[url=http://gawker.com/house-stenographer-dragged-off-floor-yelling-about-free-1446830813]House Stenographer Dragged Off Floor Yelling About Freemasons And God[/url]

Speaking of wackos. This person has gone off the deep end. :laughing- I guess being around all those morons would drive anybody crazy.


These are the type of morons voting for the Tea Party.