Re: Skins Viks Postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1039968]Y the fuck was Riley covering a WR is what i need to know[/quote]

From the article that was posted earlier in this threat

"10. One big play: the 25-yard pass to receiver Jerome Simpson on third-and-9 in the fourth quarter against linebacker Perry Riley. How does he end up on him? In that situation Riley's job was to play the No. 2 receiver to the weakside and that was Simpson. Riley said it was supposed to be zone coverage, but with man principles and when Simpson took off downfield he had to stay with him. Simpson got a free release to the outside making it even tougher to defend. Riley had no chance."

Re: Skins Viks Postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1039970]yeah man but geez we all know he can't cover a slot.. just frustrating and is Hall hurt?[/quote]

I hear ya but mistmatches happen on both sides of the ball.

Re: Skins Viks Postgame
 

[quote=DirtBagZ;1039918]I think the whole they will go a run like last year talk needs to end, it is not going to happen. There are at least three more losses on the schedule, don't see this inconsistent team with no defense winning against the likes of San Francisco or KC, and I don't think they will sweep the Giants. The loss is definitely on the defense, but still [B]I think Kyle gets too pass happy every time the game gets close. [/B]There seemed to be a couple of possessions in the second half where we got too pass happy and ended up with sacks and then having to punt.[/quote]

I have called Kyle out on his play calling in the past (on more than one occasion), but I have been thinking about this, and I am starting to think that Kyle just knows that the defense is going to give up points on every drive so he [B]HAS[/B] to score a TD on every possession. That's a lot of pressure put on the offense every week, knowing that if you don't score a TD every time you touch the ball your team is going to lose. Maybe this leads him to be over-agressive at times, or causes him to over analyze situations and get too cute with the playcalling on occasion, especially when the game is close. I mean this defense has given up over 30 points six times this year.

Don't you just know that when the other team's offense has the ball, unless [B]THEY[/B] make a mistake it is going to result in points?

So does Kyle.

This season is more about piss poor defense (tackling, scheme, personnel, whatever you want to point to) than it is about RGIII not being 100%, or play calling or anything else.

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[quote=Mattyk;1039965]The offense is near the top half of the league in most offensive categories while the defense is near the bottom in most, but yeah F Kyle. :doh:[/quote]

Yardage stats don't win anything. When you have the ball first and goal on the one against a one win team it should be a TD. Kyle has to be Don Coryell and throw it there twice. Why not give it to Morris there one more time?? Sorry but that's 100% shitty playcalling. Morris was gashing their D all night. That came back to bite us in the ass.

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I agree with Matt about the O we score enough a game to be a .500 team. Its the D that has lost most games for us and if it wasn't for AMERSON last week SD would have won on their final drive as well.

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[quote=skinsfan69;1039975]Yardage stats don't win anything. When you have the ball first and goal on the one against a one win team it should be a TD. Kyle has to be Don Coryell and throw it there twice. Why not give it to Morris there one more time?? Sorry but that's 100% shitty playcalling. Morris was gashing their D all night. That came back to bite us in the ass.[/quote]

I'm not talking strictly yardage. The offense is averaging 25.6 points per game (11th) while the D is giving up 31.9 (31st). That's a problem.

As far as running it another time, sure they could have tried it, but they were also working with no time outs and Morris get stuffed on his carry. If they run it again and get stuffed more time ticks off. Shouldn't have come down to those final plays anyways.

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The offense is good enough to win games. Its not Denver but if the Redskins had a decent defense they would probably be at least a .500 team.

For instance Indy averages one more point a game, Seattle averages .2 more points a game, and New England averages half a point more per game than the Skins.

The differences between those teams and the Redskins is they all have top 10 defenses and their records reflect that.

Offense is not perfect but it is good enough to win games with a decent defense.

Re: Skins Viks Postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1039929]Good points there and I agree. Ritchie was one of the best, if not the best at his craft. But when his players got old ( in 93) we saw there was nothing he could do. Haslett isn't anywhere near Ritchie's class, but I don't see a Mann, Manley or DG on any of his defenses. Name one Pro Bowl type of player on defense? Maybe D. Hall...Amerson looks like a future star but he's not there yet as Allen abused him last week. Who else? No one.[/quote]

Firstly, comparing 93' Pettibon to present day Haslett is apples to oranges when you consider Pettibon had taken over as head coach by the '93 season. But in '92 - Gibbs' last year, Pettibon still had his defense playing well enough to carry the 'skins into the playoffs. The offense didn't play nearly as dominate as it was the year before and it wasn't the best of seasons, but the defense played well enough to get the 'skins into the playoffs.

Secondly, as far as pro bowl [I]type[/I] of players on this current squad - you have Ryan Kerrigan, Brian Orkapo, London Fletcher, DeAngelo Hall - all who have made the pro bowl and capable of playing at such a level. Then you have guys like Stephen Bowen has played a very high level - some might consider pro bowl level. An then you have young guys like David Amerson who keeps getting better in each game, Jarvis Jenkins shows promise. There are quality guys on that defense. It isn't a defense full of bums. Yes, it isn't a defense full of hall of famers - but there is no reason why this group on defense can't play good enough to be middle of the road. At least playing at the level they were playing at toward the end of last season. There hasn't been a huge turnover on defense. This is mostly on Haslett.

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[quote=donofriose;1039982]The offense is good enough to win games. Its not Denver but if the Redskins had a decent defense they would probably be at least a .500 team.

For instance Indy averages one more point a game, Seattle averages .2 more points a game, and New England averages half a point more per game than the Skins.

The differences between those teams and the Redskins is they all have top 10 defenses and their records reflect that.

Offense is not perfect but it is good enough to win games with a decent defense.[/quote]

Exactly.

But hey F it, it's all on Kyle.

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^^^^ Its one thing to coulda, shoulda, woulda DEFENSE, but when you have the tools and ability to score and be more on offense, than yeah it is on Kyle.

Lets renew the Shanahans and see if Robert last 5 years in the league.

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[quote=Mattyk;1039984]Exactly.

But hey F it, it's all on Kyle.[/quote]

Kyle's biggest problem is his last name is Shanahan. The whole father/son coaching tandem is just bad, it was bad sign from the beginning for Mike to hire his son. There is carryover from the Denver game where the team gave up to early on the run. That sequence of plays where #93 collapsed the pocket and sacked Griff, I think back to back, sticks in people's craw and obviously there is still a lot of emotion after going through a debacle like that last night. That has got to be a top five in terms of most painful losses in the recent Redskins era.

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[quote=donofriose;1039982]The offense is good enough to win games. Its not Denver but if the Redskins had a decent defense they would probably be at least a .500 team.

For instance Indy averages one more point a game, Seattle averages .2 more points a game, and New England averages half a point more per game than the Skins.

The differences between those teams and the Redskins is they all have top 10 defenses and their records reflect that.

Offense is not perfect but it is good enough to win games with a decent defense.[/quote]

Exactly Don. The 'skins don't need a top five defense full of hall of famers to win ball games. A 15th - 17th ranked defense would probably have this team at 6-3 right now instead of 3-6.

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[quote=SmootSmack;1039951]He's made that play several times[/quote]

SS, do you know if the offense game planning is all on Kyle or is Shanny involved as well?

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The problem and it has been a problem for a long time is the complete lack of pass rush. This has been an issue for a long time. The only defensive lineman that I can think of that was decent coming off the edge was DeMarco Coleman, who came here via free agency. Name one defensive lineman the Redskins have drafted in the last twenty years that is/was Probowl worthy?

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I wonder how bad it would be around here if the defense was run by Jim Shanahan.

Kyle's not 100% off the hook for the loss but of all our problems, are we really focusing on the one part of the team that looks somewhat competent?

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[quote=Green Monk Machine;1039985]^^^^ Its one thing to coulda, shoulda, woulda DEFENSE, but when you have the tools and ability to score and be more on offense, than yeah it is on Kyle.

Lets renew the Shanahans and see if Robert last 5 years in the league.[/quote]

It just doesn't work that way. Even the best offenses in the league are not going to score on every drive. When your defense is giving up scores on almost ever single possession, you're not going to win many ball games; I don't care how good that offense is. The old saying is and will always be true. Behind every great offense is a greater defense. Super Bowl winning teams are built on great defenses, offenses that have strong running games, and franchise quarterbacks. No matter what era of football we're in, that formula always seems to be true (well except for the case of the Redskins winning with three different quarterbacks during the Gibbs I era.)

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[quote=Chico23231;1039959]He needs to learn you cant take those 10+ yards sacks, thats on him. I agree with Morris, Garcon, Reed, and RG3 had good/great games, folks thats a nice core of skill players on offense.

The Defense seems to "fake it" sometimes, they can hid their issues fairly well. I think we need a serious up grade of talent at Slot Corner, ILB, FS, and someone to step up and consistently at SS. And im just gonna say it, but I wouldnt re sign Orakpo. Dont pay him top money, he's not worth it. So a pass rush OLB is a need.[/quote]

I agree. I know he's still coming back from injury, but really this is my only gripe with Rg3 this season. I know physically he is not what he was last year and it might take a year to get back, so I'm willing to roll with the inaccuracy at times... however its these types of decisions that kill me. Just know when to take a play and get rid of it. He's slowly getting better, but thats 101 stuff.


Also on the fake punt front, I've been wondering all year why we haven't run that. I've seen a TON of times where our gunners are left alone (as they come to block guys) and its an EASY pass and first down completion. I don't know if Rocca can't throw (looked OK last night), but that's high schoolish that if the gunner is wide open and you're at least past your own 40, they should be looking for the football.

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[quote=skinsguy;1039983]Firstly, comparing 93' Pettibon to present day Haslett is apples to oranges when you consider Pettibon had taken over as head coach by the '93 season. But in '92 - Gibbs' last year, Pettibon still had his defense playing well enough to carry the 'skins into the playoffs. The offense didn't play nearly as dominate as it was the year before and it wasn't the best of seasons, but the defense played well enough to get the 'skins into the playoffs.

Secondly, as far as pro bowl [I]type[/I] of players on this current squad - you have Ryan Kerrigan, Brian Orkapo, London Fletcher, DeAngelo Hall - all who have made the pro bowl and capable of playing at such a level. Then you have guys like Stephen Bowen has played a very high level - some might consider pro bowl level. An then you have young guys like David Amerson who keeps getting better in each game, Jarvis Jenkins shows promise. There are quality guys on that defense. It isn't a defense full of bums. Yes, it isn't a defense full of hall of famers - but there is no reason why this group on defense can't play good enough to be middle of the road. At least playing at the level they were playing at toward the end of last season. There hasn't been a huge turnover on defense. This is mostly on Haslett.[/quote]


Sorry disagree, there has been a lack of pass rush, and collapsing the pocket and this has been a hallmark of Redskins teams for a long time. Kerrigan is a decent player, probably the best on the front seven, just not an elite pass rusher. Orako is serviceable, if he was better player he would make plays, for whatever reason he does not make the play. Coaching can make a difference but the bottom line is, the players don't execute and they don't make plays. Further there is a chronic lack of discipline and a tendency to make boneheaded 15 yd penalties that have a knack of allowing the other team to score. This has happened repeatedly this season, and was a major issue last night.

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Imagine this offense with KCs defense. You would probably never hear the word Kyle...

[QUOTE=Paintrain;1039993]I wonder how bad it would be around here if the defense was run by Jim Shanahan.

Kyle's not 100% off the hook for the loss but of all our problems, are we really focusing on the one part of the team that looks somewhat competent?[/QUOTE]
Fuck Jim Shanahan too. :)

Im not really too upset with the offense (second half no show is weird but whatevs). However, is it possible that we just have alot of weapons, Griff, Almo, Garcon, Trent, Reed - and maybe that is why our offense is ranked so high? Maybe Kyles more than occassional questionable playcalls are a problem?

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[quote=punch it in;1040000]Im not really too upset with the offense (second half no show is weird but whatevs). However, is it possible that we just have alot of weapons, Griff, Almo, Garcon, Trent, Reed - and maybe that is why our offense is ranked so high? Maybe Kyles more than occassional questionable playcalls are a problem?[/quote]

So when the offense is hummin' it's because of the players.

When they falter it's on Kyle.

Got it.

What if Paulsen hauls in that TD that hit him in the hands on the first drive, or if Reed catches the TD at the end that also hit him in the hands? Still Kyle's fault?

Skins Viks Postgame
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1040001]So when the offense is hummin' it's because of the players.

When they falter it's on Kyle.

Got it.

What if Paulsen hauls in that TD that hit him in the hands on the first drive, or if Reed catches the TD at the end that also hit him in the hands? Still Kyle's fault?[/QUOTE]

Im not saying that at all. Im just tossing the theory out there. Wondering if Kyle makes the most of this offense or if someone else could make more? I dont know? I think they could be more potent though.
Edit: drops are going to happen, mistakes are going to happen. Questionable calls in big spots shouldnt happen. Pound the damn ball in the endzone when ur close.

Either way Matty Like i said i dont really have a problem with the offense.
I guess its just evaluation time of year - uh oh did i just say that?
7 in a row or we dont go!

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[quote=punch it in;1040002]Im not saying that at all. Im just tossing the theory out there. Wondering if Kyle makes the most of this offense or if someone else could make more? I dont know? I think they could be more potent though.
Edit: drops are going to happen, mistakes are going to happen. Questionable calls in big spots shouldnt happen. Pound the damn ball in the endzone when ur close.[/quote]

If they had a time out of two at the end I'm sure they would have ran it again.

Why are player mistakes or errors ok but not with play calls? It's not an exact science and there is a defense out there getting paid to stop things.

I just think it's far too easy to question the stuff that doesn't work.

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[quote=punch it in;1040003]Either way Matty Like i said i dont really have a problem with the offense.
I[B] guess its just evaluation time of year - uh oh did i just say that?[/B]
[B]7 in a row or we dont go[/B]![/quote]

uh oh don't start with that, the only thing more hated right now than Kyle is talk of a turnaround. ;)

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1040004]If they had a time out of two at the end I'm sure they would have ran it again.

Why are player mistakes or errors ok but not with play calls? It's not an exact science and there is a defense out there getting paid to stop things.

I just think it's far too easy to question the stuff that doesn't work.[/QUOTE]

It is too easy, and thats all i am doing. Questioning.
As for player errors vs playcalling? Well player errors are definitely less of a concious decision if you will. As for the lack of timeouts leading to the throws at the end - yes you are 100% rite. We really had no choice. Point taken.

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I still think we can win 8 games but that would be beating KC at home or SF. Playoffs? No

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1040005]uh oh don't start with that, the only thing more hated right now than Kyle is talk of a turnaround. ;)[/QUOTE]

Last three times we made the playoffs we went on runs. Two five in a rows and a seven. What sucks so bad about last nite is a win would have put us in a position where we really almost control our own destiny. Still with four division games left. Now seven in a row doesnt even make it a lock. Damn. Damn. And double damn.

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[quote=Mattyk;1040001]So when the offense is hummin' it's because of the players.

When they falter it's on Kyle.

Got it.

What if Paulsen hauls in that TD that hit him in the hands on the first drive, or if Reed catches the TD at the end that also hit him in the hands? Still Kyle's fault?[/quote]

Yeah; I tend to agree here. I mean I do have some issue with us just getting so far away from Morris for seemingly no reason, but I don't put all that much on Kyle. The plays in general that we complain about, are just not executed well, most are there.

I think there's plenty of blame to go around to everyone. The interior of our line is a mess too. The only guy I really can't find a mistake from was Morris. Everyone else (even Garcon who was a beast) had at least one mistake you can point too. Rg3 had a couple questionable plays, Garcon dropped a couple, Reed dropped one, TW missed a block, the other four linemen stink, Kyle abandoned the run, plenty of blame... and overall it was a decent night offensively. Just wish they could put a full game together.

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Great time to work more on pocket stuff, no more RO runs.

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[quote=punch it in;1040010]Last three times we made the playoffs we went on runs. Two five in a rows and a seven. What sucks so bad about last nite is a win would have put us in a position where we really almost control our own destiny. Still with four division games left. Now seven in a row doesnt even make it a lock. Damn. Damn. And double damn.[/quote]

I'm not counting us out. Shhh don't let anyone hear us.

But with how bad the D has been I'd be happy with 7-9 or 8-8.

Re: Skins Viks Postgame
 

Listening to 106.7 The Fan, and the fire Shanahan bandwagon is picking up steam. I think the most damning indictment though are these telltale characteristics of bad team and bad coaching that have been around from Gibbs II, Zorn, to Shanny: poor clock management, undisciplined play (unsportsmanlike, late hit penalties), lack of preparation. The fake punt debacle in which they get bailed out by their own penalty is the sign of the later.

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[quote=Mattyk;1039981]I'm not talking strictly yardage. The offense is averaging 25.6 points per game (11th) while the D is giving up 31.9 (31st). That's a problem.

As far as running it another time, sure they could have tried it, but they were also working with no time outs and Morris get stuffed on his carry. If they run it again and get stuffed more time ticks off. Shouldn't have come down to those final plays anyways.[/quote]

I'm talking at the beginning of the game. One run and then two stupid ass passes on the one yard line. Inexcusable to not either give it to Morris or have a read option play there.

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[quote=Mattyk;1040001]So when the offense is hummin' it's because of the players.

When they falter it's on Kyle.

Got it.

What if Paulsen hauls in that TD that hit him in the hands on the first drive, or if Reed catches the TD at the end that also hit him in the hands? Still Kyle's fault?[/quote]

On both of those I would say RG3 threw the ball too damn hard.

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[quote=Evilgrin;1040012]Great time to work more on pocket stuff, no more RO runs.[/quote]

I'd disagree completely. On our first drive and our last drive, why didn't we move the pocket and give a run/pass read on a play.. Especially if they are bringing a double A gap blitz, if RG breaks contain we've got numbers on the edge to get it to Reed or Hankerson. Same as late 3rd, early 4th, don't have the QB sitting there as a target when the DL is teeing off.. Move the pocket, throw in some screens.

Griffin needs more reps as a pocket passer, true, but not at the expense of developing his overall game as a passer.

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Bottom line is this staff needs to go. Tired of seeing the same old mistakes week in and week out. Sloppy stupid football doesn't cut it.

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The only problem I have with the offense is how the offensive line is currently performing, how it was developed, and how it was assembled.

They really need to stop filling in free agents on the line and try to draft some and develop them with the Redskins system.

Kyle S. has used Reed, Garcon, and Morris very well. He is not Sean Payton of play calling but let us not act like he is the main source of the problems.

I believe the Redskins are 3-6 because the OLine loses their battles, and the defensive front loses their battle.

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[quote=skinsfan69;1040020]Bottom line is this staff needs to go. Tired of seeing the same old mistakes week in and week out. Sloppy stupid football doesn't cut it.[/quote]

Total agreement, it is year four, and we have the Same old Skins, enough already. Other teams can manage the clock, are disciplined, and gasp, the defense can tackle.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1040014]I'm not counting us out. Shhh don't let anyone hear us.

But with how bad the D has been I'd be happy with 7-9 or 8-8.[/QUOTE]

Last year we were actually playing worse at 3-6. Carolina had one win i think and pitt was just the worst performance of the year.
Id imagine someone in our division had 5-6 wins also? Its really eerily similar.