Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=SBXVII;1045805]I apologize folks, I stand corrected. BUT...... If he can take the Raiders from last place in the AFC division to lead it 3 yrs in a row and post a 12-4 season? I'll take that everytime.[/quote]


Me too, Gruden was great in Oakland, and went on to bring that same energy in Tampa that Tony D was lacking, that is what we need is ENERGY from our staff

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=mbedner3420;1045504]Not to belabor the point, but wasn't Shanny as equally invested in the nfl throughout his yearlong exile? That seemingly didn't help much.

Gruden has been out of the NFL for five years, and hasn't really been actively coaching and working with players to the same degree he would have during his coaching years. I just fear that something may have been lost. Should he be hired, 3 of the past 4 coaches would have had some duration of absence from the game, and the two we've worked with have had marginal success. Granted, two instances isn't necessarily a trend, and it doesn't factor into how gruden will perform, I worry about the odds, regardless. I'd much rather try our luck with an up and comer than a retread.[/quote]

Personally, MS was out of the league and as far as I knew did nothing but visit the Steelers and Patriots to see what they were doing and how they did it.

JG has traveled to visit many teams with Monday night FB. He has had to digest the teams systems in order to babble about them all night long. His system is his system and I'm sure he probably would not change much other then to tweek it to some slight spread hybrid. I get the feeling MS let his son take the offensive wheel and he has had to step in and put his run staple on it the first two yrs to get some form of offense.

What I would like about JG is he would have big OL blocking vs. MS's smaller OL who get run over by big defenses.

Who would he bring in as DC? good question. Maybe Lovie Smith? He is a good DC but a not so good HC. Smith would bring back the Tampa Two for JG. lol.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

I'm really on the fence about this. Ask yourself this:
- If RGIII were to get hurt his knee (again) in the next 4 games, how does that help us next year?

He would still miss all of the off-season rehabing. Treat the next 4 games like preseason IMO. Yes we need to play him. Yes he needs to develop. But as far as this year goes, why risk serious injury. This guy isn't taking small shots, and getting pushed over. He has 300 lbs+ guys body slamming him, getting blindsided. He is taking a beating. Hell, the track tried to take him out against the Giants. Way more risk than reward. Besides, let Kirk go 4-0 for the last games, and trade him for a 1st rounder.....gotta be someone dumb enough.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=hagams;1045808]I'm really on the fence about this. Ask yourself this:
- If RGIII were to get hurt his knee (again) in the next 4 games, how does that help us next year?

He would still miss all of the off-season rehabing. Treat the next 4 games like preseason IMO. Yes we need to play him. Yes he needs to develop. But as far as this year goes, why risk serious injury. This guy isn't taking small shots, and getting pushed over. He has 300 lbs+ guys body slamming him, getting blindsided. He is taking a beating. Hell, the track tried to take him out against the Giants. Way more risk than reward. Besides, let Kirk go 4-0 for the last games, and trade him for a 1st rounder.....gotta be someone dumb enough.[/quote]

and this was my thinking. We all know and can agree he's not 100%... he still has the knee brace on. He's close, but not 100%. I understand development "IF" you have a decent OL who can block for you and give you time to learn all the things needed to be a pocket passer. But our OL is not blocking well, RG3 is getting punished which makes it difficult to learn anything. I'd start Cousins only for a couple reasons...1- it protects our franchise QB for next yr and allows him to finish healing, ...2- Cousins gets to show off his skills and value for a possible trade in the offseason for draft picks or for the possible new HC that steps in.

I know the latter does not sound good but... what if the new HC comes in and say's no I'm not running this spread thing and there are a couple things I don't like that RG3 does. I want Cousins who knows how to play from the pocket. Atleast he would have film to make that decision.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

Cousins could come in and get hurt just the same.

Can't worry about what might happen.

RG3 needs the reps he didn't get all offseason.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045814]Cousins could come in and get hurt just the same.

Can't worry about what might happen.

[B]RG3 needs the reps he didn't get all offseason.[/B][/quote]

Yup. In 2014 RGIII's best friend will be 2013 game reps.

That said, it is not a bad idea to give Cousins some garbage time reps, too, should a blowout occur.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

I also feel that RG3 could walk away when he hits FA if he gets benched for the rest of the season and Cousins performs worse than he does. Thus losing a potential franchise QB.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

He is still 2-3 years away from FA. I would not think if he were to spend some time on the bench in the next few games that his time in DC is almost done. That amount of time is forever in the nfl and anything can happen. Besides if he is who we think he is, he will start winning again and won't want to leave. It's all about winning.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

Well Gruden is indeed a genius. Only bright spot on ESPN Monday Night! But Cousins give the kid a chance indeed! RGIII still does not seem healed 100% of the way.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1045835]He is still 2-3 years away from FA. I would not think if he were to spend some time on the bench in the next few games that his time in DC is almost done. That amount of time is forever in the nfl and anything can happen. Besides if he is who we think he is, he will start winning again and won't want to leave. It's all about winning.[/quote]

The impression i get from RG3 is that he is insecure and the first time he gets benched or pulled is going to be bad. I feel like he is at the point where he feels entitled to be redskins starter no matter what.

I would think if Cousins gets put in for any reason, RG3 could ask for a trade..

I know McNabb isn't the voice of reason by any means, but he has alluded to this same thing a few times over the past couple of months. RG3 has always been a winner and has been very successful in college, so i'm not sure if he could handle being in a QB competition or having to earn the job after another bad year....

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

This weekend there is going to be an Alfred Morris breakout. After all the criticism Sham got for leaving the running game Alfred is going to get 25 carries. This could actually be a close game against the Chiefs.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=JPPT1974;1045849]Well Gruden is indeed a genius. Only bright spot on ESPN Monday Night! But Cousins give the kid a chance indeed! RGIII still does not seem healed 100% of the way.[/quote]


That amybe because he is still wearing that bulky brace.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1045853]The impression i get from RG3 is that he is insecure and the first time he gets benched or pulled is going to be bad. I feel like he is at the point where he feels entitled to be redskins starter no matter what.

I would think if Cousins gets put in for any reason, RG3 could ask for a trade..

I know McNabb isn't the voice of reason by any means, but he has alluded to this same thing a few times over the past couple of months. RG3 has always been a winner and has been very successful in college, so i'm not sure if he could handle being in a QB competition or having to earn the job after another bad year....[/quote]

Why would anyone think RG3 has played terrible enough to deserve a qb competition in the offseason? I mean, does anyone remember the Rex Grossman/John Beck disaster? Quite amazing what one bad season can do.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1045853]The impression i get from RG3 is that he is insecure and the first time he gets benched or pulled is going to be bad. I feel like he is at the point where he feels entitled to be redskins starter no matter what.

I would think if Cousins gets put in for any reason, RG3 could ask for a trade..

I know McNabb isn't the voice of reason by any means, but he has alluded to this same thing a few times over the past couple of months. RG3 has always been a winner and has been very successful in college, so i'm not sure if he could handle being in a QB competition or having to earn the job after another bad year....[/quote]

First of all, who's benching RGIII? Nobody. So I'm not sure why this is even being discussed.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

We're deep in the assumption room.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=mooby;1045934]Why would anyone think RG3 has played terrible enough to deserve a qb competition in the offseason? I mean, does anyone remember the Rex Grossman/John Beck disaster? Quite amazing what one bad season can do.[/quote]

If Griffin had the type of season he's having last year, I think we'd be pretty damn pleased.

He's on pace to throw for 4,000 yards and 20 TDs.

Problem is his rookie year set the bar so ridiculously high and add in the knee injury and I think most people's expectations never quite meshed with reality.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

Griffin's lack of development been exposed because the Redskins are throwing a lot more.

The Redskins are throwing a lot more because they've been trailing the whole season.

They've been trailing the whole season because they lack quality players and entire quality units, and also can't hold leads that Griffin does get them.

They lack quality players in some part because of the Griffin trade -- but also because they can't identify them.

There is a single, central problem with this team from which all the losing stems from.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1045966]Griffin's lack of development been exposed because the Redskins are throwing a lot more.

The Redskins are throwing a lot more because they've been trailing the whole season.

They've been trailing the whole season because they lack quality players and entire quality units, and also can't hold leads that Griffin does get them.

They lack quality players in some part because of the Griffin trade -- but also because they can't identify them.

There is a single, central problem with this team from which all the losing stems from.[/quote]

36 mill will do that. I think for any coach thinking about coming here, looking at our cap situation and the our starting QB, should make this job highly attractive. Thats really an unspoken positive, our contract situations with personel is outstanding.

Another attractive thing is the way of course Snyder throws money at coaching staffs...Shanny is a 7 mil per year coach?thats crazy to me.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

$110 million is plenty if you can identify good football players. And if you can't, an extra $16 million isn't going to make it any easier.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1045970]36 mill will do that. I think for any coach thinking about coming here, [B]looking at our cap situation[/B] and the our starting QB, should make this job highly attractive. Thats really an unspoken positive, our contract situations with personel is outstanding.

Another attractive thing is the way of course Snyder throws money at coaching staffs...Shanny is a 7 mil per year coach?thats crazy to me.[/quote]

What's our most expensive/onerous contract that we have? Garcon maybe? I can't think of anyone on the roster (who is sure to be here next year) that has a unwieldly contract like we've had in the past.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1045971]$110 million is plenty if you can identify good football players. And if you can't, an extra $16 million isn't going to make it any easier.[/quote]

It would help. Thats why you cant be stupid and sign an Albert Haynesworth. I think in the end could be a blessing, someone gonna come in here with an excellent situation, with alot of young guys not locked up and more important alot of old vet not locked up AND with 18 mil clear on the books. Oh and a franchise QB.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Paintrain;1045972]What's our most expensive/onerous contract that we have? Garcon maybe? I can't think of anyone on the roster (who is sure to be here next year) that has a unwieldly contract like we've had in the past.[/quote]

off the top, silverback, garcon, and Bowen stick out as big contracts

Garcon and Silverback, nice contributors. Bowen is meh in his performance.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1045974]off the top, silverback, garcon, and Bowen stick out as big contracts

Garcon and Silverback, nice contributors. Bowen is meh in his performance.[/quote]

Coming off of two average years production wise and microfracture surgery, I don't see Bowen back next year. Cofield makes big coin as well now that I think of it. He may restructure but he's a keeper, regardless of scheme.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1045974]off the top, silverback, garcon, and Bowen stick out as big contracts

Garcon and Silverback, nice contributors. Bowen is meh in his performance.[/quote]

Compared to what Mike Wallace got and the production factor thrown in I would say we got Garcon on a bargain compared to that. Silverback was a rookie and that is when they were still overpaying rookies, Bowen is an average player to me. We signed him to a 25 million dollar deal over 5 years if I remember correctly, but we will be fine as far as cap goes. This off season I really wanna see a rebuild on the defensive side.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Paintrain;1045972]What's our most expensive/onerous contract that we have? Garcon maybe? I can't think of anyone on the roster (who is sure to be here next year) that has a unwieldly contract like we've had in the past.[/quote]There's going to be a considerable amount of deadcap in 2014 from the Morgan, Fletcher, and Meriweather contracts. But that's not a long term issue, it's a one time deferred cap hit. And the only actual effect of the cap penalty on the long term health of the organization.

The issue isn't the deadcap, it's that those contracts didn't make the team any better.

Garcon and Cofield have bulky contracts, but they're both going to make the team next season. Bowen (I'm guessing) will not, because he's getting knee surgery and they can save a lot of cap by cutting him. The Garcon contract is going to look bad in hindsight, but I think that if they move on from Bowen after the season and Cofield a year from now, you could say that those contracts were cap dollars well spent.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Paintrain;1045975]Coming off of two average years production wise and microfracture surgery, I don't see Bowen back next year. Cofield makes big coin as well now that I think of it. He may restructure but he's a keeper, regardless of scheme.[/quote]

If I remember correctly, Cofield makes exactly what Bowen makes. I could be wrong but I thought they were in the 5 year 25 million range along with Josh Wilson.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

London Fletcher and Josh Morgan both bring huge savings to the skins if we part ways. I believe those two alone account for roughly 10Mil in cap space.

Carrikier and Chester would save 3M a piece if cut. Montomery would save 2M in space if cut.

Credit to Cpayne5 for these numbers. We discussed it previously and I decided to steal his hard work!

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1045978]There's going to be a considerable amount of deadcap in 2014 from the Morgan, Fletcher, and Meriweather contracts. But that's not a long term issue, it's a one time deferred cap hit. And the only actual effect of the cap penalty on the long term health of the organization.

The issue isn't the deadcap, it's that those contracts didn't make the team any better.

Garcon and Cofield have bulky contracts, but they're both going to make the team next season. Bowen (I'm guessing) will not, because he's getting knee surgery and they can save a lot of cap by cutting him. The Garcon contract is going to look bad in hindsight, but I think that if they move on from Bowen after the season and Cofield a year from now, you could say that those contracts were cap dollars well spent.[/quote]

Looks like Garcon could lead the league in receptions this year, not too shabby.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1045976]Compared to what Mike Wallace got and the production factor thrown in I would say we got Garcon on a bargain compared to that. Silverback was a rookie and that is when they were still overpaying rookies, Bowen is an average player to me. We signed him to a 25 million dollar deal over 5 years if I remember correctly, but we will be fine as far as cap goes. This off season I really wanna see a rebuild on the defensive side.[/quote]You're right with Trent's contract, nothing that could be done with that. Got the pick right, which is all that matters.

I'm not sure I'd compare Garcon to the worst contract of a different offseason. The most comparable contract in timing and size was Vincent Jackson, who was a better (though older) player, and signed a deal that was more team friendly for Tampa, in exchange for more dollars up front.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1045982]Looks like Garcon could lead the league in receptions this year, not too shabby.[/quote]Not sure it matters if he does or doesn't. With Hankerson and Reed out, there's no other place to go with the ball. So it doesn't matter if Garcon isn't in the right place, isn't catching the ball, or is getting it stripped with the game on the line: you've still got to keep throwing it to him.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1045979]If I remember correctly, Cofield makes exactly what Bowen makes. I could be wrong but I thought they were in the 5 year 25 million range along with Josh Wilson.[/quote]Cofield's contract was a year longer a half million more AAV. Wilson's deal was considerably smaller than either Cofield or Bowen. Something like 3/$13.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

More cap room gives you more room for error, just like having more picks. I find it hard to believe we couldn't have improved on the likes of Polumbus or landed a decent safety with that extra room. Maybe another WR too.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045987]More cap room gives you more room for error, just like having more picks. I find it hard to believe we couldn't have improved on the likes of Polumbus or landed a decent safety with that extra room. Maybe another WR too.[/quote]

Problem with that is when you look at last year's free agents, not really anyone that would have improved the team. Plus it isn't guaranteed that they would have transferred over based on scheme and coaching styles.

Remember Polumbus was a free agent once as well.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1045985]Not sure it matters if he does or doesn't. With Hankerson and Reed out, there's no other place to go with the ball. So it doesn't matter if Garcon isn't in the right place, isn't catching the ball, or is getting it stripped with the game on the line: you've still got to keep throwing it to him.[/quote]

Much worse contracts to WR in the last 10 years. I dont know why you cant compare it to other WRs in other years? Is that a Gtripp rule?

Lee Evans, miles austin, greg jennings, mike wallace, etc

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045987]More cap room gives you more room for error, just like having more picks. I find it hard to believe we couldn't have improved on the likes of Polumbus or landed a decent safety with that extra room. Maybe another WR too.[/quote]Could have done all that with the guys in camp in preseason too. Coaches chose to go with this group.

The safety situation seemed sloppier than the other position groups. I don't know for sure that this was their plan A, but I'm not sure who was available in August that they could have gone to get if only they had more cap dollars.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1045990]Much worse contracts to WR in the last 10 years. I dont know why you cant compare it to other WRs in other years? Is that a Gtripp rule?

Lee Evans, miles austin, greg jennings, mike wallace, etc[/quote]I mean, it's not the Laurent Robinson contract, but $8.5 mil/year for a receiver who doesn't make his QB better is generally not a great investment.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1045991]Could have done all that with the guys in camp in preseason too. Coaches chose to go with this group.

The safety situation seemed sloppier than the other position groups. I don't know for sure that this was their plan A, but I'm not sure who was available in August that they could have gone to get if only they had more cap dollars.[/quote]

Point is they could have had a better group to begin with in camp if they had an extra $18M. Same for the year before. The fact they brought in a bunch of warm bodies at RT to "compete" with Polumbus tells us how sad of a story it was.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1045994]Point is they could have had a better group to begin with in camp if they had an extra $18M. Same for the year before. The fact they brought in a bunch of warm bodies at RT to "compete" with Polumbus tells us how sad of a story it was.[/quote]Pashos in particular obviously outplayed Polumbus in the preseason. I think they really wanted to keep that group of five OL together because they anticipated it would get better (and that they could promote from within). It's gone the other direction.

The OL hasn't struggled from a lack of spending. They're spending $3, $4, and $5 million a year on their IOL starters and every member of the OL except Polumbus has made every start since Week 1 of last year. I don't know if the OL next year will be any better, but I'm pretty certain they'll spend less than this year.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

Apart from P Manning, I can't think of a single team that's gotten to the next level recently (great up to elite for example) based on FA. Brees before that. Hmmmm I see a pattern there with QBs lol. You can make the argument for Seattle here, based on Lynch, Harvin, Rice and several defensive players brought in via FA. But then you remember Rice and Harvin are non-factors, and Lynch never had this kind of success until paired with Wilson. The whole offense revolves around Wilson. And their drafted WRs are balling. Defensively, the best players are drafted guys like Sherman (6th rounder).

The point is it all comes back to the draft, with FA signings complimenting the core you build through the draft. I tried to give Mike lots of credit up to this year for building a core through the draft, but I think it's average at best given what we see. In four years he hasn't drafted a single impact WR and only one olineman (a can't miss prospect IMO). That's pathetic. Really, really pathetic.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1045995][B]Pashos in particular obviously outplayed Polumbus in the preseason.[/B] I think they really wanted to keep that group of five OL together because they anticipated it would get better (and that they could promote from within). It's gone the other direction.

The OL hasn't struggled from a lack of spending. They're spending $3, $4, and $5 million a year on their IOL starters and every member of the OL except Polumbus has made every start since Week 1 of last year. I don't know if the OL next year will be any better, but I'm pretty certain they'll spend less than this year.[/quote]

That's not really saying much is it?

I agree I think they wanted to keep the starting 5 together and build off last year, I don't think they anticipated things going south so quickly with basically 4 of those 5.