Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1079710]It's not necessarily a matter of choosing between two individuals each of whom has his weaknesses. The job description is to have [U]both[/U] FG accuracy and kickoffs that aren't returnable. The Skins should not just surrender any advantage to our opponents. They need to keep looking for a PK who can do both.

[B]Forbath should be viewed as our interim PK[/B], as far as I'm concerned. I'm fine with his FG accuracy but that's only part of the job. His KO's are substandard. We can and should do better.

Kickers kick forever, so Mr. Right Kicker for Us might be 40 years old and working as a bartender right now. I don't care where they find him. They just need to find him.[/quote]

I agree, and the same argument goes for punting. We lack franchise players in the kicking game all around.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=Mattyk;1079706]Problem with Hocker is he wasn't all that accurate in college. To win the job he needed to have a perfect summer and he didn't. Tie goes to the vet.[/quote]

But Hocker has potential.....have you seen videos of him kicking 60 yard FGs? His leg is undoubtedly stronger than Forbath's, who was far short of a perfect training camp and preseason himself.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1079710]Kickers kick forever, so Mr. Right Kicker for Us might be 40 years old and working as a bartender right now. I don't care where they find him. They just need to find him.[/quote]

Probably any random pub in Ireland.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1079799]But Hocker has potential.....have you seen videos of him kicking 60 yard FGs? His leg is undoubtedly stronger than Forbath's, who was far short of a perfect training camp and preseason himself.[/quote]

Like I said, tie goes to the vet.

Hocker didn't do anything to stake his claim as the clear winner of the competition.

And it's not like Forbath is done improving his game either.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

I could see Forbath turning into another Suisham or Gano situation. Two guys we gave up on a tad too early and they've gone on to be solid pros elsewhere.

In 2012 everyone loved Forbath, he's made nearly [B][U]88%[/U][/B] of his kicks here, and two years later everyone is ready to move on? The fickleness of fans is amazing sometimes.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

I'm cool with Forbath. I can kinda forgive the noodle leg on kickoffs so long as the accuracy on FGs stays high. Always liked him.

Come on guys, we were constantly giving up on kickers over the years and finally when we get one that's consistent albeit raw on KOs you wanna can him for the next flash in the pan? Oy...

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

I'd rather have Forbath's accuracy than Hocker's distance.
:twocents:

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1079840]I'm cool with Forbath. I can kinda forgive the noodle leg on kickoffs so long as the accuracy on FGs stays high. Always liked him.

Come on guys, we were constantly giving up on kickers over the years and finally when we get one that's consistent albeit raw on KOs you wanna can him for the next flash in the pan? Oy...[/quote]

Just wait until some guy takes a short Forbath kickoff with poor hang time back 95 yards for a TD. That will test your patience.

OK, I get it. He's accurate. He needs to continue to work on his KO's but he is improving in that area. He could be our guy. [U]However[/U], I would like it if the Skins would use the final PS spot on Hocker. Develop him, as well, and keep the pressure on Forbath.

Afterthought: I am such a mean bastard! I should be ashamed of myself. Right, Mrs. Forbath?

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1079852]Just wait until some guy takes a short Forbath kickoff with poor hang time back 95 yards for a TD. That will test your patience.

OK, I get it. He's accurate. He needs to continue to work on his KO's but he is improving in that area. He could be our guy. [U]However[/U], I would like it if the Skins would use the final PS spot on Hocker. Develop him, as well, and keep the pressure on Forbath.

Afterthought: I am such a mean bastard! I should be ashamed of myself. Right, Mrs. Forbath?[/QUOTE]
If we have continual ST breakdowns on returns it is probably more than just the kicker's fault. On paper at least they really upgraded the quality of player on the ST lines and that may have increased their comfort level with a shorter kickoff. Speaking of which, I do think ST upgrades is something national media has really missed about what Gruden is doing with this team. And that should be a big boost to both the offense and defense.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1079852][B]Just wait until some guy takes a short Forbath kickoff with poor hang time back 95 yards for a TD.[/B] That will test your patience.

OK, I get it. He's accurate. He needs to continue to work on his KO's but he is improving in that area. He could be our guy. [U]However[/U], I would like it if the Skins would use the final PS spot on Hocker. Develop him, as well, and keep the pressure on Forbath.

Afterthought: I am such a mean bastard! I should be ashamed of myself. Right, Mrs. Forbath?[/quote]

Therein lies the rub.

However, I don't know about Hocker on the PS. Hocker likely will be sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring, meaning we wouldn't need to PS him.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1079853]If we have continual ST breakdowns on returns it is probably more than just the kicker's fault. On paper at least they really upgraded the quality of player on the ST lines and that may have increased their comfort level with a shorter kickoff. Speaking of which, I do think ST upgrades is something national media has really missed about what Gruden is doing with this team. And that should be a big boost to both the offense and defense.[/quote]

No coach ever develops a comfort level with short kickoffs.

Here is the only fail-safe way to avoid long kickoff returns: Kick it through the end zone. If you kick it through the end zone, they can't return it.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=Lotus;1079854]Therein lies the rub.

However, I don't know about Hocker on the PS. Hocker likely will be sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring, meaning we wouldn't need to PS him.[/quote]

Good point about Hocker on the PS. It would probably be a waste of a PS slot.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1079856]No coach ever develops a comfort level with short kickoffs.

Here is the only fail-safe way to avoid long kickoff returns: Kick it through the end zone. If you kick it through the end zone, they can't return it.[/QUOTE]
But coaches like kickers who make 17 of 18, or their last 14. I would argue even that the fact that we kept Forbaith says the coaches do have developed some level of comfort with what his limits are. I imagine his leash on FGs will always be just a bit shorter if he starts missing many.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=Lotus;1079843]I'd rather have Forbath's accuracy than Hocker's distance.
:twocents:[/quote]

True, really wish some sort of way to carry 2. Skins touchback percentage 3rd worst in the league last year, really hurts us field position-wise.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

Teams will live with the shorter kickoffs as long as the kicker is accurate on FGs.

Better coverage always helps too, it's not all on the kicker.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

Given our inability to convert in the red one I think having the better of the FG kickers was probably the prudent move... I'm more disappointed hocker couldn't take the job.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=Mattyk;1079864]Teams will live with the shorter kickoffs as long as the kicker is accurate on FGs.

Better coverage always helps too, it's not all on the kicker.[/quote]

Im sure opposing special teams coordinators told their folks to run as many kicks out the end zone as possible against our coverage units.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

Kickoffs are only one issue for kickers with weak legs. Game-winning 53-yard field goals are another challenge, and Hocker can't fix that.

Sooner or later, we need a new kicker.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1079859]But coaches like kickers who make 17 of 18, or their last 14. I would argue even that the fact that we kept Forbaith says the coaches do have developed some level of comfort with what his limits are. I imagine his leash on FGs will always be just a bit shorter if he starts missing many.[/quote]

Yes, I suspect that what you say here is exactly right. The coaches are probably encouraged that he has improved his KO's to some degree and they know that he'll continue to work to get better at them in games. As you said, since he's not very good on KO's his leash may indeed be a bit shorter on FG's.

Actually, I expect him to be very dependable on FG's. If he continues to improve his KO's over time, I'll be altogether fine with him. I'm just tired of losing field position on kickoffs, which makes me impatient with him.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=Chico23231;1079868]Im sure opposing special teams coordinators told their folks to run as many kicks out the end zone as possible against our coverage units.[/quote]

The ones that made it into the end zone, that is. Anyway, you're probably right because we must have had the worst coverage teams in the history of the NFL last season - and I'm not exaggerating.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

The issue I have with the kicker position is that every time, the masses want us to release that kicker and we do, he goes on to become an all-pro for someone else (Akers, Suisham, Gano) We all saw what Forbath could be in 2012. While he has increased his KO length, his hangtime hasn't been elite as of yet, and that is my main issue with him, but I would hate to see him go and become a star kicker for the Jets or something.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1079852]Just wait until some guy takes a short Forbath kickoff with poor hang time back 95 yards for a TD. That will test your patience.

OK, I get it. He's accurate. He needs to continue to work on his KO's but he is improving in that area. He could be our guy. [U]However[/U], I would like it if the Skins would use the final PS spot on Hocker. Develop him, as well, and keep the pressure on Forbath.

[B]Afterthought: I am such a mean bastard! I should be ashamed of myself. Right, Mrs. Forbath?[/B][/quote]

I don't get it.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1079886]I don't get it.[/quote]

I was mean to Mrs. Forbath's son.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

How do they waive Lache Seastrunk and keep Thompson? Thompson hasn't shown anything and has proven to be injury prone......while Seastrunk has done more and had shown more.......

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1079920]How do they waive Lache Seastrunk and keep Thompson? Thompson hasn't shown anything and has proven to be injury prone......while Seastrunk has done more and had shown more.......[/quote]

Seastrunk hasn't really shown anything.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

Thompson is further along in running routes and pass pro.

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

Really liking Grudens philosophy on roster cuts. Doesn't matter where you were drafted, all that matters is the play on the field. Case in point the RB situation and the kicking battle.

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/gruden-says-redskins-roster-spots-were-earned-through-play-not-draft-position/2014/09/01/29f0a41e-321a-11e4-8f02-03c644b2d7d0_story.html?wprss=rss_redskins-page-shell&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter[/url]

Re: The Cut List 2014
 

i noticed in the last preseason game after forbath made the FG (late 1st or early 2nd quarter), he then kicked it off into the endzone. when it showed forbath it looked like he was trying not to grab the back thigh of his kicking leg.

i dont think forbath's leg is going to hold up if he continues to push his leg's abilities to get decent yardage on kickoffs.