Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=punch it in;1085264]You say several. I say a few. Every qb in the league misses every single game. The kid was aces yesterday. QB is thee last thing im worried about rite now as a Skins fan.[/quote]

agreed.
he almost set a franchise record yesterday...

special teams is disappointing... very, very disappointing.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Lotus;1085261]I was talking about several passes which were not well-placed: pointlessly behind the receiver, etc.[/quote]

Do you understand that this happens to all QB's in the course of a game? Especially when there is 48 pass attempts? Foles flat out missed a couple wide open TD passes but no one is going to question his performance yesterday.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Lotus;1085261]I was talking about several passes which were not well-placed: pointlessly behind the receiver, etc.[/quote]

One thing Keim said in one of his initial reviews was that, when KC had time or a clean pocket to step up into, he was throwing on rhythm, trusting his receivers to be where they were supposed to be, anticipating their route and throwing to their "spot."

BUT, if the rhythm got disrupted (for whatever reason), KC started throwing AT the receiver and not really anticipating their movements.

That seemed an accurate assessment to me and in line with the criticism of his play. Once he gets "out of sorts," either by actual pressure (guys in his face, etc.) or situational pressure (2 mins to go, game on the line, etc.), he seems much less effective.

Just like I am not sure RGIII can ever be a solid rhythm/pocket passer, I am not sure KC can excel unless conditions are just right.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1085266]Cousins had a better arm than I expected. He put some zip on some of those balls.

At the same time, game on the line, 1st down at the opponent's 40, the QB has to manufacture some yards.

The constant knock on Romo is that he gets greats stats, does lots of amazing stuff to get wins, but, ultimately (and consistently), can't make "the play" when it critical that he do so.

There is lots (LOTS) of blame to go around for Sundays loss. KC gets his fair share of it. My only question is: Can he improve and make "the play"? OR, as FRPLG fears, is this who he is and there ain't no more.

I reserve judgment. I think KC generally acquitted himself well in his 5th start against a good division rival on their field in a game that was a real slugfest. At the same time, to really stake a claim for the job, KC needs to take the team on his shoulders and win at crunch time.

In 2012, RGIII did that and, honestly, given a little time, I believe he will do it again. For now, however, we roll with KC and I hope he tears up the opposition (just like I hoped for RGIII).

It will be a very fortunate dilemma if at the end of this season we have 2 guys who can start and win in this league at QB.[/quote]

RG3 carried the team playing a style he no longer wants to play. And the Romo comparison is premature. Romo gets knocked for being a choker because he's still doing it 10 years into his career. KC doing it in his 5th career start makes him similar to every other QB that has ever played the game.

And I'm not sure RG3 only needs a "little time". He can't even stay healthy at this point.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1085271]One thing Keim said in one of his initial reviews was that, when KC had time or a clean pocket to step up into, he was throwing on rhythm, trusting his receivers to be where they were supposed to be, anticipating their route and throwing to their "spot."



BUT, if the rhythm got disrupted (for whatever reason), KC started throwing AT the receiver and not really anticipating their movements.



That seemed an accurate assessment to me and in line with the criticism of his play. Once he gets "out of sorts," either by actual pressure (guys in his face, etc.) or situational pressure (2 mins to go, game on the line, etc.), he seems much less effective.



Just like I am not sure RGIII can ever be a solid rhythm/pocket passer, I am not sure KC can excel unless conditions are just right.[/QUOTE]


I think Keim is being a bit general with that assessment. There were some balls that KC threw yesterday that very few other qb's in the league make. I cannot remember if the pocket broke down or not. Aikman was gushing over the kid, and he aint exactly a Redskin homer.
Furthurmore I dont give a damn how you throw for over 400 yards, and score 31 points. Just that you do it. The guy now has 3 career starts that actually meant something. The Browns from 2012 - he lit it up. The Jags and Birds from this year - he lit it up. Ive said before and ill say it again - last years sinking ship -players quitting - coaches leaving - starts mean nothing to me. BTW I am neither a KC or Griff fan. Im a Skins fan.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

Crazy: [url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000398812/article/cary-williams-chip-kelly-overworking-eagles-players]Cary Williams: Chip Kelly overworking Eagles players - NFL.com[/url]

It doesn't seem to be adversely affecting the team toward the end of the games. It doesn't make much sense -- you're too tired at the beginning of the game to get going, but you have juice int he second half?

Let's hope that this is the start of Eagles players becoming disenchanted with Kelly. Of course, that likely doesn't happen until they start losing.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=44Deezel;1085272]RG3 carried the team playing a style he no longer wants to play. [B]And the Romo comparison is premature. Romo gets knocked for being a choker because he's still doing it 10 years into his career. KC doing it in his 5th career start makes him similar to every other QB that has ever played the game. [/B]
And I'm not sure RG3 only needs a "little time". He can't even stay healthy at this point.[/quote]

And, of course, the dilemma faced by the team is: "Is KC just making mistakes b/c it is his 5th start [B][I]or[/I][/B] is he a Romo in the making?"

As for RGIII, that's two separate points: "Can he stay healthy?" and "How much time does he need to become comfortable as a pocket passer? if he ever can??"

Problem is that: (1) Because we can only pay for one starting QB, we have pretty much [I]one year [/I]to decide on which one is the franchise's future for the next five years or so; (2) It is unlikely that, in that one year, either will [I]definitively[/I] answer the questions surrounding them as they can only be answered over the long term; and (3) It may be that NEITHER is the long term answer.

Ultimately, at this point, after the last 25 years, I have complete faith that this franchise will find a way to make all the wrong choices [I]and [/I]maximize those bad choices into a worst case scenario.

For now, however, pass the Kool-Aid and HTTR.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

My biggest fear is that neither of these guys is the answer and I hate you JR for bringing that fear up. Lol.
Honestly I thought about that yesterday during the game. What if KC just comes down to Earth and we are waiting for Griff to come back and save the day (for the third time). Ugghh.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Lotus;1085251]I just don't get the black-or-white world you live in.

RGIII is one of our QB's. I support and cheer for him and, when deserved, criticize him. Because he is one of our QB's, I never root for him to fail.

Cousins is one of our QB's. I support and cheer for him and, when deserved, criticize him. Because he is one of our QB's, I never root for him to fail.

I know that I am not the only one who feels this way.[/quote]

You are preaching to the choir. I am not a Cousins or RGIII fan, I am a Redskins fan first.
What makes me look like a die hard Cousins fan and anti-RGIII is the criticism Cousins is getting after playing a game that a Redskins QB has not had in years. That is all. While I think cousins had a good game, not perfect, I am surprised some are blaming Cousins and call that performance less than mediocre.
While everyone is entitled to their opinions. some of the opinions of blaming Cousins I thought was a little crazy and heav handed.
I have never claimed Cousins or RGIII is a sure thing. We do not know if either will be franchise worthy.
I will say this: I was losing my patience with the post 2nd ACL injury version of RGIII> Although I never ever voiced it on this site. RGIII was not the same guy as the pre-ACL injury.
All I wanted is to give Cousins a chance to see what he has. That is all and I will defend a good performance of any player.
I did however voice my opinion of frustration with RGIII' s inconsistent play after RGIII dislocated his ankle.
I also feel strongly that RGIII has to earn his starting spot, not just give to him when he can play. Every position on the field should be earned.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

I mean c'mon guys. Any one saying that either RGIII or KC is the definitive answer at this point is just being silly. Any one saying that either RGIII or KC is definitively better than the other is just being silly.

KC had a great game [I]but[/I] ...
RGIII is incredibly talented [I]but[/I]

In 2016, one of them (at least) will not be here. I just don't think three games into Gruden's first year is the time to be making that call.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

There is also another element to this discussion. Although some qb's do carry their teams to championships. Manning and the Colts, Brees and the Saints. Sometimes you do not need to have a hof QB to win one. It just might turn out that a solid oline and better D can help either guy become the next Eli Manning, Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1085270][B]Do you understand that this happens to all QB's in the course of a game?[/B] Especially when there is 48 pass attempts? Foles flat out missed a couple wide open TD passes but no one is going to question his performance yesterday.[/quote]

Of course I understand that. Hence my comment that Cousins was doing it MORE.

I'm not willing to give KC free passes the way other people are. If he was off-target, I say he was off-target. I do the same for RGIII.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1085284]I mean c'mon guys. Any one saying that either RGIII or KC is the definitive answer at this point is just being silly. Any one saying that either RGIII or KC is definitively better than the other is just being silly.

KC had a great game [I]but[/I] ...
RGIII is incredibly talented [I]but[/I]

In 2016, one of them (at least) will not be here. I just don't think three games into Gruden's first year is the time to be making that call.[/quote]

:food-smil to being rational

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

I'm not going to do it, and I'm not comparing the players-just the situation. But I suppose we were saying the same things about Ramsey early in his career. "He's only played a few games" "Of course he'll get better"...but he never did

Let's hope Cousins does

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1085284]I mean c'mon guys. Any one saying that either RGIII or KC is the definitive answer at this point is just being silly. Any one saying that either RGIII or KC is definitively better than the other is just being silly.

KC had a great game [I]but[/I] ...
RGIII is incredibly talented [I]but[/I]

In 2016, one of them (at least) will not be here. [B]I just don't think three games into Gruden's first year is the time to be making that call.[/B][/quote]

Three games into Gruden's first year is the time to clean house at QB and start the Glorious Caleb Hanie Era.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1085290]I'm not going to do it, and I'm not comparing the players-just the situation. But I suppose we were saying the same things about Ramsey early in his career. "He's only played a few games" "Of course he'll get better"...but he never did



Let's hope Cousins does[/QUOTE]


Imo Cousins has already shown so much more than Ramsey ever did. I cannot say I remember his first few starts but I do not ever remember thinking he "had it".

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

I dunno, I think the "KC may be the next Rex Grossman" is more likely than "KC is the next Pat Ramsey." Ramsay was never as decisive as KC. Someone, somewhere said, "KC decides where he is going with the ball when he breaks the huddle. That's both his strength and his weakness."

Ramsey, well, he had a kick-ass arm.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

Well to put our QB situation in context go around the league and look at the trash we almost got: Jake Locker = still looks lost, best oline in the league, cant stay healthy, resembles a garbage can in the pocket. Ponder = 3rd string piece of sh*t, fooled a bunch of dumbass scouts. Tannehill = on the verge of losing his job, cant put it together, his numbers are terrible. Sam "Body cast" Bradford = not great when he played, more qualified to be a doctor than a qb

Those effing teams would poison their own QB to have Cousins or RG3

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1085294]I dunno, I think the "KC may be the next Rex Grossman" is more likely than "KC is the next Pat Ramsey." Ramsay was never as decisive as KC. Someone, somewhere said, "KC decides where he is going with the ball when he breaks the huddle. That's both his strength and his weakness."

Ramsey, well, he had a kick-ass arm.[/quote]

Like I said, not talking about the players. Talking about the situation. My point is some people just don't get better. Will Cousins? I don't know. I sure hope so. But it's naive to just assume he will, which I think is what a lot of people here are doing

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

The iggles put up 37 points on us. Tough for any QB to win in that situation. And few teams can spot opponents 10 points because of ST gaffs and win.

I'm much less worried about the offense if they can put up 34 with an inexperienced backup on the road. And I don't think the iggles ever really stopped the O as much as a few missed passes/WR reads stopped the O. We'll find out about KC/RGIII in the long run.

But we're gonna need more bodies on D, especially in the secondary. We don't seem to have anyone capable of playing free safety, a crucial spot in the Pitt style D we play. We are very inexperienced/weak and corner now. And Ryan Clark, who I really like so far, is near the end of his career. I think this won't get fixed this year--but it's obviously a priority in FA/draft next year. So this means were going to continue to give up big pass plays to good teams, teams who can keep our much-improved front 7 off the QB. Get used to it: we were 3-13 last year; getting to 6-10/7-9 is a VERY big improvement, though I think we might see it. But getting beyond that requires a secondary.

I like Gruden's offense so far, and it was great to see DJax getting his moment there. Too bad we couldn't pull it out. Niles Paul was good again. Loved to see the big plays--nice screen to Helu. We put some hits on Foles but he stood tall and we never got that crucial INT. Great strip fumble, though. Fun game to watch as a football fan. Tough to lose, as a Redskins fan. F*** Philly.

Too bad about the short week, but we NEED this next one. Unfortunately, the half-assed Texans gave the gints new life there. They ran the ball well, pressured the QB, etc. Still, they are eminently beatable. Please skins, don't s*** the bed on Thursday!!!

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=JWsleep;1085299]Too bad about the short week, but we NEED this next one. Unfortunately, the half-assed Texans gave the gints new life there. They ran the ball well, pressured the QB, etc. Still, they are eminently beatable. Please skins, don't s*** the bed on Thursday!!![/quote]

I'm actually glad the Giants got their "W" yesterday. As sorry as they've been so far in the season, I would not have wanted to play them while they were in desperate mode. Hopefully they'll still have a hangover from their big win.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

Todays NFL is all about those end of game drives, and whoever has the ball last has to get it done.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1085253][/B]
So after 5 starts and really no work with first team you're saying this is what he is as a QB? You don't think the timing with Garcon, DJax and co will improve? Or maybe you prefer that high school offense we saw week one. Actually I really hope you're right cause if KC is what we saw yesterday then he's a Pro Bowl QB. For this week, what should have been 37 points on the road is something any NFL team would take. At least for this week, I can not blame the offense or Cousins for the loss.[/quote]

I too am hoping that some of that gets better the more he works with the first unit. My evaluation, for what's it worth, is that he was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. He has historically, in both the pros and college, faced bouts on inaccuracy and bad decision making. He has a little bit of gunslinger in him. That can work for a team if there is something that can augment it into a value..like mobility. What I saw yesterday was a guy who can make throws, understands the offense, and has confidence. What I also saw was a guy who flat out missed pretty easy throws in the 4th quarter that had to be made. Throws that guys like Rodgers/Brees/Manning/Brady make. The type of QB Cousins is has to be at that level for us to win. He has to be a play-maker with his arm and he can't do that by missing 5-yard outs.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1085298]Like I said, not talking about the players. Talking about the situation. My point is some people just don't get better. Will Cousins? I don't know. I sure hope so. But it's naive to just assume he will, which I think is what a lot of people here are doing[/quote]

Exactly. When I say I am "afraid that is what he is" I mean this. What we saw yesterday matched what he was in college...he hasn't gotten better since then. For sure he can probably be a solid QB in the league. But I don't want Grossman/Schaub/Palmer. I want a guy who carries the team when needed. We'll see. I sincerely hope he can be that. We should be happy to deal with the controversy crap involving Robert when he comes back if it means Kirk has turned the corner and is growing beyond what we saw yesterday.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Chico23231;1085297]Well to put our QB situation in context go around the league and look at the trash we almost got: Jake Locker = still looks lost, best oline in the league, cant stay healthy, resembles a garbage can in the pocket. Ponder = 3rd string piece of sh*t, fooled a bunch of dumbass scouts. Tannehill = on the verge of losing his job, cant put it together, his numbers are terrible. Sam "Body cast" Bradford = not great when he played, more qualified to be a doctor than a qb

Those effing teams would poison their own QB to have Cousins or RG3[/quote]

Poison hahahaha

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

Anyway it's surprising how JoeRedskin is willing to give Cousins all the patience he never gave RG3. Cousins throws a pick that's understandable. rG3 throws a pick he is a bad QB. I don't hate Cousins I am just keeping Joe honest. Anyway we need to beat the Giants.

cousins won't be able to overthrow RG3 by losing.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

Ya know, I think the Eagles game showed exactly who we as a franchise are RIGHT NOW. Every strength (depth, lots of offensive threats, good run stopping) and every weakness (penalties, ST, crunch time awareness) was highlighted. Probably the 2 surprising things that didn't show up, were our two strongest attributes - pass rush, and rushing, which without watching tape, I imagine Philly gave special emphasis to those two things to prevent them from being the reason Philly lost. Imagine gameplanning to take away the strengths of your opponent - How RUDE!

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1085313]Anyway it's surprising how JoeRedskin is willing to give Cousins all the patience he never gave RG3. Cousins throws a pick that's understandable. rG3 throws a pick he is a bad QB. I don't hate Cousins I am just keeping Joe honest. Anyway we need to beat the Giants.

cousins won't be able to overthrow RG3 by losing.[/quote]

Whoa now, JR was (and is) a huge RG3 fan. If you are gonna call someone out, at least try and get facts straight. Would you try posting links to JR calling out RGIII???

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1085315]Whoa now, JR was (and is) a huge RG3 fan. If you are gonna call someone out, at least try and get facts straight. Would you try posting links to JR calling out RGIII???[/quote]

Ok well substitute Joe's name for Heath Evans.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

as a huge griffin fan (and cousins, for what its wroth) and someone who thinks people are being way too hard on him...

cousins play concerned me yesterday...

only because i'm concerned no matter what decision we make, it may not be the right one :(

would suck to watch either go and have a successful 10+ year career somewhere else while we continued to suck with bad qb play...

i'm just used to this organization making bad decisions :(

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1085317]Ok well substitute Joe's name for Heath Evans.[/quote]

Who gives a f*** about heath evans? Anyone around? No.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1085317]Ok well substitute Joe's name for Heath Evans.[/quote]

You're still drunk today? Must have been a heck of a party.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=FRPLG;1085308]I too am hoping that some of that gets better the more he works with the first unit. My evaluation, for what's it worth, is that he was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. He has historically, in both the pros and college, faced bouts on inaccuracy and bad decision making. He has a little bit of gunslinger in him. That can work for a team if there is something that can augment it into a value..like mobility. What I saw yesterday was a guy who can make throws, understands the offense, and has confidence. What I also saw was a guy who flat out missed pretty easy throws in the 4th quarter that had to be made. Throws that guys like Rodgers/Brees/Manning/Brady make. The type of QB Cousins is has to be at that level for us to win. He has to be a play-maker with his arm and he can't do that by missing 5-yard outs.[/quote]

Winner winner chicken dinner. Spot on.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

I thought Cousins was great yesterday. Yeah, he should have made those throws at the end, but he never should have been in the position where he had to win the game there in the first place. He carried the team the whole day, with the defense sucking for the most part and the special teams giving up a touchdown and missing a short FG. If the defense had been at least solid and the special teams had been mistake free... for once... he wouldn't have had to have been counted on as the comeback hero and we would have won in a cakewalk. Cousins was the least of the problems yesterday, in my opinion.

Now, if he stays a starter, he'll eventually be counted on to win games no matter how bad his team around him plays, but putting this loss on him is unreasonable, considering he only has a few starts under his belt and was one of the biggest reasons the team was even in position to win.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Lotus;1085325]You're still drunk today? Must have been a heck of a party.[/quote]

It was, I heard it was one of those infamous "celebrating the loss" parties.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=FRPLG;1085308]I too am hoping that some of that gets better the more he works with the first unit. My evaluation, for what's it worth, is that he was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. He has historically, in both the pros and college, faced bouts on inaccuracy and bad decision making. He has a little bit of gunslinger in him. That can work for a team if there is something that can augment it into a value..like mobility. What I saw yesterday was a guy who can make throws, understands the offense, and has confidence. What I also saw was a guy who flat out missed pretty easy throws in the 4th quarter that had to be made. Throws that guys like Rodgers/Brees/Manning/Brady make. [B]The type of QB Cousins is has to be at that level for us to win. He has to be a play-maker with his arm and he can't do that by missing 5-yard outs.[/quote]
[/B]
Well I can tell you this, all those guys missed open WR's yesterday, as did Foles.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=SirLK26;1085328]I thought Cousins was great yesterday. Yeah, he should have made those throws at the end, but he never should have been in the position where he had to win the game there in the first place. He carried the team the whole day, with the defense sucking for the most part and the special teams giving up a touchdown and missing a short FG. If the defense had been at least solid and the special teams had been mistake free... for once... he wouldn't have had to have been counted on as the comeback hero and we would have won in a cakewalk. Cousins was the least of the problems yesterday, in my opinion.

Now, if he stays a starter, he'll eventually be counted on to win games no matter how bad his team around him plays, but putting this loss on him is unreasonable, considering he only has a few starts under his belt and was one of the biggest reasons the team was even in position to win.[/quote]

pretty much sums it up

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=mooby;1085335]It was, I heard it was one of those infamous "celebrating the loss" parties.[/quote]

We are the losers, my friend. And we'll keep on losing, til the end...

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

Cousins has to learn how to finish. He threw several amazing passes yesterday, but with starting field position at the Eagles 41 and two full minutes, a winning QB has to be able to get at least one first down to get into tying FG range. That was simply pathetic. Lastly, I don't care how many consecutive FGs Forbath had hit. You CANNOT miss a go-ahead 33 yard FG in the 4th quarter. If his leg is too weak or injured for kick-off duty, he has to be automatic inside 40 yards. Period.

Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

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