Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1093583]It will be a damn shame if Rak leaves for a 4-3 defense and kicks ass, which he will, and then we switch to a 4-3. It'd be quintessential Redskins though.[/quote]

We need to stop making personnel moves based on fear of a player doing better somewhere else.
We need to stop worrying about "winning the RGIII trade with St. Louis."
This is the kind of shit loser teams do. You hear me Dan Snyder?
We need to get back to football basics, finish building the offensive line and secondary. STOP signing big salary WR's and LB (Rak).
There are no Superbowl Champions that had weak offensive lines and secondary. But that has been our formula for some odd reason.
Stop listening to what the NFL FO wants, "the NFL is a passing league."
That is what they want that is not what wins championships.
Great Defense and great offensive line to able to run and create time for the QB to pass is key.
I will gladly drive RAK to the airport to get the $11.45million cap space back to sign a RT and FS.
One last thing we have done under DS that drives me nuts: play the best player available. Stop setting your roster and depth chart based on where a player was drafted or what is invested in him or who will sell more tickets. Bring out the best 11 that gives us the best chance to win. That will sell tickets.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=SirLK26;1093560]Who doesn't want a fairytale ending here, with Gruden committing to Griffin and Griffin responding with 10 years of outstanding quarterback play and a Super Bowl or two? That said, [B]if it actually comes down to a choice between the two, Gruden should be the guy to stay IMO. Griffin is the closest thing we've had to a franchise quarterback in a long time, but he'll likely never reach that potential if we keep changing coaches.[/B] I love what I see out of Gruden and definitely think he's capable of finding a quarterback he's comfortable with(even if not as talented as Griffin) and then winning.[/quote]

What is all this support for Gruden over RGIII? RGIII had an outstanding rookie year that showed what he is capable of doing for this franchise. Gruden has proven nothing.

I'm sure that Dan Snyder didn't hire Gruden to shoe-horn RGIII into Gruden's preferred offense and try to turn RGIII into Andy Dalton (who, to me, is a pedestrian NFL QB). If Gruden doesn't find out how to properly use RGIII's talents and the Redskins continue to lose on his watch, then he'll be the one who is shown the door.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Defensewins;1093589]We need to stop making personnel moves based on fear of a player doing better somewhere else.
[B]We need to stop worrying about "winning the RGIII trade with St. Louis[/B]."
This is the kind of shit loser teams do. You hear me Dan Snyder?
We need to get back to football basics, finish building the offensive line and secondary. STOP signing big salary WR's and LB (Rak).
There are no Superbowl Champions that had weak offensive lines and secondary. But that has been our formula for some odd reason.
Stop listening to what the NFL FO wants, "the NFL is a passing league."
That is what they want that is not what wins championships.
Great Defense and great offensive line to able to run and create time for the QB to pass is key.
I will gladly drive RAK to the airport to get the $11.45million cap space back to sign a RT and FS.
One last thing we have done under DS that drives me nuts: play the best player available. Stop setting your roster and depth chart based on where a player was drafted or what is invested in him or who will sell more tickets. Bring out the best 11 that gives us the best chance to win. That will sell tickets.[/quote]

Good post, and yeah winning the trade is just a crap thing to dwell on. Organizations like the Seasquawks and Pats take their lumps and move on...thats what great organizations do.

The one thing that really hit home is the "NFL is a passing league". Everytime I start to believe it might be, another team wins the Superbowl based on running the ball and strong defense...recently Seattle and Baltimore

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1093583]It will be a damn shame if Rak leaves for a 4-3 defense and kicks ass, which he will, and then we switch to a 4-3. It'd be quintessential Redskins though.[/quote]


Considering he wasn't even a DE in a 4-3 when we had one with Zorn, what makes you think he's going to be a DE now?

He isn't.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1093602]Considering he wasn't even a DE in a 4-3 when we had one with Zorn, what makes you think he's going to be a DE now?

He isn't.[/quote]

I tried looking for video evidence of Rak's first season in 2009 but I have been unable to find any. But I feel like if my memory is correct Greg Blache ran a pretty bland 4-3 that year. That's not to say all his sacks came when he had his hand in the dirt but I feel like the majority did. And he played as a lineman in college too, and wasn't projected to be a linebacker in the NFL. I wouldn't be surprised if he went back to a 4-3 team and fulfilled his potential, but right now I don't feel like we're getting the most out of him in his current alignment.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1093602]Considering he wasn't even a DE in a 4-3 when we had one with Zorn, what makes you think he's going to be a DE now?

He isn't.[/quote]

Um... What?

He switched to OLB when Shanny arrived. He had his hand in the dirt plenty his first year with us. He was moved around a little, so would sometimes rush from a standing position. But he was a 4-3 DE his first year.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/greg-cosell-s-film-review--the-question-of-the-mobile-quarterback-185345656.html[/url]

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1093637][url]http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/greg-cosell-s-film-review--the-question-of-the-mobile-quarterback-185345656.html[/url][/quote]

Why is RG3 still having problems reading defense pre snap? This sums it up and what I see on the regular from RG3:

Griffin had what any quarterback would want: Jackson one-on-one with no help on a three-step drop route. Griffin just kept drifting backward with no idea what he had, [B]creating his own pressure[/B], then threw the ball away.

And I see this constantly:

Even a big play showed, if you watched closely, [B]that Griffin needs to improve in pocket awareness and perceiving pressure that isn't there. The Vikings had a tackle/end stunt, Griffin saw the color of the other team and immediately broke down[/B]

But all we can say is 'oh the oline is horrible". Ive seen multiple times where there is no pressure, but RG3 holds the ball too long and creates pressure.

Im starting to believe RG3 isnt as bright as I originially thought. He should understand pre snap defense by now.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

Griffin still doesn't seem to trust his passing down field. Honestly maybe he's just not that great of a passer, sucks but this is his 3rd season and he hasn't really done that much, obviously he's always hurt so that doesn't help either.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Skinzman;1093636]Um... What?

He switched to OLB when Shanny arrived. He had his hand in the dirt plenty his first year with us. He was moved around a little, so would sometimes rush from a standing position. But he was a 4-3 DE his first year.[/quote]

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-pfworakpo070209]Redskins rookie Orakpo adjusts to double duty - NFL - Yahoo Sports[/url]


[quote]The Redskins coaches plan to use Orakpo as a stand-up strong-side linebacker on running downs and as a defensive end on passing downs this season. This means learning two spots, including one that Orakpo never played in college at Texas.[/quote]

Both are right. He played OLB on running downs and DE on passing downs.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

I never understood why they put him as a 4-3 OLB.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=donofriose;1093646]I never understood why they put him as a 4-3 OLB.[/quote]

Two sarcastic words: Thanks Vinny!

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1093638]Why is RG3 still having problems reading defense pre snap? This sums it up and what I see on the regular from RG3:

Griffin had what any quarterback would want: Jackson one-on-one with no help on a three-step drop route. Griffin just kept drifting backward with no idea what he had, [B]creating his own pressure[/B], then threw the ball away.

And I see this constantly:

Even a big play showed, if you watched closely, [B]that Griffin needs to improve in pocket awareness and perceiving pressure that isn't there. The Vikings had a tackle/end stunt, Griffin saw the color of the other team and immediately broke down[/B]

But all we can say is 'oh the oline is horrible". Ive seen multiple times where there is no pressure, but RG3 holds the ball too long and creates pressure.

Im starting to believe RG3 isnt as bright as I originially thought. He should understand pre snap defense by now.[/quote]

RG3 is obviously a smart guy. But his football smarts, or instincts are not real high. See Rodgers last night? He's just got natural instincts when he's dropping back and scrambling. You see it in all the great QB's. Even Brady, who's slow as a turtle, he has great awareness as to what's going on around him. Griffin just doesn't have those skills. I don't think that means he can't be a good QB, but he has a long way to go. Maybe with more playing time he gets better at some of this stuff.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

Rak has been here long enough. He's just an average player. I think 6 years is a big enough sample size. 4-3 or 3-4 isn't going to make him a great player. Wasn't there a stat floating around out there that Rak barely has any sacks against NFC East competition?

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1093658]RG3 is obviously a smart guy. But his football smarts, or instincts are not real high. See Rodgers last night? He's just got natural instincts when he's dropping back and scrambling. You see it in all the great QB's. Even Brady, who's slow as a turtle, he has great awareness as to what's going on around him. Griffin just doesn't have those skills. I don't think that means he can't be a good QB, but he has a long way to go. Maybe with more playing time he gets better at some of this stuff.[/quote]

Yeah i kinda agree on the scrambling and pocket awarness...thats the damn problem with spread QB coming out of college. They dont have that experience under center and reading defenses. Thats why the Baylors and TCU are crap football...they teach really bad fucking habits.

You should have heard the Jordy Nelson interview today on Dan Patrick. Rodgers orchestras the Packers offense by reading the defense, checking for a play and waiting to see if the defense then will check with a response. Nelson says immediately after the his first step after the snap, they will know everything the defense will do and the WRs will know routes to runs, based on the initial defense movement.

Nelson explained the blown coverage where he caught the TD, he said he and Rodgers could tell immediately that 2 out of the 11 Bears defense did not get the right check down to a cover 2, so Nelson ran a go for a TD.

Now in that case, thats not natural instinct...thats experience, tape study, and good coaching. Also Rodgers has to be receptive to that coaching

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Skinzman;1093636]Um... What?

He switched to OLB when Shanny arrived. He had his hand in the dirt plenty his first year with us. He was moved around a little, so would sometimes rush from a standing position. But he was a 4-3 DE his first year.[/quote]

I do believe you are correct sir, Rak spent a lot of time at DE his first year with some snaps at OLB in the 4-3.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/brianorakpo/71423/profile]Brian Orakpo, OLB for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com[/url]

And it was his best year. Regardless, seems like common sense Rak is a better fit as a 4-3 DE.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1093590][B]What is all this support for Gruden over RGIII? RGIII had an outstanding rookie year that showed what he is capable of doing for this franchise. Gruden has proven nothing.[/B]

I'm sure that Dan Snyder didn't hire Gruden to shoe-horn RGIII into Gruden's preferred offense and try to turn RGIII into Andy Dalton (who, to me, is a pedestrian NFL QB). If Gruden doesn't find out how to properly use RGIII's talents and the Redskins continue to lose on his watch, then he'll be the one who is shown the door.[/quote]

Fair enough, but in this hypothetical world where Gruden gets fired, how long are we going to hire new head coaches and force them to either succeed with Griffin or get fired as well? Should Griffin be tenured as our starting QB based off one season that gets farther away every year?

Regardless, the book on Griffin is nowhere close to being closed. We've barely even finished the first chapter. There's still plenty of time for Gruden and Griffin to turn this thing around and start winning.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=SirLK26;1093664]Fair enough, but in this hypothetical world where Gruden gets fired, how long are we going to hire new head coaches and force them to either succeed with Griffin or get fired as well? Should Griffin be tenured as our starting QB based off one season that gets farther away every year?

Regardless, the book on Griffin is nowhere close to being closed. We've barely even finished the first chapter. There's still plenty of time for Gruden and Griffin to turn this thing around and start winning.[/quote]

I'm so over 2012. That book is long closed. That isn't the best RG3 we should want anyway. To me RG3 has the rest of this season, and probably goes into 2015 camp as the incumbent. But if he's up and down the rest of this year, I wouldn't mind seeing some competition at the QB position.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1093663]I do believe you are correct sir, Rak spent a lot of time at DE his first year with some snaps at OLB in the 4-3.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/player/brianorakpo/71423/profile]Brian Orakpo, OLB for the Washington Redskins at NFL.com[/url]

And it was his best year. Regardless, seems like common sense Rak is a better fit as a 4-3 DE.[/quote]

He had 4 sacks against a bad Raiders team his rookie year which skewed his numbers a bit. He only played DE on 3rd downs.

He's made multiple Pro Bowls as a 3-4 backer, at this point that's what he is. Hard to see him making a change IMO.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1093681]He had 4 sacks against a bad Raiders team his rookie year which skewed his numbers a bit. He only played DE on 3rd downs.

He's made multiple Pro Bowls as a 3-4 backer, at this point that's what he is. Hard to see him making a change IMO.[/quote]

I still think Orakpo would be a better 4-3 DE than anything else. While hes not bad in pass coverage, he is better suited to go after the ball every play imo. I also believe he is a better rusher starting in a 3 or 4 point stance since he relies so much on the bull rush. A lot would also depend on how well he played the run.

Its a pretty moot point though since it wont happen with us. He is just not worth the money he wants as a 3-4 OLB in our system. It also doesnt appear that we are switching defenses to a 4-3, and even if we did, I dont want to see us spend that money to experiment with him there given his injury history. I still expect him to have played his last play for us and move on in the offseason.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

Is there evidence Orakpo wants big money? I understand going into the year why he did, but at this point he has to realize why we can't commit a big time contract to him.

Anyway he comes back a little cheaper? I'm sure he'll still make plenty...

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=sevier2;1093689]Is there evidence Orakpo wants big money? I understand going into the year why he did, but at this point he has to realize why we can't commit a big time contract to him.

Anyway he comes back a little cheaper? I'm sure he'll still make plenty...[/quote]

No, no, and no. Unless he wants to get paid $35 and a 2 piece from Popeyes he can go jump in a lake head first

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

What KIND of Popeye's Quake? Leg and breast or just two thighs? Important stuff here! :D

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;1093709]What KIND of Popeye's Quake? Leg and breast or just two thighs? Important stuff here! :D[/QUOTE]


Its actually two pecs

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

HA.

Serious note: is it because he grabs people with one arm while setting the edge? I wonder if that's what causes the pec tearing.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=SirLK26;1093664]Fair enough, but in this hypothetical world where Gruden gets fired, how long are we going to hire new head coaches and force them to either succeed with Griffin or get fired as well? Should Griffin be tenured as our starting QB based off one season that gets farther away every year?

Regardless, the book on Griffin is nowhere close to being closed. We've barely even finished the first chapter. There's still plenty of time for Gruden and Griffin to turn this thing around and start winning.[/quote]

I didn't mention any time frame but I suppose we'd be talking at least one more season after this one before any decisions are made about either man. If Gruden wins, I doubt that anyone, including Dan Snyder, would care who is the starting QB.

As long as Gruden continues to lose, it would probably be better for his career to be making progress with RGIII at QB. That's because I'm sure that Dan Snyder would love to have a star QB with national marketability. Snyder might be willing to go through the losing to get that. On the other hand, losing with just "some guy" at QB while RGIII sits on the bench would almost certainly be unacceptable to Snyder.

Of course, building a winner is a lot more complicated than developing one player. It might be better for Gruden if Dan Snyder were more like Jack Kent Cooke. Cooke was a bottom line man. If you lose, you're going to get fired - and soon. He didn't care how you went about your job, including who played QB, and he would give you the resources you needed to win but you had better win if you wanted to keep your job.

No matter who the owner may be, we all know that it ultimately comes down to wins and losses for the HC. Since that is the reality, Gruden could say "**** it, I'm playing Colt" and if he were to win with Colt, he would become a hero in D.C. Let him try that if he has the stones.

To finally answer your question: There is no need to force any HC to succeed with Griffin. Nevertheless, we need to go through as many HC's as is necessary until we find that special coach who can mould us into perennial contenders for a decade or more.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1093709]What KIND of Popeye's Quake? Leg and breast or just two thighs? Important stuff here! :D[/quote]

He is only worth 2 legs.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1093711]HA.

Serious note: is it because he grabs people with one arm while setting the edge? I wonder if that's what causes the pec tearing.[/quote]

That's interesting. And he's tore both sides right?

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

Just read the link to the DJax story Matty put up. Haven't heard many success stories about Redskins free agents. A good reminder of excellent work by the front office moving quickly and signing a prime of career probowl player to the right contract.

Good work, Bruce and team...

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1093711]HA.

Serious note: is it because he grabs people with one arm while setting the edge? I wonder if that's what causes the pec tearing.[/quote]

Could be an issue of just too much muscle mass. Keenan Robinson thought that was possibly the issue with his pec injuries.

[quote]While he has adjusted his preparation since the season began, Robinson pointed to his work in the offseason as the foundation for his current health. He altered his weight-lifting regimen and incorporated new stretches to build flexibility and help protect his previously torn pecs, a departure from his days at Texas, where Robinson said there was an emphasis on heavy lifting.

“In college, I think I was too strong,” he explained. “Shoot, me and [Brian Orakpo] both. [Jackson] Jeffcoat will tell you we did a lot of heavy benching, heavy squat. I don’t know if that’s why we had our pec issues, but I think we were really, I don’t want to say tightly wound, but really muscle-bound up top.”

Robinson said he didn’t notice that aspect of his training until the injuries hit. This offseason, he spent more time building the muscles surrounding his pecs for additional support.

“It’s just full-body training,” Robinson said. “Making sure I focus on every single little muscle and not just the big muscles, the pecs and the muscles that you see. The muscles that you don’t see need to be trained in order to support the bigger muscles.”

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/29/keenan-robinson-healthy-last-bringing-thump-redski/?page=all]Keenan Robinson, healthy at last, bringing the 'thump' for Redskins - Washington Times[/url][/quote]

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

I am surprised there isn't more talk about how we look coming out of the bye week. It's a critical game, always. Good coaches and their team come out looking sharp and extremely well prepared after the bye week. Bad coaches and their team look disorganized after the bye, like nobody practiced.

Looking for Gruden and Co. to have a really strong showing this week, or I suspect he'd be on the hot seat. And if Gruden's butt is burning, shouldn't Allen's too?

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/12733/redskins-turnaround-reasons-for-hope]Washington Redskins turnaround: Reasons for hope - ESPN[/url]

Pretty good article

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Mattyk;1093717]Could be an issue of just too much muscle mass. Keenan Robinson thought that was possibly the issue with his pec injuries.[/quote]

Ahhh, interesting. Weirdly enough, didn't Ryan Kerrigan put up the same amount of bench reps as Orakpo? Definitely two different bodies types because Orakpo looks SHREDDED and Kerrigan just looks big.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1093721]I am surprised there isn't more talk about how we look coming out of the bye week. It's a critical game, always. Good coaches and their team come out looking sharp and extremely well prepared after the bye week. Bad coaches and their team look disorganized after the bye, like nobody practiced.

Looking for Gruden and Co. to have a really strong showing this week, or I suspect he'd be on the hot seat. And if Gruden's butt is burning, shouldn't Allen's too?[/quote]

Bye week or not, if we can't look good against the Bucs then we're in much worse shape than we thought

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1093721]I am surprised there isn't more talk about how we look coming out of the bye week. It's a critical game, always. [/quote]

That's because it doesn't matter. We are 3-6 and looking ahead till the off-season. We are done for in terms of the playoffs this year so that's why there isn't any "talk" so to speak.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1093724]Bye week or not, if we can't look good against the Bucs then we're in much worse shape than we thought[/quote]

Good point. Never been too impressed with Lovie Smith but his Bucs reeeaaally suck.

Now watch McCown shred us for 30+ points lol, wonder if he'll cry happy tears

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1093727]Good point. Never been too impressed with Lovie Smith but his Bucs reeeaaally suck.

Now watch McCown shred us for 30+ points lol, wonder if he'll cry happy tears[/quote]

Well the Bucs did beat the Steelers this season...then again so did the Jets.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

No excuse to lose to Tampa at home, after a bye. None

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1093730]No excuse to lose to Tampa at home, after a bye. None[/quote]

Oh there are plenty of excuses, and we will use every one of them.

Re: Expectations for the rest of the season...
 

.....What were your thoughts prior to the Dallas game?