Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094538]That's why I say start the 3rd rounders, let's see what they can do. Leribus is probably better than Lauvao and Long is smart and plays with a chip in his shoulder, something Chester lacks.[/quote]

But but but what if they don't play well and we lose?

:Flush:

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Brody81;1094537]Are we really talking head coach change again?? Vince Lombardi himself could come out of the grave, and he would go 5-11 with this dysfunctional organization.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, It Literally Doesn't Matter Who The Coach is. Dan Snyder has cursed this team

Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1094509]Notice how you said good QB's and not developing QB's. No one is arguing that Tom Brady cant make his OL better. We are saying Tom Brady would be no where near as good today if he was under constant pressure and had to rely on faking out a DE and running himself in his first couple of years.



Aaron Rodgers... You really should listen to people in the know about how terrible his footwork and technique were early on. He was a Tedford disciple. The hold the football above your ear when dropping back technique. Some people associated with GB at the time said Rodgers would have busted as bad as Ryan Leaf if he had to play as a rookie. Even Rodgers first year as a starter was not impressive, and he was 4 or 5 years into the league at that point.



Rodgers can make a bad OL look good... now... after his development. That says nothing about developing a QB though. If they arent developed properly, they arent making a bad OL look good, except maybe RG3 as a rookie with an offense designed with no thought of actually developing him.



Development matters... I still cant understand how most think its completely unimportant.[/QUOTE]


You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094545]You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit:[B] Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.[/B][/quote]


Brady's 1st year stating he went to the Pro Bowl and lead the Pats to a SuperBowl win.

I mean,I am sure RG3 is right there at that level, too. :silly:

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094545]You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.[/quote]

Its always completely assumed that a QB can be developed, just like you are assuming that given the right parts around him, Griffin would bust. Peyton Manning had a ton of doubters coming out of college with huge amounts of people saying Ryan Leaf would be better, but there were some that assumed he could be developed. It was also completely assumed that Ryan Leaf could be developed.

The fact is, unless its done properly, you will never know. Is it possible that Griffin was never going to be a good QB? Sure its possible. Something being possible doesnt mean much when assuming since the exact opposite could also be possible. If we are going to deal in possibilities and assumptions, then we should resign sexy rexy. After all, he was a starter in the SB, so him making the SB as a starter... is possible.

Btw... The record of the packers was 6-10 in Rodgers' first year. Since most dont think any other position matters and win/loss record completely falls on the QB, Rodgers had a bad first year starting (4th year in the league) by the standards that keep being presented to me.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1094547]Its always completely assumed that a QB can be developed, just like you are assuming that given the right parts around him, Griffin would bust. Peyton Manning had a ton of doubters coming out of college with huge amounts of people saying Ryan Leaf would be better, but there were some that assumed he could be developed. It was also completely assumed that Ryan Leaf could be developed.



The fact is, unless its done properly, you will never know. Is it possible that Griffin was never going to be a good QB? Sure its possible. Something being possible doesnt mean much when assuming since the exact opposite could also be possible. If we are going to deal in possibilities and assumptions, then we should resign sexy rexy. After all, he was a starter in the SB, so him making the SB as a starter... is possible.



Btw... The record of the packers was 6-10 in Rodgers' first year. Since most dont think any other position matters and win/loss record completely falls on the QB, Rodgers had a bad first year starting (4th year in the league) by the standards that keep being presented to me.[/QUOTE]


Come on man....they forgot about Favre almost overnite. Also im not assuming Griff wont succeed with the rite pieces around him. Im just calling it like I see it rite now as it stands. Rite now he isnt playing well. I have no idea if the organization or the man can fix that. My gut says no, but we will see.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

We never should have fired Marty Shottenheimer, he went 8-8 with starting the season terrible, he had a solid resume, only getting 1 season was asinine.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094546]Brady's 1st year stating he went to the Pro Bowl and lead the Pats to a SuperBowl win.

I mean,I am sure RG3 is right there at that level, too. :silly:[/quote]

Given that Brady is one of the greatest of all time, I could say that Brees sucks compared to Brady, and its not a far fetched statement. Saying one QB sucks when he is compared to Brady because he is lacking something is down right stupid.

If any of you actually thought at any time that RG3 was the next Brady, you are clearly lacking when it comes to football. I have defended RG3 plenty and have never once in my life thought he would be the next Tom Brady. I dont even know why that comparison is being made.

For as shitty as you guys call RG3, had we had Seattles defense and RG3 played absolutely no different, you would be calling him the franchise savior. Since 20 points with that defense wins 80-90% of the time. With our defense, 20 points loses more often than not. So no different play and a dominant defense completely changes almost everyones opinion of him. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

Btw, That NE team was light years ahead of ours in terms of talent across the board. Remember Belicheks early defenses. They were down right nasty. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094550]Come on man....they forgot about Favre almost overnite. Also im not assuming Griff wont succeed with the rite pieces around him. Im just calling it like I see it rite now as it stands. Rite now he isnt playing well. I have no idea if the organization or the man can fix that. My gut says no, but we will see.[/quote]

Lol... No...

That first year, Packers fan were booing Rodgers and calling for Favre to be brought back. The Packers fans werent happy about 6-10 at all. They started to give Rodgers a chance about half way through his second starting season. They didnt forget about Favre until the SB.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094545]You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.[/quote]

And you are assuming he can't.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1094553]Lol... No...



That first year, Packers fan were booing Rodgers and calling for Favre to be brought back. The Packers fans werent happy about 6-10 at all. They started to give Rodgers a chance about half way through his second starting season. They didnt forget about Favre until the SB.[/QUOTE]


Summer before his first starting season I remember he was caught in the crossfire of favre leaving. That first year - he LIT IT UP. They might have been booing the team but im not so sure it was directed at Rodgers. Either way my point was (stupid fans or not) he was an immediate success once he took over. Again - over 4,000 yards and 28 td's.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Skinzman;1094552]Given that Brady is one of the greatest of all time, I could say that Brees sucks compared to Brady, and its not a far fetched statement. Saying one QB sucks when he is compared to Brady because he is lacking something is down right stupid.

If any of you actually thought at any time that RG3 was the next Brady, you are clearly lacking when it comes to football. I have defended RG3 plenty and have never once in my life thought he would be the next Tom Brady. I dont even know why that comparison is being made.

For as shitty as you guys call RG3, had we had Seattles defense and RG3 played absolutely no different, you would be calling him the franchise savior. Since 20 points with that defense wins 80-90% of the time. With our defense, 20 points loses more often than not. So no different play and a dominant defense completely changes almost everyones opinion of him. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

Btw, That NE team was light years ahead of ours in terms of talent across the board. Remember Belicheks early defenses. They were down right nasty. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.[/quote]


You are talking about defense. The Skins D could have only given up 10 points and still lost because the offence only scored 7. They got 0 points in the 2nd half, is that on the D?? And that TD was a 5 yard pass, back to the LoS, that Hulu ran for 25 additional yards. The Texan game was even worse, 6 points. That loss on the D, too?

The only thing he can hit is 15 yards and less. He stares down a WR so the safety covers him, then goes right to the checkdown. Is that a Defensive problem? You think that is a coaching problem? You think the coaches have not addressed this?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Bucket;1094554]And you are assuming he can't.[/quote]

I am assuming nothing, I can see what is on the field.

Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Bucket;1094554]And you are assuming he can't.[/QUOTE]


No im not. Not at all. Im simply saying that he might not pan out even with whatever is considered proper development. My point being that what we are seeing might be ....well what we will continue to see. A superb athlete - oft injured - that doesnt appear to be a good passing qb.
Lets not turn this into a RG-3 hater vs apologist bologna argument. To a man every single person onthis board - scratch that - every single Redskins fan in the world would be just tickled pink to see Griff pay off and lead this team for years to come at a high level.
However since none of us have a crystal ball we can only base what we think will happen on what we are seeing happen. To say he only needs to be developed properly is discounting the fact that he has to first have that ability inside him. He might and he might not, but ill be damned if im going to sit here believing he does based on his play so far this year.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094556]You are talking about defense. The Skins D could have only given up 10 points and still lost because the offence only scored 7. They got 0 points in the 2nd half, is that on the D?? And that TD was a 5 yard pass, back to the LoS, that Hulu ran for 25 additional yards. The Texan game was even worse, 6 points. That loss on the D, too?

The only thing he can hit is 15 yards and less. He stares down a WR so the safety covers him, then goes right to the checkdown. Is that a Defensive problem? You think that is a coaching problem? You think the coaches have not addressed this?[/quote]

You are talking about 2 games. How many times have we scored, I dont know, 26 points only to give up two 4th quarter TD's by a rookie QB and lose by 3. Yeah that just happened against Minny. And of course, its all RG3's fault because defense doesnt matter. Of course he did hit some things over 15 yards in that game. The Houston game JJ Watt was in the backfield as much as our RB's were. Quick passes became the plan pretty early on in that game. You keep claiming that you are watching but seem to miss some pretty basic stuff.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Here's an excellent RGIII assessment from a Baylor fan:

Like I have said before. He is a spread quarterback playing in a west coast offense. It does not fit him. He needs to go to a place that runs the true spread. Not the read option, but a run and shoot style spread. That is the bases of our offense here at Baylor. He would understand those concepts and elements better. There is too much of a thought process that goes on with the west coast especially the one hat both Gruden's run. Not only do you have to read the defense, but you have to regurgitate ridiculously long plays that tells everyone what to do; you have to time your drop back with the routes, receivers have to run predetermined routes, and you have about 5 reads. He has to do all this on top of having an offensive line not built to pass protect. He does have issues holding the ball to long. He needs to just let a rip; but honestly he wasn't ready to carry a bad organization. People put to much on him and in fairness he put way to much on himself. I think he was feeling himself just a little, but not as much as it was portrayed; after winning the Heisman and then rookie of the year. He probably thought that he would be able to handle saving a dismal organization. But many great qbs don't have to. As bad as the Colts were people forget the year before they tanked that they made it to the second round of the playoffs. Indy top to bottom was a solid organization when Andrew went there. To make it even more easier on him, the colts brought in his offensive coordinator from Sanford, so he is practically 7 years into the offense that he is directing. He is comfortable because he knows it in and out. That was not the case for Rob. And many would say well the Shanahan's installed the read option for Robert to get him comfortable so that's a wash. No they didn't. Many don't understand that Rob didn't run a read option offense in college. Art Briles offense is not a read option offense. It is a run and shoot hybrid offense with receivers running option routes versus the way the defense is lined up. Quarterback and receivers on the fly determine where to go with the ball and what route to run based on coverage. And there for the pass opens up the run. If you look at stats except for his freshman year Rob didn't run the ball for more than 650 in a season. That was on par with Luck at Stanford. The Shanahan's used Nevada's offensive formation (read option) Rob's rookie year. I know this is long but I am passionate about my bears and seeing them do well in all their endeavors. He needs a change of scenery particularly in a place that has a small media market with a solid organization top to bottom from players, coaches, front office, and owner. He needs a place that runs a spread offense that allows him to make easier pre snap adjustments without heavy progressions and verbiage and will allow him to get in a rythym becaus he is a rythym thrower. And preferably a place where he can sit behind a veteran qb for a couple of years, rest his body, and learn. A place where he doesn't have to be the guy. Denver is a small market city that meet these criterias. New England as well. In fact they have a rookie qb behind Tom Brady that ran our offense for Coach Babers at Eastern Illinois. That's how closely aligned the Patriots offense is with ours. It's not as eccentric and elaborate as ours (there is only one Coach Briles and one Baylor offense) but it is a run and shoot offense so it embodies the same base principals.
Last edited by CoachHBU2008; 11-16-14 at 04:14 PM.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Schneed10;1094353]Gruden's team was completely unprepared yesterday. And as for the matter of Griffin, his poor development falls at the feet of the head coach, like it or not. He was brought in to get Robert going in the right direction. He's going in the wrong direction.

I'm completely unimpressed by Jay Gruden.[/quote]



[quote=Mattyk;1094523]Agreed, kinda odd how little heat he's getting. He hasn't done anything to have our support or faith.[/quote]



Seriously? Both of you? How is it Jay's fault that he was strapped with a shit DC leftover from Shanny's regime? How come he's overridden on QB calls on who to play? Why is Gruden getting the blame for Robert's progress? Maybe Jay is teaching him, but he isn't learning shit?

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/13018/drama-returns-to-redskins-park]Drama returns to Redskins Park - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

[quote]“Robert had some fundamental flaws,” Gruden said of Griffin’s game Sunday in a 27-7 loss to Tampa Bay. “His footwork was below average. He took three-step drops when he should have taken five. He took a one-step drop when he should have taken three, on a couple occasions, and that can’t happen. He stepped up when he didn’t have to step up and stepped into pressure. He read the wrong side of the field a couple times. So from his basic performance just critiquing Robert it was not even close to being good enough to what we expect from the quarterback position.” [/quote]


He's being taught properly. It's the QB not doing what he's supposed to do which is the problem.

I will agree with you Matty that Jay probably shouldn't be this upfront in his press conferences. He should take notes from BB on how to do them.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

If Jay Gruden is your only hope, give up.. This team has played like crap under him.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1094562]If Jay Gruden is your only hope, give up.. This team has played like crap under him.[/QUOTE]


As opposed to last year when they played ....wait a minute - nevermind. Since when does a coach get 10 games to prove himself. Especially when he inherited an absolute disaster and has had to use three different qb's.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1094519]I have always wondered what people are thinking when they say that we are such a terrible team that no coach could succeed with this cast. Only to then turn around and claim the coach to be the problem while acting like our team is loaded with talent. Comparing our talent to Az is laughable, especially that defense. Would a single player on our defense even be able to start for them?

Its like cutting a tomato in half and wondering why you dont get half an apple and half a watermelon.[/QUOTE]

Pssst....they got a whole bunch of scrubs starting for them with Abraham, Dockett and Washington out. They are a well coached team not stacked with over paid under achievers. Coaching plus drafting plus good front office equals wins.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

We can only judge Gruden on what we've seen so far, and it's not pretty. Not much room for error in this league for head coaches, fair or not. Gotta win games to keep your job.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Pretty bold of Jay Gruden to call out and completely rip his "franchise QB". I wonder if that means RG3 is on thin ice, and perhaps headed out of here. There's probably some "potential" in there with RG3, but honestly I want production. If he can't even remember the number of steps to drop back after 3 years, I'm thinking Cousins or Colt are better suited to system. It's a new system & he's rusty -> but Colt came in without practice and lit it up, and we had a top 5 offense with Cousins (minus the INTs).


Just tired of the drama. Shut the f@#k up until you can win a game again.
Lead by example instead of pointing.
Stop whining on facebook and twitter and act like a man.
Slide. Learn how to slide.

It's bad enough to watch a bad team play bad games, it's worse to see them unravel in the locker room every year.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE]We never should have fired Marty Shottenheimer, he went 8-8 with starting the season terrible, he had a solid resume, only getting 1 season was asinine[/QUOTE]

Truth

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Colt McCoy is familiar with the West Coast offense, RGIII is still learning and behind the curb. I want to see what RGIII can do with protection, last year doesn't count, Shanahan rushed him. I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. Let's get him some protection (not a condom) and give him one more chance next year.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1094561]Seriously? Both of you? How is it Jay's fault that he was strapped with a shit DC leftover from Shanny's regime? How come he's overridden on QB calls on who to play? Why is Gruden getting the blame for Robert's progress? Maybe Jay is teaching him, but he isn't learning shit?

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/13018/drama-returns-to-redskins-park]Drama returns to Redskins Park - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]




He's being taught properly. It's the QB not doing what he's supposed to do which is the problem.

I will agree with you Matty that Jay probably shouldn't be this upfront in his press conferences. He should take notes from BB on how to do them.[/quote]

Clearly Jay a) doesn't like RG3, b) doesn't have mich choice in who starts and c) wants to get fired.

Jackson should have had 300 yard 3 td game. In any world but Redskins world you would get benched for playing this basic. RG3 is a dud, no sense in standing by him.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094560]Here's an excellent RGIII assessment from a Baylor fan:

Like I have said before. He is a spread quarterback playing in a west coast offense. It does not fit him. He needs to go to a place that runs the true spread. Not the read option, but a run and shoot style spread. That is the bases of our offense here at Baylor. He would understand those concepts and elements better. There is too much of a thought process that goes on with the west coast especially the one hat both Gruden's run. Not only do you have to read the defense, but you have to regurgitate ridiculously long plays that tells everyone what to do; you have to time your drop back with the routes, receivers have to run predetermined routes, and you have about 5 reads. He has to do all this on top of having an offensive line not built to pass protect. He does have issues holding the ball to long. He needs to just let a rip; but honestly he wasn't ready to carry a bad organization. People put to much on him and in fairness he put way to much on himself. I think he was feeling himself just a little, but not as much as it was portrayed; after winning the Heisman and then rookie of the year. He probably thought that he would be able to handle saving a dismal organization. But many great qbs don't have to. As bad as the Colts were people forget the year before they tanked that they made it to the second round of the playoffs. Indy top to bottom was a solid organization when Andrew went there. To make it even more easier on him, the colts brought in his offensive coordinator from Sanford, so he is practically 7 years into the offense that he is directing. He is comfortable because he knows it in and out. That was not the case for Rob. And many would say well the Shanahan's installed the read option for Robert to get him comfortable so that's a wash. No they didn't. Many don't understand that Rob didn't run a read option offense in college. Art Briles offense is not a read option offense. It is a run and shoot hybrid offense with receivers running option routes versus the way the defense is lined up. Quarterback and receivers on the fly determine where to go with the ball and what route to run based on coverage. And there for the pass opens up the run. If you look at stats except for his freshman year Rob didn't run the ball for more than 650 in a season. That was on par with Luck at Stanford. The Shanahan's used Nevada's offensive formation (read option) Rob's rookie year. I know this is long but I am passionate about my bears and seeing them do well in all their endeavors. He needs a change of scenery particularly in a place that has a small media market with a solid organization top to bottom from players, coaches, front office, and owner. He needs a place that runs a spread offense that allows him to make easier pre snap adjustments without heavy progressions and verbiage and will allow him to get in a rythym becaus he is a rythym thrower. And preferably a place where he can sit behind a veteran qb for a couple of years, rest his body, and learn. A place where he doesn't have to be the guy. Denver is a small market city that meet these criterias. New England as well. In fact they have a rookie qb behind Tom Brady that ran our offense for Coach Babers at Eastern Illinois. That's how closely aligned the Patriots offense is with ours. It's not as eccentric and elaborate as ours (there is only one Coach Briles and one Baylor offense) but it is a run and shoot offense so it embodies the same base principals.
Last edited by CoachHBU2008; 11-16-14 at 04:14 PM.[/quote]

Awesome post, thanks.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1094572]Colt McCoy is familiar with the West Coast offense, RGIII is still learning and behind the curb. I want to see what RGIII can do with protection, last year doesn't count, Shanahan rushed him. I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. Let's get him some protection (not a condom) and give him one more chance next year.[/QUOTE]


There have been plenty of plays where he has had protection and still not made the play. Plenty. I think that if he struggles these last 6 games than we have to seriously consider a change. I dont know if i can handle another year of hoping and praying.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Saw this online today...about sums up the situation...

[b]Rodney Harrison I Think You Have To Get Rid Of RG3[/b]

[url]http://deadspin.com/rodney-harrison-i-think-you-have-to-get-rid-of-rgiii-1659618699[/url]

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Skinzman;1094559][B]You are talking about 2 games.[/B] How many times have we scored, I dont know, 26 points only to give up two 4th quarter TD's by a rookie QB and lose by 3. Yeah that just happened against Minny. And of course, its all RG3's fault because defense doesnt matter. Of course he did hit some things over 15 yards in that game. The Houston game JJ Watt was in the backfield as much as our RB's were. Quick passes became the plan pretty early on in that game. You keep claiming that you are watching but seem to miss some pretty basic stuff.[/quote]

You are talking about 1 game. Lets take RG3's last 16 not counting the Jax game he get hurt 5 mins in. In 16 games 18 TDs, 15 INT, and 7 fumbles, [B]53 sacks taken. [/B] Twenty two turnovers just by himself in 16 games, thats elite. Now before you even start making excuses about the O-line and those sacks, a ton of them are on him. He holds the ball [B]WAY, WAY, WAY, [/B]too long, everyone says so. Now the O-line is leaky for sure, but it is no way, sooo much worse than every other O-line that he should be sacked this many times. [U] In fact this season RG3 has been sacked 13% of his pass attempts, Colt 10%, and Kirk only 3.8%. Last year RG3 sacked on 7.7% of attempts, Kirk 3.1. [/U]

You want to use the D as an excuse? Know who had the 9th most punts in 2013? Rocca. Know why so many? Because RG3 can not do crap on 3rd down, except get sacked. Want to know why he wasn't 1st in number of punts? Because RG3's 22 turnovers, but I guess that is on the D. Crappy Offensive play puts pressure on the D. Not the other way around.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #28302 , it is the coaching staff. Once he gets the right coaches who knows how to coach he will be great. Go check how well the Browns are doing with Kyle Shanahan, without a decent WR, and Hoyer as their QB.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #63840 wellll hes hurt as soon as he gets healthy, we will see this great elite QB. Ya but he is brittle a hell, he missed time in 2 out of 4 college seasons and 3 out of 3 NFL seasons. So keep hoping that he will ever last a whole season.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #34405: his teammates don't play hard enough. He tried to use that one yesterday when he threw his teammates under the bus. Best throw of the day, BTW.

Or you use RG3 excuse #19083 : "The Haters" whatever the Hell that is

At some point you have to stop making excuses and either produce or get lost.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094576]There have been plenty of plays where he has had protection and still not made the play. Plenty. I think that if he struggles these last 6 games than we have to seriously consider a change. I dont know if i can handle another year of hoping and praying.[/quote]

You are right. In fact,Griffin essentially sacks himself. By holding the ball as he does, realistically he often says, "Please sack me."

The fact that, after sacking himself repeatedly, he still called out other players made me lose respect for RGIII, and I am one of his backers. You can't call out others like that because you are too arrogant to admit that you f***ed up.

No wonder his development is so stunted. No matter how hard you work, it is hard to improve if you spend your time admiring your reflection.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094582]You are talking about 1 game. Lets take RG3's last 16 not counting the Jax game he get hurt 5 mins in. In 16 games 18 TDs, 15 INT, and 7 fumbles, 53 sacks taken. Twenty two turnovers just by himself in 16 games, thats elite. Now before you even start making excuses about the O-line and those sacks, a ton of them are on him. He holds the ball [B]WAY, WAY, WAY, [/B]too long, everyone says so. Now the O-line is leaky for sure, but it is no way, sooo much worse than every other O-line that he should be sacked this many times. [U] In fact this season RG3 has been sacked 13% of his pass attempts, Colt 10%, and Kirk only 3.8%. Last year RG3 sacked on 7.7% of attempts, Kirk 3.1. [/U]

You want to use the D as an excuse? Know who had the 9th most punts in 2013? Rocca. Know why so many? Because RG3 can not do crap on 3rd down, except get sacked. Want to know why he wasn't 1st in number of punts? Because RG3's 22 turnovers, but I guess that is on the D. Crappy Offensive play puts pressure on the D. Not the other way around.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #28302 , it is the coaching staff. Once he gets the right coaches who knows how to coach he will be great. Go check how well the Browns are doing with Kyle Shanahan, without a decent WR, and Hoyer as their QB.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #63840 wellll hes hurt as soon as he gets healthy, we will see this great elite QB. Ya but he is brittle a hell, he missed time in 2 out of 4 college seasons and 3 out of 3 NFL seasons. So keep hoping that he will ever last a whole season.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #34405: his teammates don't play hard enough. He tried to use that one yesterday when he threw his teammates under the bus. Best throw of the day, BTW.

Or you use RG3 excuse #19083 : "The Haters" whatever the Hell that is

At some point you have to stop making excuses and either produce or get lost.[/quote]

You have still not understood most of my points. This all started about a conversation about developing QB's. As I told Punch, you want to draft QB after QB and watch them be ruined. I want to fix the developing problem then worry about the QB. I have said before that if it isnt Griffin, so be it.

But your solution is to put in someone who did just as bad if not worse. Its a stupid solution and I will call it out every time. Fix the problem first, then get the QB. Stop inserting QB x, watch him fail, insert QB y, watch him fail, insert QB z, watch him fail... then blame Snyder. Thats not a solution except to several people on this board.

If its not Griffin, so be it. But drafting and ruining is a horrible strategy. I dont know why so many people think it will eventually work after the 5 thousandth time. It wont work the way its being done. As Einstein said, Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again thinking you will get different results.

Btw, Im not one who has blamed the coaching staff. I got chewed out for saying to give Shanny his five years because I was sick of the turnover. But hey, the guy you hated is now having success somewhere else so blame me for that as well. Makes sense. I also dont recall calling anyone a hater. Called plenty of people idiots, but hater, not me.

Btw... I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB. Yes I will talk about the defense, because when you have to score 40 to win, then the QB tends to do stupid shit trying to make up those points. Yes I will talk about the Oline, since they are a major problem in why we can never get a QB going.

Look at Kirk when he first came in. He was tearing it up early, then started taking hits. After that, it was lock and throw immediately, regardless of what team he threw to. Thats what you want? Really? Hey at least his sack numbers per pass play are down even if he locks onto the safety and throws it right at him for an int. It does not take EVERY single rush to get there for it to have an effect. There were plenty of times with a whole lot of QB's that take hits and start doing these rookie things. It really only takes so many times of having your center and guards pushed back into your face before you look to move outside the pocket instead of climb into it. Its a development problem and it needs to be fixed. QB's cant develop that way, they never do.

This team might as well have zero backups except the QB position and sign 15 of them. Then we can switch QB's to your hearts content while nothing still works. But you still have Snyder to blame so who cares if the problem is ever fixed.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

smh please put McCoy in so when he turns into McCoy we get a new coach. RG3 Romo's sucessor?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Gary84Clark;1094588]smh please put McCoy in so when he turns into McCoy we get a new coach. RG3 Romo's sucessor?[/QUOTE]

Does Gary Clark know that you are using his number?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094589]Does Gary Clark know that you are using his number?[/quote]


Serious, I'm tired of the drama let RG3 go. It's not doing him or the team any good. Let's see what you got next. I'm ready to start judging Gruden for Gruden. They had a bye and laid an egg. COACHING red flag!

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Gary84Clark;1094590]Serious, I'm tired of the drama let RG3 go. It's not doing him or the team any good. Let's see what you got next. I'm ready to start judging Gruden for Gruden. They had a bye and laid an egg. COACHING red flag![/QUOTE]


Damn Gary84Clark asking for RG-3 to be shown the door? What is this world coming to?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

I think that like others have posted out - benching RG3 for the rest of the year and then jettisoning him would be a move that would show that we are moving past the BS and are serious about putting only winners on the field. Someone posted a stat line of RG3's record, it is something like 9-30, which is horrible.

Then again - i'm not sure if Gruden has the power/autonomy to make decisions like that. He seems like a good guy but he knows how it works in DC. It wouldn't surprise me if he's already been told that RG3 plays no matter what...

Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=SolidSnake84;1094592]I think that like others have posted out - benching RG3 for the rest of the year and then jettisoning him would be a move that would show that we are moving past the BS and are serious about putting only winners on the field. Someone posted a stat line of RG3's record, it is something like 9-30, which is horrible.



Then again - i'm not sure if Gruden has the power/autonomy to make decisions like that. He seems like a good guy but he knows how it works in DC. It wouldn't surprise me if he's already been told that RG3 plays no matter what...[/QUOTE]


12-18. I think he has played 30 games.
Edit: something closer to this anyway.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094593]12-18. I think he has played 30 games.
Edit: something closer to this anyway.[/quote]

Let him play the season out. He is young he won't find success here. I would hate to have to troll Cousins fans because Colt is more injury prone than RG. He has concussion issues.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094582]

In 16 games 18 TDs, 15 INT, and 7 fumbles, [B]53 sacks taken. [/B] Twenty two turnovers just by himself in 16 games, thats elite.

Now before you even start making excuses about the O-line and those sacks, a ton of them are on him. He holds the ball [B]WAY, WAY, WAY, [/B]too long, everyone says so.

RG3 can not do crap on 3rd down, except get sacked.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #28302 , it is the coaching staff. Once he gets the right coaches who knows how to coach he will be great. Go check how well the Browns are doing with Kyle Shanahan, without a decent WR, and Hoyer as their QB.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #63840 wellll hes hurt as soon as he gets healthy, we will see this great elite QB. Ya but he is brittle a hell, he missed time in 2 out of 4 college seasons and 3 out of 3 NFL seasons. So keep hoping that he will ever last a whole season.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #34405: his teammates don't play hard enough. He tried to use that one yesterday when he threw his teammates under the bus. Best throw of the day, BTW.

Or you use RG3 excuse #19083 : "The Haters" whatever the Hell that is

At some point you have to stop making excuses and either produce or get lost.[/quote]

You made a number of very good points. I have supported Robert but I can't deny my ongoing concerns about everything you posted. Unfortunately, there is even more about his game to be concerned about. Yet, he has talent. It feels like Catch 22 to me.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094560]Here's an excellent RGIII assessment from a Baylor fan:

Like I have said before. He is a spread quarterback playing in a west coast offense. It does not fit him. He needs to go to a place that runs the true spread. Not the read option, but a run and shoot style spread. That is the bases of our offense here at Baylor. He would understand those concepts and elements better. There is too much of a thought process that goes on with the west coast especially the one hat both Gruden's run. Not only do you have to read the defense, but you have to regurgitate ridiculously long plays that tells everyone what to do; you have to time your drop back with the routes, receivers have to run predetermined routes, and you have about 5 reads. He has to do all this on top of having an offensive line not built to pass protect. He does have issues holding the ball to long. He needs to just let a rip; but honestly he wasn't ready to carry a bad organization. People put to much on him and in fairness he put way to much on himself. I think he was feeling himself just a little, but not as much as it was portrayed; after winning the Heisman and then rookie of the year. He probably thought that he would be able to handle saving a dismal organization. But many great qbs don't have to. As bad as the Colts were people forget the year before they tanked that they made it to the second round of the playoffs. Indy top to bottom was a solid organization when Andrew went there. To make it even more easier on him, the colts brought in his offensive coordinator from Sanford, so he is practically 7 years into the offense that he is directing. He is comfortable because he knows it in and out. That was not the case for Rob. And many would say well the Shanahan's installed the read option for Robert to get him comfortable so that's a wash. No they didn't. Many don't understand that Rob didn't run a read option offense in college. Art Briles offense is not a read option offense. It is a run and shoot hybrid offense with receivers running option routes versus the way the defense is lined up. Quarterback and receivers on the fly determine where to go with the ball and what route to run based on coverage. And there for the pass opens up the run. If you look at stats except for his freshman year Rob didn't run the ball for more than 650 in a season. That was on par with Luck at Stanford. The Shanahan's used Nevada's offensive formation (read option) Rob's rookie year. I know this is long but I am passionate about my bears and seeing them do well in all their endeavors. He needs a change of scenery particularly in a place that has a small media market with a solid organization top to bottom from players, coaches, front office, and owner. He needs a place that runs a spread offense that allows him to make easier pre snap adjustments without heavy progressions and verbiage and will allow him to get in a rythym becaus he is a rythym thrower. And preferably a place where he can sit behind a veteran qb for a couple of years, rest his body, and learn. A place where he doesn't have to be the guy. Denver is a small market city that meet these criterias. New England as well. In fact they have a rookie qb behind Tom Brady that ran our offense for Coach Babers at Eastern Illinois. That's how closely aligned the Patriots offense is with ours. It's not as eccentric and elaborate as ours (there is only one Coach Briles and one Baylor offense) but it is a run and shoot offense so it embodies the same base principals.
Last edited by CoachHBU2008; 11-16-14 at 04:14 PM.[/quote]

This post is so so poor, I think its the worse thing Ive ever seen on the board. So RG3 needs to go to a run and shoot team like Denver or New England? jesus christ what an idiot. He sounds like a college football fan.

The problem we are facing is that atheleticism will never hid poor fundemental passing concepts for a QB. Its been proven time and time again.