Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1094736]While there has been a lot of deserved dumping on RG3, the fact is we have the worst line in the NFL. 3 of the 5 do not even belong in the NFL. I can understand a bit why RG3 is jumpy. He usually has only about 2 second before some guy from the other team is ready to kill him. Ok, possibly Moses could develop into a RT. But the guards are the worst in the league. The only function Polumbus used to serve was to distract people from how bad Chester is. At a minimum, we need to NFL caliber guards for next year.[/quote]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but thats a "tired excuse". It will never be the right time to draft some OL when we can just say fuck it and fire our coach, get a new QB, and move on with the same problems we have always had. I found this out just today myself.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1094736]While there has been a lot of deserved dumping on RG3, the fact is we have the worst line in the NFL. 3 of the 5 do not even belong in the NFL. I can understand a bit why RG3 is jumpy. He usually has only about 2 second before some guy from the other team is ready to kill him. Ok, possibly Moses could develop into a RT. But the guards are the worst in the league. [B]The only function Polumbus used to serve was to distract people from how bad Chester is.[/B] At a minimum, we need to NFL caliber guards for next year.[/quote]

That's freaking hilarious. Of course, I am laughing so hard, I'm crying.

Agreed on all counts; Kory and Trent are NFL caliber, with Trent being the only one pretty much a guaranteed starter on most teams. The other matadors have no business protecting anyone.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Skinzman;1094739]I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but thats a "tired excuse". It will never be the right time to draft some OL when we can just say fuck it and fire our coach, get a new QB, and move on with the same problems we have always had. I found this out just today myself.[/quote]

Who says we haven't drafted OL?

Also, is it actually a fact that we have the worst OL and that Griffin has less time than other QBs to throw the ball?

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094794]Who says we haven't drafted OL?

[B]Also, is it actually a fact that we have the worst OL and that Griffin has less time than other QBs to throw the ball?[/B][/quote]

IMO RGIII makes the line look way worse than it is.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094794]Who says we haven't drafted OL?

Also, is it actually a fact that we have the worst OL and that Griffin has less time than other QBs to throw the ball?[/quote]

Who cares if its the worst, its still terrible. And we finally used some picks recently but still nothing higher than a third. I dont really care what round the hogs were drafted in, I frankly dont care what round our current ones are drafted in, we need a better OL. If we cant get good ones in the third, then use firsts and seconds.

And I will say this for the 20th time this week. We are not talking about an established QB here. We are talking about one that is in the development stage. These QB's that everyone wants to compare to are not available. We wont get them, so our only choice is to develop one. Rodgers and Brady can have some success on our team, but they are already developed.

Knowing that is our only choice, and frankly has been for a long time now (Payton wasnt coming here so dont say we missed out on him when we decided to draft RG3. Payton wanted nothing to do with the same division his brother plays in). Since that is our choice, we need to do things that help in a QB's development. Young QB's rarely develop with a bad OL. The fact is one QB can be quite good if he has good development and be terrible if he was developed completely wrong. And no one will know whether they could have succeeded if it was done properly... No one.

We are setting ourselves up to draft Jameis Winston (RG3 v2) or Marcus Mariotta (RG3 v2.1) and just ruin them as well. Then in 3 or 4 more years, I will still have to deal with you saying the OL excuse is tired, have to deal with Punch claiming to be the Psychologist Psychic and claim that he knows if someone has it inside of them, and half of everyone else on this board wondering why a young QB cant succeed behind this line since Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady probably could.

There is no improvement there. And without that, its futile. I would rather tank for 5 straight years than go through 20 more years of this same crap we have been watching. I wish people would stop complaining about the team then say the team should not change course (except fire the coach) from what they have already proven to be a failure for two decades.

Young QB's that are constantly under pressure tend to start forgetting about footwork, staring receivers down, hurrying throws and throwing int's. Once the int's come, they start holding the ball longer. They get ancy feet and dance in the pocket. They start patting the ball like a hot potato because they really dont want it. If they get rushed up the middle with any kind of frequency, they completely abandon trying to climb the pocket and immediately try to head to the sideline. It also does not take that rush to be every play, so yes, there are times when the middle of the line is held up and the QB has the opportunity to climb the pocket but still heads outside the pocket instead.

Look at Dallas, what has changed for them? Do you think DeMarco Murray all of a sudden became some great back? No... Hes the same guy he always has been. But trying to run when their is no hole and trying to run when there is a hole that you could drive a mack truck through is a huge difference. Their offense is putting up long drives and keeping other teams offense on the sideline (as well as making them one dimensional) and masking their defense. The only thing they have changed... The OL.

The saddest thing about all of this... This is all football 101.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

And to think that Jerry Jones wanted to draft Johnny Manziel in the first round. Instead, his people convinced him to draft a guard.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1094796]IMO RGIII makes the line look way worse than it is.[/quote]

That's actually the prevailing opinion by anyone who knows wtf they're talking about, including the current and former head coaches of the Redskins. It's stupid to say no QB could play well behind the Redskins O-line. In actuality, no O-line could play well in front of RG3. 15 sacks in 3 games vs. 13 sacks over 7 games for KC and Colt (and they're not even that good).

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1094796]IMO RGIII makes the line look way worse than it is.[/quote]

I agree and I think that Colt's play against Dallas illustrated that. I consider what you say to be closer to fact than opinion. I'm not saying this is to bash RGIII but there's no sense in denying what our eyes have clearly seen.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

Percentage of pass attempts that end in sacks:


RG3 2014: [B]13.0%[/B] 2013: [B]7.7%[/B]
Kirk 2014: [B]3.8% [/B] 2013: [B]3.1%[/B]

(As per pro-football-reference.com)

Apparently the O-line is worse when Griffin plays.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094868]Percentage of pass attempts that end in sacks:


RG3 2014: [B]13.0%[/B] 2013: [B]7.7%[/B]
Kirk 2014: [B]3.8% [/B] 2013: [B]3.1%[/B]

(As per pro-football-reference.com)

Apparently the O-line is worse when Griffin plays.[/quote]

Has a lot to do with his foot work and drops.

Something he can learn and will take longer then 12Q in a true WCO. Or maybe he wont.. Nobody knows.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

But let's be clear, does anyone actually think our O-line is decent? It isn't. I likewise wouldn't dispute that RGIII hanging on to the ball too long on some plays (not all -- he's also had sacks that happened at around the 2 second mark -- and if you think that's enough time, try taking a fake snap, stepping backwards while counting to 2). It's a rough confluence of crap protection and episodic bad habits.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094794]Who says we haven't drafted OL?

Also, [COLOR="Red"][B]is it actually a fact[/B][/COLOR] that we have the worst OL and that Griffin has less time than other QBs to throw the ball?[/quote]

I see nothing to make me assume otherwise.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[QUOTE=calia;1094886]But let's be clear, does anyone actually think our O-line is decent? It isn't. I likewise wouldn't dispute that RGIII hanging on to the ball too long on some plays (not all -- he's also had sacks that happened at around the 2 second mark -- and if you think that's enough time, try taking a fake snap, stepping backwards while counting to 2). It's a rough confluence of crap protection and episodic bad habits.[/QUOTE]


I think it would rank in the bottom third of the league.

It's not the worst in the league or worst ever as some want to think. Griffin is definitely contributing heavily to half the sacks he's taking.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

Whose O line is appreciably worse? Not challenging you - I literally cannot think of any such team.


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Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[QUOTE=calia;1094928]Whose O line is appreciably worse? Not challenging you - I literally cannot think of any such team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


Quite a few teams have given up more sacks, average less yards per carry/pass etc.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=calia;1094769]That's freaking hilarious. Of course, I am laughing so hard, I'm crying.

Agreed on all counts; Kory and Trent are NFL caliber, with Trent being the only one pretty much a guaranteed starter on most teams. The other matadors have no business protecting anyone.[/quote]

not to be a cooley fan boy (but i am) .. he really really likes lich. says lauvau doesn fit our system and that chester is okay with some good plays and bad plays mixed in there.

he has week in, week out been saying the TEs do not help on chips or blocks. reed is pretty much no-existent in blocking and they dont even ask him to do that = less snaps. says paulsen hasnt been great and should be better.

except for RT, the O line isnt that bad imo. you can win with this O line.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

I know this is not conclusive but here are some stats I found:
8 teams have given up more sacks this year
10 teams with more QB hits
Rushing: 7 teams have given up more negative plays to the right, 24 to the middle and 9 teams more negative plays to the left
Being able to pick up a first down on 3rd or 4th with 2 yards or less: we are in the bottom third when we rush to the right or left(really bad here) but when we rush center where only 7 teams are better.
4 teams have more offensive false starts and we are average for holding penalties

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2014&seasonType=REG]NFL Stats: by Team Category[/url]

[url=http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/false-start?year=2012]False Start - 2012 - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - List/Statistics/Data of NFL Penalties - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014[/url]