Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

If it were 100% up to Gruden I'd bet Cousins would start over RG3 this weekend.

But let's not pretend the INTs with Kirk weren't a problem, they were. 9 picks in 6 games? That's a season pace of 24. Can't have that.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098644]If it were 100% up to Gruden I'd bet Cousins would start over RG3 this weekend.

But let's not pretend the INTs with Kirk weren't a problem, they were. 9 picks in 6 games? That's a season pace of 24. Can't have that.[/quote]


....hell no , then he be a Giant .:laughing-

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098618]Funny how we didn't hear Gruden rip McCoy a new one after that shit show yesterday.[/quote]


But is that from the fact Colt did what he was told to do ,run the Offense as it was to be run ,just got no support from his O line or anyone who was suppose to block .

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Giantone;1098647]But is that from the fact Colt did what he was told to do ,run the Offense as it was to be run ,just got no support from his O line or anyone who was suppose to block .[/quote]

He's made his share of mistakes with holding the ball too long, INTs, fumbles, etc., but he hasn't drawn the wrath from Gruden like with RG3.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098644]If it were 100% up to Gruden I'd bet Cousins would start over RG3 this weekend.

But let's not pretend the INTs with Kirk weren't a problem, they were. 9 picks in 6 games? That's a season pace of 24. Can't have that.[/quote]

I would be interested to see if Cousins could bounce back against the Giants, it was that game which was his dumpster fire moment.

RG3 and Gruden?
 

[url]http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/zip/4795200476.html[/url]

Check this out. Read the comment below the picture. Hilarious[emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098648]He's made his share of mistakes with holding the ball too long, INTs, fumbles, etc., but he hasn't drawn the wrath from Gruden like with RG3.[/quote]

Handing the ball of to a guy who wasn't there because it was a passing play, handing the ball off the wrong direction. Both McCoy and Griffin don't look much different when it comes to mistakes. Neither guy is very good right now this late in the year guys should know the offense.

That is all coaching

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098618]Funny how we didn't hear Gruden rip McCoy a new one after that shit show yesterday.[/quote]

That's because Colt keeps his shut, doesn't draw attention to himself, doesn't run his mouth off at press confrences and goes about his business.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1098656]That's because Colt keeps his shut, doesn't draw attention to himself and goes about his business.[/quote]

And it sure showed with his play on the field, so glad he got off Twitter.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Not sticking up for Colt by any means, he played like shit. But by everything we've heard, there's a sense of entitlement with Griffin. I think Gruden is tired of all the bs and lit him up in his own press conference. It was wrong, but Griffin obviously needed to be put in his place.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1098658]Not sticking up for Colt by any means, he played like shit. But by everything we've heard, there's a sense of entitlement with Griffin. I think Gruden is tired of all the bs and lit him up in his own press conference. It was wrong, but Griffin obviously needed to be put in his place.[/quote]

I agree 100% but that comes with giving away a fortune for him.

Also, people love to knock down guys that get a lot of hype.
Bosworth is the first guy that comes to mind.

Colt is bad. Reminds of me the last year we had Brunell, couldn't throw past 20 yards. Tried to dink and dunk teams to death and it just doesn't work.
Colt is Brunell 2.0.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098644]If it were 100% up to Gruden I'd bet Cousins would start over RG3 this weekend.

But let's not pretend the INTs with Kirk weren't a problem, they were. 9 picks in 6 games? That's a season pace of 24. Can't have that.[/quote]

I don't agree.
If it wasn't 100% up to Gruden, colt would never would've seen the field.
KC moved the ball well and has the best grasp of the offense, he just made 5-10 really bad throws a game.

If Bruce or Dan are in Grudens ear, they don't let Goldenboy take a beating and benching KC does nothing for the team either. They want their guys to succeed.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Right now, I do not see any benefit to the Redskins organization in the HC tearing down RGIII in public or in his putting KC in "the closet" as someone here put it. Gruden certainly crushed their egos but can he and will he build them up again by helping them to become better players? That is the question in my mind.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098644]If it were 100% up to Gruden I'd bet Cousins would start over RG3 this weekend.

But let's not pretend the INTs with Kirk weren't a problem, they were. 9 picks in 6 games? That's a season pace of 24. Can't have that.[/quote]

He was also on pace for 5000 yards and 32 TDs, but the INTs were definitely a problem. Better numbers than Luck's first 16 starts and 10% higher completion rate. But KC wasn't a first rounder, so he doesn't get 30 plus starts to work things out.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=44Deezel;1098663]He was also on pace for 5000 yards and 32 TDs, but the INTs were definitely a problem. Better numbers than Luck's first 16 starts and 10% higher completion rate. But KC wasn't a first rounder, so he doesn't get 30 plus starts to work things out.[/quote]

He was also on pace to never win a game...since he hasn't won a game that he started since his first start.. 'Pace for' is a meaningless stat. Production and results matter and he's not shown that he can be a productive and winning QB.

Let's be honest, no Redskins fan should be trying to defend any of our QBs play this season. It's been abysmal.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Paintrain;1098666]

Let's be honest, no Redskins fan should be trying to defend any of our QBs play this season. It's been abysmal.[/quote]

This!

Every aspect of the team has been abysmal.
I think we should all agree that significant changes need to be made.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1098652]Handing the ball of to a guy who wasn't there because it was a passing play, handing the ball off the wrong direction. Both McCoy and Griffin don't look much different when it comes to mistakes. Neither guy is very good right now this late in the year guys should know the offense.

That is all coaching[/quote]

Neither guy knowing the offense this late in the year is "Coaching"?

I see it like this...every QB on the roster ought to know the whole damn play book by now. Whether you're making 6 figures or 7, act like you care & study a little bit.

I'll change my stance if I hear that Gruden brought the "Al Saunders 700-page playbook" along with him or if he's drawing plays in the dirt.

Otherwise, not knowing a play is on the QB in my book.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Bangee7;1098670]Neither guy knowing the offense this late in the year is "Coaching"?

I see it like this...every QB on the roster ought to know the whole damn play book by now. Whether you're making 6 figures or 7, act like you care & study a little bit.

I'll change my stance if I hear that Gruden brought the "Al Saunders 700-page playbook" along with him or if he's drawing plays in the dirt.

Otherwise, not knowing a play is on the QB in my book.[/quote]
THats the problem, no one looks like they know the playbook.
if it was one or two guys, you could blame them but everyone is making mistakes. If the class average is a D, you have to look at the teachers.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

It's definitely not a matter of not knowing the playbook, it's a matter of not recognizing what defenses are showing you. Which based on those reads, you should immediately know which targets should become your keys.

It's not a playbook problem, it's an inability to diagnose what they're seeing. So it's the chalkboard sessions that are lacking. Either the teaching is terrible or the QBs are too dumb to get it or they're too gunshy in the pocket from being whacked to think straight.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1098709]It's definitely not a matter of not knowing the playbook, it's a matter of not recognizing what defenses are showing you. Which based on those reads, you should immediately know which targets should become your keys.

It's not a playbook problem, it's an inability to diagnose what they're seeing. So it's the chalkboard sessions that are lacking. Either the teaching is terrible or the QBs are too dumb to get it or they're too gunshy in the pocket from being whacked to think straight.[/quote]

I agree with you. They're not being coached properly. I just want to add "Or they're concerned about getting pulled by the guy who can't seem to decide on a starter."

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

I think Robert comes from a military family where discipline and hard work are paramount. But his parents were sergeants, not colonels. I don't think his upbringing came with a lot of strategic or analytical thinking. His upbringing came with drive, determination, physical hard work (you hear stories about his dad pushing him in workouts, running hills, etc.). And you hear his motivational life lessons on Twitter and Facebook, he's very much a mind over matter kind of guy.

And his work ethic with the physical side, combined with his raw athleticism, was all he ever needed to succeed in high school and college. So naturally given his upbringing and his work habits, he focuses on the weight room and agility drills. He's never had to talk Xs and Os with a coach at the chalkboard. At least not at an advanced level.

Shanahan saw this, and designed a read option based offense that just required him to make one or two reads. Gruden needs him go through three or four reads. No surprise that we're seeing failure.

I don't think McVay and Gruden are lacking in the teaching of Xs and Os department. They're lacking in other areas, namely discipline. But sticking just to the QB training side, they're fine. Robert is the problem. He has to change and become more of a student of the game. I don't think he recognizes that though, so I think he'll continue to fail.

Kirk gets the Gruden offense. The teaching reached him. He's just a gun slinger and makes mistakes, then gets down on himself and has no gumption to rally.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

So long story short, I think Gruden makes a good offensive coordinator and McVay a good QB coach. But they're not strong enough in the discipline department or leadership department to be Head Coach and Coordinator respectively.

The team is sloppy and misses blocking assignments. The only unit I'd give a passing grade to on this team is the pass receiving group - Reed, Paul, and the WRs.

We need a stronger head coach with more of a kick ass style to whip these guys into shape. Gruden belongs back in the coordinator ranks.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

And I'm with Fletcher, Haslett is a disaster.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1098712]So long story short, I think Gruden makes a good offensive coordinator and McVay a good QB coach. But they're not strong enough in the discipline department or leadership department to be Head Coach and Coordinator respectively.

The team is sloppy and misses blocking assignments. The only unit I'd give a passing grade to on this team is the pass receiving group - Reed, Paul, and the WRs.

We need a stronger head coach with more of a kick ass style to whip these guys into shape. Gruden belongs back in the coordinator ranks.[/quote]

Cowher.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1098711]I think Robert comes from a military family where discipline and hard work are paramount. But his parents were sergeants, not colonels. I don't think his upbringing came with a lot of strategic or analytical thinking. His upbringing came with drive, determination, physical hard work (you hear stories about his dad pushing him in workouts, running hills, etc.). And you hear his motivational life lessons on Twitter and Facebook, he's very much a mind over matter kind of guy.

And his work ethic with the physical side, combined with his raw athleticism, was all he ever needed to succeed in high school and college. So naturally given his upbringing and his work habits, he focuses on the weight room and agility drills. He's never had to talk Xs and Os with a coach at the chalkboard. At least not at an advanced level.

Shanahan saw this, and designed a read option based offense that just required him to make one or two reads. Gruden needs him go through three or four reads. No surprise that we're seeing failure.

I don't think McVay and Gruden are lacking in the teaching of Xs and Os department. They're lacking in other areas, namely discipline. But sticking just to the QB training side, they're fine. Robert is the problem. He has to change and become more of a student of the game. I don't think he recognizes that though, so I think he'll continue to fail.

Kirk gets the Gruden offense. The teaching reached him. He's just a gun slinger and makes mistakes, then gets down on himself and has no gumption to rally.[/quote]

I dont think RG's parent's jobs have anything to do with whether or not he's a hard worker.

Its funny how now everyone thinks the team needs more discipline, because another part of why JG was hired is because he's more of a players coach than Shanny the disciplinarian.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4bQl5VIEAAzD3D.png[/IMG]

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1098712]So long story short, I think Gruden makes a good offensive coordinator and McVay a good QB coach. But they're not strong enough in the discipline department or leadership department to be Head Coach and Coordinator respectively.

The team is sloppy and misses blocking assignments. The only unit I'd give a passing grade to on this team is the pass receiving group - Reed, Paul, and the WRs.

We need a stronger head coach with more of a kick ass style to whip these guys into shape. Gruden belongs back in the coordinator ranks.[/quote]

Yup, to infinity.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

RGIII is not the only one having issues:

[url=http://wallstcheatsheet.com/sports/what-do-colin-kaepernick-and-robert-griffin-iii-have-in-common.html/]What Do Colin Kaepernick and Robert Griffin III Have in Common?[/url]

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1098733]RGIII is not the only one having issues:

[URL="http://wallstcheatsheet.com/sports/what-do-colin-kaepernick-and-robert-griffin-iii-have-in-common.html/"]What Do Colin Kaepernick and Robert Griffin III Have in Common?[/URL][/quote]

Out of the three duo-threat quarterbacks that have had success in the past three years (RGIII, Kaepernick, and Wilson), only Wilson has had the most success and continues to play pretty well. I wonder how much of that has to do with the OL?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsguy;1098734]Out of the three duo-threat quarterbacks that have had success in the past three years (RGIII, Kaepernick, and Wilson), only Wilson has had the most success and continues to play pretty well. I wonder how much of that has to do with the OL?[/quote]

I think it has more to do with the defense then anything else.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098618]Funny how we didn't hear Gruden rip McCoy a new one after that shit show yesterday.[/quote]



To me, it's pretty clear why he ripped RGIII's ass up in public.

1) Ego

[quote]"We just can't let them get to us," Gruden said. "We have a young team, [B]we have some fragile egos here[/B]. These guys are young guys trying their best, and they read that nobody likes them and they're 'alienated.' "

"I said all along that a quarterback's No. 1 trait that he has to have, you've got to be thick-skinned," Gruden said. "You have to be tough-minded, tough-willed and accept the good and the bad equally. We just can't let that get to us. We've got to stick together and our guys have done that so far."
[/quote]


2) McCoy/Cousins isn't uncoachable, which apparently Robert currently is due to his massive ego. Didn't want to listen to Kyle, LeFleur, Gruden or McVay.

3) Robert threw his teammates under the bus when he had an incredibly bad game.


I agree somewhat with Jsteelze in the fact the organization played a huge part in Robert's massive ego. They pumped him up as the savior and tried to squeeze every little penny they could via his image. They knew he was a project and should have been low key with this guy and allowed him to develop into his own and THEN prop him up as the star QB.

I think the only way that Gruden could get through to Robert(and Dan) is via the media, and part of that was a power play on Gruden's part as well. He knows good and damn well that Robert isn't ready to be a starting QB in a pro-style offense. Kyle knew it and so did Mike.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Yeah nothing fixes an ego more than tearing him down in public. Still think it was a dumb move by Gruden.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsguy;1098734]Out of the three duo-threat quarterbacks that have had success in the past three years (RGIII, Kaepernick, and Wilson), only Wilson has had the most success and continues to play pretty well. I wonder how much of that has to do with the OL?[/quote]

Wilson played in a pro style offense the other 2 didn't. They played the gimmicky offense.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098747]Yeah nothing fixes an ego more than tearing him down in public. Still think it was a dumb move by Gruden.[/quote]

I think he was more pissed off on Robert's post game comments than anything.

He blasted Andy Dalton as well, so I'm not shocked by his public comments.

[url=http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/11/20/the-time-jay-gruden-called-out-andy-dalton-just-like-robert-griffin-iii/]The Time Jay Gruden Called Out Andy Dalton, Just Like Robert Griffin III « CBS DC[/url]


I mostly agree with you on that though. I think Jay needs to hold back at times.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1098749]Wilson played in a pro style offense the other 2 didn't. They played the gimmicky offense.[/quote]

yup, Wilson is a pocket passer, Bevell has just developed the offense which included alot of designed runs. And im talking bootlegs over R/O looks. Bevell would/should been the choice to develop RG3 over Gruden, oh well.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

To all the "fire Gruden after 1 year" people: who are you going to replace him with? No one qualified wants to get involved with this mess. Even less so after another 1 and done head coach. You really want to be looking for the 9th HC in 15 years?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=irish;1098720][B]I dont think RG's parent's jobs have anything to do with whether or not he's a hard worker.[/B]

[/quote]

First off, you're missing my point. I'm not saying he's not a hard worker. I'm saying he pours the hard work in the wrong ways. He works hard in the weight room and on the physical, but he hasn't worked hard as a student of the game. Steve Young's comments on that matter should not be dismissed, the guy knows Mike Shanahan quite closely.

And secondly, his parents' jobs are an indicator of who they are and what they value. Which in turn shapes the way you're brought up. Have you not read story after story about how RG3 and his father would be out pulling tires up hills, or doing wind sprints during family gatherings?

You know what stories you don't read about? RG3 holding endless chalkboard sessions with his coaches, or picking the brains of accomplished QBs.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1098610]People say Snyder is not a football person, but he has been an owner of the Redskins since 1999. I'm sure he has learned how to look at film and understand what he looking at. 15 years is a career in other businesses.[/quote]

On the business side of football, yeah he's probably got things locked down pretty good. On the actual talent evaluation side, nope. Otherwise he never would have approved the Griffin trade.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Hijinx;1098760]To all the "fire Gruden after 1 year" people: who are you going to replace him with? No one qualified wants to get involved with this mess. Even less so after another 1 and done head coach. You really want to be looking for the 9th HC in 15 years?[/quote]

How did Cleveland land Pettine? How did Lions land Caldwell? The list goes on and on. Franchises in disarray hire the right coach who puts it on the right track.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Hijinx;1098760]To all the "fire Gruden after 1 year" people: who are you going to replace him with? No one qualified wants to get involved with this mess. Even less so after another 1 and done head coach. You really want to be looking for the 9th HC in 15 years?[/quote]

More pertinently, would you pay him $20M to go pound sand? I wouldn't if I were Dan.

We're stuck with him because of finances. But he sucks. I don't see much hope he'll get better because of the lack of discipline and wavering leadership.

As Redskins fans we all approach this thing with the thought that next offseason we'll fix this mess. I don't think we will. It sucks, but we're financially stuck with Gruden, and Snyder won't want to give up on RG3. Not sure I would either.

If I'm Dan I tell Gruden that he either keeps RG3 or he resigns without pay. And that's about the best you can make of this very bad situation.