Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1102769]I LOL but I hate gimmick offenses. Baylor/Georgia Tech/Oregon all drive me insane. The results speak for themselves, but when you look at NFL players that are truly successful (Calvin Johnson) and not journeymen, those schools mostly are awful at developing offensive NFL talent.[/quote]

To be fair, when Calvin was at GT they didnt run the triple option

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1102779]Ahhhhh the two words that have fans regret not taking players 2 to 3 years down the line[/quote]

Yeah, Vince Young Part II.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1102763]Winston is cam without the legs. I'm telling u he's not going to be a great QB in the nfl. Just an average one imo[/quote]

He is more athletic than you think but his game isnt to beat you with running, he reminds me of Big Ben, strong, hard to bring down, big arm, can scramble if need be but uses that ability to extend the play instead of running.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1102781]Yeah, Vince Young Part II.[/quote]

Not really a fair comparison in playing styles but to each its own.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

I see him as a better version of byron Leftwich or as u said a big Ben type player. I still wouldn't take him 5 overall.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/01/ffbd5c64f910f799887b34102e9195ed.jpg[/IMG]

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Chico23231;1102774][url=http://deadspin.com/jimbo-fisher-threatens-to-bench-jameis-winston-1677020583]Jimbo Fisher Threatens To Bench Jameis Winston[/url]

Major problem is this, Winston doesn't seem mature enough to be a nfl qb. I'd seriously worry about him if he was here during a losing streak aka our entire season. Could you imagine the dc media destroying him weekly?[/quote]

You are right. In my vision he sits and develops for a few years until he is ready to handle that stuff. But I am not pushing for him. IMO if I draft only one QB, that guy is not Winston.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1102784]I see him as a better version of byron Leftwich or as u said a big Ben type player. I still wouldn't take him 5 overall.[/quote]

I agree, Winston is a high risk pick - could end up in the HOF or jail. He is not going to have an offensive line in the NFL, like he did in college.

[B]FYI he is going to play baseball this spring[/B] :saywhat:

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1102792]I agree, Winston is a high risk pick - could end up in the HOF or jail. He is not going to have an offensive line in the NFL, like he did in college.

[B]FYI he is going to play baseball this spring[/B] :saywhat:[/quote]

Jail seems a bit of a stretch

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1102792]I agree, Winston is a high risk pick - could end up in the HOF or jail. He is not going to have an offensive line in the NFL, like he did in college.

[B]FYI he is going to play baseball this spring[/B] :saywhat:[/quote]

Perhaps he thinks he has the ability to play ball? I would choose a MLB career. Much better union, you can be a meathead pitcher or outfielder, especially a switch hitter in MLB you cannot be a meathead QB in the NFL and succeed.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1102802]Jail seems a bit of a stretch[/quote]

really ? the rape investigation was questionable at best

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

I know this may sound dismissive, but I would support anything that involves change. I like the idea of moving down to lock up more picks because that may prove to be more cost effective in the future when it comes time to lock up proven free agents!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1102818]really ? the rape investigation was questionable at best[/quote]

Or maybe just maybe, the girl was lying. Is that not possible? I wasn't there but let's not go "No more" like it is a proven fact that he raped that girl

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[url=http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/no-team-can-beat-the-draft/]No Team Can Beat the Draft | FiveThirtyEight[/url]

I still say acquiring more picks is always the best plan.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1102828]Or maybe just maybe, the girl was lying. Is that not possible? I wasn't there but let's not go "No more" like it is a proven fact that he raped that girl[/quote]

who said it is fact ?

maybe he forgot to pay for the crabs too

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/30/us/florida-winston-shoplifting-allegation/index.html]FSU's Jameis Winston accused of shoplifting crab legs - CNN.com[/url]

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

My top 32 big board for Redskins draft. I hope we stay at #5 because I really want 1 of those top 5 players. But I wouldn't mind trading down if we can actually hit on our picks.

1. Leonard Williams, 2. Randy Gregory, 3. Ereck Flowers, 4. Ronnie Stanley, 5. Brandon Scherff, 6. Andrus Peat, 7. Amari Cooper, 8. Vick Beasley, 9. La'el Collins, 10. Landon Collins, 11. Dante Fowler, 12. Eli Harold, 13. Alvin Dupree, 14. P.J. Williams, 15. Shane Ray, 16. Trae Waynes, 17. Alex Carter, 18. Mario Edwards, 19. Danny Shelton, 20. Cameron Erving, 21. Cedric Ogbuhei, 22. Benardrick McKinney, 23. Gerod Holliman, 24. Eddie Goldman, 25. Ronald Darby, 26. DaVonte Parker, 27. Denzel Perryman, 28. Kevin Johnson, 29. Jose Matias, 30. Jaelen Strong, 31. Kevin White, 32. Marcus Peters

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1102833]who said it is fact ?

maybe he forgot to pay for the crabs too

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/30/us/florida-winston-shoplifting-allegation/index.html]FSU's Jameis Winston accused of shoplifting crab legs - CNN.com[/url][/quote]

Or someone told him to come down and they would hook him up with some free crab legs and he went and did it, now has he made some questionable choices? Yes but lets not act like there aren't players in the NFL who have been directly responsible for the death of another person and are still able to play. Don't crucify a player just because you don't want to draft him.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1102861]My top 32 big board for Redskins draft. I hope we stay at #5 because I really want 1 of those top 5 players. But I wouldn't mind trading down if we can actually hit on our picks.

1. Leonard Williams, 2. Randy Gregory, 3. Ereck Flowers, 4. Ronnie Stanley, 5. Brandon Scherff, 6. Andrus Peat, 7. Amari Cooper, 8. Vick Beasley, 9. La'el Collins, 10. Landon Collins, 11. Dante Fowler, 12. Eli Harold, 13. Alvin Dupree, 14. P.J. Williams, 15. Shane Ray, 16. Trae Waynes, 17. Alex Carter, 18. Mario Edwards, 19. Danny Shelton, 20. Cameron Erving, 21. Cedric Ogbuhei, 22. Benardrick McKinney, 23. Gerod Holliman, 24. Eddie Goldman, 25. Ronald Darby, 26. DaVonte Parker, 27. Denzel Perryman, 28. Kevin Johnson, 29. Jose Matias, 30. Jaelen Strong, 31. Kevin White, 32. Marcus Peters[/quote]

The question is "which of those players is elite?". I say that because i would only use a Top 5 pick on an elite player. If there isn't an elite player on the board when we draft, I hope that we trade down to the middle of the first round.

From what little I've seen (and i know even less), Williams and Gregory seem like they could be elite players. I have no opinion on the others. I would think that at least one of the 3 through 6 OL's you listed would be available in the middle of the round.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

I will say this, if we don't get Leonard Williams in the first, Danny Shelton NT from Washington would be a great 2nd rd pick early. Dontari Poe like athletic ability. 6'2" 340lbs

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1102934]I will say this, if we don't get Leonard Williams in the first, Danny Shelton NT from Washington would be a great 2nd rd pick early. Dontari Poe like athletic ability. 6'2" 340lbs[/quote]

Good choice.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Lotus;1102939]Good choice.[/quote]

I would like to come out of this draft with a DE, OLB, NT, G, T, CB, S.

Or if not 1 of each, then more than 1 G, T, CB, or S.

Those 7 positions are where I think we need the most focus.

(this is assuming no trades, if we traded back we would get additional picks to maybe get another TE or position I didn't mention).

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1102977]I would like to come out of this draft with a DE, OLB, NT, G, T, CB, S.

Or if not 1 of each, then more than 1 G, T, CB, or S.

Those 7 positions are where I think we need the most focus.

(this is assuming no trades, if we traded back we would get additional picks to maybe get another TE or position I didn't mention).[/quote]

hopefully they will sign a few good free agents before the draft..... a good TE should be a high priority - Paul, and Paulsen should be gone, and Jordan Reed is injury prone

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=WestCoastSkinsFan;1102316]I'm a little torn here.

I've always enjoyed the idea of trading down. More picks = better, right? But we have so many areas of need that the idea of missing out on the top prospect at a position of need also makes me squeamish.

For example, what if Leonard Williams is sitting right there? At what point is a trade worth missing out on a potentially game-changing player at a position of need? It's got to be something nuts that we get in return.[/quote]

Agree. The lack of talent on the Skins is grossly over-stated. Better QB play alone would have amounted to 4-5 more wins. People act like every team in the league except us has a pro-bowler at every position.

Bad QBs get sacked behind any line, but sure, go ahead and upgrade the Right Tackle with the best player available at 5. Use the rest of the draft and FA on Defense.

Dallas has a less talented Defense, but their Offense worked.

More lower picks will likely lead to more mediocre players. Maybe they can land a pro-bowler at 5. Don't trust their ability to find talent in any round but the first.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=44Deezel;1102986]Agree. The lack of talent on the Skins is grossly over-stated.

...

More lower picks will likely lead to more mediocre players. Maybe they can land a pro-bowler at 5. Don't trust their ability to find talent in any round but the first.[/quote]I disagree with your first statement. Only a small handful of Redskins would be starters on most other teams, perhaps Trent, Reed, DJax, Garcon, and Alf on offense, and only Kerrigan, Robinson, Hatcher, and maybe Breeland on defense.

I totally agree with your last statement, and I don't trust this FO to do much with additional picks gained by trading down. Take the sure thing at #5.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

Just wanted to make a quick declaration. I will only approve of one player for the Redskins to draft this July or August (or whenever they decide to move the draft back too) regardless of trade ups or downs.

Andrus the Giant Peat - OT Stanford
[IMG]http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/files/2014/11/Andrus_Peat1.jpg[/IMG]
Know his face well for there will be a wrath no smaller then 24KB in post by me clogging the internet if this man is not made a Redskin in December 2015 when the 2015 NFL Draft is held.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;1103025]Just wanted to make a quick declaration. I will only approve of one player for the Redskins to draft this July or August (or whenever they decide to move the draft back too) regardless of trade ups or downs.

Andrus the Giant Peat - OT Stanford
[IMG]http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/files/2014/11/Andrus_Peat1.jpg[/IMG]
Know his face well for there will be a wrath no smaller then 24KB in post by me clogging the internet if this man is not made a Redskin in December 2015 when the 2015 NFL Draft is held.[/quote]

I'm down with it and in addition Alex Carter CB Stanford (2nd round if available) whose daddy was former Redskins #1 pick Tom Carter.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000452303/article/stanford-cb-alex-carter-decides-to-enter-2015-nfl-draft]Stanford CB Alex Carter decides to enter 2015 NFL Draft - NFL.com[/url]

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

I hope we take peat but he may go 3 or 4. He's that good.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

The Tackle from TAMU is a beast also so we should get one of them

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

i'd be good with peat. very few OL can really come in and help right away once you get into the 3rd round, so if we want a better OL in 2015, it's high picks, FAs or hope moses gets a lot better in one offseason (he has improved a decent amount since he was drafted).

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=That Guy;1103049]i'd be good with peat. very few OL can really come in and help right away once you get into the 3rd round, so if we want a better OL in 2015, it's high picks, FAs or hope moses gets a lot better in one offseason (he has improved a decent amount since he was drafted).[/quote]Moses probably cannot be counted on getting much better since he will probably miss all OTAs due to his Lisfranc injury. I believe that he had surgery, but that's at least a 6 month, and closer to 9 month recovery. I'm fine with any of the top O linemen, or Williams, the monster DT from USC.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

Shane Ray has declared for the draft. He will be the mext JJ Watt. We should pull for him at 5 if we take Wade P. As our next DC

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1103023]I disagree with your first statement. Only a small handful of Redskins would be starters on most other teams, perhaps Trent, Reed, DJax, Garcon, and Alf on offense, and only Kerrigan, Robinson, Hatcher, and maybe Breeland on defense.

I totally agree with your last statement, and I don't trust this FO to do much with additional picks gained by trading down. Take the sure thing at #5.[/quote]

I agree with the first statement too. Before McClough became GM I would've agreed with the second sentence, as well. Now I think its the best course of action.

It is SM's specialty and he said it best, one player isn't going to turn a team around no matter how good he is. I'm paraphrasing but with all the holes on the team they neex an influx of new players.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Bucket;1103306]Shane Ray has declared for the draft. He will be the mext JJ Watt. We should pull for him at 5 if we take Wade P. As our next DC[/quote]

In this draft I see four guys who can really get after the passer: Shane Ray, Randy Gregory, Leonard Williams, and Vice Beasly. Personally, I prefer Shane Ray. He's going to be an elite pass rusher. But if we can trade down and get one of these guys I'll be more than satisfied.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=redskinsfan1980;1104113]In this draft I see four guys who can really get after the passer: Shane Ray, Randy Gregory, Leonard Williams, and Vice Beasly. Personally, I prefer Shane Ray. He's going to be an elite pass rusher. But if we can trade down and get one of these guys I'll be more than satisfied.[/quote]

Leonard Williams is probably the best player in the draft. He reminds me of Warren Sapp.

Randy Gregory has the look of a very special player. He reminds me of JPP. I still wonder if it would be wise to draft him at #5 because I'm not sure he is the "can't miss" player than I believe Williams to be.

I fear that Shane Ray and Vic Beasley may turn out to be just "guys". I wouldn't draft either one of them at #5.

But what do I know? For the first time in a long while, I trust our GM to do the right thing in the draft. After all, he has the endorsement of the great Bobby Beathard.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1104117]Leonard Williams is probably the best player in the draft. He reminds me of Warren Sapp.

Randy Gregory has the look of a very special player. He reminds me of JPP. I still wonder if it would be wise to draft him at #5 because I'm not sure he is the "can't miss" player than I believe Williams to be.

I fear that Shane Ray and Vic Beasley may turn out to be just "guys". I wouldn't draft either one of them at #5.

But what do I know? For the first time in a long while, I trust our GM to do the right thing in the draft. After all, he has the endorsement of the great Bobby Beathard.[/quote] I agree that Leonard Williams is the best defensive player in the draft. The problem is there are no chance he's going to be there at five. It's a good chance that Randy Gregory or Shane Ray will be there at five. I would be satisfied with either one of these guys, but I prefer Shane Ray. Randy Gregory has exceptional size and pretty good athleticism. If bulks up he can develop into a special player. Shane Ray doesn't have exceptional size, but he's clearly a better pass rusher. I think he's the best pass rusher in this draft. I see this guy making a huge impact right away for whoever picks him up. Vic Beasley is also an excellent pass rusher. In fact I think he's a better pass rusher than Randy Gregory. If we can trade down and pick up that guy I would be satisfied. My question is outside of Randy Gregory's height what makes him better than Shane Ray and Vic Beasley? I personally don't see anything he does better.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

Ray & Beasley are tweeners, think Gregory is really good. Not sure if Gregory makes it to 5, Williams for suse doesn't.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Evilgrin;1104399]Ray & Beasley are tweeners, think Gregory is really good. Not sure if Gregory makes it to 5, Williams for suse doesn't.[/quote] I would just like someone to explain what makes Gregory better than Ray and Beasley? Granted he has size, but about his pass rushing ability? Can anyone here really tell me that he's a better pass rusher than Ray and Beasley? If you're saying that then you must haven't been watching college football.

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=redskinsfan1980;1104404]I would just like someone to explain what makes Gregory better than Ray and Beasley? Granted he has size, but about his pass rushing ability? Can anyone here really tell me that he's a better pass rusher than Ray and Beasley? If you're saying that then you must haven't been watching college football.[/quote]

Alright then..

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=Evilgrin;1104406]Alright then..[/quote] Is that your answer? "Alright then." I want to hear your reasoning for putting Randy Gregory over Shane Ray and Vic Beasley?

Re: How the draft looks if we trade down
 

[quote=redskinsfan1980;1104404]I would just like someone to explain what makes Gregory better than Ray and Beasley? Granted he has size, but about his pass rushing ability? Can anyone here really tell me that he's a better pass rusher than Ray and Beasley? If you're saying that then you must haven't been watching college football.[/quote]

Ray has an intense burst in his pass rush. Very impressive.

But I would say that Gregory is better because:
1) better length - this is more important in the pros than in college
2) better size once they have both filled out
3) probably better against the run although both players can be dinged on this.

Gregory is a better all-around player, taking into account more than the pass rush. This goes double for Beasley, who can pass rush like heck but doesn't do much else.

My two cents.