Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

I think some of you folks have gotten carried away about Cooper. NFL teams don't draft WR's very often in the Top 5. In the last 8 drafts (which is as far as I cared to go back), only four WR's were drafted in the Top 5. They were Calvin Johnson (2007), AJ Green (2011), Justin Blackmon (2012), and Sammy Watkins (2014). IMO, Cooper does not possess the exceptional abilities of any of those players and is therefore not worthy of a Top 5 pick based on established NFL draft practices.

Here's the positions that NFL teams tend to draft for in the Top 5: QB, DT, LOT, and Edge Rusher. In fact, in 2013 all of the Top 5 picks were either LOT (3) or Edge Rushers (2). I say we should look to one of the four above positions for the Redskins' pick at #5. It's highly unlikely that we'll have the opportunity to draft a QB there, so that leaves Williams, Fowler, Beasley, Scherff, or my long shot, surprising enough to make Mel Kiper's pompadour fall flat, pick Ereck Flowers.

I realize that Scherff or Flowers would probably play RT now for the Redskins, but they could move to LT later in their careers when Trent hangs up his cleats.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111084]Say Fowler goes to Jax, as some project, and, similarly, Oakland goes with White over Cooper. Who do you pick at 5? Williams, Cooper or Beasley.[/quote]I pick Williams. No questions asked..even if it was Fowler and not Beasley I would still pick Williams.

I think its much easier to find a good edge rusher then it is to find an impactful 34 DE and our DL needs them...Hatcher is merely a rental. And more importantly for me Leonard is clearly the BPA in my eyes.

[quote]....lack of "sure thing"edness, and Cooper's guaranteed (as guaranteed as a draft pick can be) high floor. (Every talking head and analyst says all this guy's comparable's are perennial pro bowler/HOFer's - like Williams, he appears to be about as close to a sure thing as you can get in the draft).[/quote]I don't buy that whole sure thing or guarantee baloney some draft guys say. I think prediction is a myth because people are people there is no predicting what anyone will do. HOWEVER I believe in assessment and evaluation and based on those I believe its possible to accurately rank the draft eligible players based on what we can know. Prediction? Imho is myth. Any prospect can bust or pro-bowler from the 1st pick to an UDFA and the difference in talent that separates is never as great as we think. The difference in actual talent between a 1st round QB and UDFA isn't nearly as wide a margin as the distance in their draft selection.

I say all that only to say any prospect can bust and there are no guarantees.

[quote]....Confronted by the Cooper/Fowler/Beasley conundrum[/quote]For my money I'll take Cooper.

I lean more towards being a BPA guy then a 'need' guy but even when it comes to need I wouldn't put OLB/edge rusher as a premium 1st round need on this team. I'm of the mindset that you a 34 defense "needs" 1 premium OLB pass rusher and having a 2nd while nice isn't something to chase after at the expense of other positions.

Also I think Coopers impact on the passing game would be greater then any other receiver selected in this draft and I'm not sure about the difference between Fowler/Beasley and say an Eli Harold or Nate Orchard or Frank Clark or Davis Tull or Deion Barnes or Art Norman. Heck the top rookie edge rusher last year weren't first rounders they were 5th rounders.

So given the choice between Cooper/Fowler/Beasely I take Cooper easy.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

I hate the later draft.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1111112]
I lean more towards being a BPA guy then a 'need' guy but even when it comes to need I wouldn't put OLB/edge rusher as a premium 1st round need on this team. I'm of the mindset that you a 34 defense "needs" 1 premium OLB pass rusher and having a 2nd while nice isn't something to chase after at the expense of other positions.[/quote]

I have two problems with your position on this:

1. While he is a very good football player, Kerrigan isn't what I consider to be a premium OLB pass rusher.

2. Since when is one top-notch edge rusher enough? It seems to me that just about every NFL team is looking to have a pair of them. Some teams can't seem to get enough of them.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111078]First off, Cooper is 6' 1"/211 lbs. Plenty of size.

As to your main point, however, I have said it before, passing on a guy you believe to be the BPA b/c he doesn't fit an [I]immediate[/I] need is the definition of short term thinking and what has gotten this franchise into so much trouble in the past. If Scot McC thinks Cooper is the clear cut BPA at 5, he should take him. If - and only if - it's a toss-up to Scot McC as to who is the BPA between Cooper and Fowler/Beasley, sure, then need plays a part.

Yes. We have an [I]immediate[/I] need for pass-rushers. Betting on a rookie - even the 5 pick - to resolve that need is pretty damn risky. Particularly when all of the prospective pass rushers are flawed in some way and there is no clear "I am the guy" at the position and, instead, three or four "I may be The Guy but I may be a bust" players at the position.

However, we also have a [I]long term[/I] need for the best football players we can get at every position. Betting on finding one of those by picking the BPA - regardless of position - at the 5 pick is as close to a gimme as you can get in the draft process.

Build for the long term, become a solid team, [I]then[/I] take some risks.[/quote] I don't know about you but 6'1 doesn't impress me due to the fact that there are a lot of corners in this league that's 6'0+. If you're talking about a guy in 6'5 or 6'6 range then you're talking a match up nightmare.

This team has been needing a consistent pass rush for years. It's an immediate, short, and long term need. If you ever want to ever have a good team? We need a good defense. There are some good pass rushers in this draft. I'm more than willing to risk getting one of them before a draft a player we definitely don't need.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1111079]Ahhh the ole need vs BPA question.

I think there is a case that not only is Cooper possible BPA he also fills a critical need both short term and long term.

Coop is a complete WR unlike DeSean who is one of the best deep threat but doesn't run a complete route tree or Garcon who is a great after the catch and a great blocker but doesn't consistently 'win' in man to man or achieve clear separation with his routes.

...Oh and in the immediate long term as early as next year Garcon and maybe even DeSean could be gone.[/quote]SMH...We have to have the dumbest fans in the league. What difference does another wr make when your offensive line getting manhandled? Poor pass protection and poor run blocking will always have a negative outcome. What differences would another wr make if your defense can't get off the field? Giving average qbs forever to find a wr will always end disastrous. Outside of the qb position these are one of the main reasons why we're losing. How does Cooper address any of these major issues? I would really like to know.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=redskinsfan1980;1111119]SMH...We have to have the dumbest fans in the league. What difference does another wr make when your offensive line getting manhandled? Poor pass protection and poor run blocking will always have a negative outcome. What differences would another wr make if your defense can't get off the field? Giving average qbs forever to find a wr will always end disastrous. Outside of the qb position these are one of the main reasons why we're losing. How does Cooper address any of these major issues? I would really like to know.[/quote]

We have the dumbest fans in the league because we agree with the philosophy the smartest GMs in the league use?

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1111120]We have the dumbest fans in the league because we agree with the philosophy the smartest GMs in the league use?[/quote]
I don't think the smartest GM in the league would draft a wr 5th overall with all of the holes on this team. I don't think any fan with a half a brain cell would want him to do it.

Answer my question. How does Cooper address any of these needs?

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=redskinsfan1980;1111122]I don't think the smartest GM in the league would draft a wr 5th overall with all of the holes on this team. I don't think any fan with a half a brain cell would want him to do it.

Answer my question. How does Cooper address any of these needs?[/quote]

It doesnt answer a need, but it does get better talent on the team. The problem with drafting for need is you are always taking lesser players. One year, not much difference. 5 years later, you have average talent at a lot of positions when you could have above average talent at a lot of positions. If you draft for need one year, you will continue down that track.

I personally am hoping Fowler or Williams falls to us, but that doesnt mean if the GM thinks the best talent available is a WR, that he should pass on taking the pick. Football players have a limited time in the league, At some point in the future, we will need new WR's.

Drafting a WR this year when we have 2 high paid WR's that have contracts running out in a year or two means we wont have to scramble then, and can let them walk giving us extra money to pursue other talent.

I want to fix the OL and defense first and foremost, but I dont want us taking lesser talent than we could have and claiming that we did good in the draft because we may have filled a hole. Take BPA at every pick. 5 years down the road, the team is so much better for it. The draft for need stuff is short sighted and leads to bad teams. Just look at the Redskins the last couple of decades. Chasing high priced FA's and drafting for need, not talent.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=redskinsfan1980;1111122]I don't think the smartest GM in the league would draft a wr 5th overall with all of the holes on this team. I don't think any fan with a half a brain cell would want him to do it.

Answer my question. How does Cooper address any of these needs?[/quote]

Straight up BPA....He apparently lives by it.
Live it.....Know it....Love it......

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

I like Cooper a lot...with a few of the guys that are pretty certain to be there at 5 Cooper isn't the slam dunk BPA. There will be at least 1 very good OLB that has similar upside to Cooper and various other top-end players. Cooper would be a luxury

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1111112]I pick Williams. No questions asked..even if it was Fowler and not Beasley I would still pick Williams.

I think its much easier to find a good edge rusher then it is to find an impactful 34 DE and our DL needs them...Hatcher is merely a rental. And more importantly for me Leonard is clearly the BPA in my eyes.

I don't buy that whole sure thing or guarantee baloney some draft guys say. I think prediction is a myth because people are people there is no predicting what anyone will do. HOWEVER I believe in assessment and evaluation and based on those I believe its possible to accurately rank the draft eligible players based on what we can know. Prediction? Imho is myth. Any prospect can bust or pro-bowler from the 1st pick to an UDFA and the difference in talent that separates is never as great as we think. The difference in actual talent between a 1st round QB and UDFA isn't nearly as wide a margin as the distance in their draft selection.

I say all that only to say any prospect can bust and there are no guarantees.

For my money I'll take Cooper.

I lean more towards being a BPA guy then a 'need' guy but even when it comes to need I wouldn't put OLB/edge rusher as a premium 1st round need on this team. I'm of the mindset that you a 34 defense "needs" 1 premium OLB pass rusher and having a 2nd while nice isn't something to chase after at the expense of other positions.

Also I think Coopers impact on the passing game would be greater then any other receiver selected in this draft and I'm not sure about the difference between Fowler/Beasley and say an Eli Harold or Nate Orchard or Frank Clark or Davis Tull or Deion Barnes or Art Norman. Heck the top rookie edge rusher last year weren't first rounders they were 5th rounders.

So given the choice between Cooper/Fowler/Beasely I take Cooper easy.[/quote]

wr's can be found anywhere in the draft. Look around the league and see how many mid rounders are playing. Elite pass rushers are much harder to find. We only have one pass rusher and he's not even elite. Obviously we still struggle to get off the field on 3rd down and getting a sack master seems to be a priority. Murphy simply didn't show that skill set last year.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=redskinsfan1980;1111118]I don't know about you but 6'1 doesn't impress me due to the fact that there are a lot of corners in this league that's 6'0+. If you're talking about a guy in 6'5 or 6'6 range then you're talking a match up nightmare.

This team has been needing a consistent pass rush for years. It's an immediate, short, and long term need. If you ever want to ever have a good team? We need a good defense. There are some good pass rushers in this draft. I'm more than willing to risk getting one of them before a draft a player we definitely don't need.[/quote]

DeSean Jackson is a matchup nightmare, Steve Smith was a matchup nightmare, Santana Moss, Hakeem Nicks, Odell Beckham, Dez Bryant, Torry Holt, Wes Welker all these guys are or were matchup nightmares, you just don't want to draft a WR, but don't make it seem like if you aren't 6'5" you can't be a matchup nightmare.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

Drafting Cooper would be a mistake. Cooper might be a great receiver but good teams don't invest 1st round picks in receivers. Just look at the two Superbowl teams and how many 1st rounders they used on their receivers. It is like drafting a Running Back in the 1st round.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=donofriose;1111146]Drafting Cooper would be a mistake. Cooper might be a great receiver but good teams don't invest 1st round picks in receivers. Just look at the two Superbowl teams and how many 1st rounders they used on their receivers. It is like drafting a Running Back in the 1st round.[/quote]

Didn't 6 teams just draft a WR in the first Rd last year? If Cooper is the BPA, take him

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

Changed my pick from mariota to fowler Jr

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111117]
1. While he is a very good football player, Kerrigan isn't what I consider to be a premium OLB pass rusher.[/quote]We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. Ryan was tied for 7th in sacks and top 3 in OLB behind only Justin Houston and Pernell McPhee for pass rush productivity.

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111117]2. Since when is one top-notch edge rusher enough?[/quote]Who said having one was enough? I didn't.

Here's what I did say...[quote=30gut;1111112]...I wouldn't put OLB/edge rusher as a premium 1st round need on this team. I'm of the mindset that you a 34 defense "needs" 1 premium OLB pass rusher and having a 2nd while nice isn't something to chase after at the expense of other positions.........and I'm not sure about the difference between Fowler/Beasley and say an Eli Harold or Nate Orchard or Frank Clark or Davis Tull or Deion Barnes or Art Norman. Heck the top rookie edge rusher last year weren't first rounders they were 5th rounders.[/quote]

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1111134]wr's can be found anywhere in the draft. Look around the league and see how many mid rounders are playing. Elite pass rushers are much harder to find.[/quote]Any position can be found anywhere in the draft that statement doesn't really say anything.

You know which edge rushers led this rookie class in sacks? Jonathan Newsome and Aaron Lynch were tied with 6 sacks both were [B][I][U]5th[/U][/I][/B] round picks.

Meanwhile the 1st round rookie WRs are making a huge impact with the tougher pass interference rules.

This really isn't my point but since you brought it up it seems the opposite of your intention is true.

[quote]Obviously we still struggle to get off the field on 3rd down and getting a sack master seems to be a priority. Murphy simply didn't show that skill set last year[/quote]We really don't know what Murphy is right now good or bad. And the defense had a lot of issues last year not just OLB/edge rusher and for me the problems started on DL where we still only had 1 DL that could create any type of pressure or upfield penetration and a secondary that was giving up quick easy throws all day.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1111147]Didn't 6 teams just draft a WR in the first Rd last year? If Cooper is the BPA, take him[/quote]

This whole BPA thing is overblown. What if the BPA in each round is a WR? Should SM draft seven WR's? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. Need must factor into the equation.

A good question to ask prior to the draft would be "Where do we need to get better?". Dallas drafted OL in the first round two years in a row and were criticized by the draft experts for their picks. Both of those players earned All-Pro honors and now Dallas has one of the better O-Lines in the NFL.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

^^ Exactly. I get that Cooper is a bit of a luxury (this year, not so much next year or the year after) AND that a explosive pass rusher to pair with Kerrigan would significantly improve the pass rush.

At the same time, neither Beasley, nor Fowler, nor Gregory, nor Ray stands out to me as a clear "This guy is a guaranteed game changer at the NFL level." In fact, each one has a good chance of being a bust. Cooper will not be a bust.

As for the "you can get WR's anywhere" argument, the same can be said for OLB or, for that matter, any position.

If you trust your talent evaluation, you take the BPA unless you do not and, in the next two to three years. Even then, if you have the BPA head and shoulders above the need play (for example - safety or OT in this year's draft), take the BPA. That's how you build long term, otherwise you have a team of mediocre talent always chasing risks.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

Good article on Cooper:

CFF Player Profile: Amari Cooper, WR
[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/04/16/cff-player-profile-amari-cooper-wr/[/url]

[B][U]Overview and Stats[/U][/B]

It’s not too often you find a guy who is at the top of the per-snap metrics and the overall cumulative stats, but that’s how good Cooper was in last season. He led the FBS with 178 targets in 2014. He also led with 124 receptions. He led all draft eligible players with 1,727 yards, 16 touchdowns and 26 missed tackles by defenders forced. As impressive as all that is, those are cumulative numbers that can be skewed by a relentless targeting of a receiver. He also led all draft eligible players in yards per route run with 3.97, well clear of the next best player.

To put that into some perspective, here’s how it compares to the best players in the NFL in that category in 2014:
[IMG]https://pff-pffanalysisltd12.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/cff-profile-cooper-table.png[/IMG]

Obviously NFL receivers are working against a higher caliber of defensive back, but you can see how impressive those numbers from Cooper are. Even a player like Odell Beckham Jr, who missed time to start the season and then put up incredible numbers in his shortened playing time, can’t come close to the level of production Cooper had on a per-snap basis in the passing game.

Cooper led all draft eligible players in this regard while Kevin White, suggested by some as a better player overall, was 10th.

[B][U]The Tape[/U][/B]

So we know Cooper is productive, that much is almost self evident, but what are you getting if you take him in the draft, and why do we view him as a step above any other receiver in this draft?

You expect to be wowed by athleticism and physical traits when you turn on the tape of college receivers. If you watch Kevin White, or Dorial Green-Beckham, or Breshad Perriman those are the things that jump out. You’re watching superior athletes beating up on defensive backs that just can’t match their measurables. When you watch Cooper though that isn’t what stands out. That’s not to say he doesn’t have those measurables, but the things that stand out about his game are different.

He looks like a polished, veteran NFL receiver already. He can use his hands at the line to defeat the jam and contact from defensive backs like it’s already instinct. This is something most college receivers struggle with and it takes them a while to learn it in the NFL. Cooper is already a master. Teams practically gave up trying to jam him at all because he would just swat the corner’s arms away and then destroy him for quickness off the line while he was still reeling from the hand-duel.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

"I'm of the mindset that you a 34 defense "needs" 1 premium OLB pass rusher..."

That's not saying we need only 1 top-notch edge rusher?

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111153]This whole BPA thing is overblown. What if the BPA in each round is a WR? Should SM draft seven WR's? Of course not. That would be ridiculous.[/quote]Of course it would be ridiculous but its also not nearly an accurate description of how BPA works.

Many people forget or don't realize that Best Player Available not only considers the other prospects in the draft BUT its also BPA vs other players on the team considering the prospect.

So lets say I run a 34 defense and my staff believes the base defense calls for 1 designated pass rusher and we feel the team already has a premium player/pro-bowl caliber player for that role. Come draft time for a base personnel pass rushing OLB to be the BPA they would need to be better then the player we already have.

OR more to your point

If a team has 3 WRs that fits the design of their offense or they considers pro-bowl caliber then they wouldn't keep drafting WRs.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

Im put out a crazy scenario. We trade down with the Vikings and pick up AP. We draft the Gregory or Shane Ray at 11.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111154]^^ Exactly. I get that Cooper is a bit of a luxury (this year, not so much next year or the year after) AND that a explosive pass rusher to pair with Kerrigan would significantly improve the pass rush.

At the same time, neither Beasley, nor Fowler, nor Gregory, nor Ray stands out to me as a clear "This guy is a guaranteed game changer at the NFL level." In fact, each one has a good chance of being a bust. Cooper will not be a bust.

As for the "you can get WR's anywhere" argument, the same can be said for OLB or, for that matter, any position.

If you trust your talent evaluation, you take the BPA unless you do not and, in the next two to three years. Even then, if you have the BPA head and shoulders above the need play (for example - safety or OT in this year's draft), take the BPA. That's how you build long term, otherwise you have a team of mediocre talent always chasing risks.[/quote]

I guess I'm a "draft for need" guy, after all. Hell, I don't even want the #5 pick this year unless Leonard Williams is there when we pick. I would like something crazy to happen, like Mariota falling to us, so we can use the #5 pick to hold-up some other team for a bonanza of draft picks. We've got a lot of holes to fill.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

a different question: How many drop down trades would be too many. For example, dropping from 5 to 11 takes us from the true can't miss talent to good scouting gets you solid talent, and maybe find a gem. But does a 2nd trade from 11 to 16 take us out of that range, to just throwing darts talent. Suppose for those two trades you picked up 2 to 3 high caliber picks( rounds 1/2 this year or next) and 3-4 medium picks (rounds 3/4 this year)

would you stop after the first trade, would you gamble on the 2nd, and is it even in the realm to throw a 3 trade in?

Or no trade no way, no how?

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

I think the consensus is that this is a draft deep in talent beyond the first couple rounds at OL and OLB. Two areas of need. Also, again, I think the consensus is that there is a drop-off in talent after the first 5-6 picks, another drop after 12 and then talent from 13 to the middle of the second is pretty much equivalent and dependent on draft boards and need will play a bigger role in teams selections.

So, for all the reasons discussed about trusting in Scot McC and his work prior to this particular draft, I would want as many top 100 picks as we can get this year. I have a good feeling about any pick McC makes in the first three rounds and am not sure anyone in the top 10 who would be available to us is likely to be a long-term game changer. While I don't want to trade out of the first, a couple trade downs that land us a couple extra 2's and/or 3's is fine by me.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1111163]a different question: How many drop down trades would be too many. For example, dropping from 5 to 11 takes us from the true can't miss talent to good scouting gets you solid talent, and maybe find a gem. But does a 2nd trade from 11 to 16 take us out of that range, to just throwing darts talent. Suppose for those two trades you picked up 2 to 3 high caliber picks( rounds 1/2 this year or next) and 3-4 medium picks (rounds 3/4 this year)

would you stop after the first trade, would you gamble on the 2nd, and is it even in the realm to throw a 3 trade in?

Or no trade no way, no how?[/quote]

We need an infusion of talent across the roster. At this point if we picked up some 2nds and 3rds and moved down into the middle of Rd 1 I'd be ok. If we ended up with the middle 1st, a couple 2nds, a 3rd, and a 4th it would be worth it right now.

That's four potential impact picks and/or ammunition to move around and get specific guys we have targeted.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1111163]a different question: How many drop down trades would be too many. For example, dropping from 5 to 11 takes us from the true can't miss talent to good scouting gets you solid talent, and maybe find a gem. But does a 2nd trade from 11 to 16 take us out of that range, to just throwing darts talent. Suppose for those two trades you picked up 2 to 3 high caliber picks( rounds 1/2 this year or next) and 3-4 medium picks (rounds 3/4 this year)

would you stop after the first trade, would you gamble on the 2nd, and is it even in the realm to throw a 3 trade in?

Or no trade no way, no how?[/quote]

More picks equals more chances to hit on a starter but we shouldn't be trading too low:

[url=http://datascopeanalytics.com/what-we-think/2012/05/01/the-chance-of-a-bust-in-the-nfl-draft]The chance of a bust in the NFL draft | Datascope Analytics[/url]

Also why trading picks with Tampa Bay in the Goldson trade is negligible.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

If possible I would like 5 to 6 picks in the top 100 so I figure that takes at least 2 trade backs. McLovin do your thang.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1111178]More picks equals more chances to hit on a starter but we shouldn't be trading too low:

[url=http://datascopeanalytics.com/what-we-think/2012/05/01/the-chance-of-a-bust-in-the-nfl-draft]The chance of a bust in the NFL draft | Datascope Analytics[/url]

Also why trading picks with Tampa Bay in the Goldson trade is negligible.[/quote]

For people wanting more proof why Scot's the guy, this chart be da***d.

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/3/1/8083611/scot-mccloughan-and-the-nfls-best-and-worst-drafting-gms]Scot McCloughan and the NFL's Best and Worst Drafting GMs - Hogs Haven[/url]

Also, for those in need of draft day Kool-Aid.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

^ Which year(s) is the author saying that Dan Snyder was the GM of Skins and made the draft picks?

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1111180]For people wanting more proof why Scot's the guy, this chart be da***d.

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/3/1/8083611/scot-mccloughan-and-the-nfls-best-and-worst-drafting-gms]Scot McCloughan and the NFL's Best and Worst Drafting GMs - Hogs Haven[/url]

Also, for those in need of draft day Kool-Aid.[/quote]

Good breakdown.

I think it's accurate to say SM is a top 5 talent evaluator. As long as Snyder stays out of his hair (and SM's own demons stay under control) he's definitely capable of building a winner here.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111182]^ Which year(s) is the author saying that Dan Snyder was the GM of Skins and made the draft picks?[/quote]

I don't think he specified, but he pointedly said he was avoiding getting into the quagmire that has been the Skins FO

[quote]For the Redskins executives you may notice that there's some overlap with Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder. I am counting the entire time that both men were here as time spent as GMs, because at a minimum each of them were some part of a decision-making duo or triumvirate. The same thing goes for Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan as well. [B]The focus of this study was not on the minutia and semantics of the Redskins' dysfunctional hierarchy.[/B][/quote]

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

a scenario I like :

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2015/04/17/seven-round-redskins-mock-draft-take-two/?tid=pm_sports_pop]Seven-round Redskins mock draft, take two - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1111156]"I'm of the mindset that you a 34 defense "needs" 1 premium OLB pass rusher..."

That's not saying we need only 1 top-notch edge rusher?[/QUOTE]Huh?

Just for the sake of accuracy I'm gonna clarify this...

[QUOTE=30gut;1111112]I'm of the mindset that you a 34 defense "needs" 1 premium OLB pass rusher and having a 2nd while nice isn't something to chase after at the expense of other positions.[/QUOTE]Notice I even put the word "needs" in quotes...yet....

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1111117]2. Since when is one top-notch edge rusher enough?[/QUOTE] To which I responded:[QUOTE=30gut;1111151]Who said having one was enough? I didn't.[/QUOTE] Reminding you that I never said that 'one top-notch edge rusher' is "enough".

On any given play in a base 34 only 1 OLB is rushing at a time. Numerous top 34 defenses have been built with having one premiere pass rushing OLB. So yeah I believe a 34 only 'needs' 1 premium OLB pass rusher but like I said its nice to have a 2nd.

I hope you understand the difference.
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I personally don't have anything against Fowler or Beasley as prospects nor as fits for this defense. Even if they're rotational players they would still provide a huge impact if they can bring the heat on 3rd downs. But I think we could find similar production from an edge rusher later in the draft.

Cooper on the other hand imho is easily the most complete WR on the time day 1. He's better at beating press, running routes and tracking the ball then Garcon and he runs a complete route tree (including routes that go inside numbers) unlike DeSean (whom I love, best deep threat in the game). Also, Coop could be the feature WR as early as 2016 when either Garcon or DeSean are both gone and Coop would cost less money to boot. I don't think there is another WR in the draft that brings the skills that Coop would bring from day 1 they only WR project that comes close for me is Nelson Agholor. Very similar skillset to Coop that also adds return ability KR/PR but isn't as polished.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

My top choices for the #5 pick:
1. Cooper - We aren't a player away from being a good team, we need to build with elite players. Cooper could be an instant and long term #1 WR in the AJ Green mold. Building with a long term vision, you grab those players when you can.
2. Beasley - While I think he eventually can become a 3 down player for at least the first couple of seasons, he will be a pass rushing/nickel specialist and excel in that role. That's not a bad thing with Kerrigan and Murphy already in place, the more pressure the better.
3. Williams - Dominant from what I've seen, not sure if he's a perfect 3-4 fit though. But like Cooper, build with elite players. If he can become part of a shutdown defensive line then I'll take it.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Paintrain;1111358]My top choices for the #5 pick:
1. Cooper - We aren't a player away from being a good team, we need to build with elite players. Cooper could be an instant and long term #1 WR in the AJ Green mold. Building with a long term vision, you grab those players when you can.
.[/quote]

if they take Cooper the Redskins will be spending about $25 million on wide receivers

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

So? We can afford it this year and it sets us up for financial flexibility next year.

Next year, we either renegotiate with BOTH Garcon and Jax OR find a new WR 1/2 while trying to negotiate long term deals with Williams and Kerrigan. If we have Cooper we can let either PG or DJax go and still have two solid WR's.

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Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111361]So? We can afford it this year and it sets us up for financial flexibility next year.

Next year, we either renegotiate with BOTH Garcon and Jax OR find a new WR 1/2 while trying to negotiate long term deals with Williams and Kerrigan. If we have Cooper we can let either PG or DJax go and still have two solid WR's.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk[/quote]

There are more urgent needs than WR - OL, OLB, S, DL, and TE

Next year RGIII, and Knighton either gets $$$$ or are cut/traded. The cap problems continue.