Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=30gut;1141927]Do they mean he's attempting to move to a 5-tech DE as in 34 Base D? Or do they mean a DE in a 4 man line that we use upwards of 65% of the time?

Saying a 34 OLB is moving to DE is vague.[/quote]

They are talking about moving to a base 3-4 DE, he already plays DE in nickle.

Gruden is talking about him playing 5 tech here:

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/With-Move-Inside-Trent-Murphys-Bulking-Up-Phase-Well-Underway/f369f103-65ac-4e48-8dcf-16fdbc9b1fc2]With Move Inside, Trent Murphy's Bulking Up Phase Well Underway[/url]

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1141951]They are talking about moving to a base 3-4 DE, he already plays DE in nickle.

Gruden is talking about him playing 5 tech here:

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/With-Move-Inside-Trent-Murphys-Bulking-Up-Phase-Well-Underway/f369f103-65ac-4e48-8dcf-16fdbc9b1fc2]With Move Inside, Trent Murphy's Bulking Up Phase Well Underway[/url][/quote]Thanks for the link and info.

I don't think Murph will be a good 5-tech 34 DE.
If they must move him have him rushing as a DT in nickel/ known passing situations

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=30gut;1141953]Thanks for the link and info.

I don't think Murph will be a good 5-tech 34 DE.
If they must move him have him rushing as a DT in nickel/ known passing situations[/quote]

He did that a lot in 2014 and 2015 in their "nascar" package.

He has a big frame and is already really strong. I believe he is going to be a DE without a big belly.

It seems like the team and McLovin are putting an emphasis on versatility. He is a smart player with killer reaction time off the snap.

I don't think he is going to be a star or a play maker but if he can continue to stop the run, like he has been good at already, and cover his responsibilities well, it's an experiment that may pay off.

Re: New Look Defense
 

Stopping the run as an OLB and occasional 43 DE is much different then as base 34 5-tech. I wish him all the luck but I think he's being misused if he'll be 5-tech. I hope I'm wrong.

Re: New Look Defense
 

Bulking up for him isnt a bad thing either way, little more size, as long as he works on keeping his quickness, could do good things in his continued development.

Re: New Look Defense
 

We'll see. He was a solid but unspectacular 3-4 OLB (essentially a borderline quality starter) at a position which really needs a guy with more pop (Hellooooo Junior). 3-4 DE's strike me as position in which the main job is to hold the point of attack and keep the LB's clean - any pass rush or penetration is just gravy. Part of me thinks this is the job TM was made to do, the only question is will he be able to put on the meat to do it at this level.

Just my perception. Really never understood the 3-4 DE's role. Always viewed them as basically 4-3 DT's. I am open to education: Just what is the 5 technique 3-4 DT responsible for? What is their role in our D as currently schemed?

Re: New Look Defense
 

Google is a great thing:

[url=http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/4/11/2082375/draft-terminology-the-three-technique-and-the-five-technique]Draft Terminology: The "Three Technique" and the "Five Technique" - Dawgs By Nature[/url]

[quote]•Physical and strong
•Able to play two gaps versus the run; able to shoot their hands right up into an offensive tackle's chest, stand him up, and then shed his block and move to either side of him to make a tackle.
•More intelligent or good at getting a read on what the offense is doing
•Not necessarily extremely quick or athletic, though this can be a bonus.[/quote]

If TM can get to 285 and retain short area quickness (getting his hands in place fast, and having a decent first step - both of which I think he has), I think he has a shot at being really good. The article indicates that certain schemes like their 3-4 DE's huge. In the trenches, bulk often is simply a substitute for strength. IF TM has the strength to "stand [a 300+ pound OT] him up, and then shed his block," he will be great. Just not sure he will have the strength to make up for the lack of bulk.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1141965]Google is a great thing:

[url=http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/4/11/2082375/draft-terminology-the-three-technique-and-the-five-technique]Draft Terminology: The "Three Technique" and the "Five Technique" - Dawgs By Nature[/url]



If TM can get to 285 and retain short area quickness (getting his hands in place fast, and having a decent first step - both of which I think he has), I think he has a shot at being really good. The article indicates that certain schemes like their 3-4 DE's huge. In the trenches, bulk often is simply a substitute for strength. IF TM has the strength to "stand [a 300+ pound OT] him up, and then shed his block," he will be great. Just not sure he will have the strength to make up for the lack of bulk.[/quote]

TM would be more of a Wade Phillips (1 gap) DE in a 3-4 than a Dick Lebeau DE.

Wolf, a DE for Denver in 2015, has very similar height and weight to Murphy.

Re: New Look Defense
 

A single tear rolls down my cheek whenever I hear Wades name...still mad he's not a Redskin

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1141965]
Just not sure he will have the strength to make up for the lack of bulk.[/quote]

um, he does steer wrestling, so...

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=That Guy;1142015]um, he does steer wrestling, so...[/quote]

Well, his mass times his velocity equals his momentum, so he has two ways to improve the force he can apply to get past offensive linemen. He's not going to be able to get much faster but he can surely get bigger. He is too trim. I want to see a big belly and some love handles on him, like any respectable DL has. Eat up, big fella!

Re: New Look Defense
 

If the defense could go from an injured Cully, journeyman-jag Will Blackmon and a game but green rook in Dunbar to Josh freakin Norman it would be a huge bump for the D. HUGE.

The pass rush was good last year, IF Paea can replace Hatch's production and Gallette can stay healthy the pass rush will be even better...

If we can pull this off the pass D just got a lot better.

Re: New Look Defense
 

With Norman, our CB's are: Norman, Breeland, Culliver, Blackmon, Dunbar & Toler. With that group, we can match up with anyone AND have a lot of scheme flexibility. If Breeland continues to develop, however, it may be tough to hold onto both he and Norman long term.

I thought Dunbar flashed well last year. If he progresses with a full year under his belt at his new position, we really could get really creative [I]and[/I] he could be the "Next Man Up" in the long term plan. He was a great story last year and I am really hoping he turns into the real deal.

Toler and Blackmon as a 4th and 5th CB go from liabilities to incredible depth. Sure, your WR2 would have the advantage, but your WR3 would probably be about even and your WR4/5? Toler and/or Blackmon would pretty much own them.

I am on board fully with the Norman move. Now about safety ...

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1142121]With Norman, our CB's are: Norman, Breeland, Culliver, Blackmon, Dunbar & Toler. With that group, we can match up with anyone AND have a lot of scheme flexibility. If Breeland continues to develop, however, it may be tough to hold onto both he and Norman long term.

I thought Dunbar flashed well last year. If he progresses with a full year under his belt at his new position, we really could get really creative [I]and[/I] he could be the "Next Man Up" in the long term plan. He was a great story last year and I am really hoping he turns into the real deal.

Toler and Blackmon as a 4th and 5th CB go from liabilities to incredible depth. Sure, your WR2 would have the advantage, but your WR3 would probably be about even and your WR4/5? Toler and/or Blackmon would pretty much own them.

I am on board fully with the Norman move. Now about safety ...[/quote]

Karl Joseph at 21???

Re: New Look Defense
 

^^ Yeah. I have seen that in a couple mocks. Works for me if it works for Scotty.

Re: New Look Defense
 

Ahhh, Karl Joseph at 21...

[IMG]https://media2.giphy.com/media/v3p3CtSrNYNLa/200.gif[/IMG]

Re: New Look Defense
 

Id be pretty excited to see us take a defensive linemen in both the first and second round. Get us a big man SOB for the nose then pick up an athletic End to play opposite of Baker. If the draft is as deep as they say it is at DLine we should get two Day-1 starters right there.

Re: New Look Defense
 

The Washington Post's Mike Jones hears Redskins DB Kyshoen Jarrett has lost over 30 pounds since his January neck injury.

Jones reports Jarrett "hasn't made much significant progress" while rehabbing nerve damage in his neck. He suffered the injury in Week 17 last year. Per Jones, Jarrett's neck injury "has severely diminished the strength in his right shoulder," he "still doesn’t have a lot of feeling in that side," and Jarrett's weight "has dropped drastically because he can't lift." Jones believes "it's hard to imagine" Jarrett contributing in his second season.


Really a damn shame...such a great kid. Hopefully he can get back to it sooner than later...

Re: New Look Defense
 

My bro saw him at the VT Spring Game last weekend and said his right arm literally looks like a 12 year old boy's arm. He said he kept holding it behind him and when someone wanted to shake his hand, he'd only use the left hand. Not looking good.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1142447]My bro saw him at the VT Spring Game last weekend and said his right arm literally looks like a 12 year old boy's arm. He said he kept holding it behind him and when someone wanted to shake his hand, he'd only use the left hand. Not looking good.[/quote]

yikes!...damn this sux. We still need to fix safety on the team.

sidebar...heard the Hookies looked decent. fingers cross Fuente is the guy

Re: New Look Defense
 

He says the defense absolutely killed the offense, which is to be expected since it's the same system. He said Fuentes is changing the culture down there. He said last week they had a practice where he said, "OK, defense, you're done with practice. Offense, you have to be the laziest, most entitled bunch of mother fuckers I've ever met. You should be embarrassed by yourselves." Then they proceeded to have the best practice he's seen in the four years he's been there.

Said the offense will look insane this year.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1142451]He says the defense absolutely killed the offense, which is to be expected since it's the same system. He said Fuentes is changing the culture down there. He said last week they had a practice where he said, "OK, defense, you're done with practice. Offense, you have to be the laziest, most entitled bunch of mother fuckers I've ever met. You should be embarrassed by yourselves." Then they proceeded to have the best practice he's seen in the four years he's been there.

Said the offense will look insane this year.[/quote]

that team needs a kick in the ass fo sho. Beamer had gotten too lax

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=Chico23231;1142446]The Washington Post's Mike Jones hears Redskins DB Kyshoen Jarrett has lost over 30 pounds since his January neck injury.

Jones reports Jarrett "hasn't made much significant progress" while rehabbing nerve damage in his neck. He suffered the injury in Week 17 last year. Per Jones, Jarrett's neck injury "has severely diminished the strength in his right shoulder," he "still doesn’t have a lot of feeling in that side," and Jarrett's weight "has dropped drastically because he can't lift." Jones believes "it's hard to imagine" Jarrett contributing in his second season.


Really a damn shame...such a great kid. Hopefully he can get back to it sooner than later...[/quote]

Didn't Scot say Jarrett and Culliver's rehab was going well ?

Re: New Look Defense
 

jarrett's injury might be career ending. there's obviously something really wrong there.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2016/6/4/11858918/pro-football-focus-predicts-redskins-will-have-same-record-as-cowboys]Pro Football Focus predicts Redskins will have same record as Cowboys - Hogs Haven[/url]

[QUOTE]7. Washington (9-7)

In 2015, Washington somewhat overachieved, considering their roster. While they added CB Josh Norman from Carolina, which should be a big help to their defensive backfield, they also lost talent on defense. Terrance Knighton was one of their best run-defenders, and Jason Hatcher was one of their best pass-rushers, and neither remain on the roster. On offense, Alfred Morris was their highest-graded running back, and he was also lost over the offseason (signed with Dallas). Others in the division improved at more positions, which will make it difficult for Washington to repeat as NFC East champs.[/QUOTE]

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=30gut;1144113][url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2016/6/4/11858918/pro-football-focus-predicts-redskins-will-have-same-record-as-cowboys]Pro Football Focus predicts Redskins will have same record as Cowboys - Hogs Haven[/url][/quote]

Was worried there for a hot minute, because the author wasn't listed.

[url]https://twitter.com/pff_natejahnke[/url]

I thought it was someone who mattered.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1142451]He says the defense absolutely killed the offense, which is to be expected since it's the same system. He said Fuentes is changing the culture down there. He said last week they had a practice where he said, "OK, defense, you're done with practice. Offense, you have to be the laziest, most entitled bunch of mother fuckers I've ever met. You should be embarrassed by yourselves." Then they proceeded to have the best practice he's seen in the four years he's been there.

Said the offense will look insane this year.[/quote]

Talk about highs and lows, I got all excited reading this because I've been waiting for Tech to get back on the come up, and then I read about Kyshoen Jarrett's weight loss/etc. and now I'm just like bleh. If that injury really is a career ender I will feel so bad for him.

Re: New Look Defense
 

I'm cautiously optimistic. There have just been too many seasons that have come and gone where I'm thinking we will have a better defense and then the season comes and they look terrible. I am at least encouraged in the fact that we seem to be building with young talent through the draft as opposed to the free agent carousel.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=dbrown;1144126]I'm cautiously optimistic. There have just been too many seasons that have come and gone where I'm thinking we will have a better defense and then the season comes and they look terrible. I am at least encouraged in the fact that we seem to be building with young talent through the draft as opposed to the free agent carousel.[/quote]

Cravens, Gallette, Matt Ioannidis, Bruton, and Josh Norman...we better NOT be terrible and needs to be improved for Barry's sake.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=Chico23231;1144128]Cravens, Gallette, Matt Ioannidis, Bruton, and Josh Norman...we better NOT be terrible and needs to be improved for Barry's sake.[/quote]

I see a lot of people mentioning Ioannidis and it kind of surprises me. People talk as if he's a day 1 starter and it seems they forget he was a 5th round selection. I know Scot knows how to pick them but I don't normally look to a 5th round rookie to revamp their position.

Yes, in time he can develop. But I don't think he belongs in the same category as Norman and Gallete where they have PROVED to be talented at the NFL level.

Not bashing Ioannidis in the least, just surprised to hear him mentioned so often. However, I also haven't see much tape on him... Do you legitimately think our team got better by drafting him at this point?


I'm with dbrown.... Cautiously Optimistic.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=sevier2;1144129]I see a lot of people mentioning Ioannidis and it kind of surprises me. People talk as if he's a day 1 starter and it seems they forget he was a 5th round selection. I know Scot knows how to pick them but I don't normally look to a 5th round rookie to revamp their position.

Yes, in time he can develop. But I don't think he belongs in the same category as Norman and Gallete where they have PROVED to be talented at the NFL level.

Not bashing Ioannidis in the least, just surprised to hear him mentioned so often. However, I also haven't see much tape on him... Do you legitimately think our team got better by drafting him at this point?


I'm with dbrown.... Cautiously Optimistic.[/quote]

I used to have that same mentality prior to Scot, but after looking his rankings, he was up there in a lot of categories. Also, remember the DT depth this year. He likely could have been a 2nd or 3rd rounder any other draft.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=sevier2;1144129]I see a lot of people mentioning Ioannidis and it kind of surprises me. People talk as if he's a day 1 starter and it seems they forget he was a 5th round selection. I know Scot knows how to pick them but I don't normally look to a 5th round rookie to revamp their position.

Yes, in time he can develop. But I don't think he belongs in the same category as Norman and Gallete where they have PROVED to be talented at the NFL level.

Not bashing Ioannidis in the least, just surprised to hear him mentioned so often. However, I also haven't see much tape on him... Do you legitimately think our team got better by drafting him at this point?


I'm with dbrown.... Cautiously Optimistic.[/quote]

I just like him because it rhymes with Leonidas.



[IMG]http://www.fakingnews.firstpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/800x600.jpg[/IMG]

Re: New Look Defense
 

Sounds like...madness...to me...

Re: New Look Defense
 

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/defense-and-pass-pressure-2015]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Defense and Pass Pressure, 2015[/url]

We ranked 28th in the league in the percentage of defensive plays we pressured the QB last year.

This ranking is pretty much in line with what we saw on the field, and didn't see past the 1st quarter of the playoff game last year.

If we improve this stat dramatically WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING ELSE we will be exponentially better.

Re: New Look Defense
 

Any of you football gurus know why we give a 4-3 look against I formations?

I've heard multiple people on espn 980 comment on the fact they do which matches what the D does in game, but I've never heard an explanation why.

New Look Defense (again) 2017
 

didn't want to start a new thread...

By Football Outsiders:

[B][U]Defense 2016[/U][/B]

25th Overall
27th Weighted
24th Pass
25th Run

DL:
Run rank 27th
Pass Rush rank 9th

[B][U]Defense 2015[/U][/B]

21st Overall
20th Weighted
20th Pass
22nd Run

DL
Run rank 24th
Pass Rush rank 9th

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1144587][url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/defense-and-pass-pressure-2015]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Defense and Pass Pressure, 2015[/url]

We ranked 28th in the league in the percentage of defensive plays we pressured the QB last year.

This ranking is pretty much in line with what we saw on the field, and didn't see past the 1st quarter of the playoff game last year.

If we improve this stat dramatically WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING ELSE we will be exponentially better.[/quote]


great point ! I think that sacks are overrated .....give me a DL that forces bad passes, or interceptions consistently, instead of a DL that gives the QB 4 or 5 seconds and a few sacks.

How do you propose the Redskins dramatically improve the pass rush ?

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1167921]great point ! I think that sacks are overrated .....give me a DL that forces bad passes, or interceptions consistently, instead of a DL that gives the QB 4 or 5 seconds and a few sacks.

How do you propose the Redskins dramatically improve the pass rush ?[/quote]

I'd start with Junior not tearing an achilles for a 3rd straight year. Next, hoping Jonathan Allen or Solomon Thomas magically falls to 17.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1167940]I'd start with Junior not tearing an achilles for a 3rd straight year. [B]Next, hoping Jonathan Allen or Solomon Thomas magically falls to 17.[/B][/quote]

Or, Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton, T.J. Watt, Takkarist McKinney, etc. There are a lot of pass rush prospects this year. I think we could probably get some pass rush help beyond Round 1. The Skins might consider moving up, for a change, if the right pass rusher is still on the board in the second or third round.

Re: New Look Defense
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1167921]great point ! I think that sacks are overrated .....give me a DL that forces bad passes, or interceptions consistently, instead of a DL that gives the QB 4 or 5 seconds and a few sacks.[/quote]Just fyi, that article was about the 2015 season and the pressures include sacks they're not independent of sacks.

[quote]How do you propose the Redskins dramatically improve the pass rush ?[/quote]Interior pressure and more edge pressure. And having the lead.

The defense needs everything.

But one note from the article stuck out to me:
[quote=FO]Carolina and Denver both registered as top-five defenses both with and without pressure, which certainly does a lot to explain how we ended up with our Super Bowl 50 matchup.[/quote]

Its all important stopping the run, pressuring the QB and pass coverage and they are all correlated.

Pass coverage shouldn't be forgotten. Adding a solid CB/NB can really help this defense with or without pressure. AND this draft is filled with solid CBs.

There's tons of players I would target in this draft class at Edge rusher and CB.