Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

He gradually improved each year in the league, he didn't exactly come out of nowhere. And at 28 he's right in his prime and will be for the next 2-3 seasons.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

This is quite possibly one of the dumbest moves of all time by Carolina. Wtf were they thinking? Norman wasn't gonna hold out...13.87 million ain't shit in the big scheme of things. Huggggggge hole

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=Orakpwned;1142424]This site [URL="http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php"]broke down the financials of the signing[/URL], and graded it.

I actually think that grade was generous. Norman is getting up there in age and just had one good year. Not sure he deserves best CB in the league money.[/quote]

LOL - "Getting up there in age" is just crazy talk. Came out of college same time as Cousins, will be 28 until December 14. Prime of football life is what we bought.

As far as what he deserved, we'll see. He's an All Pro cornerback in this league. Have you seen the money doled out for quality talent this year? All that at a position of need for us. We bought ourselves a first round pick with proven performance record.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=Giantone;1142417]Last time they did that it was some guy named....Parcells.[/quote]

The was Wellington, not his tool son John lol.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1142433]LOL - "Getting up there in age" is just crazy talk. Came out of college same time as Cousins, will be 28 until December 14. Prime of football life is what we bought.[/quote]

Yeah, totally agree. People are nuts if they think 28 is old or past prime for a top CB.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

Don't forget he will be 29 in December, so in football years that makes him 33 right now.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

29 in December? Well, shoot. He is practically an ancient cripple.

For comparison:

Patrick Peterson 26 at start of the season
Richard Sherman 28 (as of March 30th)
Aqui Talib, 30 (as of February)
Revis 31 at start of the season (July B-day)

and, although not a top five corner ...

Janoris Jenkins 27 - 28 in October.

I am just not seeing the issue here.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1142454]29 in December? Well, shoot. He is practically an ancient cripple.

For comparison:

Patrick Peterson 26 at start of the season
Richard Sherman 28 (as of March 30th)
Aqui Talib, 30 (as of February)
Revis 31 at start of the season (July B-day)

and, although not a top five corner ...

[B]Janoris Jenkins 27 - 28 in October.[/B]

I am just not seeing the issue here.[/quote]

According to the Panthers, Jenkins is a top 5 corner, since they wanted to give Norman a contract that was less or similar to Jenkins. :doh:

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1142455]According to the Panthers, Jenkins is a top 5 corner, since they wanted to give Norman a contract that was less or similar to Jenkins. :doh:[/quote]

Alternatively:
(1) Carolina was attempting to limit their expenses, doesn't value CB play as much as it does the front seven, or, on their defense, felt Norman was not the type of impact player to give top dollar too b/c they have some very important players coming up in the next couple of years; [B][I][U]or[/U][/I][/B]

(2) In the opening days of free agency, NYG vastly overpaid for a mediocre, 2nd tier (at best) cornerback who was the second choice on his own team but still one of few available on the free agency market that didn't obviously suck.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1142456]Alternatively:
(1) Carolina was attempting to limit their expenses, doesn't value CB play as much as it does the front seven, or, on their defense, felt Norman was not the type of impact player to give top dollar too b/c they have some very important players coming up in the next couple of years; [B][I][U]or[/U][/I][/B]

(2) In the opening days of free agency, NYG vastly overpaid for a mediocre, 2nd tier (at best) cornerback who was the second choice on his own team but still one of few available on the free agency market that didn't obviously suck.[/quote]

carolinas gm basically said they looked at their roster and decided they rather invest that money into the DL. i think they got two guys coming up to big deals in the next year or two. that's what i got from it anyways.

it's also possible it was a power play because he didn't like the way the agent played things.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

Janoris Jenkins contract probably had a big impact on negotiations with Carolina.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

Just found this:

[quote]The Giants are paying Jenkins a tremendous amount of money - $12 million a year on average - but as Jordan mentioned above, they can only sign the guys who are available. [B]Jenkins is not Josh Norman[/B], but he is an above-average cornerback who gives the Giants the chance to stay young at the position while gaining more durability. They paid him market value, based on what the market is.[/quote]

[url=http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/03/giants_add_cb_janoris_jenkins_breaking_down_the_si.html]Did the Giants pay too much for CB Janoris Jenkins? | NJ.com[/url]

Don't know who the author is or if he is a respected analyst. Just thought it was funny and one more thing to "point and laugh" at the Giants.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

The football gods smiled upon Washington when Norman was released. I keep hearing carolina doesn't value the position, well they valued it enough to offer Josh a mega deal (for them) and more money by a substantial amount that they have ever paid a CB. Yes they have multiple players coming up in FA next year. But so do we and we valued Josh where he should have been.

So I thank the Giants for over paying Jenkins and the Panthers for trying to get a home team discount. HTTR

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=Evilgrin;1142462]Janoris Jenkins contract probably had a big impact on negotiations with Carolina.[/quote]

As much as I hate to say it, it looks like we should be thanking NY. No doubt the money an average guy like Jenkins got was a big factor in what Norman's agent tried to get. So if Jenkins got a reasonable contract maybe that he gives the Panthers more ammo to get Norman on a reasonable deal.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

No doubt. NYG's signing of Jenkins, Carolina's salary structure, and the timing of free agency, created a perfect storm that allowed us to land a top 5 CB on a D that needed it.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1142502]No doubt. NYG's signing of Jenkins, Carolina's salary structure, and the timing of free agency, created a perfect storm that allowed us to land a top 5 CB on a D that needed it.[/quote]

Let's just hope the football gods keep smiling on us for the next couple of days, at least...

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1142465]Just found this:



[url=http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/03/giants_add_cb_janoris_jenkins_breaking_down_the_si.html]Did the Giants pay too much for CB Janoris Jenkins? | NJ.com[/url]

Don't know who the author is or if he is a respected analyst. Just thought it was funny and one more thing to "point and laugh" at the Giants.[/quote]

LOL, whole lot of teams from the NFC East have a list of look and laugh at stuff!

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

Do other forums have village idiots too?

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1142515]Do other forums have village idiots too?[/quote]

Good question. Where else do you post? <rim-shot>

;)

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

A sharp tongue does not mean you have a keen mind

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/kgjrcnF.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

We always get burned on this kind of signing.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=Giantone;1142526]A sharp tongue does not mean you have a keen mind[/quote]That post... isn't it ironic?

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

if you think we wasted out money. If you think he may be Albert H
If you are on board with this move.
Every skins fan needs to know who we signed. In his own words

Y'all have to read this story

[url=http://www.theplayerstribune.com/josh-norman-redskins-panthers/]Steal Your Bologna | The Players' Tribune[/url]

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1143424]if you think we wasted out money. If you think he may be Albert H
If you are on board with this move.
Every skins fan needs to know who we signed. In his own words

Y'all have to read this story

[URL="http://www.theplayerstribune.com/josh-norman-redskins-panthers/"]Steal Your Bologna | The Players' Tribune[/URL][/quote]

I would think Albert be more motivated about people stealing his bologna over Norman.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1143424]if you think we wasted out money. If you think he may be Albert H
If you are on board with this move.
Every skins fan needs to know who we signed. In his own words

Y'all have to read this story

[url=http://www.theplayerstribune.com/josh-norman-redskins-panthers/]Steal Your Bologna | The Players' Tribune[/url][/quote]

damn, this defense can be much improved if Barry can get them ballin.

Barry got some talent now, he better follow through

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=mredskins;1143426]I would think Albert be more motivated about people stealing his bologna over Norman.[/quote]

AH had [URL="http://www.theplayerstribune.com/albert-haynesworth-letter-to-my-younger-self/"]one[/URL] over there too. I hadn't read it. Having read it now, and contrasting Norman's with it, JN's passion is self-evident, just like AH's inability to "get it" during his NFL career was.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

OK -- I love this article. Awesome.

"It’s a passing league. The last line of defense is the cornerback. I believe I’m the best at my position. If you don’t believe me, I actually thank you for it. [U]I’ll think of you when I’m cutting grass[/U]. "

I freaking LOVE this!

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

Haynesworth vs Norman... totally different situations, players, and most importantly the decision maker who brought them here.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

My post was a joke. You know AH a fat pig might like bologna more then Josh

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=MTK;1142427]He gradually improved each year in the league, he didn't exactly come out of nowhere. And at 28 he's right in his prime and will be for the next 2-3 seasons.[/quote]

I will confess it seems like a lot of money to me but I am also no scout or GM. So do you think that means the FO considers the next 2-3 years as the best opportunity to contend for a Super Bowl? While a team will always have holes that are unable to address, I am worried about the front seven. I also feel that if they do view this as their "window' that means that they will be very determined to not let Cousins walk next offseason.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

I think it means they thought they could lock up an all-pro corner at market value for the 2-3 years we hope he will be in his prime while continuing to build.

I don't think SM looks at things in such a short term as "We are going to win in the next 2-3 years and, if not, do a roster burn b/c the window will have closed on this lot." My impression is that he is building for a consistent winner and Josh Norman is a piece to that puzzle. I really don't think Norman's contract is going to stop us from continuing with SM's build model. If we don't end up winning it all with Norman in the next 2-3 years, then Fuller steps in and, having had time to develop, covers that piece of the puzzle.

Norman was a solid addition that makes us better and doesn't cripple our chances to continue improving the roster. Nothing more, nothing less.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1143462]I think it means they thought they could lock up an all-pro corner at market value for the 2-3 years we hope he will be in his prime while continuing to build.

I don't think SM looks at things in such a short term as "We are going to win in the next 2-3 years and, if not, do a roster burn b/c the window will have closed on this lot." My impression is that he is building for a consistent winner and Josh Norman is a piece to that puzzle. I really don't think Norman's contract is going to stop us from continuing with SM's build model. If we don't end up winning it all with Norman in the next 2-3 years, then Fuller steps in and, having had time to develop, covers that piece of the puzzle.

Norman was a solid addition that makes us better and doesn't cripple our chances to continue improving the roster. Nothing more, nothing less.[/quote]

What Joe said.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1142346]Wasn't there a Carolina Panthers fan posting a while back? I would love to hear his take on the whole thing.[/quote]

Greetings, my friends! Sorry I've been away for a while, but I had quite the hangover from a painful Super Bowl. I'm getting my feet back under me now and realize I am behind on talking to my friends here about your new CB.

I quickly scanned this thread. I see these are your main questions: [I]Why did Carolina let him go? Is he a steal? Did we overpay?[/I] and [I]Is that Giants fan STILL here? [/I]

From what I've seen with Norman, your answer to all these questions is somewhat in the middle. I think you will not only be happy with Josh, but I think you'll be thrilled and get a fair amount of good years out of him... as long as you don't expect him to be perfect and the best CB in the league.


[B][I]First, why we let him go:[/I][/B]
We wanted to keep him. He is a really good corner! Unfortunately, he is in the wrong position in our system for big money. We are set up in such a way that our front 7 are priority. We have spent almost nothing on secondary, yet get incredible production from guys considered "has-beens" or that appeared to be liabilities on other teams. (We do the same on offense spending almost nothing on receivers, yet we make people like Tedd Ginn almost a household name.)

Josh earned a payday! It was a luxury for us to have that quality in our backfield when our money was spent elsewhere. Although we all knew Josh deserved elite money after last year, we also knew he likely was gone because our system is working and Gettleman can't and shouldn't screw up the system to keep one star (especially one in the wrong position).

For the record, Josh is a competitor, but I don't think he's actually a diva. He's made a bunch of "Batman" comments etc. that got attention, but it was generally in good fun. He's handled himself well in the locker room and in interviews. The whole OBJ thing was just stupid. It was great competition between two great players, both pushing the limits but only one lost composure. If not for that, you'd have never heard much of anything about the matchup. Josh will be a spark and a plus for your locker room.

[B][I]Next question: Is he a steal?[/I][/B]
I'd say yes. The downside is that you have to pay his value now as opposed to us paying for a rookie that turned elite. But still a steal. Not due to the price, but due to the fact that I think an elite corner can be a major part of your defense and you weren't going to get a Josh Norman quality CB in the draft or anywhere else in free agency. It would've been bad money for us to spend on him, but a good investment in your system. (Of course, you would know better than me if that is the case with your team's system.)

[B][I]Now, did you overpay?[/I][/B]
Maybe. It's hard to tell. There's no question he is a great CB. But the balanced view is that, again, our system has made receivers and secondary look much better than they really are. We have quite a list of mediocre DBs who have looked like stars here and then gotten a payday elsewhere that they didn't live up to.

But I have reason to believe that's not the case with Josh. Here's why: With those other DBs, we could watch games and tell that it was our system making them look better than they were. You couldn't tell that with Josh. In fact, he made a ton of plays that saved our butts in several games.

In fact, our front 7 actually had a challenging year. Kuechly was out several games, as was our best DE, Charles Johnson, and Thomas Davis, and we were still working on getting Greg Hardy's replacement, etc. Josh actually helped us get through those tough spots.

Still, bear in mind that he will occasionally get beat. For example, in that Giants game, OBJ beat him bad then dropped what should've been an easy TD right at the beginning of the day. (In fact, I think that drop played a major part in OBJ's breakdown) So Josh is not going to be Deion Sanders.


So I guess the bottom line is: If you think Josh is going to single-handedly elevate you to the next level, you may be disappointed. If you realize he's a really, really good corner that will make a lot more good plays than bad, you'll be very pleased with the results. I think he's not as good as some think, (because of how our system helps DBs) but he's definitely special and amazingly, I think he's still going to be getting even better in the next few years.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=coffee;1143584]Greetings, my friends! Sorry I've been away for a while, but I had quite the hangover from a painful Super Bowl. I'm getting my feet back under me now and realize I am behind on talking to my friends here about your new CB.

I quickly scanned this thread. I see these are your main questions: [I]Why did Carolina let him go? Is he a steal? Did we overpay?[/I] and [I]Is that Giants fan STILL here? [/I]

From what I've seen with Norman, your answer to all these questions is somewhat in the middle. I think you will not only be happy with Josh, but I think you'll be thrilled and get a fair amount of good years out of him... as long as you don't expect him to be perfect and the best CB in the league.


[B][I]First, why we let him go:[/I][/B]
We wanted to keep him. He is a really good corner! Unfortunately, he is in the wrong position in our system for big money. We are set up in such a way that our front 7 are priority. We have spent almost nothing on secondary, yet get incredible production from guys considered "has-beens" or that appeared to be liabilities on other teams. (We do the same on offense spending almost nothing on receivers, yet we make people like Tedd Ginn almost a household name.)

Josh earned a payday! It was a luxury for us to have that quality in our backfield when our money was spent elsewhere. Although we all knew Josh deserved elite money after last year, we also knew he likely was gone because our system is working and Gettleman can't and shouldn't screw up the system to keep one star (especially one in the wrong position).

For the record, Josh is a competitor, but I don't think he's actually a diva. He's made a bunch of "Batman" comments etc. that got attention, but it was generally in good fun. He's handled himself well in the locker room and in interviews. The whole OBJ thing was just stupid. It was great competition between two great players, both pushing the limits but only one lost composure. If not for that, you'd have never heard much of anything about the matchup. Josh will be a spark and a plus for your locker room.

[B][I]Next question: Is he a steal?[/I][/B]
I'd say yes. The downside is that you have to pay his value now as opposed to us paying for a rookie that turned elite. But still a steal. Not due to the price, but due to the fact that I think an elite corner can be a major part of your defense and you weren't going to get a Josh Norman quality CB in the draft or anywhere else in free agency. It would've been bad money for us to spend on him, but a good investment in your system. (Of course, you would know better than me if that is the case with your team's system.)

[B][I]Now, did you overpay?[/I][/B]
Maybe. It's hard to tell. There's no question he is a great CB. But the balanced view is that, again, our system has made receivers and secondary look much better than they really are. We have quite a list of mediocre DBs who have looked like stars here and then gotten a payday elsewhere that they didn't live up to.

But I have reason to believe that's not the case with Josh. Here's why: With those other DBs, we could watch games and tell that it was our system making them look better than they were. You couldn't tell that with Josh. In fact, he made a ton of plays that saved our butts in several games.

In fact, our front 7 actually had a challenging year. Kuechly was out several games, as was our best DE, Charles Johnson, and Thomas Davis, and we were still working on getting Greg Hardy's replacement, etc. Josh actually helped us get through those tough spots.

Still, bear in mind that he will occasionally get beat. For example, in that Giants game, OBJ beat him bad then dropped what should've been an easy TD right at the beginning of the day. (In fact, I think that drop played a major part in OBJ's breakdown) So Josh is not going to be Deion Sanders.


So I guess the bottom line is: If you think Josh is going to single-handedly elevate you to the next level, you may be disappointed. If you realize he's a really, really good corner that will make a lot more good plays than bad, you'll be very pleased with the results. I think he's not as good as some think, (because of how our system helps DBs) but he's definitely special and amazingly, I think he's still going to be getting even better in the next few years.[/quote]

good post...welcome back coffee

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

Yeah, valuable perspective, thank you.

There's a tendency for some to say 'well if the Panthers only wanted to pay $11M why should we pay $15M'? This post gets to simple differences in philosophy and fit. It's not that Norman isn't elite, the Panthers simply prefer to put their resources into the front seven.

Can't say that's a bad move, that's how the Giants won two Super Bowls. McLoughan wants to ramp up the pressure on the passer too, but he clearly believes in ball hawking secondaries, being involved with Seattle's Legion of Boom. It's OK to do things differently from other teams. Just because Carolina didn't pay him $15M doesn't mean he isn't worth it to us.

I'm excited to see how Galette and Norman impact the defense in tandem. Some serious intensity, ferocity and swagger with those guys. It will be welcome.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

I think it's important for some to recognize that Scot has a plan to build through the draft but that leaves a lot of mad money on the table when a guy like Josh Norman suddenly becomes available. They weren't out looking for a Josh Norman, he landed in their lap and they had the cash available so why not. Even if he doesn't excel in this defense, he has more upside than Culliver so it just makes sense to go ahead and do it, it doesn't get in the way of the long term plan so go for it..

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

Remember that Byrd guy from Buffalo. The sure fire top FA that NO got. Pretty sure that guy sucks now, just seems like high profile FAs never work out or rarely

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

[quote=Schneed10;1143589]I'm excited to see how Galette and Norman impact the defense in tandem. Some serious intensity, ferocity and swagger with those guys. It will be welcome.[/quote]

I cling to my belief that the better defenses have Pro Bowl caliber stars at each level. Now we have Josh. Can Galette be that good this season? Possibly. If so, then we're a star Interior DL and, possibly, a star ILB away from having the anchors at each level to make us a great defense. As I said, it's just my own belief based on many years as an NFL observer and fan.

Re: Josh Norman CB is a Redskin
 

The fact Carolina FO and to a bigger extent the owner, simply let Norman walk without compensation and under a very acceptable franchise tag amount for the 2016-17 is quite frankly one of the dumbest moves I can remember. This move by Carolina was Albert Haynesworth-stupid....or even worse, Matt Millen roster management-insane.