Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=Giantone;1243771]Yes you have yet your post's say other wise.[/quote]

Once again your reading comprehension sucks. Just because I can't stand most Democrats doesn't make me a Trump supporter.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[B]Growth[/B]
Greater productivity is one of the two main drivers of growth; the other is an increase in the number of U.S. workers. Both have slowed in the past decade.

Economic growth was 2.3 percent in 2019, matching the average pace since the Great Recession ended a decade ago in the first year of Barack Obama’s eight-year presidency.

During the 2016 campaign, Trump boasted that his tax cut plan would boost annual growth to 4 percent a year — a brisk pace not seen since the late 1990s.

Instead, Trump is one of two presidents, along with Obama, since World War II not to have presided over a year of at least 3 percent growth.

Few economists think the economy will hit that target this year.

----------
[B]Taxes[/B]
Most analysts do think Trump’s tax plan helped accelerate growth, just not the way he had promised.

“The Trump tax cuts were a sugar high that juiced the economy temporarily,” said Ryan Sweet, an economist at Moody’s Analytics.

It put more money in Americans’ pockets, boosting consumer spending.

The economy grew 2.9 percent in 2018, a healthy pace though the same as in 2015, the year before Trump’s election.

The administration had vowed, though, that the tax cuts would do more than just encourage Americans to shop more.
----------------
[B]Trade[/B]
Most economists partly blame the stall on Trump’s trade wars, particularly with China. The trade conflicts have left American companies much less certain about the economic outlook and reluctant to expand and invest. Business investment shrank in the final three quarters of last year.

Nor have Trump’s business tax cuts and deregulation made the economy more dynamic. The growth of new companies has remained anemic since the 2008 downturn.

Larger businesses continue to dominate many industries, from technology to retail to finance.

All this is occurring despite significant stimulus. Trump has assailed Fed Chairman Jerome Powell for not cutting rates more, though the Fed’s benchmark rate is now in a range of just 1.5 percent to 1.75 percent, a very low level historically and one that is considered stimulative.

Increased federal spending also has helped support the economy.

The Congressional Budget Office last week projected that the government’s deficit will top $1 trillion annually for the next decade.
------------
[B]Jobs[/B]
Trump recently has highlighted what he calls a “blue collar boom,” pointing to solid wage gains for lower-paid workers and healthy hiring in construction and manufacturing. But manufacturing jobs barely grew last year as factories hunkered down in the midst of the trade wars. Since Trump’s inauguration, manufacturing jobs have grown more slowly than employment overall has.

“Everyone says the economy is going great guns, but that is everything except agriculture and manufacturing,” Goss said.

What’s more, most campaign battleground states in the Midwest, such as Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin, have lost factory jobs in the past year.

[url]https://www.foxnews.com/politics/state-of-the-union-the-economy-under-president-trump-by-the-numbers[/url]


Dems need to hammer and keep hammering the economy and the deficit.
Trump cant lie his way around numbers, hell try but its easily provable.

Dont talk about borders, immigration, 2A, emissions .. talk and never stop talking about the economy and deficit.

Trumpers can scream but "lowest unemployment ever" ... but unemployment has been going down at a steady clip since Obama so really Trump was put on 3rd base for that. The farmer and manufacturing jobs havent been booming like Trump promised.

edit - this article is on the front page of Fox News but I bet $100 its off the first page by noon EST.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

Why are you bitchin about trump In this thread?

This is where we talk about Democratic debacle from last night? Any thoughts?

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=Chico23231;1244132]Why are you bitchin about trump In this thread?

This is where we talk about Democratic debacle from last night? Any thoughts?[/quote]

Thread title is "Democratic Primary Push for White House".

Post is about what I think the Dems should do to "push" for the White House with cited information.

Economy is what should kill Trump .. but only if the Dems tunnel vision on that issue and dont get sucked into cultural differences like 2A, religion, abortion, immigration .. basically everything but the economy.

-------------

An app didnt work. Okay, not a great look. But I have no interest in engaging in hyperbole like this is "proof the Dems cant be trusted with anything" talk bc that is nonsense and hypocritical to have such a impossible standard for Dems but then dont apply that same impossible standard to trump or Rs. But that is our political landscape. People are entenched.

An app didnt work = cant trust these people with our lives .... if thats the basis of what you want to discuss ... lol .. have fun man ... seems like extreme partisan drivel to me.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=SunnySide;1244133]Thread title is "Democratic Primary Push for White House".

Post is about what I think the Dems should do to "push" for the White House with cited information.

Economy is what should kill Trump .. but only if the Dems tunnel vision on that issue and dont get sucked into cultural differences like 2A, religion, abortion, immigration .. basically everything but the economy.

-------------

An app didnt work. Okay, not a great look. But I have no interest in engaging in hyperbole like this is "proof the Dems cant be trusted with anything" talk bc that is nonsense and hypocritical to have such a impossible standard for Dems but then dont apply that same impossible standard to trump or Rs. But that is our political landscape. People are entenched.

An app didnt work = cant trust these people with our lives .... if thats the basis of what you want to discuss ... lol .. have fun man ... seems like extreme partisan drivel to me.[/quote]

Not only didn't it work but it also showed it was not planned out accordingly ie there was insufficient testing and training...Dem responsibility...and there was not an plan if the app failed...DNC responsibility

Its incompetence...

But the truly entertaining portion are the candidates responses...some even giving victory speeches. And then the media and the conspiracy theories...yall own that block now too the Dems and Alex Jones. LOL match made in heaven.

Yeah, you can complain about the boomin economy over in the anti trump threads...

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=SunnySide;1244127][B]Growth[/B]
Greater productivity is one of the two main drivers of growth; the other is an increase in the number of U.S. workers. Both have slowed in the past decade.

Economic growth was 2.3 percent in 2019, matching the average pace since the Great Recession ended a decade ago in the first year of Barack Obama’s eight-year presidency.

During the 2016 campaign, Trump boasted that his tax cut plan would boost annual growth to 4 percent a year — a brisk pace not seen since the late 1990s.

Instead, Trump is one of two presidents, along with Obama, since World War II not to have presided over a year of at least 3 percent growth.

Few economists think the economy will hit that target this year.

----------
[B]Taxes[/B]
Most analysts do think Trump’s tax plan helped accelerate growth, just not the way he had promised.

“The Trump tax cuts were a sugar high that juiced the economy temporarily,” said Ryan Sweet, an economist at Moody’s Analytics.

It put more money in Americans’ pockets, boosting consumer spending.

The economy grew 2.9 percent in 2018, a healthy pace though the same as in 2015, the year before Trump’s election.

The administration had vowed, though, that the tax cuts would do more than just encourage Americans to shop more.
----------------
[B]Trade[/B]
Most economists partly blame the stall on Trump’s trade wars, particularly with China. The trade conflicts have left American companies much less certain about the economic outlook and reluctant to expand and invest. Business investment shrank in the final three quarters of last year.

Nor have Trump’s business tax cuts and deregulation made the economy more dynamic. The growth of new companies has remained anemic since the 2008 downturn.

Larger businesses continue to dominate many industries, from technology to retail to finance.

All this is occurring despite significant stimulus. Trump has assailed Fed Chairman Jerome Powell for not cutting rates more, though the Fed’s benchmark rate is now in a range of just 1.5 percent to 1.75 percent, a very low level historically and one that is considered stimulative.

Increased federal spending also has helped support the economy.

The Congressional Budget Office last week projected that the government’s deficit will top $1 trillion annually for the next decade.
------------
[B]Jobs[/B]
Trump recently has highlighted what he calls a “blue collar boom,” pointing to solid wage gains for lower-paid workers and healthy hiring in construction and manufacturing. But manufacturing jobs barely grew last year as factories hunkered down in the midst of the trade wars. Since Trump’s inauguration, manufacturing jobs have grown more slowly than employment overall has.

“Everyone says the economy is going great guns, but that is everything except agriculture and manufacturing,” Goss said.

What’s more, most campaign battleground states in the Midwest, such as Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin, have lost factory jobs in the past year.

[url]https://www.foxnews.com/politics/state-of-the-union-the-economy-under-president-trump-by-the-numbers[/url]


Dems need to hammer and keep hammering the economy and the deficit.
Trump cant lie his way around numbers, hell try but its easily provable.

Dont talk about borders, immigration, 2A, emissions .. talk and never stop talking about the economy and deficit.

Trumpers can scream but "lowest unemployment ever" ... but unemployment has been going down at a steady clip since Obama so really Trump was put on 3rd base for that. The farmer and manufacturing jobs havent been booming like Trump promised.

edit - this article is on the front page of Fox News but I bet $100 its off the first page by noon EST.[/quote]

Back to the Dems using the economy to win back the WH. Things like religion, abortion, 2A etc I dont think are platforms to run on bc people just dont agree and arent going to agree any time soon. I would almost completely not talk about those divisive issue.

Talk economy bc those arent really subjective. There are hard numbers and facts to stick to. People want to be presented with bullet point, easy to understand statements, like:

- 1 trillion dollar deficit
[url]https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-budget-deficit-3305783[/url]

- Farmer jobs forecasted to go down by 1%
[url]https://www.bls.gov/ooh/management/farmers-ranchers-and-other-agricultural-managers.htm[/url]

- 2.1 GDP in 2019 Q4
[url]https://www.bea.gov/news/glance[/url]

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=Chico23231;1244134]
Yeah, you can complain about the boomin economy over in the anti trump threads...[/quote]

Ever since the recent recession and the employer health care mandate employment numbers really don't mean the same. During the great recession there was the invention of the 32 hour work week instead of laying off 20% of standard 40 hour a week employees. Large companies in manufacturing did this and that was previously unheard of. That trend then continued by companies trying to avoid the employer health care mandate.

Also it seems another recent trend is giving employees in entry level jobs very few hours, this is among employees willing to work full time. A couple years ago my girlfriend's early 20's son had 3 jobs and they didn't even combine for 40 hours a week. He was working one day a week at Game Stop, delivering pizzas at one place and making them at a next. So any one of those jobs would qualify him as employed. He finally got a job working in an Amazon warehouse, not until he got a promotion to a shift lead did they give him full time hours and that took a couple years.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

My two favorite conspiracy theories being peddled by the left about Iowa:

1. Pete Buttigieg funded the Iowa app therefore undermining the results

2 Russia bots are responsible for the negative response across social media of the Iowa debacle

Lol...Russia again!

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

Chico .. thank you for proving my point.

Trump voters cant handle basic facts.

As a result, they will turn towards juvenile disruptive behavior and strawman detours from actual adult conversation, closely mirroring Donald Trump's own personality (and insecurities).

Dems dont let Trump drag the 2020 election into a 'who can be the biggest asshole' contest, bc Trump will win every time.

Stick to facts. And easy to understand facts at that.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=SunnySide;1244140]Chico .. thank you for proving my point.

Trump voters cant handle basic facts.

As a result, they will turn towards juvenile disruptive behavior and strawman detours from actual adult conversation, closely mirroring Donald Trump's own personality (and insecurities).

Dems dont let Trump drag the 2020 election into a 'who can be the biggest asshole' contest, bc Trump will win every time.

Stick to facts. And easy to understand facts at that.[/quote]

Facts are, this debacle is reflection of the DNC and their organization of a functioning political body. It seeps into their message...

Also the turnout, wow, big disappointment in the enthusiasm among the dems. Turnout was garbage for Iowa.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[QUOTE=SunnySide;1244140]Chico .. thank you for proving my point.



Trump voters cant handle basic facts.



As a result, they will turn towards juvenile disruptive behavior and strawman detours from actual adult conversation, closely mirroring Donald Trump's own personality (and insecurities).



Dems dont let Trump drag the 2020 election into a 'who can be the biggest asshole' contest, bc Trump will win every time.



Stick to facts. And easy to understand facts at that.[/QUOTE]Honestly, if the Democrats try to run on the economy they will lose big. Not that the economy is or isnt booming, but polls across the board show Trump has his strongest favorability polls on the economy. And he will tout the numbers loud like you will see tonight.

Healthcare remains the Democrats strongest talking point, that and the Supreme Court. The chances of RBG making it through 4 more years of Trump is slim.

But discounting the Iowa debacle is a mistake, if Bernie voters geel the DNC is rigging the primary again you vould see an implosion of the liberal base.

A Bernie/AOC Independent ticket would demolish any Democratic candidate like Biden or Bloomberg.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

To emphasize my point on the evonomy, Gallup's latest poll has a +28 margin for Trump. If Trump wss not such a despicable character his re-election would be a shoe in. But 50 percent of America HATES him. A solid 35% truly fears him and his policies. And his foreign policy runs along lines with his dislike quotient

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200204/b1f3f422f23afac30ab99fbf5fa3c244.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200204/da66a74debd5c3c9d62166ce4305ee4c.jpg[/IMG]

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=Chico23231;1244132]Why are you bitchin about trump In this thread?

This is where we talk about Democratic debacle from last night? Any thoughts?[/quote]

Not sure how it wasn’t vetted more closely leading up to the caucus talk about a blown opportunity and still no word? but the caucus form of voting has now had problems in the last 3 presidential primaries personally I think that forum needs to go

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

Does he really want to make it about the economy?

Gross Domestic Product for 2019 was 2.3%. That means economic growth slowed from the prior year. That’s nothing to brag about. The average growth rate since 1947 has been 3.2%. The best GDP growth of the last 15 years was in 2014...an Obama year. He promised 4%-6% GDP growth would pay for his tax cuts...it hasn't happened.

From 2009 to January 2017, Obama’s last month in office, jobs averaged 201,600 per month. Trump, from February 2017 to the end of 2019, averaged just 191,100. That’s 5% less per month.

It's true that wages have increased. But only in states and cities that increased in the minimum wage. Trump and the GOP at large opposed those increases.

^ democratic poster on fox news

Your gibberish doesn't mean a thing.
It's about how consumers view thing.
Consumer Sentiment is at an ALL TIME HIGH!

^ a republican posters reply

CRed - I think you’re right to a degree. What I would like to see is the dems hammering the bullet points to change the public perception.

And your comments about an independent sanders ticket .. or even disenfranchised sanders fans if he doesn’t get it ... well that would be the end of the dems for 2020 and the worst possible scenario for dems. Scaring the crap out of me

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1244151]Not sure how it wasn’t vetted more closely leading up to the caucus talk about a blown opportunity and still no word? but the caucus form of voting has now had problems in the last 3 presidential primaries personally I think that forum needs to go[/quote]

Yeah I agree. I don’t fully understand the caucus process but it seems antiquated. In 2012, it took republicans weeks to announce their caucus results

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

Now they release “half” the results way to add to the confusion

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=sunnyside;1244127][b]growth[/b]
greater productivity is one of the two main drivers of growth; the other is an increase in the number of u.s. Workers. Both have slowed in the past decade.

Economic growth was 2.3 percent in 2019, matching the average pace since the great recession ended a decade ago in the first year of barack obama’s eight-year presidency.

During the 2016 campaign, trump boasted that his tax cut plan would boost annual growth to 4 percent a year — a brisk pace not seen since the late 1990s.

Instead, trump is one of two presidents, along with obama, since world war ii not to have presided over a year of at least 3 percent growth.

Few economists think the economy will hit that target this year.

----------
[b]taxes[/b]
most analysts do think trump’s tax plan helped accelerate growth, just not the way he had promised.

“the trump tax cuts were a sugar high that juiced the economy temporarily,” said ryan sweet, an economist at moody’s analytics.

It put more money in americans’ pockets, boosting consumer spending.

The economy grew 2.9 percent in 2018, a healthy pace though the same as in 2015, the year before trump’s election.

The administration had vowed, though, that the tax cuts would do more than just encourage americans to shop more.
----------------
[b]trade[/b]
most economists partly blame the stall on trump’s trade wars, particularly with china. The trade conflicts have left american companies much less certain about the economic outlook and reluctant to expand and invest. Business investment shrank in the final three quarters of last year.

Nor have trump’s business tax cuts and deregulation made the economy more dynamic. The growth of new companies has remained anemic since the 2008 downturn.

Larger businesses continue to dominate many industries, from technology to retail to finance.

All this is occurring despite significant stimulus. Trump has assailed fed chairman jerome powell for not cutting rates more, though the fed’s benchmark rate is now in a range of just 1.5 percent to 1.75 percent, a very low level historically and one that is considered stimulative.

Increased federal spending also has helped support the economy.

The congressional budget office last week projected that the government’s deficit will top $1 trillion annually for the next decade.
------------
[b]jobs[/b]
trump recently has highlighted what he calls a “blue collar boom,” pointing to solid wage gains for lower-paid workers and healthy hiring in construction and manufacturing. But manufacturing jobs barely grew last year as factories hunkered down in the midst of the trade wars. Since trump’s inauguration, manufacturing jobs have grown more slowly than employment overall has.

“everyone says the economy is going great guns, but that is everything except agriculture and manufacturing,” goss said.

What’s more, most campaign battleground states in the midwest, such as michigan, pennsylvania, ohio and wisconsin, have lost factory jobs in the past year.

[url]https://www.foxnews.com/politics/state-of-the-union-the-economy-under-president-trump-by-the-numbers[/url]


dems need to hammer and keep hammering the economy and the deficit.
Trump cant lie his way around numbers, hell try but its easily provable.

Dont talk about borders, immigration, 2a, emissions .. Talk and never stop talking about the economy and deficit.

Trumpers can scream but "lowest unemployment ever" ... But unemployment has been going down at a steady clip since obama so really trump was put on 3rd base for that. The farmer and manufacturing jobs havent been booming like trump promised.

Edit - this article is on the front page of fox news but i bet $100 its off the first page by noon est.[/quote]

lol................

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1244148]

A Bernie/AOC Independent ticket would demolish any Democratic candidate like Biden or Bloomberg.
[/quote]

I believe that is a moot point. You have to be 35 to be president of the USA, she is only 30, so that has to disqualify her as a VP candidate, I would think. Correct me if I am wrong.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1244155]Now they release “half” the results way to add to the confusion[/quote]

Can u believe Pete is winning? I was told by Bernie bros...this could be a win by 10%.

Not a good start for Biden.

I’m a Klobuchar fan...I like Gabbard too, mostly because she a spitfire smoke show and she sued Hillary.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

Biden is the only democrat that I will vote for against Trump. If the nomination goes to anyone but him, Will Seemore will get my vote this year for president of the USA as he did last election. Politics in this country is in a sad state. I am sick of all the negativity. A good example is the Democrat's so called firebrand of AOC, most of the time all she is doing is complaining and pointing fingers while providing zero proposed solutions for the problems. She also doesn't seem very bright or informed, she is just noisy.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1244159]I believe that is a moot point. You have to be 35 to be president of the USA, she is only 30, so that has to disqualify her as a VP candidate, I would think. Correct me if I am wrong.[/QUOTE]I didn't know she is only 30

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Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=Chico23231;1244162]Can u believe Pete is winning? I was told by Bernie bros...this could be a win by 10%.

Not a good start for Biden.

I’m a Klobuchar fan...I like Gabbard too, mostly because she a spitfire smoke show and she sued Hillary.[/quote]

I actually can based on what I was hearing. Very pragmatic probably the most moderate/conservative of all candidates. Former military guy. Not sure if America will elect a gay man. I really love me some Gabbard, military vet, reaches across the aisle, progressive, plus she values sustainability which priority one for me got to stop passing the buck to the next generation part of the reason we are in this deficit mess.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

yes!!! been waiting for it.

NBC news has now linked Trump to the Iowa caucus debacle...

[url]https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/clog-lines-iowa-caucus-hotline-posted-online-encouragement-disrupt-results-n1131521[/url]


LOL, and here comes Shelia!

Democratic Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas suggested Wednesday that the Russians were behind the vote-reporting app crashing during Monday’s Iowa Democratic caucuses.

[url]https://thefederalist.com/2020/02/06/democrat-congresswoman-blames-iowa-caucus-disaster-on-russia/[/url]

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

Lol the Iowa conspiracy theorist out in full force today. What a complete shit show that keeps getting better.

[url]https://mobile.twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/status/1225661051506585602[/url]

Rachel Maddow pushing conspiracy theory and disinformation that 4chan to blame...amazing.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

So you dont think 4chan didnt repeatedly post the DNC number and encourage members to call in?

You dont think people called in to clog the lines?

Are you saying the above 2 things didnt happen? We could argue that DNC should have been prepared, tactics like that are par for the course nowadays etc ... but are you saying these 2 things above did not happen and is being completely made up?

Its not a big deal to me, we could argue about the scale or effectiveness .. but are you saying this is all completely made up? That 4cahn didnt post the number repeatedly, didnt encourage people to call in and that no one called in to clog the lines?

Just trying to see where the line is at. I personally dont think it is a big deal and should be expected nowadays. But im sure 4chan did do it and im sure its members did call in.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=SunnySide;1244284]So you dont think 4chan didnt repeatedly post the DNC number and encourage members to call in?

You dont think people called in to clog the lines?

Are you saying the above 2 things didnt happen? We could argue that DNC should have been prepared, tactics like that are par for the course nowadays etc ... but are you saying these 2 things above did not happen and is being completely made up?

Its not a big deal to me, we could argue about the scale or effectiveness .. but are you saying this is all completely made up? That 4cahn didnt post the number repeatedly, didnt encourage people to call in and that no one called in to clog the lines?

Just trying to see where the line is at. I personally dont think it is a big deal and should be expected nowadays. But im sure 4chan did do it and im sure its members did call in.[/quote]

First and foremost from an operations perspective you better expect high volume if there is a major issue like a tech...and they ran into it. So you didn't inspect therefore you failed. So you weren't prepared "in case of an emergency"...contingency plan? business continuity? Laughable and 1000% unacceptable from the DNC.

Second, this conspiracy theory of clogged lines was reported with no facts. No evidence of outside interference. Per the Bloomberg fake news "It is unclear how many prank calls the hotline received or how much they contributed to the delays". In others word, zero facts or evidence to base a report on.

3rd, the phone number could be found on google. So its public knowledge and there wasn't a nefarious act which sought to uncover the number for the purpose of sabotage.

4th, From people investigate what amounts to a thread on a message board, people looking stated out of the 2000 post thread, there were ONLY 3 post which made reference to prank this number.


To put this all on trump and trump supporters...its laughable, conspiracy theory bullshit. DNC fuck this up from day 1

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=Chico23231;1244286]First and foremost from an operations perspective you better expect high volume if there is a major issue like a tech...and they ran into it. So you didn't inspect therefore you failed. So you weren't prepared "in case of an emergency"...contingency plan? business continuity? Laughable and 1000% unacceptable from the DNC.

Second, this conspiracy theory of clogged lines was reported with no facts. No evidence of outside interference. Per the Bloomberg fake news "It is unclear how many prank calls the hotline received or how much they contributed to the delays". In others word, zero facts or evidence to base a report on.

3rd, the phone number could be found on google. So its public knowledge and there wasn't a nefarious act which sought to uncover the number for the purpose of sabotage.

4th, From people investigate what amounts to a thread on a message board, people looking stated out of the 2000 post thread, there were ONLY 3 post which made reference to prank this number.


To put this all on trump and trump supporters...its laughable, conspiracy theory bullshit. DNC fuck this up from day 1[/quote]

I agree, the number was easily found on google, I agree that there should be back up plans to the back up plans.

Sounds like we also agree - 4chan did post the number and urge people to clog the lines, people did call with the intent of clogging the lines.

Up for debate is how many people actually called and what, if any, effect it had on the lines. So its not a "conspiracy theory" as we agree it happened but the debate is how much of an impact, if any, it had.

Bridging the divide .. cheers.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

Lol yeah agreeing the phone number was posted on 4chan is not the same as saying folks clogged up phones line which is the conspiracy theory claim. Pushing a false narrative is a specialty by the left. Next I’m sure Susan Rice will be pushed out onto the Sunday news shows ala Benghazi event to tell the American public this happened because of a YouTube video.

Maybe you also agree with dem congresswoman Sheila Jackson that the Russians were behind the app going down.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=Chico23231;1244295]Lol yeah agreeing the phone number was posted on 4chan is not the same as saying folks clogged up phones line which is the conspiracy theory claim. Pushing a false narrative is a specialty by the left. Next I’m sure Susan Rice will be pushed out onto the Sunday news shows ala Benghazi event to tell the American public this happened because of a YouTube video.

Maybe you also agree with dem congresswoman Sheila Jackson that the Russians were behind the app going down.[/quote]

ya see man .. I was trying to find the small things we could at least agree on and then perhaps work our way from there. Honestly, I dont know what "benghazi" has to do with this.

We agree 4chan did it.

We agree we dont know the extent of it.

We agree the DNC should have been better prepared.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=SunnySide;1244296]ya see man .. I was trying to find the small things we could at least agree on and then perhaps work our way from there. Honestly, I dont know what "benghazi" has to do with this.

We agree 4chan did it.

We agree we dont know the extent of it.

We agree the DNC should have been better prepared.[/quote]

It really is hard to find those small points of agreement. I didn't look into any of it, so I will happily agree and move on.

I am far more interested to see how the Democratic Party resolves the moderate vs socialist split. Seems like a 3 way race at this point, Socialist Bernie vs Pete the Moderate vs Bloomberg the rich. I think Pete has the best chance to win the general election, but will the whole party back him.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1244300]It really is hard to find those small points of agreement. I didn't look into any of it, so I will happily agree and move on.

I am far more interested to see how the Democratic Party resolves the moderate vs socialist split. Seems like a 3 way race at this point, Socialist Bernie vs Pete the Moderate vs Bloomberg the rich. I think Pete has the best chance to win the general election, but will the whole party back him.[/quote]

As a moderate (doesnt everyone consider themselves a moderate? lol) .. it worries me to see the Democratic party move left. But are we?

AOC only represents a small pocket of NYC yet it seems she is "speaking for all liberals and democrats", when in fact she is not. She is an extreme brand. I do think AOC would vote for open borders and that idea is completely nuts to me. But I think that idea is completely nuts to 80% of the democratic party.I wish someone, Biden or Warren or Bloomberg would come out and say "open borders is not a realistic option".
-----

Bernie Sanders from his website:

[B]Guarantee tuition and debt-free public colleges[/B], universities, HBCUs, Minority Serving Institutions and trade-schools to all.
Cancel all student loan debt for the some 45 million Americans who owe about $1.6 trillion and place a cap on student loan interest rates going forward at 1.88 percent.
[B] Invest $1.3 billion every year in private, non-profit historically black[/B] colleges and universities and minority-serving institutions
End equity gaps in higher education attainment. And ensure students are able to cover non-tuition costs of attending school by: expanding Pell Grants to cover non-tuition and fee costs, tripling funding for the Work-Study Program, and more.

^^ does this mean free college? Would students have to do well in school and placement tests first? Our taxes would certainly go up. The idea that a kid who didnt give a crap about school, just barely graduated would then be offered free college is crazy to me.

^^ 1.3B a year to HBCUs ... I think we can steer some money through grants or other programs but to give free money to schools seems non-productive.

End the housing crisis by investing $2.5 trillion to build nearly 10 million permanently affordable housing units.
Protect tenants by implementing a national rent control standard, a “just-cause” requirement for evictions, and ensuring the right to counsel in housing disputes.
[B]Make rent affordable by making Section 8 vouchers available to all eligible families without a waitlist [/B]and strengthening the Fair Housing Act.
Combat gentrification, exclusionary zoning, segregation, and speculation.
End homelessness and ensure fair housing for all
Revitalize public housing by investing $70 billion to repair, decarbonize, and build new public housing.

^^ the waitlist in MD is 8 years or so, they arent even letting people on the list to my understanding ... if you make section 8 avail for all, immediately ... that number sounds astronomical to me.

Institute a moratorium on deportations until a thorough audit of past practices and policies is complete.
Reinstate and expand DACA and develop a humane policy for those seeking asylum.
Completely reshape and reform our immigration enforcement system, including breaking up ICE and CBP and redistributing their functions to their proper authorities.
Dismantle cruel and inhumane deportation programs and detention centers and reunite families who have been separated.
Live up to our ideals as a nation and welcome refugees and those seeking asylum, including those displaced by climate change.

^^ this is basically open borders to me. Anyone can walk in, say "asylum" and we accept them? Break up ICE? Suspend all deportations?



Create a Medicare for All, single-payer, national health insurance program to provide everyone in America with comprehensive health care coverage, free at the point of service.
No networks, no premiums, no deductibles, no copays, no surprise bills.
Medicare coverage will be expanded and improved to include: include dental, hearing, vision, and home- and community-based long-term care, in-patient and out-patient services, mental health and substance abuse treatment, reproductive and maternity care, prescription drugs, and more.
Stop the pharmaceutical industry from ripping off the American people by making sure that no one in America pays over $200 a year for the medicine they need by capping what Americans pay for prescription drugs under Medicare for All.

^^healthcare is still crazy expensive. I have a 4k deductible so basically I am paying my health ins costs every year. I guess if I have surgery and it is not deemed elective, ins will kick in ... one day.

I dont know what to do about health ins. I work hard, went through college and grad school and make good money ... so now my kid will get the same treatment, sitting in the same waiting room as a kid whose parents dont work and just sit around smoking cigarettes?

I imagine the wait to get out-patient appointments will be months and people will just walk into hospitals making them inpatient centers.
[url]https://berniesanders.com/issues/[/url]
----------------------

Benrie is crazy to me and id not vote vs voting for him. The other Dems Id vote for.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

To hell with Bernie and Biden, I'd go Bloomberg

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=Giantone;1244304]To hell with Bernie and Biden, I'd go Bloomberg[/quote]

I can't see Bernie supporters voting for Bloomberg. Basically he is trying to buy the Democratic nomination (in the eyes of Bernie supporters)

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

I think Biden is the only Democrat that stands a chance of beating Trump. If he wins the nomination I will probably vote for him and I vote Republican 99% of the time. If anyone else wins the Democratic nomination I will write in Will Seemore again. I have always thought 3rd party candidates were freaking insane.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

So I’m a big JAMES Carville fan (saw him speak, met him, etc)....his positions, ability to see the issues and read the voter are all Jedi-like. I disagree with him on things, but he’s awesome.

So he gave an interview to Vox (certified garbage site) and nailed it once again. It’s a must read for anyone following politics, right or left. Carville is brilliant and 1000% right.

[url]https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/7/21123518/trump-2020-election-democratic-party-james-carville[/url]

We’re losing our damn minds”: James Carville unloads on the Democratic Party

Favorite parts:

Can I say one more thing about the cultural disconnect?

Sean Illing
Sure.

James Carville
I want to give you an example of the problem here. A few weeks ago, Binyamin Appelbaum, an economics writer for the New York Times, posted a snarky tweet about how LSU canceled classes for the National Championship game. And then he said, do the “Warren/Sanders free public college proposals include LSU, or would it only apply to actual schools?”

You know how fucking patronizing that is to people in the South or in the middle of the country? First, LSU has an unusually high graduation rate, but that’s not the point. [B]It’s the goddamn smugness. This is from a guy who lives in New York and serves on the Times editorial board and there’s not a single person he knows that doesn’t pat him on the back for that kind of tweet. He’s so fucking smart.

Appelbaum doesn’t speak for the Democratic Party, but he does represent the urbanist mindset. We can’t win the Senate by looking down at people. [/B]The [B]Democratic Party has to drive a narrative that doesn’t give off vapors that we’re smarter than everyone or culturally arrogant.[/B]


This ^ is brilliant. this is where the Democratic Party lost a lot of folks, including me

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1244305]I can't see Bernie supporters voting for Bloomberg. Basically he is trying to buy the Democratic nomination (in the eyes of Bernie supporters)[/quote]

.........it worked for trump,............well that and putin.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1244306]I think Biden is the only Democrat that stands a chance of beating Trump. If he wins the nomination I will probably vote for him and I vote Republican 99% of the time. If anyone else wins the Democratic nomination I will write in Will Seemore again. I have always thought 3rd party candidates were freaking insane.[/quote]

Bidens toast.Warren and Bloomburg can both beat trump .Now if they were smart they would team up.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

I don't see Trump losing to any of these candidates. But I never thought that Obama or Trump would ever be president either, so I'm no Vegas oddsmaker.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1244305]I can't see Bernie supporters voting for Bloomberg. Basically he is trying to buy the Democratic nomination (in the eyes of Bernie supporters)[/quote]

Is he not? What is his mission statement other than "I am a successful businessman ala Trump, but I'm not Trump." He's just throwing money at it that he can afford to lose, what solutions is he presenting to any of the problems facing real Americans today?

Also Sunny, I think you're doing a good job trying to reach across the aisle and bridge the gap between us and Chico/Cred, but Chico has a real hard-on for just pointing out media hypocrisy and inaccuracy instead of realizing both sides do that nowadays, both sides are going to keep churning out content anywhere from factual (Reuters/AP in my book) to cherry-picking/media spin (Breitbart/HuffPo). As long as people keep clicking, that's the goal. There's always going to be someone trying to pin blame or use a situation to promote a theory without evidence, and it's never going to change if you keep clicking/posting/sharing.

For the most part I find your positions reasonable, and I agree with most of them. I think we could do a way better job of healthcare in this country, in its' current form it places profit for the medical insurance/tech/supplier industries over human life. I think considering we have seen systems implemented in other first world countries it's reasonable to think we could implement a similar system here, one that doesn't bankrupt people who need major life-saving surgeries or raise the price of insulin/meds 5000% out of pure greed. But it would require winners and losers. Winners would be American citizens (note I didn't say illegals) for not paying [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/27/health/exploring-salines-secret-costs.html"]$100 for a bag of saline solution[/URL] in a hospital, or [URL="https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/ct-hlth-illinois-snakebite-venom-treatment-20190502-story.html"]140 grand for a snakebite needing anti-venom[/URL]. Losers will be medical insurance for not making profits off healthy Americans who never visit the hospital, or pharma companies not jacking up the price of a life-saving medication 5000%.

I disagree with anyone who wants open borders. But I think families and parents who want to come to America to work hard to provide for their families shouldn't have to wait 10 years to get in. I'm fine taking that wall money and spending it on border agents or technology that makes their jobs easier, but implying it's going to do anything other than make it harder for illegal immigrants to cross is insane. It's not going to slow down Americans' insane appetite for illegal drugs. It's just going to make people pay more money to ride in the trunk of a car at a border crossing, or cross on a boat on the coast at the middle of the night, or pay extra to use a cartel tunnel underneath the border. It will do literally nothing to stop people from overstaying their visa/etc. which is approximately 25% of all illegal immigrants. And unless they build a wall of solid concrete there's a good chance people in Mexico are just going to try and cut through it anyways. If Trump didn't insist on making this a political thing, and instead said "I want to increase funding to the Border Patrol so they can decide the most important areas to build a wall" it would be a lot easier to support.

The housing thing I'm not smart enough to understand a solution to, but I feel like as long as real estate is prioritized as a fantastic money-making opportunity instead of "low-income people need a place to live too" it will always be a problem.

I like Bernie because I think even though solving healthcare is a difficult problem, it's one that needs to be addressed with major changes. I don't care about free public colleges, and I disagree with open borders. The difference is with Trump he will stop at nothing to enact his policies, whether it means pulling money out of anything to build a border wall, or doing it solely via Executive Order instead of doing the proper method through Congress. If Bernie said his main goal is abolishing ICE/CBP but the rest of the Dems totally disagreed with it (obv. you have your AOC's who would support it) it would never happen.

Anyways I think it's a moot point as the mainstream Dems don't support Bernie, and there isn't a single conservative (moderate or extreme) that supports his ideas either. I think the DNC will do anything to make sure he doesn't win the nomination too. And I don't necessarily disagree with that either, our best chance at winning is supporting a candidate that will appeal to moderates who voted for Trump in 2016. And that's not Bernie.

Biden I don't like because he seems out of touch with young people when he talks shit about weed and video games. He needs to realize alienating young people is not the best way to mobilize them to vote for you.

Buttigieg I know nothing about his policy ideas, only that he's gay and was the former mayor of South Bend. He's never going to convince your average straight white male conservative to vote for him though. I think if he won the nomination anti-LGBTQ sentiment would rise from the religious majority on the right.

Warren I don't think is strong enough to stand up to the Trump attacks. We need a candidate who is not going to let the Trump attacks distract from trying to win over swing voters.

I'm not sure who's going to win the nomination, but I feel like it's Biden as he represents the biggest name and the DNC likes him. If he prioritizes responding to Trump attacks over trying to win swing voters he's gonna lose though. One of the key mistakes Hill-dawg made was [URL="https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-out-campaigned-clinton-50-percent-key-battlegrounds-final-100-n683116"]not campaigning enough[/URL] in swing states in 2016.

Re: Democratic Primary Push for White House
 

[quote=mooby;1244311]
Buttigieg I know nothing about his policy ideas, only that he's gay and was the former mayor of South Bend. He's never going to convince your average straight white male conservative to vote for him though.[/quote]

I love how liberals single out white people and rip on them. Isn't that being racist? I had supervisory and training roles in some pretty large companies before becoming self employed in very diverse work forces. As a whole the minority males spewed a lot more venomous thoughts toward gay men than the white guys did. The biggest offenders were from our southern neighbors. I would love to see an honest poll taken on this subject. I would bet my right arm your average straight white male conservative doesn't discriminate against gay men anymore than Democrat voting males that migrated from Mexico.

My aunt is one of the few liberals I can discuss politics with. I always have fun when I ask her what Uncle Jorge (Mexican born) thinks of jotos (Spanish term for gay men) she always tells me she has learned to tune him out when he talks about them. She said straight alpha type males from Mexico will never accept gay men and nothing will change that.