Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

Case is good enough with a good supporting cast around him to win 10 games ..that means time to throw .. receivers who can get open and a running game..the D will keep us in games !! We don’t need stupid fumbles and bad special teams play .. I’m not worried about Case it’s all the other stuff that worries me.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

Whatever you guys are seeing with the O I am not drinking the koolaid yet. We are still relying on reed, the wr corp is suspect, I have hopes for Guice but want to see him actually play before I get excited and LT is a bit of a concern. D might be good but will get worn down if we see the anything close to last year and I am pretty sure we aren't starting 6-3. I hope I am wrong.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1227312][B]FYI, Keenum started 16 last year w/ a top defense and won 6. [/B]

I just don't understand playing a career journeymen cause he might make less mistakes. That he can manage the game to maybe keep us competitive. Screw that. He also can't make throws like Haskins made to Davis. Instant offense.

If Gruden was truly a good coach he could craft a game plan where he'd put in plays that Haskins is comfortable with. He'd take 15 plays or so right out of Ohio State's playbook. He'd cut down his plays and use basic formations. Throw more on first down where he can max protect. If he did these things then I see no reason why you don't start the rookie. If he struggles then put in Case.[/quote]

Denver's defense was middle of the pack last year at best...They aren't the SB defense everyone thinks they still are. Washington's D will likely be much better than that this year, and the offense looks to have more weapons than Denver did last year. Could be good if Keenum can get a grasp of the playbook...this team 'could' really take off.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1227300]Jay's got to play for his job, so he has every incentive to play the guy who is ready now. He knows what Keenum is - he knows he's got the lowest risk of turning the ball over, which will work best with his defense & run game oriented team.

The only way starting Haskins becomes a consideration for Jay is if the front office makes him. They could easily say hey we don't think we're going to be real good anyway and force him to start the rookie.

But then you introduce the possibility of Jay throwing up his hands and the locker room disengaging, and none of that is good.

Starting Keenum makes the most sense if you're trying to win games this year. And I'd argue that if you want to build a culture that's worth a crap, you need to try to win every year, no matter what. [B]Play the best guy. Haskins will be the best guy some day, but he's not now.[/B][/quote]

This has been my argument the whole time. This is a pro sport, may the best man win. Easiest way to lose a lockerroom is by using any other metric besides going with the guy that deserves it.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1227338]This has been my argument the whole time. This is a pro sport, may the best man win. [B]Easiest way to lose a lockerroom is by using any other metric besides going with the guy that deserves it[/B].[/quote]

I've been saying too.

Any other position we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Put the guy that [U][I]won the job[/I][/U] out there. These guys are putting their bodies on the line, they need to know their [U][I]coaches are trying to win too[/I][/U].

Now, if the [I][U]battle is close[/U][/I], and I have a sense it is, I think the locker room could be more excited by [I][U]playing with and mentoring the young guy[/U][/I] than playing with a guy they know will be gone next season.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

If anyone is holding out hope we see the Keenum of 2017 you're probably going to have a bad time this year. He had a career year on a loaded offense with the Vikings and they still elected to move on from him. Denver moved on after one mediocre season. Very unlikely he has another 2017 in him.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

I don't know what version of Keenum we'll see and for how long, but that 2017 year was more about Minnesota's defense than anything else. I do think that if the Redskins defense is top 10 - trending toward top 5 as some think it may be, it's not out of the realm of possibility that this team has a good year with him under center - especially if a couple of the potential playmakers on offense show up consistently...

Of course the team could suffer a ton of injuries and be terrible too...we'll just have to see how it all plays out.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

The defense still has a lot of young/raw talent and it will take time to push a top 5 unit. I also question our coordinator so we will see but hey man they have all the potential in the world. If we were a D first ball control team I think we'd fair well. The way the game is changing and evolving including rules and how games are called, the blatant screw job we seem to get 2-3 times a year ,tho, makes that difficult at the least

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

I know, lets get this season out of the way, but with McCoy likely on the scrap heap and Smith almost certainly retiring or at least moving on, what about next year? I can't help thinking the best thing all round is to sit Haskins rather than risk spoiling his chances now, and start Keenum unless/until he stinks. Then if Haskins shows the mettle to own the starting job next season, barring a diamond late round backup QB pick up (a la Cousins), keep Keenum as #2 next year as he'll have experience in the system to fall back on.
Keenum can't expect a big contract next time out, from anyone, and may well agree to stay for a reasonable cost. That gives us freedom to concentrate on other needs. Almost regardless how the TW situation turns out, and I strongly believe he's traded by week 1, we must at least think about a high pick on an LT, so having a decent backup QB is something I'd rather have in hand than use up a valuable pick on or bringing in yet another journeyman.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

We'll be 4-4 halfway thru in an already tough and highly contested conference and case will prolly see it thru barring injury.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse;1227391]I know, lets get this season out of the way, but with McCoy likely on the scrap heap and Smith almost certainly retiring or at least moving on, what about next year? I can't help thinking the best thing all round is to sit Haskins rather than risk spoiling his chances now, and start Keenum unless/until he stinks. Then if Haskins shows the mettle to own the starting job next season, barring a diamond late round backup QB pick up (a la Cousins), keep Keenum as #2 next year as he'll have experience in the system to fall back on.

Keenum can't expect a big contract next time out, from anyone, and may well agree to stay for a reasonable cost...[/QUOTE]

This is what I have been saying all along!

Give Dwayne Haskins a year to develop, then make him the starting QB next season.

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Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

Do not want Haskins out there until he is ready and the O- line play has improved. The success of the team is going to be based on how the last draft pans out and if injured players bounce back. That is shaky ground if you ask me.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

Look at the Baltimore blue print, they didn’t start Lamar until the end of the season.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

To be fair with Lamar it was more towards the middle of the season, Flacco got hurt, and they had the number 1 defense in the league last year. Just from a throwing perspective, Haskins is farther along than Jackson was as a rookie.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=MTK;1227363]If anyone is holding out hope we see the Keenum of 2017 you're probably going to have a bad time this year. He had a career year on a loaded offense with the Vikings and they still elected to move on from him. Denver moved on after one mediocre season. Very unlikely he has another 2017 in him.[/quote]

Put me in the camp that doesn't expect a 2017 from him, I would honestly be surprised if Haskins isn't starting by game 5.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

I don't think the question is whether you can expect a 2017 season from Keenum. That 2017 team had Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen, the WR weapons were just night/day better than ours (fingers crossed on McLaurin tho).

The question for me is whether Keenum can give you what Alex Smith gave you before getting hurt. Smith was on pace for 3200 yards, 16 TDs, 8 INTs.

And he was 6-3 going into the game where he got hurt. With a healthy line and running game, with this defense, it's not far fetched for me to think Keenum can be what Alex was. The exception though is INTs. Alex was among the best at avoiding turnovers. But in 2017 Keenum only threw 7. Last year in Denver, he threw 15.

What you get from Keenum in the ball security department will determine everything. We're going to be a team with a small margin for error. We will limit teams on defense, so even an underachieving offense centered around a ground & pound style will still be in the game. The question is can Keenum convert just enough chances into points, or will he turn it over to the other team, and give them a short field for that field goal that makes the difference?

All I know is if you put Haskins in, you end up with 20 INTs and you're dead in the water from the jump. He's not there yet, we see it in the preseason.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1227413]I don't think the question is whether you can expect a 2017 season from Keenum. That 2017 team had Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen, the WR weapons were just night/day better than ours (fingers crossed on McLaurin tho).

The question for me is whether Keenum can give you what Alex Smith gave you before getting hurt. Smith was on pace for 3200 yards, 16 TDs, 8 INTs.

And he was 6-3 going into the game where he got hurt. With a healthy line and running game, with this defense, it's not far fetched for me to think Keenum can be what Alex was. The exception though is INTs. Alex was among the best at avoiding turnovers. But in 2017 Keenum only threw 7. Last year in Denver, he threw 15.

What you get from Keenum in the ball security department will determine everything. We're going to be a team with a small margin for error. We will limit teams on defense, so even an underachieving offense centered around a ground & pound style will still be in the game. The question is can Keenum convert just enough chances into points, or will he turn it over to the other team, and give them a short field for that field goal that makes the difference?

All I know is if you put Haskins in, you end up with 20 INTs and you're dead in the water from the jump. He's not there yet, we see it in the preseason.[/quote]

Agree, Case had a miracle season in 2017, 81.4 Grade was among the best QBs. Our WRs are not close and Terry will have growing pains, you hardly ever see a rookie WR come in and dominate, Case will be Alex Smith if he doesn't turn it over.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1227413]I don't think the question is whether you can expect a 2017 season from Keenum. That 2017 team had Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen, the WR weapons were just night/day better than ours (fingers crossed on McLaurin tho).

The question for me is whether Keenum can give you what Alex Smith gave you before getting hurt. Smith was on pace for 3200 yards, 16 TDs, 8 INTs.

And he was 6-3 going into the game where he got hurt. With a healthy line and running game, with this defense, it's not far fetched for me to think Keenum can be what Alex was. The exception though is INTs. Alex was among the best at avoiding turnovers. But in 2017 Keenum only threw 7. Last year in Denver, he threw 15.

What you get from Keenum in the ball security department will determine everything. We're going to be a team with a small margin for error. We will limit teams on defense, so even an underachieving offense centered around a ground & pound style will still be in the game. The question is can Keenum convert just enough chances into points, or will he turn it over to the other team, and give them a short field for that field goal that makes the difference?

All I know is if you put Haskins in, you end up with 20 INTs and you're dead in the water from the jump. He's not there yet, we see it in the preseason.[/quote]

Keenum is not Alex Smith.

As for Haskins I wouldn't assume putting him in means a ton of INT's. It's all how they manage him and what they ask from him in the passing game. If the run game and D are solid he could manage the offense just fine.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

Keenum fumbled 11 times last year and lost 5. That's something to be concerned about.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

I doubt Case has a long leash, if the team starts off bad it's time to go to Haskins

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1227413]I don't think the question is whether you can expect a 2017 season from Keenum. That 2017 team had Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen, the WR weapons were just night/day better than ours (fingers crossed on McLaurin tho).

[B]The question for me is whether Keenum can give you what Alex Smith gave you before getting hurt. Smith was on pace for 3200 yards, 16 TDs, 8 INTs.[/B]

And he was 6-3 going into the game where he got hurt. With a healthy line and running game, with this defense, it's not far fetched for me to think Keenum can be what Alex was. The exception though is INTs. Alex was among the best at avoiding turnovers. But in 2017 Keenum only threw 7. Last year in Denver, he threw 15.

What you get from Keenum in the ball security department will determine everything. We're going to be a team with a small margin for error. We will limit teams on defense, so even an underachieving offense centered around a ground & pound style will still be in the game. The question is can Keenum convert just enough chances into points, or will he turn it over to the other team, and give them a short field for that field goal that makes the difference?

All I know is if you put Haskins in, you end up with 20 INTs and you're dead in the water from the jump. He's not there yet, we see it in the preseason.[/quote]

Great points. I think we will get half of Alex Smith from Keenum - it looks like Keenum will be able to protect ball better when Oline protects him. Keenum is aggressive, compared to Alex so we are likely to see more turnovers AND we are likely to see more big plays than we saw from Alex simply because Keenum is more aggressive. I saw few Broncos games last year and I noticed Keenum have lot of trust in WRs, he sometimes would throw ball to covered WR. This worked well in Minn because of Thielen and Diggs - both WRs are good and they can fight for the ball. Broncos' WRs beside Sanders aren't good. Redskins WRs are worse than Broncos at this point until they show that they can be friendly target for QB. Although we do have good TEs, compared to Broncos and that can work in our favor, assuming Reed stays healthy for most of the season and Davis doesn't regress throughout the season.

Even with bad WRs, I have a feeling that Keenum will play better than last year but he won't best his career year in Minn with Redskins. One thing we need to credit Gruden for, he works well with QBs and I believe this bodes well for Keenum. I expect to see Keenum making some mistakes in beginning of the season. If, and that is BIG if, Keenum isn't benched in favor of Haskins later in middle of season then I honestly can see Keenum getting better as the season progress. That is unless our WRs flop big time.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=MTK;1227415]Keenum is not Alex Smith.

As for Haskins I wouldn't assume putting him in means a ton of INT's. It's all how they manage him and what they ask from him in the passing game. If the run game and D are solid he could manage the offense just fine.[/quote]

I think he's just not going to see some things out there. He's going to think he's looking at a Tampa 2 that suddenly morphs into a Cover 3. I think he's also going to be surprised by the speed of LBs and their ability to run and cover - Jaylon Smith and Vander Esch come to mind. I think he's going to throw his fair share of rookie INTs in key situations, even if he's well managed within the offense. Just flat brain fart moments, I think they'll happen. He's just raw.

Your point on fumbles is important though. Alex was good at securing it when he got caught in the pocket. Whoever plays at QB will need to do the same. Cousins killed us in that regard and it's a very underrated element of QB play.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1227421]I think he's just not going to see some things out there. He's going to think he's looking at a Tampa 2 that suddenly morphs into a Cover 3. I think he's also going to be surprised by the speed of LBs and their ability to run and cover - Jaylon Smith and Vander Esch come to mind. I think he's going to throw his fair share of rookie INTs in key situations, even if he's well managed within the offense. Just flat brain fart moments, I think they'll happen. He's just raw.

Your point on fumbles is important though. Alex was good at securing it when he got caught in the pocket. Whoever plays at QB will need to do the same. Cousins killed us in that regard and it's a very underrated element of QB play.[/quote]

True but that's all stuff a rookie QB needs to go through in order to learn and develop. I'd like to see him get at least 8 starts this year. This idea that some have of him sitting all year is absurd. The only way I'd be ok with him sitting all year is if Case is playing lights out and we're in a playoff hunt.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[QUOTE=Meks;1227389]The defense still has a lot of young/raw talent and it will take time to push a top 5 unit. I also question our coordinator so we will see but hey man they have all the potential in the world. If we were a D first ball control team I think we'd fair well. The way the game is changing and evolving including rules and how games are called, the blatant screw job we seem to get 2-3 times a year ,tho, makes that difficult at the least[/QUOTE]How many starters would you label raw?

Sweat and SDH?

If GreGG was DC with the guys up front, I think we would have a lot more confidence.

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Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

I want to see Haskins play for over half the season. He either is the future franchise QB for the next decade or he’s not. Only by playing him will we learn the answer.

Case as QB and Gruden as HC are AT BEST a 8-8 team. The result is Gruden is still fired and we have lost a year of Haskins to learn, grow, mature.
We also get a new HC and new players and coaches, which puts back Haskins even further.

The problem with the Redskins is that BA is happy if we are 7-9 or 8-8. Then he can say, “playoffs are just a player or two away”. The Snyder era is one where we rarely hit rock bottom, enabling us to draft the top QB, nor are only occasionally good.

I want to see Haskins play and learn and probably lose. Not watch an average QB like Case play under a below average Head Coach.


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Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

Dwayne is very good at reading coverage pre and post snap, it's one of his strengths but his overall experience is why he is not starting, plus Case is the vet and Jay loves his veterans

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

Does anybody factor in how hard Jay's offense is to learn even for vets, let alone rookies?

Give me one highly regarded draft pick who came in here on offense and balled out from day one. Jay's offense just takes time to learn, and unfortunately for him he doesn't have the luxury of time right now. No playoffs and he's out. Haskins comes in, realistically playoffs are a long shot with a subpar offensive line and no weapons/unseasoned rookies at wideout. Guice/Peterson will help but let's be real, teams are going to stack the box until they know Keenum or Haskins can beat 'em.

Haskins coming in and balling out is unlikely because Jay does not run an offense that can suit the scheme for the player. We don't have a McVay running the offense for him anymore.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

I think Haskins will do well tonight. The ppl predicting he will throw 20 INT are not looking at teams like the Eagles who started Wentz from game 1. Within 2 yrs they win the SB. Having Haskins sit out the entire season is a colossal waste. We will have a new HC and new offense next year. He needs all the game experience he can get, NOW.


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Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=Warthog;1227900]I think Haskins will do well tonight. The ppl predicting he will throw 20 INT are not looking at teams like the Eagles who started Wentz from game 1. Within 2 yrs they win the SB. Having Haskins sit out the entire season is a colossal waste. We will have a new HC and new offense next year. He needs all the game experience he can get, NOW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Wentz didnt play at all in the Eagles run-up to their Super Bowl win and he was injured last year too so I'm not sure he's the best example. But that said, I agree that sitting DH all year is a total waste. Play him and see what he can do.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[QUOTE=irish;1227903]Wentz didnt play at all in the Eagles run-up to their Super Bowl win and he was injured last year too so I'm not sure he's the best example. But that said, I agree that sitting DH all year is a total waste. Play him and see what he can

Wentz has a 88 QB rating in regular season and a record of 18-11. He played his entire rookie year. He has a 92 QB rating in the playoffs.

If Haskins sits out the season what has he gained? He’ll have a better understanding of Jay Gruden’s offense AND have gained ZERO playing experience.

After the season Jay Gruden will be fired, so Haskin’s knowledge of Gruden’s offensive strategy and play calling will mean nothing. He will just be starting over with no more play time than he has now.

Put him in after we get through the first 5 games.


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Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

You guys are trying to juxtapose other rookie qb's success onto ours. Jay Gruden is none of those coaches, and Haskins is none of those qb's.

Set him in there too early with our shitty o-line and nobody he has a rapport with yet and we risk seriously undermining his confidence. Let him study the playbook, get comfortable and see the grind of the season firsthand, and stick him in there if Keenum doesn't live up to expectations. But if Gruden doesn't think he's ready and/or he doesn't have a solid base of plays he can run well, don't do it.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

He also has some at times atrocious footwork that needs to be fixed. That should be worked on in the practice field. He also needs to learn when to slide and when to run out of bounds, with his Tom Brady speed he isn't going to be ripping off any 60 yard runs anyway. Right now behind a suspect line he is an accident looking for a place to happen. He has potential, no reason to risk injury or his confidence at this time.

It amazes me in this day and age how many athletes get to the pros still lacking basic skills and have bad habits. I remember Colin Kapernick, strong arm, ran like a deer but his footwork and overall mechanics were a mess. I guess things have changed. I am pushing 60 and played quite a few different sports through college. No matter what the sport, footwork and mechanics were pounded in your head right off the bat. If you were lousy at them you spent a lot of time running laps.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

Just voted - I'm impressed with Haskins overall. I was one of those people who weren't sure of Haskins when we drafted him. After watching Haskins play in preseason, I'm sold on Haskins now. It is evident Haskins is still raw and has ways to go however, I'm excited about his talents and what he brings to the table. I even could even see how dynamic the offense can be when Haskins is in groove. Gruden made a right move by going with Keenum as this will give Haskins an opportunity to see how players work during the season, this will give Haskins time to learn how to study and prepare accordingly during season. At this point, I would delegate Alex Smith to mentor Haskins all way during the season if I were Gruden. In other words, I want to see Alex with Haskins every time we see one of them.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=mooby;1227788]Does anybody factor in how hard Jay's offense is to learn even for vets, let alone rookies?

[B]Give me one highly regarded draft pick who came in here on offense and balled out from day one[/B]. Jay's offense just takes time to learn, and unfortunately for him he doesn't have the luxury of time right now. No playoffs and he's out. Haskins comes in, realistically playoffs are a long shot with a subpar offensive line and no weapons/unseasoned rookies at wideout. Guice/Peterson will help but let's be real, teams are going to stack the box until they know Keenum or Haskins can beat 'em.

Haskins coming in and balling out is unlikely because Jay does not run an offense that can suit the scheme for the player. We don't have a McVay running the offense for him anymore.[/quote]

As much as I don't want to bring him up. RG3, mainly because the offense was tailored to him as you mentioned Gruden doesn't do

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=irish;1227903]Wentz didnt play at all in the Eagles run-up to their Super Bowl win and he was injured last year too so I'm not sure he's the best example. But that said, I agree that sitting DH all year is a total waste. Play him and see what he can do.[/quote]

To be fair, Wentz was the league MVP up to the point he got hurt during their SB year. That Eagles team was making the SB with Wentz or Foles that year. They were that good in 2017.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

John Clayton compared Haskins to Winston on the Morning drive sirius xm. I do see some comparisons, both move better than expected, big arms but are not as accurate as you would really like. I think the ceiling is higher for Dwayne tho

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1227983]John Clayton compared Haskins to Winston on the Morning drive sirius xm. I do see some comparisons, both move better than expected, big arms but are not as accurate as you would really like. I think the ceiling is higher for Dwayne tho[/quote]

Haskins has a much better mind than Winston though. Much higher ceiling too

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

If Haskins isn't playing by game 6, I'll be disappointed. I expect our record at that point to be 1-4 or 0-5. What's the point of watching Case Keenum finish out a mediocre season? Sitting on the sidelines only gets you so far. Playing in the actual game is the quickest road to gaining the experience he needs, even with a crappy OL.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=Warthog;1227955][QUOTE=irish;1227903]Wentz didnt play at all in the Eagles run-up to their Super Bowl win and he was injured last year too so I'm not sure he's the best example. But that said, I agree that sitting DH all year is a total waste. Play him and see what he can

Wentz has a 88 QB rating in regular season and a record of 18-11. He played his entire rookie year. He has a 92 QB rating in the playoffs.

If Haskins sits out the season what has he gained? He’ll have a better understanding of Jay Gruden’s offense AND have gained ZERO playing experience.

After the season Jay Gruden will be fired, so Haskin’s knowledge of Gruden’s offensive strategy and play calling will mean nothing. He will just be starting over with no more play time than he has now.

Put him in after we get through the first 5 games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

How does Wentz have any kind of rating in the playoffs since he's never played in a playoff game. 2016 the Eagles didn't make the playoffs, 2017 & 2018 he was hurt and didn't play in the playoffs.

The only way I wouldn't start Haskins by week 6 is if the team is 4-1. He needs to play sooner rather than later.

Re: Dwayne Haskins preseason thread
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1227975]As much as I don't want to bring him up. RG3, mainly because the offense was tailored to him as you mentioned Gruden doesn't do[/quote]

I should've clarified better Quake, I'm referring to Jay Gruden draft picks only. We haven't had any offensive draft picks come in as rookies under him and ball out their rookie years. I'll concede Scherff did but he's the only one.