Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1312306]You guys kill me w/ your stat sheets. lol.[/quote]

You killing me with your eye test evaluations.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Don't love it - don't hate it either. Mostly negative feelings because he's not the quarterback he used to be and I don't think stats tell the true story. This board loves to shit on Kirk because he puts up good stats but doesn't elevate the Vikings to the next level - I feel the same way about Wentz. He didn't even show up in the biggest game of the year last year for the Colts.

Would we take 27/7 if it meant another 7-10 record? Would you take 16/15 if we went 10-7?

If Scott Turner is the offensive coordinator Ron thinks he is - and Wentz is a pleasant surprise his stock will go up. If not we're gonna look like bitches - because no-top tier qb wants to even look in our direction and we gave up a pair of 3rd rounders - or worse a 3 and a 2nd - for a has been qb.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1312305]Watch him when his team needed him the most. He shit all over himself against the worst team in the league. Winning QB's don't do that.

I have just never really been a fan of the guy. It's like the league caught up to him and he had no change up. He is always trying to make superman plays ducking under the d-linemen, then he either fumbles or takes horrible sacks. He just makes way too many bad plays. He is a bigger version of RG3.

Again, when two teams move on from you that is just a really bad sign. Real bad. Ballard is a solid GM, he's not going to just get rid of his starting QB for no reason.[/quote]

Ballard gave up a first for Wentz. He's not a solid GM by your argument.

I don't love this move, but I'm not going out of my way to say that it was terrible.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1312310][B]Ballard gave up a first for Wentz.[/B] He's not a solid GM by your argument.

I don't love this move, but I'm not going out of my way to say that it was terrible.[/quote]

A first and a 3rd.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1312310][B]Ballard gave up a first for Wentz. He's not a solid GM by your argument.[/B]

I don't love this move, but I'm not going out of my way to say that it was terrible.[/quote]

:laughing2

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=mooby;1312309]Don't love it - don't hate it either. Mostly negative feelings because he's not the quarterback he used to be and I don't think stats tell the true story. This board loves to shit on Kirk because he puts up good stats but doesn't elevate the Vikings to the next level - I feel the same way about Wentz. He didn't even show up in the biggest game of the year last year for the Colts.

Would we take 27/7 if it meant another 7-10 record? Would you take 16/15 if we went 10-7?

If Scott Turner is the offensive coordinator Ron thinks he is - and Wentz is a pleasant surprise his stock will go up. If not we're gonna look like bitches - because no-top tier qb wants to even look in our direction and we gave up a pair of 3rd rounders - or worse a 3 and a 2nd - for a has been qb.[/quote]

I don't think giving up a pair of 3rd rounders is the worst thing, if it allows you to wait until the draft and see if you can get a QB at #11 or it gives you the ability to trade down.

Wentz is just a bridge QB, and I do prefer a 1-year and a way out, than overpaying Winston/Trubisky/Mariota for two years.

And yes, giving up a pair of 3rd rounders is overpaying, but that happens with QBs.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Don't love it - don't hate it.

I think it's a bit premature to say he is a 'has been' QB though. He's been in the league a whopping six years. He had a bad year on a bad Eagles team in 2020. He had a pretty good year last year, and four of the last five years. That Colts defense didn't do them any favors in that last game giving up 26 points to the Jags - and that O-line didn't do them any favors allowing six sacks. You can put it all on Wentz I guess since he's the QB, but I'm not sure that is a fair overall evaluation of what happened.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1312308]You killing me with your eye test evaluations.[/quote]

He has failed w/ TWO teams w/ TWO coaches that PLAYED QB in the NFL..lol. Think about that for a minute. You're saying I'm judging him by an eye test?? If these two coaches can not get him right but Scott Turner is supposed to?? hahaha.

Now you've got your cap space taken up by this bum. How do you re-sign McKissic??

This is such a swing for the fences move by Ron. I have lost all faith in him now. He isn't a GM. He is just a so so coach w/ a losing record.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1312313]I don't think giving up a pair of 3rd rounders is the worst thing, if it allows you to wait until the draft and see if you can get a QB at #11 or it gives you the ability to trade down.

Wentz is just a bridge QB, and I do prefer a 1-year and a way out, than overpaying Winston/Trubisky/Mariota for two years.

And yes, giving up a pair of 3rd rounders is overpaying, but that happens with QBs.[/quote]

Giving up the picks isn't bad if you are let's say the Rams. We ain't that. We need those to help upgrade a roster w/ a lot of holes.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1312310]Ballard gave up a first for Wentz. He's not a solid GM by your argument.

I don't love this move, but I'm not going out of my way to say that it was terrible.[/quote]

Yep... and he did what a good GM does, admits his mistake right away, then finds a sucker to make up for that mistake and washes his hands of it.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1312315]He has failed w/ TWO teams w/ TWO coaches that PLAYED QB in the NFL..lol. Think about that for a minute. You're saying I'm judging him by an eye test?? If these two coaches can not get him right but Scott Turner is supposed to?? hahaha.

Now you've got your cap space taken up by this bum. How do you re-sign McKissic??

This is such a swing for the fences move by Ron. I have lost all faith in him now. He isn't a GM. He is just a so so coach w/ a losing record.[/quote]

I see it differently - obviously, and it's not like he's taking up any more cap space than other capable Veteran QBs are for their respective teams. They'll have to get creative, that's the nature of the beast.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1312305]Watch him when his team needed him the most. He shit all over himself against the worst team in the league. Winning QB's don't do that.

I have just never really been a fan of the guy. It's like the league caught up to him and he had no change up. He is always trying to make superman plays ducking under the d-linemen, then he either fumbles or takes horrible sacks. He just makes way too many bad plays. He is a bigger version of RG3.

Again, when two teams move on from you that is just a really bad sign. Real bad. Ballard is a solid GM, he's not going to just get rid of his starting QB for no reason.[/quote]

If you're being intellectually honest, you can acknowledge that he still pats the ball and delays throwing it in rhythm, still takes sacks more than most, and he still misses throws which is what got him run out of Philly more than anything else.

But you can also clearly see he can bomb the ball downfield with pretty good accuracy, he can throw off balance, he can still escape, and he's still a pain in the ass to bring to the ground because of his size.

The off balance throws is how he passed for 27 TDs, watch the highlights, so many were off balance. He'll make off schedule plays - Heinicke did that, but more with his legs than anything. Carson can do it by scrambling and throwing 30 yards downfield.

There are positives here but there are also limitations. I actually struggle to see how people hate this move. He's an average quarterback, making average starting quarterback money, and we gave up two picks that turn into average NFL players.

The grade here starts with C for that reason, and if he repeats a 27-7 type of performance for us, it goes up to B or higher. There's no chance we hurt ourselves in the long run - we can cut him at this time next year and carry $0 dead money into 2023.

I think you're upset because you didn't get Russell Wilson, not because you got Carson Wentz.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

I think value wise Wentz puts you in a better position to win games than two third rounders so the cost doesn’t bother me.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1312320]I think value wise Wentz puts you in a better position to win games than two third rounders so the cost doesn’t bother me.[/quote]

That's the rational way to look at this.

The irrational way is to feel disappointment that we didn't get one of the big fish (Rodgers Wilson Watson), and let that cloud our evaluation of Wentz himself.

If Wentz sucks, you'll be picking in the top 10 next year, and you can cut him with no cap problems. In position to solve QB then in the draft.

Have you landed a guy that makes you a super bowl contender? Probably not. That's why the disappointment, he's not Russell Wilson.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Schneed10;1312319]If you're being intellectually honest, you can acknowledge that he still pats the ball and delays throwing it in rhythm, still takes sacks more than most, and he still misses throws which is what got him run out of Philly more than anything else.

But you can also clearly see he can bomb the ball downfield with pretty good accuracy, he can throw off balance, he can still escape, and he's still a pain in the ass to bring to the ground because of his size.

The off balance throws is how he passed for 27 TDs, watch the highlights, so many were off balance. He'll make off schedule plays - Heinicke did that, but more with his legs than anything. Carson can do it by scrambling and throwing 30 yards downfield.

There are positives here but there are also limitations. I actually struggle to see how people hate this move. He's an average quarterback, making average starting quarterback money, and we gave up two picks that turn into average NFL players.

The grade here starts with C for that reason, and if he repeats a 27-7 type of performance for us, it goes up to B or higher. There's no chance we hurt ourselves in the long run - [B]we can cut him at this time next year and carry $0 dead money into 2023.[/B]

I think you're upset because you didn't get Russell Wilson, not because you got Carson Wentz.[/quote]

Agreed on everything said.

Why wouldnt we be on the hook for about 12.2M in bonus money? Ive seen this said but just by fans

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Wentz is better than Hurts and Jones guys let’s seriously be real here. The eye test and stats will show that. Jones is a horrible passer and Hurts ain’t much better.

Like I said he’s not elite by any means but he’s as good as the best option we had left which was Winston

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

You put it more logically than I Schneed. In terms of salary low 20 mil is reasonable if he gets his bonuses then he had a good season and probably so did the team so no big deal there either.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=SunnySide;1312322]Agreed on everything said.

Why wouldnt we be on the hook for about 12.2M in bonus money? Ive seen this said but just by fans[/quote]

Those are roster bonuses in 2023 and 2024, they are not guaranteed. They only become guaranteed if he's on the roster by the third day after the league year starts. Cut him before then, don't owe him shit.

And PS fans don't know shit, I know shit.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

All I want is to be half way excited about Sundays in the fall, that is all, I am a simple man.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Schneed10;1312319]If you're being intellectually honest, you can acknowledge that he still pats the ball and delays throwing it in rhythm, still takes sacks more than most, and he still misses throws which is what got him run out of Philly more than anything else.

But you can also clearly see he can bomb the ball downfield with pretty good accuracy, he can throw off balance, he can still escape, and he's still a pain in the ass to bring to the ground because of his size.

The off balance throws is how he passed for 27 TDs, watch the highlights, so many were off balance. He'll make off schedule plays - Heinicke did that, but more with his legs than anything. Carson can do it by scrambling and throwing 30 yards downfield.

There are positives here but there are also limitations. I actually struggle to see how people hate this move. He's an average quarterback, making average starting quarterback money, and we gave up two picks that turn into average NFL players.

The grade here starts with C for that reason, and if he repeats a 27-7 type of performance for us, it goes up to B or higher. There's no chance we hurt ourselves in the long run - we can cut him at this time next year and carry $0 dead money into 2023.

I think you're upset because you didn't get Russell Wilson, not because you got Carson Wentz.[/quote]

Totally wrong on Wilson. We had zero chance w/ him. It was never going to happen here.

I just don't see the 3rd round and 2nd round picks being average. They could turn to be a lot more. As I said out best player is a 2nd rounder.

My point is you can go out and get an average QB and not give up the compensation. I mention maybe not re-signing McKissic. We talked about Mitch, Winston and so on. Ok maybe they sign elsewhere. Then what about Bridgewater? He knows this offense. He is also an average QB. You can get the same production out of him w/out the financial cost or draft pick comp.

Yes Wentz has highlights but he also has a lot of lowlights. A lot of them. I think Ballard said that the problem w/ this guy is he simply misses the layups. He misses the easy routine plays that any NFL QB can make. That is why has has been moved twice.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Schneed10;1312325]Those are roster bonuses in 2023 and 2024, they are not guaranteed. They only become guaranteed if he's on the roster by the third day after the league year starts. Cut him before then, don't owe him shit.

And PS fans don't know shit, I know shit.[/quote]

Did he really eat up all our money on the salary cap?

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Just gonna say homerun here. Much better trade a than MCNabb and Smith.

Telling me we retain both 1st and second this year and just a 2nd/3rd next year…and we didn’t include a player for this quality of a QB? good job and fair deal IMO

I thought Wentz was best option outside of AR/Russ/Watson. I like this much better than Mitch Trub and especially Jimmy G. Wentz is better than Winston who is coming off a major injury.

This is competent and Ron is the perfect guy to have for Wentz to help him with whatever locker room problems he may have.

I love it

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1312323]Wentz is better than Hurts and Jones guys let’s seriously be real here. The eye test and stats will show that. Jones is a horrible passer and Hurts ain’t much better.

Like I said he’s not elite by any means but he’s as good as the best option we had left which was Winston[/quote]

I will give you Jones. But no he is not better than Hurts. Nope. If he was better than he'd still be an Eagle.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=mredskins;1312328]Did he really eat up all our money on the salary cap?[/quote]

Yes we now have $5.9M remaining, before making moves on Landon Collins or others. Cutting Landon would create enough room to sign say a Bobby Wagner, if we wanted. There's still a lot that could be done to optimize cap space, you shouldn't look at the $5.9M remaining as like 'oh shit we just spent all our money'.

We can and still will make moves.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Schneed10;1312319]If you're being intellectually honest, you can acknowledge that he still pats the ball and delays throwing it in rhythm, still takes sacks more than most, and he still misses throws which is what got him run out of Philly more than anything else.

But you can also clearly see he can bomb the ball downfield with pretty good accuracy, he can throw off balance, he can still escape, and he's still a pain in the ass to bring to the ground because of his size.

The off balance throws is how he passed for 27 TDs, watch the highlights, so many were off balance. He'll make off schedule plays - Heinicke did that, but more with his legs than anything. Carson can do it by scrambling and throwing 30 yards downfield.

There are positives here but there are also limitations. I actually struggle to see how people hate this move. He's an average quarterback, making average starting quarterback money, and we gave up two picks that turn into average NFL players.

The grade here starts with C for that reason, and if he repeats a 27-7 type of performance for us, it goes up to B or higher. There's no chance we hurt ourselves in the long run - we can cut him at this time next year and carry $0 dead money into 2023.

I think you're upset because you didn't get Russell Wilson, not because you got Carson Wentz.[/quote]

Well said. I agree 100%.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1312277]So we traded two 3rd round picks for him. He had 27 TDs and 7 ints last year. When he is healthy we've seen first hand what he can do. The risk is pretty minimal if you ask me. No matter what we did people were gonna be upset. We didn't get Rodgers nor Wilson, would you all rather trade away a first for Jimmy G.? I'm confused at those who are ticked off, what is the alternative solution? Heineke again? We know he isn't winning anything[/quote]

This…great post Quake

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1312330]I will give you Jones. But no he is not better than Hurts. Nope. If he was better than he'd still be an Eagle.[/quote]

Despite your optimism about Hurts, the Eagles put in an offer on Wilson that got rejected by Seattle.

I don't totally disagree about your concerns about Wentz, but let's not act like the entire Eagles organization is behind Hurts.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1312327]Totally wrong on Wilson. We had zero chance w/ him. It was never going to happen here.

[B]I just don't see the 3rd round and 2nd round picks being average. They could turn to be a lot more. As I said out best player is a 2nd rounder.[/B]

My point is you can go out and get an average QB and not give up the compensation. I mention maybe not re-signing McKissic. We talked about Mitch, Winston and so on. Ok maybe they sign elsewhere. Then what about Bridgewater? He knows this offense. He is also an average QB. You can get the same production out of him w/out the financial cost or draft pick comp.

Yes Wentz has highlights but he also has a lot of lowlights. A lot of them. I think Ballard said that the problem w/ this guy is he simply misses the layups. He misses the easy routine plays that any NFL QB can make. That is why has has been moved twice.[/quote]

Now you're just being irrational about the value of 2nd and 3rd rounders. They could be good, they could be complete non contributors, and they could end up as depth guys.

On the layup issue, I agree that's a problem, and ultimately what stops him from being considered anything better than an average starter. At the same time Bridgewater has never thrown for 27 touchdowns. So he might make layups but that's all he makes. Jameis, well he makes half court shots but he also turns the ball over like crazy.

I think you're looking at having to commit more guaranteed money to Teddy and Jameis than you think. There are still teams out there thirsty for QBs. Let's revisit this in a few weeks once those guys have signed. Bet you feel better about not having any guaranteed money committed to Wentz once you see what those guys get on the market.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1312327]Totally wrong on Wilson. We had zero chance w/ him. It was never going to happen here.

I just don't see the 3rd round and 2nd round picks being average. They could turn to be a lot more. [B]As I said out best player is a 2nd rounder.[/B]

My point is you can go out and get an average QB and not give up the compensation. I mention maybe not re-signing McKissic. We talked about Mitch, Winston and so on. Ok maybe they sign elsewhere. Then what about Bridgewater? He knows this offense. He is also an average QB. You can get the same production out of him w/out the financial cost or draft pick comp.

Yes Wentz has highlights but he also has a lot of lowlights. A lot of them. I think Ballard said that the problem w/ this guy is he simply misses the layups. He misses the easy routine plays that any NFL QB can make. That is why has has been moved twice.[/quote]

Who is our best player?

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=mooby;1312336]Who is our best player?[/quote]

Terry?

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

I remember someone described Wentz as...'a passenger on the bus, not the driver."
In games Wentz does not look like he is having fun. Since Wentz's injuries, he never regained his on the field poise and skill. In the limited time I have watch him play he looks uncomfortable on the field and makes mistakes.
Kind of like RGIII after he tore his knee, something changed. A light went out.

Injury History from Draft Sharks
Oct 17, 2015, Hand Wrist Fracture - Wentz broke a bone in his throwing wrist that required surgery.
Aug 11, 2016, Chest Rib Fracture, Wentz suffered a hairline fracture in his ribs against Tampa Bay.
Dec 10, 2017, ACL and LCL Tear Grade 3 Wentz departed in the 2nd quarter with a torn ACL & LCL. He returned for Week 3 of the 2018 season.
Oct 11, 2018, Back Vertebral Fracture, Exact date of injury is unknown, but Wentz's back trouble dates back to October. He missed the final 3 games of the year but avoided surgery.
Jan 5, 2020, Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1, Carson suffered a concussion in the team's Wild Card playoff loss to the Seahawks in the first quarter.
Jul 29, 2021, Pedal Foot, Wentz injured his foot during Indianapolis' training camp practice. He missed the remainder of the preseason.
Sep 19, 2021, Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3, Wentz suffered ankle injuries in the Week 2 game vs. the Rams. He was available for the next game

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

If RR came out and said yea I been reading the fan forums and I think we will stay put with Taylor because a lot of fans don’t like any of the rookie QBs and they hate Trubisky, Wentz, jimmy G , Marriotta.. we whiffed on Wilson and Rogers was never gonna leave GB .
This really was the only move .. I would like to see what Winston gets in a trade ( is he worth our first round pic?) Wentz is a upgrade over Taylor who most of you refer to as noodle arm and some said doesn’t belong in the league ..

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1312330]I will give you Jones. But no he is not better than Hurts. Nope. If he was better than he'd still be an Eagle.[/quote]


And perhaps so would the Philly coach who benched him.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Wentz played with one of the best OL’s in football, yet he collapsed the last 3 games Of the season, he basically sucked!! I saw a couple of games and he looked washed up and had a noodle for an arm.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Time will tell if this was a good move. I'm more optimistic than not.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Wentz Colts highlights:

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=05UB5Wwj5yg[/url]

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Maybe Wentz hanging around Taylor will help .. If you could combine there strengths you would have a damn good QB !

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1312341]Wentz played with one of the best OL’s in football, yet he collapsed the last 3 games Of the season, he basically sucked!! I saw a couple of games and he looked washed up and had a noodle for an arm.[/quote]

I had an over season win total of 9.5 for the Colts. All they had to do was beat Jacksonville and I got $500. I proceeded to watch Wentz just fall apart. He couldn't do anything right when they needed him the most. Total choker against the worst team in football. Dude isn't a baller at all.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

I agree he has some sort of mental breakdown in games that matter … maybe Ron can figure it out

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=mooby;1312336]Who is our best player?[/quote]

Check that. 3rd rounder and it's McLaurin.