Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

I mean K.C. is K.C. but...... jdr is a goner if this d doesn't live up to the hype

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

Why is it that our LB's and DB's don't seem to know their assignments and have been sub-par for years and yet their position coaches are still here? Instead RR fires the DL coach.

RR was wrong when he said that winning on 1st and 2nd downs would help to solve the extremely poor defensive performance on 3rd down. In fact, the down and distance doesn't seem to matter. We lose on 3rd down no matter what.

Why can't our defense create turnovers?

JDR seems to be carrying a grudge against RR. Is that a factor?

What is the problem with our defense? Is it poor personnel? Is it poor position coaching? Is it a bad scheme or poor play calling? Whatever the causes may be, fixing the defense is an emergency. RR needs to fix it now by whatever means necessary or we won't win this season.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1320006]Why is it that our LB's and DB's don't seem to know their assignments and have been sub-par for years and yet their position coaches are still here? Instead RR fires the DL coach.

RR was wrong when he said that winning on 1st and 2nd downs would help to solve the extremely poor defensive performance on 3rd down. In fact, the down and distance doesn't seem to matter. We lose on 3rd down no matter what.

Why can't our defense create turnovers?

JDR seems to be carrying a grudge against RR. Is that a factor?

What is the problem with our defense? Is it poor personnel? Is it poor position coaching? Is it a bad scheme or poor play calling? Whatever the causes may be, fixing the defense is an emergency. RR needs to fix it now by whatever means necessary or we won't win this season.[/quote]

I blame jack through and through.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=Meks;1320012]I blame jack through and through.[/quote]

Agreed, even with how adamant I've been about the lack of significant addition at LB, this defensive roster has too much talent to get humiliated the way it is.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

Hopefully after the cuts we bring in some LB help … trade Gibson for a LB !

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

I haven’t finished the game but it looks like there’s not a Lotta good to say.
Defense stopped run well,pass defense sucked.Special teams sucked on kickoffs,blocking was horrible.Wentz was blah,Heineken I thought looked great on the limited play he had.
I saw someone say something well the defense didn’t have Chase, well after last year I’m not expecting that to make a difference

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

Other than the 3rd down defense, I like what I have seen so far this preseason. Preseason results mean nothing anyway, so I am not going to get too excited about the positives or the negatives. They aren't showing everything, just evaluating players.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1320022]Other than the 3rd down defense, I like what I have seen so far this preseason. Preseason results mean nothing anyway, so I am not going to get too excited about the positives or the negatives. They aren't showing everything, just evaluating players.[/quote]

Per usual, even-keeled. 👍🏾

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

The difference was KC has Pat Mahomes and we don't. He put up 14 against our first team d. Had that been a real game it would have gotten ugly.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1320022]Other than the 3rd down defense, I like what I have seen so far this preseason. Preseason results mean nothing anyway, so I am not going to get too excited about the positives or the negatives. They aren't showing everything, just evaluating players.[/quote]

Well you could say the same about KC. What were they showing?

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1319989]We are better talent wise than both so yes I agree. [B]If we lose both it’s time to fire Ron[/B][/quote]

From what I have seen in the preseason (which isn't very much) it seems like the same old same old as when Ron took over. Nothing much has changed. The team may have more talent but its not well coached. Ron's record over his past 4 years of coaching hasn't been good. IMO if they don't make the playoffs this year Ron is gone.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[QUOTE=irish;1320027]From what I have seen in the preseason (which isn't very much) it seems like the same old same old as when Ron took over. Nothing much has changed. The team may have more talent but its not well coached. Ron's record over his past 4 years of coaching hasn't been good. IMO if they don't make the playoffs this year Ron is gone.[/QUOTE]


3 winning records out of 11 seasons definitely isn’t good. Alot goes into that. Unfortunate injuries, taking over dumpster fires, etc. However it is year three now and our schedule is weak. There have definitely been questionable personnel moves this off-season which I believe Ron has a big say in. If we win 7-8 games again the only way he keeps his job is if there are catastrophic injuries. Personally I do not think he is a good HC but he will not get fired if there are major injuries.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

Time for Jon Allen to earn that leadership title in camp. Time to get physical about this bs

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1320026]Well you could say the same about KC. What were they showing?[/quote]

Well .. they were showing Mahomes, who went off schedule on at least one 3rd down play to move the chains on a play most NFL qbs dont make. Mahomes/Chiefs are on a different level than us. 150 yards, 2 80+ yards TD drives on first 2 possessions.

----------------

Preseason so its lame to complain about boring football but that was some boring football, extension of last year.

On offense

-2nd and 1 (13;)0 1Q) .. run
- 2nd and 1 (12:24 2Q) .. run
- 2nd and 1 (10:22 2Q) .. run

Call one PA deep shot w Wentz. Give Wentz and McLaurin/Samuel/Dotson/Brown some live ball chances.

Defense

3rd Down D ... horrible. Move some guys around, get a TE or a RB man matched up on a LB and pick up your 1st down. Or if we show zone, run some shallow rub route target the zone and pick up your first down.

Jamin Davis played pretty well in some post game twitter cut ups in coverage

If JDR insists on playing zones, we arent good at knowing when to release and when to stick with our guy. We arent good at communicating when guys are being passed off. Arent good at picking guys up. Arent good at not QB staring.

On 3rd down .. rush 6 and play man on the outside. Trust the rush to get there, trust your CBs to jam at the line and cover for 3 seconds knowing if the ball does come out its coming out hot.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

I hate the "It's only PS excuse" I Love how Baltimore legit wants to win every game no matter what.

Lets call it like it is, we have looked very subpar so far. Wentz has been fine but the defense has been shit.

Nothing is going to change until we get better LB play

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

The 3rd down defense looks like its going to be absolutely abysmal again. Doesn't matter if its 3rd and 12 or 3rd and 4, someone will be wide-ass open in the secondary.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

I think RR is a very good coach, leader of men. I think Scott Turner is a good OC.

RR trusts his Coordinators.

Scott Turner has had below avg players to work with and a bottom 5 Qb for every game of his tenure here. But hes been able to call a playbook that works to our strengths. Quick one read looks to our backs compliment our weak armed no experience QB and our RB personnel. Also saves our OL and limits turn overs. All geared towards limiting turn overs, valuing T.O.P. and trusting your D.

JDR has most of our resources (up until this year). 5 1st rounders. Fuller in FA. WJ3 in FA.

This team is getting better but it needs its playmakers to step up.

It needs our D to get off the field on 3rd down.

It needs wentz to smart play pitch and catch and then set up the PA bomb.

Theres a formula in place to win. Just need to go out and "do it". Blanket their TEs on 3rd. Throw it long when Terry is 1 on 1.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1320033]I hate the "It's only PS excuse" I Love how Baltimore legit wants to win every game no matter what.

Lets call it like it is, we have looked very subpar so far. Wentz has been fine but the defense has been shit.

Nothing is going to change until we get better LB play[/quote]

Im holding out hope that we go aggressive and blitz on 3rd .. just dont want to show it in PS

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1320033]I hate the "It's only PS excuse" I Love how Baltimore legit wants to win every game no matter what.

Lets call it like it is, we have looked very subpar so far. Wentz has been fine but the defense has been shit.

Nothing is going to change until we get better LB play[/quote]

I would disagree on Wentz cause he took possible points off the board with a stupid sack. However I don't think he played bad. Taylor played better imo.

It's going to be a long year in coverage. These guys are not going to hold up w/out a pass rush. Curl may be a good hitter and solid tackler but he and McCain are going to get exposed in coverage.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1320026]Well you could say the same about KC. What were they showing?[/quote]

They were showing that they have better players than us.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1320040]They were showing that they have better players than us.[/QUOTE]


And better coaching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1320039]I would disagree on Wentz cause he took possible points off the board with a stupid sack. However I don't think he played bad. Taylor played better imo.

It's going to be a long year in coverage. These guys are not going to hold up w/out a pass rush. Curl may be a good hitter and solid tackler but he and McCain are going to get exposed in coverage.[/quote]

Unless CY and Sweat all of the sudden become TJ Watt like, our defense will struggle vs the pass yet again. Jags and Lions maybe not as much but even those 2 teams have weapons that can get open on us

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=calia;1320042]And better coaching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Not even in the same league. Andy Reid could score 40 on JDR every week

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=punch it in;1320028]3 winning records out of 11 seasons definitely isn’t good. Alot goes into that. Unfortunate injuries, taking over dumpster fires, etc. However it is year three now and our schedule is weak. There have definitely been questionable personnel moves this off-season which I believe Ron has a big say in. If we win 7-8 games again the only way he keeps his job is if there are catastrophic injuries. Personally [B]I do not think he is a good HC[/B] but he will not get fired if there are major injuries.[/quote]

Neither do I. Jay Gruden was 13-19 in his first two season and RR who was is viewed as a superior coach is 14-19. I don't think this is what the fans or ownership expected. This team doesn't seem to be getting better and IMO that's on coaching. I can see Ron getting fired if this is another losing season but I'm hard pressed to see who they can bring in that would do any better.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1320040]They were showing that they have better players than us.[/quote]

this

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=SunnySide;1320036]Im holding out hope that we go aggressive and blitz on 3rd .. just dont want to show it in PS[/quote]

That's the best we can hope for - but when have you ever seen JDR turn it up a notch with the pressure when the regular season starts?

He acts like we can sustain pressure rushing 4 every down - our d-line is paper tigers at best right now. He's gotta be on the hot seat if we can't get off the field on 3rd down this year.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

Last year this defense blitzed 31% of the time, when the opposing QB dropped back to pass. That was good for 7th most in the league.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1320051]Last year this defense blitzed 31% of the time, when the opposing QB dropped back to pass. That was good for 7th most in the league.[/quote]

Happy to admit when I'm wrong. And I'm wrong on that one.

His defense still ain't shit though, and hasn't lived up to the hype since he got here.

Chief, it's hard to defend a guy when his unit has made 1 third down stop against starting offenses in two preseason games, but somehow you found a way to do it.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

I'm definitely not defending him. I was more so pointing out that - blitz or no blitz - they haven't been effective.

But I don't put a lot of stock in the preseason, or get too caught up with the results. I just think it's so different, schemes, players, game planning, 'experimenting'. It isn't comforting though, that we are seeing the same things that were wrong with this defense last year.

In my opinion, if the defense is crap again coming out of the gate (especially the 3rd down defense) I want to see a change by week 5.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

It's actually more depressing. No matter what JDR does, it doesn't work.

So either most of our players suck or JDR isn't getting it done. I definitely believe it's the latter.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

I think the alarm will sound if we lose either of our first 2 games, or if they are too close....both of which are very very possible.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1320054]I'm definitely not defending him. I was more so pointing out that - [B]blitz or no blitz - they haven't been effective.[/B]

But I don't put a lot of stock in the preseason, or get too caught up with the results. I just think it's so different, schemes, players, game planning, 'experimenting'. It isn't comforting though, that we are seeing the same things that were wrong with this defense last year.

In my opinion, if the defense is crap again coming out of the gate (especially the 3rd down defense) I want to see a change by week 5.[/quote]

Good point. When things aren't working well we, me included, have a tendency to look for easy fixes: blitz more! switch back to a 4-3 ! more screens !

But the game is way more complicated than that, those "solutions" are way too vague. There are billions of ways to blitz, millions of way to align in a 4-3 and many different ways to screen. The matter is finding the appropriate way for each situation, depending of your personnel, scheme, opponent and in game situation... And that's why none of us are Head Coaches ^^

Beside from X and O, one thing we can judge to a certain extent is intensity and discipline. This defense lacks both. And this points towards coaching.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1320060]I think the alarm will sound if we lose either of our first 2 games, or if they are too close....both of which are very very possible.[/quote]Lawrence, reportedly, looked great last game. Kid has superb talent and is a winner. Imagine him and Pederson will be gunning for us week 1. Etienne is no joke at all either. Know it's only week 1, but it really is a game we need to win.

Re: Manders v Chiefs
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1320051]Last year this defense blitzed 31% of the time, when the opposing QB dropped back to pass. That was good for 7th most in the league.[/quote]

I looked into this blitz thing last year. it was an interesting dive. We didnt blitz a lot in the first 4-5 games then dialed it up more.

What I wanted to find out was "what counts as a blitz"?

-Traditionally if you rush 5 or more, its a blitz. Excluding goal line plays (and I imagine but havent seen in writing those 4th and 1 QB sneaks).
- If you rush 4 or more in a 3-4 formation
- If you show 5 but only rush 4, its counts as a blitz (this I heard on radio from football outsiders or PFF). This surprised me.

Last year we did a lot of 5 man rushes.

London Fletcher said the other day that our most used 3rd down formation is a 5 man rush where the LB shows intent to rush the A gap. This forces the offense to call Five-O which means the O protection is now man 5 hats on 5 hats.

We did this 5 man rush A gap so teams couldnt double our edge or DTs and we hoped one of our stubs won 1 on 1.

Sometimes the LB (Holcomb) would rush and sometimes he would show rush then drop back.

--------------------

London said hes not worried about our PS 3rd down D bc we werent showing or using what we will do in the regular season.

Conversely .. mahomes said after the game he was surprised we did a "fire" blitz on one of his TD passes, saying you never see that blitz in PS