Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=punch it in;1355679]But in that position when a fg will keep u within a score you cant rush it. Take the sack. Hold onto the ball. You cannot just chuck it. Which is what it sounds like happened.[/quote]

I watched Browning do that in the red zone for Cincy to save a FG instead of trying to force it in the first quarter. Game IQ

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1355742]I watched Browning do that in the red zone for Cincy to save a FG instead of trying to force it in the first quarter. Game IQ[/quote]

Trouble is it seems the coaches ( and media and fans) have been pounding the idea of not taking sacks into Howell that his play took a no dive as soon as he gave into that idea

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1355745]Trouble is it seems the coaches ( and media and fans) have been pounding the idea of not taking sacks into Howell that his play took a no dive as soon as he gave into that idea[/quote]

This cuz the line n howell at times gave up too many

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

I’ve watched every game except this one. Today I went to brunch with my coworkers, got lit and barely thought about the Commies. It was nice.

I’ll be back to my masochism for the last game.


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Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1355757]I’ve watched every game except this one. Today I went to brunch with my coworkers, got lit and barely thought about the Commies. It was nice.

I’ll be back to my masochism for the last game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Dallas will need the win, we will get trounced. Better to get lit and barely think about it (of course I will probably not follow my own advice)

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

Sam was a tease today. He made his first big boy throw to a WR beyond 40 yards. Then he shits the bed with terrible INTs.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=jamf;1355765]Sam was a tease today. He made his first big boy throw to a WR beyond 40 yards. Then he shits the bed with terrible INTs.[/quote]

Sam isn't the man but those two interceptions occurred because he was hit when he threw the ball.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=nonniey;1355767]Sam isn't the man but those two interceptions occurred because he was hit when he threw the ball.[/quote]


He was only playing in his first full season in a insanely pass happy offense with a below average offensive line.....I think Sam's the guy and the offense needs to be constructed around him so he can truly settle in.....but there's no guarantee the new GM and HC rolls with him.
.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1355791]He was only playing in his first full season in a insanely pass happy offense with a below average offensive line.....[B]I think Sam's the guy[/B] and the offense needs to be constructed around him so he can truly settle in.....but there's no guarantee the new GM and HC rolls with him.
.[/quote]

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

This team probably wins 4-6 more games if not for the colossal collapse on the defensive side this year. Sam's not going anywhere, but it would be tough to pass on one of the top 2 QBs in the draft. If I were a betting man, I would bet that the new regime drafts CW, DM, or JD. Sam & one of them battle it out for QB1.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

I'd say it was nailed on we'll take a QB with our 1st pick. I mean, they might get a trade offer to consider, but the new guys can't be the idiots RR etc. have been in assessing value and available talent. So it would have to be a fantastic offer to give up what looks likely to be the #2 overall. And if it is a fantastic offer and they believe it means they can load up the roster in year 1 around Howell, I'm good with that too. If nothing else, what the 49ers have shown this owner first hand is how to use the draft, trades and FA wisely to build a solid roster (with just the Lance debacle as a black mark). Just like the Ravens, the organisation Harris espouses he wants to emulate. Lets hope he gets his wish.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1355795]Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

This team probably wins 4-6 more games if not for the colossal collapse on the defensive side this year. Sam's not going anywhere, but it would be tough to pass on one of the top 2 QBs in the draft. If I were a betting man, I would bet that the new regime drafts CW, DM, or JD. Sam & one of them battle it out for QB1.[/quote]

If you are picking a QB that high there will be no battle. Howell will be the backup, but I wonder whether he will be a trade chip at the deadline if a contending team loses its QB early in the season and gets desperate.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

Unless it was a really good offer that would make little sense. We know Howell is capable, even if he only ever ends up a backup. He's very cheap and probably warrants extending then trading down the line when his trade value is possibly higher. And he's tough; ideal quality in a backup.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1355745]Trouble is it seems the coaches ( and media and fans) have been pounding the idea of not taking sacks into Howell that his play took a no dive as soon as he gave into that idea[/quote]

I have to agree, Pritchard has not done Howell any favors. It shouldn't be too hard to teach a QB with Sam's arm strength to turn and throw the ball out of bounds and one yard from the LOS. Especially within 1 second and from shotgun

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1355801]I'd say it was nailed on we'll take a QB with our 1st pick. I mean, they might get a trade offer to consider, but the new guys can't be the idiots RR etc. have been in assessing value and available talent. So it would have to be a fantastic offer to give up what looks likely to be the #2 overall. And if it is a fantastic offer and they believe it means they can load up the roster in year 1 around Howell, I'm good with that too. If nothing else, what the 49ers have shown this owner first hand is how to use the draft, trades and FA wisely to build a solid roster (with just the Lance debacle as a black mark). Just like the Ravens, the organisation Harris espouses he wants to emulate. Lets hope he gets his wish.[/quote]

It is very likely that whoever will be GM does not view QB1 currently on the roster. Right now there are a lot of options including rolling with Sam and they all give me hope.
Draft a top QB prospect
If they have a willing trade partner, trade back and still get a guy you like later in the first with additional draft capitol
or trade back with a willing trade partner take a flier on a late round QB and roll the dice again as we build roster through the draft.

We could have the same record next year as we did this year but the team and season could be enjoyable to watch.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1355795]Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

This team probably wins 4-6 more games if not for the colossal collapse on the defensive side this year. Sam's not going anywhere, but it would be tough to pass on one of the top 2 QBs in the draft. If I were a betting man, I would bet that the new regime drafts CW, DM, or JD. Sam & one of them battle it out for QB1.[/quote]

Agreed

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1355802][B]If you are picking a QB that high there will be no battle.[/B] Howell will be the backup, but I wonder whether he will be a trade chip at the deadline if a contending team loses its QB early in the season and gets desperate.[/quote]

I understand that is often the case, but I don't think it should matter where you are drafted. You should still have to come in and win the job. It would be dereliction of duty to name someone a starter - at any position - if he hasn't proven he is the better player...no matter where he was drafted. I hope we get a GM & HC who think the same way. Put the best players on the field.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

Something positive, rare at the moment

[quote]PFF Commanders -

Sam Cosmi is the highest-graded offensive player in the NFL since week 13 (92.0)

He has allowed 0 sacks and just 1 QB pressure[/quote]

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1355795]Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

This team probably wins 4-6 more games if not for the colossal collapse on the defensive side this year. Sam's not going anywhere, but it would be tough to pass on one of the top 2 QBs in the draft. If I were a betting man, I would bet that the new regime drafts CW, DM, or JD. Sam & one of them battle it out for QB1.[/quote]

We're on the same page, I had the same thought. New regime drafts a new qb, he dukes it out with Sam over the summer and if by some miracle Sam gets over his issues we start Sam until the flame dies again. If new kid wins the job Sam gets a few years to ride the bench. Ideal way to start with a new staff.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1355867]Something positive, rare at the moment[/quote]

We have 1 keeper on the Oline. That's better than it was looking earlier. Glad he is playing well. Hopefully we can keep him around.

Now we just need 4 more starters LOL. Although I think Stromberg can start next year at C/G. But still need to add lots of beef up front.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1355867]Something positive, rare at the moment[/quote]

Hes been the best player on this team all yr

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1355870]We have 1 keeper on the Oline. That's better than it was looking earlier. Glad he is playing well. Hopefully we can keep him around.

Now we just need 4 more starters LOL. Although I think Stromberg can start next year at C/G. But still need to add lots of beef up front.[/quote]

I was actually thinking that if we do draft a young QB it might be better if the main focus would be finding a good quality veteran Centre in free agency, if such a thing exists.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1355867]Something positive, rare at the moment[/quote]


He's quite good.
.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

Lucas has been well rated, I'd definitely say Cosmi, Stromberg and Lucas should be retained. I'd consider Leno but only on a team friendly deal. Everyone else should be gone or, at best, fighting for a place down the depth. We need 2 tackles and a guard in FA or the draft and as Edmund says, probably a veteran centre is a good idea. Isn't Kelce an FA this spring?...

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1355940]Lucas has been well rated, I'd definitely say Cosmi, Stromberg and Lucas should be retained. I'd consider Leno but only on a team friendly deal. Everyone else should be gone or, at best, fighting for a place down the depth. We need 2 tackles and a guard in FA or the draft and as Edmund says, probably a veteran centre is a good idea. Isn't Kelce an FA this spring?...[/quote]

Leno is under contract for one more year. I wonder if he could swing over to RT? Wylie needs to be moved back to G.

Rookie/Wylie or Cosmi/Stromberg/Cosmi or Wylie/Leno

Lucas is definitely valuable, hopefully they can bring him back on a solid deal.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if the new FO released Wylie and just ate the 7.8m dollar cap hit this year. We have 96 million. It would be a small chunk of that.

[url]https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-commanders/andrew-wylie-22571/[/url]

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1355802]If you are picking a QB that high there will be no battle. Howell will be the backup, but I wonder whether he will be a trade chip at the deadline if a contending team loses its QB early in the season and gets desperate.[/quote]

This.

A top pick is coming in as the #1 and unless he's a total flop right off the bat there will be no battle.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=MTK;1355953]This.

A top pick is coming in as the #1 and unless he's a total flop right off the bat there will be no battle.[/quote]

Assuming we pick a QB in the 1st round and they don't move on from Sam, I don't see the harm in having them "battle" it out. I think it would be dumb if you didn't go that route. You have two QBs on rookie contracts for the next two years. Throw them out there and see who runs the offense better. With Sam having a year under his belt seeing NFL defenses, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that any of the QBs who will be drafted in Round 1 are going to be better than he is.

We want the best players on the field.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

Battle for what? Sam has shown why he was a 5th rounder, a lot of holes in his game.

If you draft someone high you're committing to that player and have to get him ready, meaning he needs 90% of the offseason snaps. Practice time is so limited as it is, there's no opportunity to have guys splitting time.

Sorry but Sam isn't going to get a realistic chance of starting unless it's due to injury or the new guy is a total miss from the jump.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1355963]Assuming we pick a QB in the 1st round and they don't move on from Sam, I don't see the harm in having them "battle" it out. I think it would be dumb if you didn't go that route. You have two QBs on rookie contracts for the next two years. Throw them out there and see who runs the offense better. With Sam having a year under his belt seeing NFL defenses, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that any of the QBs who will be drafted in Round 1 are going to be better than he is.

We want the best players on the field.[/QUOTE]


Plus there is something to be said for letting rookie QBs breathe the NFL air for a few minutes before throwing them into the fire. We have a history of being impatient with so-called can’t-miss prospects that get overwhelmed, gun-shy, and injured before finding their NFL legs.


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Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

I hope we can bring Brissett back, but I doubt that's in the cards. If anything, I'd start him next year, until the rookie is ready (if not ready week 1).

We need to try to win next year. Brissett would give us our best chance as of now, unless the rookie comes in and already looks the part. Nothing wrong with a guy sitting. Although it doesn't seem to happen much anymore.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

I think JB is going to be looking for a chance to start somewhere... it won't be here if we take someone at the top of the draft. A top 5 pick isn't going to sit.

What you guys are saying about letting the best man win or letting a rookie sit and learn sounds great in theory, it's just not reality these days.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=MTK;1355965]Battle for what? Sam has shown why he was a 5th rounder, a lot of holes in his game.

If you draft someone high you're committing to that player and have to get him ready, meaning he needs 90% of the offseason snaps. Practice time is so limited as it is, there's no opportunity to have guys splitting time.

Sorry but Sam isn't going to get a realistic chance of starting unless it's due to injury or the new guy is a total miss from the jump.[/quote]

Agree to disagree.

Sam has shown promise, and he has shown that he needs work. You'll likely get the same results (if you're lucky) with whoever you draft in Round 1, assuming that's the way they go.

Battle for QB1. Practice time is limited, but that doesn't mean the Coaching staff can't evaluate both QBs and make a determination who is better suited to run the offense in game 1 of the 2024 season.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=MTK;1355968]I think JB is going to be looking for a chance to start somewhere... it won't be here if we take someone at the top of the draft. A top 5 pick isn't going to sit.

What you guys are saying about letting the best man win or letting a rookie sit and learn sounds great in theory, it's just not reality these days.[/quote]

Yeah, I don't see him back either. Wishful thinking. If he's gone we're going to need to draft 2 QB's or sign a different veteran and a rookie.

And yeah, it's not reality. Doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done, but just doesn't seem to happen nowadays.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1355969]Agree to disagree.

Sam has shown promise, and he has shown that he needs work. You'll likely get the same results (if you're lucky) with whoever you draft in Round 1, assuming that's the way they go.

Battle for QB1. Practice time is limited, but that doesn't mean the Coaching staff can't evaluate both QBs and make a determination who is better suited to run the offense in game 1 of the 2024 season.[/quote]

New GM and a new staff will have no loyalties to Sam.

They're going to be all in on getting their guy up to speed asap.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=MTK;1355971][B]New GM and a new staff will have no loyalties to Sam[/B].

They're going to be all in on getting their guy up to speed asap.[/quote]

No, probably not. But he is under contract. And he is in the top 15 in the NFL most QB stats. Hasn't translated into a lot of wins, but that has been a team effort all year. He also leads the NFL in interceptions, but he's thrown them at about the same clip as Josh Allen.

New GM and a new staff will have loyalties to putting the best players on the field. Just because you drafted a QB in the top 10 doesn't mean he is going to give you the best chance of winning game 1. See Trey Lance.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

the sam apologist on here just blow my mind

We have given Sam a season, he couldn't even stay starting on this current team

If we pass up a chance to draft a top end QB1 and that guy becomes a franchise QB and we are still holding the bag on Sam, that is how you set a franchise back a few years

the only way i am rolling with sam next year is if we had a pick that was say 10 or higher and we have to trade a bunch to try to get a potential top QB; then i say risk/ reward lets give sam one more season with some more tools

but we are sitting at 2 or 3 with basically the pick of the litter; good luck at the lube Sam

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

Assuming he starts this weekend a new GM/HC will have 18 games of tape to evaluate Sam, I think they'll be coming in with a pretty good idea of who he is.

If Sam is the best option come week 1, that will be a pretty big red flag on the talent evaluation process of whoever we take in the first round and not a good start to the new regime.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

The conversation is mind-numbing. There are plenty of examples of 'top 10 drafted QBs' who didn't have a good 1st year, for various reasons...sometimes he's just not very good year 1.

The red flag for me would be the new regime - hell or high water - insisting on starting their highly drafted QB if he doesn't give the team the best chance to win in week 1. Doesn't mean he won't turn into Joe Montana down the road, but to suggest that player MUST start week 1 because of where he was drafted is dumb, and not a good way for the new regime to get buy-in from the rest of the roster.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1355989]The conversation is mind-numbing. There are plenty of examples of 'top 10 drafted QBs' who didn't have a good 1st year, for various reasons...sometimes he's just not very good year 1.

The red flag for me would be the new regime - hell or high water - insisting on starting their highly drafted QB if he doesn't give the team the best chance to win in week 1. Doesn't mean he won't turn into Joe Montana down the road, but to suggest that player MUST start week 1 because of where he was drafted is dumb, and not a good way for the new regime to get buy-in from the rest of the roster.[/quote]

Welcome to the NFL, just how it works. A high first rounder is going to get chances that a 5th rounder won't. Fair or not it's how things work.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

If we a draft a QB in first rd they are getting majority of first team snaps. You don't invest that capital and not try to make it grow. Sam will have to get his own QB coach in the offseason to get additional reps, sometimes you need to invest in yourself.

Re: Forty whiners vs lackeymanders
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1356002]If we a draft a QB in first rd they are getting majority of first team snaps. [B]You don't invest that capital and not try to make it grow.[/B] Sam will have to get his own QB coach in the offseason to get additional reps, sometimes you need to invest in yourself.[/quote]

I agree with that.

As has been said, the new regime will have something like 18 games to have evaluated Sam. It shouldn't take long for them to determine whether the new guy (if they draft a QB) will provide the team a better chance of winning.

For investment purposes, you definitely hope he does.