Re: Where are the apologies?
 

I have one question in all this...I don't know if it's the playcalling or Brunell but I was watching Brunells head on alot of plays and just about every one he went straight to the back coming out of the backfield? I highly doubt that is his first read every play but sure enough it looked like that was the first place he looked? Anyone else notice this or am I crazy? If it takes being down with no time for Brunell to look down field I'm very disappointed in him as a starter. If I'm alone in this and all wrong I apologize.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

I accept your apology. You are wrong.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

no, you're not wrong. If Brunell sees or senses a big blitz coming (which they always show, like Williams does) he tends to check down super quick to the safety valves. its the safe play, but doesn't get alot of yards. reinforces the notion of him playing "dink/dunk".

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=PFunk26]I have one question in all this...I don't know if it's the playcalling or Brunell but I was watching Brunells head on alot of plays and just about every one he went straight to the back coming out of the backfield? I highly doubt that is his first read every play but sure enough it looked like that was the first place he looked? Anyone else notice this or am I crazy? If it takes being down with no time for Brunell to look down field I'm very disappointed in him as a starter. If I'm alone in this and all wrong I apologize.[/QUOTE]


You have to wonder if the back is the first option. Because Ramsey did the same thing. Ive been complaining about this since the begining of last year. The QBs arent as bad as they look, most people here have to agree with that. But after the snap the first thing they try to do is hit the back, or throw a screen. Which is even more incentive for the defense to keep 8 in the box. We have to throw downfield a lot more just to get the respect of the defense, and with Moss' speed ya never know.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]Plus Patrick would have never had us in that desperate situation...and Portis would have run for 150 yards cause the defense would have had to play back.[/QUOTE]

Or it could have been like the last time we played Dallas and we barely clung to a lead until the final seconds while Ramsey had about 160 yards passing, 1 TD, 2 INTS and Portis had 10 carries for 32 yards. You just never know

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

we should do a poll on whether we can refer to last year or not


.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]we should do a poll on whether we can refer to last year or not.[/QUOTE]

I think we can

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

You can refer to whatever you want. Just because I may not agree with all the second guessing and nitpicking doesn't mean it's not allowed. I'm just disagreeing with your view, just like what goes on here all the time.

There are no hard "rules", you should know that by now, illdefined.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]all that statement meant was that he has had the crucial 30yd scrambles to win games before (i swear you guys forget faster than Eagles fans) only he would have risked his body (as he does too often) instead of sliding 2yds short of the first down.[/QUOTE]

Yes exactly there was the 1st down within 2 yards and he slides down on his back... hell he ran that far...i'm not saying he's rock cartright...but i guarantee u he would have tried for those 2 extra yards and u are calling him immoble well i've seen him do it... be fair to the man...

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]Yes exactly there was the 1st down within 2 yards and he slides down on his back... hell he ran that far...i'm not saying he's rock cartright...but i guarantee u he would have tried for those 2 extra yards and u are calling him immoble well i've seen him do it... be fair to the man...[/QUOTE]

I know I only watched the replays a few dozen times, but I saw him end up on his stomach, he didn't slide.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

In Brunell's defense, it is far wiser for a quarterback to slide. I don't think a quarterback should try to pound out the extra yards. Quarterbacks are far too valuable to a franchise to risk a major injury for 1 extra yard.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

I wonder what the sentiment would have been had Brunell tried for those extra two yards and gotten rocked and fumbled the ball.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

cool cool.

was just making sure because last year seems to matter when it comes to Ramsey, just not Brunell.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

I think no matter what.... i will say those were two of the best passes i have even seen in my life !! And he does deserve all the credit in the world for that...

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]I think no matter what.... i will say those were two of the best passes i have even seen in my life !! And he does deserve all the credit in the world for that...[/QUOTE]


After seeing the replay of the 70 yarder, more than a few times, if you get the right angle you will see Brunell actually under threw that ball, in the highlight you can see Moss slowing up, but it worked, Moss is so smooth it's very hard to notice full speed.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]After seeing the replay of the 70 yarder, more than a few times, if you get the right angle you will see Brunell actually under threw that ball, in the highlight you can see Moss slowing up, but it worked, Moss is so smooth it's very hard to notice full speed.[/QUOTE]

So are you saying it wasn't a good throw then? Looked pretty good to me. Can't understand why it's so hard for you to give Brunell some credit.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]So are you saying it wasn't a good throw then? Looked pretty good to me. Can't understand why it's so hard for you to give Brunell some credit.[/QUOTE]


I did say it worked didn't I? Pointing out an observation, that perhaps you didn't pick up on, which if you watch the replay you will see that I am right, is uncontionable? Perhaps if you weren't looking for anything and everything to sing the praises of your beloved Brunell, you wouldn't be so quick to have to defend him when someone doesn't get on their knees and worship the guy, or merely points out the fact that he's not perfect, or didn't make a perfect throw as some have eluded to. Every throw that a QB makes doesn't have to be perfect so long as it works.

Pointing out that a ball was underthrown is a big deal to you?

I didn't say it was a lucky catch, or throw.

I give him all the credit in the world, how he made that 25 yard run with your head stuck so far up his arse is a feet unmatched in modern times.




OK I shouldn't have made that last comment, but I couldn't resist, I am SORRY TAF! :biggthump

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]So are you saying it wasn't a good throw then? Looked pretty good to me. Can't understand why it's so hard for you to give Brunell some credit.[/QUOTE]


TAFKAS, haven't you learned by now that if some people don't have something to complain about, they can't get through life. It's a no-win situation..no sense in arguing with them. :food-smil

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

Offiss, that original post of yours (which I think you have in some other thread), I interpreted as you basically saying "in spite of Brunell, Moss turned it into a catch and touchdown"

If I misunderstood you, then sorry

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Offiss, that original post of yours (which I think you have in some other thread), I interpreted as you basically saying "in spite of Brunell, Moss turned it into a catch and touchdown"

If I misunderstood you, then sorry[/QUOTE]


I am not sure which post but I never said that in spite of Brunell on that play, or any part of the game, I gave him all the credit in the world in the last 4 minutes, but did say in one form or another that basically Brunell stunk the joint up until the last 4 minutes, I didn't look at that play as Moss bailing Brunell out, Brunell made the play PERIOD! I merely stated that he underthrew the ball, but Moss is so smooth out there to watch at full speed you really can't tell, but in the highlights you can see him slow up, so yes it looked like a perfect throw to me when I first saw it, but when I had a chance to really look at it you could see it was underthrown that's it! Probably more of a compliment to how fast Moss really is, because he beat the boy's coverage worse than it actually looked, it's not a bad thing just an observation.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

If you watch the replay of the 1st TD pass you can see Brunell actually overthrows Moss and he has to accelerate to catch up to it, actually it's really cool to see how much ground he covers so quickly. Moss has some serious jets.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

In Brunell's defense the receivers were not open at all in the first 3 qtrs. They just were not getting open. Whether that's poor route running or poor QB play or even good D by the Cowboys. There was only one other opportunity to hit a big play in the game and I believe Brunell was sacked. Alot of work to do with this offense, but it is showing some signs of life with those late TD's.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

Someone here said I started this thread as a "troll". Thank you for reading my mind - - and getting it wrong.

I started this thread because I actually thought that some of the people who had spent an entire week crabbing at the coaching staff might - - MIGHT - - take some of the joy that comes from the kind of win that happened on Monday night and turn it into some contrition. Not only was I wrong about that, I now have the honor of having people declare what my motives were in starting this thread. Since I am POSITIVE that you don't know why I started the thread, then maybe I should take your other declarations here with a grain of salt?

And just to remand the discussion to an issue in the original post, lots of people here started threads and contributed to threads saying in no uncertain terms that the Redskins' players would never trust Joe Gibbs ever again. Should I go and find those threads and do some quoting here? Well, if that's the way the team will hang in and play hard to the end for a coach that they won't trust as far as I can throw a piano - with one hand - then let's find some other reasons for them not to trust him.

I don't read players' minds; so I don't know if they trust Joe Gibbs or not. I don't really care either. Here's what I know. They were down on Monday night, and most teams in that circumstance would have rolled over and played dead for the final 5 minutes of the game. But this team didn't. So maybe they "respect" Joe Gibbs even if they can't possibly "trust him".

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Someone here said I started this thread as a "troll". Thank you for reading my mind - - and getting it wrong.

I started this thread because I actually thought that some of the people who had spent an entire week crabbing at the coaching staff might - - MIGHT - - take some of the joy that comes from the kind of win that happened on Monday night and turn it into some contrition. Not only was I wrong about that, I now have the honor of having people declare what my motives were in starting this thread. Since I am POSITIVE that you don't know why I started the thread, then maybe I should take your other declarations here with a grain of salt?

And just to remand the discussion to an issue in the original post, lots of people here started threads and contributed to threads saying in no uncertain terms that the Redskins' players would never trust Joe Gibbs ever again. Should I go and find those threads and do some quoting here? Well, if that's the way the team will hang in and play hard to the end for a coach that they won't trust as far as I can throw a piano - with one hand - then let's find some other reasons for them not to trust him.

I don't read players' minds; so I don't know if they trust Joe Gibbs or not. I don't really care either. Here's what I know. They were down on Monday night, and most teams in that circumstance would have rolled over and played dead for the final 5 minutes of the game. But this team didn't. So maybe they "respect" Joe Gibbs even if they can't possibly "trust him".

[QUOTE]I just got home from a trip - - had to watch the game in a hotel bar last night. I fully expected to see at least three or four threads in here full of apologies from people who had accused Joe Gibbs of being a lying weasel and a backstabbing ne'er-do-well, but I can't seem to find them. OK, you may still not like the way he handled the situation, but he got it right.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]


Asking for apologies, and attempting to say that Gibbs was right with this decision regardless of what happened the first 56 minutes, you act as if that win solves all our problems on offense? I couldn't be more solidified after that game with my thought about the switch, regardless of how it was handled.

I even said that I had a feeling we were going to win not based upon what I believed to be Brunell's ability to lead us, but based on all the controversy, and frustration, coming into this game with the boy's would culminate into a victory, I felt we would probably get a defensive TD from Bledsoe [which didn't happen] but I just had a feeling something unusual would happen to lead us to victory, and it did, Brunell played QB for 4 minutes. And yes I also put my money where my mouth was on that prediction, and put 200.00 on the skins to win out right forgoing the points, getting 2-1 on my money.

But if you think you started this thread not trying to antagonize others, you may want to re read your own post.

I was more than happy to lay back and enjoy this week until you couldn't leave well enough alone SC. :nono:

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

I never said i read your mind or that I knew your intentions behind writing that post, and frankly i don't care. If you don't think it contains implicit antagonism then maybe you should re-read it.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

people are so focused on being 'right' that they refuse to realize we were 1 tipped ball away from being just as abysmal as last year. like we all feared.

we're all ecstatic it didn't go that way this once, but no one can deny the spectre of last year was there and it was STRONG. if you want to hear apologies, ask the people who questioned the Moss/Coles trade. oop, don't think there were any.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

Gentlemen:

I knew with certainty that some people would be angry with my original posting. I hoped that others might be able to look back on all the "can anyone trust Joe Gibbs now" threads and wonder if the things they saw in the Monday night game might run counter to the assertions made there.

Obviously, not many folks here can or want to do that. That's their choice not mine.

Does winning on Monday night cure all the offensive woes of the team? Of course not. All you had to do was watch the first 55 minutes of Monday night's game to know that this team still needs a lot of improvement on that side of the ball. But winning is what the games are about. Getting that win is far more important than any sidebar issue of player/coach interactions or anything of that ilk.

As I said in a post about 3 months ago when Patrick Ramsey was the #1 QB and it looked as if he would stay there for the year, he needed to improve in about five or six areas of the game - - unless of course the Redskins won the NFC East. If the Redskins win the NFC East, then it will not matter if they have the 24th rated offense or their QB has the lowest rating of any division-winning QB since they kept that stat. Because the bottom line is winning. Stats are much more important to losers than they are to winners.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

Speed Kills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hail Mr Moss

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]
I knew with certainty that some people would be angry with my original posting. I hoped that others might be able to look back on all the "can anyone trust Joe Gibbs now" threads and wonder if the things they saw in the Monday night game might run counter to the assertions made there.[/QUOTE]

what things did you see that ran counter to what assertions?

only thing i can think of is Brunell having a noodle-arm, but i still saw enough of the the underthrown short passes i expected to see, whatever the cause.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]
Obviously, not many folks here can or want to do that. That's their choice not mine.
Because the [B]bottom line is winning.[/B] [B]Stats are much more important to losers [/B] than they are to winners.[/QUOTE]


No truer words have been spoken than what you have just said SC. You are exactly right! :food-smil

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

The bottom line most [i]definitely[/i] is winning.

That is why I thought the mood might be different around here this week, but 5 minutes after the game on Monday we had people pulling out the "what if..." or the "yeah but..." crap.

Winning is the only thing that matters, anybody who thinks differently is flat wrong.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]The bottom line most [i]definitely[/i] is winning.

That is why I thought the mood might be different around here this week, but 5 minutes after the game on Monday we had people pulling out the "what if..." or the "yeah but..." crap.

Winning is the only thing that matters, anybody who thinks differently is flat wrong.[/QUOTE]

Matty,

That is what was always told to us when we tried to take away something positive from a game in which we lost. Now that it looks like maybe we could possibly be starting to turn the corner, suddenly winning isn't enough. I just don't understand it. We didn't win every game in our glory years by 5 TDs. We played some very tight ball games. We have been trying to find something positive to build on, and now that we have some positives to work with...it just isn't enough. Sure, I know we're only 2-0, but that's the best start we have had in quite a long while. That coupled with the fact that our team, looking about as bad as it possibly could, never gave up and explode Monday night to beat the Cowboys. That was huge for us. Yeah it was the last 4 minutes of the game, but those last four minutes gave us something to be proud of and something to hang our hat on. Certainly we have loads of work to do.....nobody has denied that. But it's turning points like the one against that Cowboys, that can turn a season around (see Lavar Arrington in 2001.)

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]The bottom line most [i]definitely[/i] is winning.

That is why I thought the mood might be different around here this week, but 5 minutes after the game on Monday we had people pulling out the "what if..." or the "yeah but..." crap.

Winning is the only thing that matters, anybody who thinks differently is flat wrong.[/QUOTE]


I completely agree, and reveled in the win as much as everyone else, however we CAN NOT win games like we did week in and week out. There has to be offensive production earlier on in the games. No one can argue that, period. Its too easy to stop desparation. Fate was just on our side this time, and Roy Williams is a bitch.

So even with the win, and all the jubilation after the fact, there are still huge questions that come up when trying to asess our team. Mainly offense and the passing game, because they were rushing all night because they didnt have to play the deep ball.

Hopefully we realized in those final few minutes that plays can be made even with the other team expecting them (in the passing game) and take some earlier shots to open up some lanes for portis.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Matty,

. Sure, I know we're only 2-0, but that's the best start we have had in quite a long while. [/QUOTE]

In 2003 we started 3-0 after beating the jets, falcons and patriots.


and finished 5-11

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

Actually I was wrong! However you were wrong as well. We started 2-0, then lost to the Giants, beat the Patriots, then it pretty much went down hill from there.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

this has always been about winning.

who doesn't agree that if we keep playing EXACTLY like we did on monday night ("improved" Brunell with miracle 4th quarter passes and all) against other teams, the chances of winning are real LOW?

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]The bottom line most [i]definitely[/i] is winning.

That is why I thought the mood might be different around here this week, but 5 minutes after the game on Monday we had people pulling out the "what if..." or the "yeah but..." crap.

Winning is the only thing that matters, anybody who thinks differently is flat wrong.[/QUOTE]

actually no, everyone here was ecstatic and pretty much held their doubts in check in deference to the awesome win.

then people pulled out the "Where are the apologies?"
check back.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]actually no, everyone here was ecstatic and pretty much held their doubts in check in deference to the awesome win.

then people pulled out the "Where are the apologies?"
check back.[/QUOTE]

I'm not gonna name names, but trust me, there were a few people [i]immediately[/i] after the game that went right to the yeah we won but what about the first 56 minutes of the game.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'm not gonna name names, but trust me, there were a few people [i]immediately[/i] after the game that went right to the yeah we won but what about the first 56 minutes of the game.[/QUOTE]

Well I may have mentioned it under my breath, because I spent over 2 hours in dismay over what the hell I was watching on offense. I said we had questions. But it just feels like what I'm hearing, is basically that if you didn't agree with the decision to bench Ramsey, then you shouldn't be enjoying this win, because you were wrong, or that there should be no more questions because we got a huge win. Thats rediculous and demanding apologies is absurd. Its arrogant, offensive, and wayyyy too premature.

Re: Where are the apologies?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'm not gonna name names, but trust me, there were a few people [i]immediately[/i] after the game that went right to the yeah we won but what about the first 56 minutes of the game.[/QUOTE]

there were maybe some comments, but they're certainly weren't any *threads* disparaging Brunell right after that great win. not before the explicit 'apology seeking'. in fact the only other thread after the win that expressed doubts was 'Real State of the Redskins' which was pretty objective i thought. unless you guys can honestly say you have no doubts about our offense.... :rolleyes: