Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;904851]Arbitration is a process outlined in the CBA, and the CBA is involved only because Goodell wanted to modify the salary cap.

If he had taken away draft picks, arbitration wouldn't be a option. They would have to sue - and they won't do that.[/quote]

Sure, but just like I said before, it's a forest-for-the-trees situation and if the neutral party has any sense, we win.

Details be damned, there is just too much evidence in our favor. Goodell's power has no bearing when we go to arbitration. The arbitrator makes all decisions regardless of NFLPA/Goodell's power.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=biffle;904845]Not going to keep repeating myself, but he has no right to impose his own salary cap or to punish teams for not going along with it.

You can use the "sole discretion" line all you want but he still has to treat al parties fairly or they can seek relief from the court. Every league has been taken to court for doing things that were supposedly in the commish's "sole discretion". The Starcaps case comes immediately to mind. It's certainly within the commisioner's discretion to implement drug suspensions, yet he had to go to court and fight it out on that one for 2 years.[/quote]

He never tried to impose his own salary cap in an uncapped year.

There's a difference between players fighting a league for the right to impose discipline on them and league members suing themselves because they don't like how a Commissioner they appointed used they authority they gave him, and that 29 other members agreed with.

And, they can always attempt to sue the League, but they won't because that would be stupid for everybody involved. And they would have to prove that the Commissioner abused authority that they granted him sole discretion to apply.

If every team took a league to court for every bit of discipline they thought unfair, leagues wouldn't exist. At some point, Snyder will say, "I like making 9 figures and trying to win football games better than I like spending years in court and getting screwed by the League every way possible forever."

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;904854]Sure, but just like I said before, it's a forest-for-the-trees situation and if the neutral party has any sense, we win.

Details be damned, there is just too much evidence in our favor. Goodell's power has no bearing when we go to arbitration. The arbitrator makes all decisions regardless of NFLPA/Goodell's power.[/quote]

And even if the arbitrator says, "you can't modify the CBA even though you followed the correct procedure for modifying the CBA" and the salary cap is restored, the Commissioner could still turn around and take away draft picks.

Or he could take a closer look at Gregg Williams' time with the 'Skins and decide they should lose a draft pick for that.

Or he could come up with something else and take draft picks away for that too.

[QUOTE=HoopheadVII;904840]Agree, but doubt legal proceedings will happen. Better to take this licking and move on, imo.

Best hope is that they negotiate a reduced penalty in order to make this go away quickly and keep any dirty laundry private. NFLPA is entitled to discovery on any documents produced for this arbitration. With 29 owners behind him, Goodell is going to win this, but may not want to drag out a fight.[/QUOTE]

I really don't see why its better to take this licking. It seems like you are parrotting Mara's it could have been worse. But, its not and at this point Goodell is not going to strip either team of draft picks, which certainly would have had the possibility of being very ugly had he chosen that route. Both sides are going to arbitration and its possible the skins get some redress. At this point they have nothing to lose.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;904855]He never tried to impose his own salary cap in an uncapped year.

There's a difference between players fighting a league for the right to impose discipline on them and league members suing themselves because they don't like how a Commissioner they appointed used they authority they gave him, and that 29 other members agreed with.

And, they can always attempt to sue the League, but they won't because that would be stupid for everybody involved. And they would have to prove that the Commissioner abused authority that they granted him sole discretion to apply.

If every team took a league to court for every bit of discipline they thought unfair, leagues wouldn't exist. At some point, Snyder will say, "I like making 9 figures and trying to win football games better than I like spending years in court and getting screwed by the League every way possible forever."[/quote]

If he's telling teams they can't spend money the way the CBA allows, then yes he's trying to overrule the CBA and impose his own version of the salary cap.

And I was providing an example of the league going to court over something that Goodell supposedly had the "sole discretion" to decide. That power isn't any where near as absolute as you try to make it sound.

[QUOTE=HoopheadVII;904852]In this case, the Supreme Court of Football has 32 members and needs 24 votes to make a decision.[/QUOTE]

No IN THIS case the supreme court is an arbitrator. As you pointed out had Goodelll taken picks then we either sue or drop it he didn't in THIS case. Now an arbitrator will weigh in

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;904857]And even if the arbitrator says, "you can't modify the CBA even though you followed the correct procedure for modifying the CBA" and the salary cap is restored, the Commissioner could still turn around and take away draft picks.

Or he could take a closer look at Gregg Williams' time with the 'Skins and decide they should lose a draft pick for that.

Or he could come up with something else and take draft picks away for that too.[/quote]

Or he could decide to not do anything because then it would definitly be an arguement the Skins were being singled out, not that they don't have the arguement now since others who spent money didn't get punished and others who failed to meet the CAP floor didn't get punished.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;904857]And even if the arbitrator says, "you can't modify the CBA even though you followed the correct procedure for modifying the CBA" and the salary cap is restored, the Commissioner could still turn around and take away draft picks.

Or he could take a closer look at Gregg Williams' time with the 'Skins and decide they should lose a draft pick for that.

Or he could come up with something else and take draft picks away for that too.[/quote]

Isn't that what you were saying earlier about not wanting to get into a legal battle?

If THAT happens, then ALL hell breaks lose. How far do you go back? Just the Skins? If so, then aren't you obviously singling them out without regard to Buffalo, Tennessee, etc. (very similar to the cap situation) That is a gigantic can of worms that I don't think even Goodell is prepared to open.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;904858]I really don't see why its better to take this licking. It seems like you are parrotting Mara's it could have been worse. But, its not and at this point Goodell is not going to strip either team of draft picks, which certainly would have had the possibility of being very ugly had he chosen that route. Both sides are going to arbitration and its possible the skins get some redress. At this point they have nothing to lose.[/quote]

I think they should go to arbitration and hope for the best. I was saying that if they lose in arbitration or win in arbitration but then get handed a different penalty, they should take it rather than suing the league in court.

[QUOTE=HoopheadVII;904857]And even if the arbitrator says, "you can't modify the CBA even though you followed the correct procedure for modifying the CBA" and the salary cap is restored, the Commissioner could still turn around and take away draft picks.

Or he could take a closer look at Gregg Williams' time with the 'Skins and decide they should lose a draft pick for that.

Or he could come up with something else and take draft picks away for that too.[/QUOTE]

Maybe so but that would be seen as vindictive and I don't believe the teams will necessarily line up for that. The skins and cowboys bring alot to the table that they also could use in that type of struggle.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[url=http://deadspin.com/5897231/why-cant-roger-goodell-go-one-day-without-lying?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+deadspin%2Fexcerpts+%28Deadspin+excerpts%29]Why Can't Roger Goodell Go One Day Without Lying?[/url]

[QUOTE=HoopheadVII;904863]I think they should go to arbitration and hope for the best. I was saying that if they lose in arbitration or win in arbitration but then get handed a different penalty, they should take it rather than suing the league in court.[/QUOTE]

Well this I agree with, but it had seemed like you were saying that the arbitrator could not overrule the league.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=biffle;904859]If he's telling teams they can't spend money the way the CBA allows, then yes he's trying to overrule the CBA and impose his own version of the salary cap.

And I was providing an example of the league going to court over something that Goodell supposedly had the "sole discretion" to decide. That power isn't any where near as absolute as you try to make it sound.[/quote]

Which example? The drug testing?

If the NFLPA had fought this, they would have walked away and gone straight to draft picks before announcing it.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;904857]And even if the arbitrator says, "you can't modify the CBA even though you followed the correct procedure for modifying the CBA" and the salary cap is restored, the Commissioner could still turn around and take away draft picks.

Or he could take a closer look at Gregg Williams' time with the 'Skins and decide they should lose a draft pick for that.

Or he [I][B]could come up with something else[/B][/I] and take draft picks away for that too.[/quote]

And this is the basis of why MANY people, fans and media included, thinks this cannot stand.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[url=http://deadspin.com/5896817/its-good-that-the-nfl-is-punishing-washington-and-dallas-for-breaking-no-rules]It's Good That The NFL Is Punishing Washington And Dallas For Breaking No Rules[/url]

His last comment is exactly how I feel now.