Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;374716]Let's just clear this up:

"Then there was Jacoby (6-6, 314), whom Gibbs initially thought was a defensive player. "When I came in here, signed as a free agent, I sat down to talk with coach Gibbs," said Jacoby. "It was his first year here, and he was going off for about 20 minutes how great an opportunity I would have to make the team as a defensive lineman. So as a young guy, a kid out of college, I didn't want to say anything, so I didn't. I left things at that, walked out of the room, went over to the general manager's office and signed a two-year contract. From what I heard, he was yelling at Bugel later when he found out I was an offensive lineman."

"We tried to run him out of here," said Gibbs.

[url=http://www.thehogs.net/content/story.php?id=78]Washington Redskins News - The Hogskins - 1992-01-24[/url]

And Offiss are you saying Beathard was upset that Gibbs wanted to trade Oliphant (and a pick) for Byner?[/QUOTE]

Yes I am sure that it's true, but he almost didn't get that far initially because he was the 101 player to be brought in.

A couple of people close to BB at the time he resigned said the BB said, well Joe got his RB's, but was pissed because he really liked Olyphant, and was intending on drafting Icky Woods, but had to back off to Gibbs request, so knowing he was going to lose a public relations war with Gibbs, and couldn't fire the guy after what he had done, he decided to resign, that is what was said at the time, and I don't remember by whom, but it was a main stream statement no Internet back then. I guess it was kind of the straw that broke the camels back, and with his home of San Diego out there I guess that made it much easier to walk away.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss;374708]Personel attacks only BEARS out your ingnorance!

The fact is Gibbs didn't want to cut Jacoby, he wanted 100 players in camp and not 1 more, so one of the scouts showed up with him and Gibbs yelled at him telling him he only wanted 100 players in camp and not 1 more, the scout said Jacoby is over 300 pounds with a 38 inch waste, Gibbs said then cut some one else, so in fairness to Gibbs he never saw the guy play to make an evaluation it was a numbers thing at the time.

Gibbs didn't have to play players and could cut who he wanted but how was he really going to circumvent BB without free agency that is in place now? He couldn't, he had to go with the players BB gave him, which turned out to be tremendous players along with tremendous depth. BB parted ways with us because of personnel disagreements with Gibbs which I believe the Mike Olyphant for Byner trade and the Gerald Riggs trade that BB did at Gibbs behest was the last straw for BB.[/QUOTE]

First. I apologize for the personal attack it was over the top. Your "It's all Gibbs fault, Ramsey's really a great QB who never got a chance" attitude coupled with your abiding Brunnell hatred got to me and I vented in an inappropriate fashion.

With that said, and IMHO, you're consistent ragging on Gibbs b/c of his handling of Ramsey is simply wrong headed and ignores Ramsey's inability to win a starting job anywhere else in this QB starved league. Your refusal to admit that Ramsey's lack of success is his own fault and continued assertion that it is all Gibbs'/Spurrier's fault is particularly annoying. Ramsey has had ample opportunities to "seize the day" and has failed to do so. I have always liked the guy, but it is seems pretty clear that the NFL's coaches and GM's simply don't believe he can be a starter in this league.

Second, to imply or intimate that Gibbs drove off Beathard ignores the nature of the relationship, is disengenous and fails to look at the complete "Beathard" picture. Bobby was a California boy and never thought of the east coast as home. In addition, I think it's been pretty well documented that Gibbs and BB had a stressful but productive partnership. Two very talented men whose different approaches and/or duties led to some heated disagreements. In even the best of circumstances, this creates a difficult work enviroment and, coupled with his desire to live on the west coast, BB moved on. Had Gibbs been the cali boy and not Beathard, it would probably been Gibbs who had left first.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

Maybe it's because I'm a big fan of EB, but I think we ended up better off with him than with Oliphant and Ickey

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

Too often, people pretend that Beathard never made a bad decision. He made a lot of them. Nobody bats 1.000 when it comes to personell.

As for Ramsey - never was, never will be, was never going to be a good QB in this league. The only people that will argue otherwise at this point are him, his wife, his agent, his banker, his mom, his dad, his pastor, his high school coach, and Offiss. I've never seen such devotion in a droid before.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

You have to wonder though how much of Offiss' defense of Ramsey is genuine support of Ramsey and how much is refusal to just let an issue go and say "Hey, you know what maybe I was wrong. Maybe he's not that great. Maybe he should bare some responsibility for his inability to succeed in the NFL"

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;374778]Too often, people pretend that Beathard never made a bad decision. He made a lot of them. Nobody bats 1.000 when it comes to personell.

As for Ramsey - never was, never will be, was never going to be a good QB in this league. The only people that will argue otherwise at this point are him, his wife, his agent, his banker, his mom, his dad, his pastor, his high school coach, and Offiss. I've never seen such devotion in a droid before.[/QUOTE]

Well posted. When so called Redskins fans start disputing our glorious history, something is wrong.

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;374783]You have to wonder though how much of Offiss' defense of Ramsey is genuine support of Ramsey and how much is refusal to just let an issue go and say "Hey, you know what maybe I was wrong. Maybe he's not that great. Maybe he should bare some responsibility for his inability to succeed in the NFL"[/QUOTE]

Come ooonnnn SS. When does Offiss ever admit he's wrong with anything?

Re: Decent Job Ramsey...And Now He Has Taylor Jacobs!
 

I've edited the thread title because I wanted to provide some additional information but didn't want to give Ramsey the benefit of another thread.

This is too good to be true it seems. We may finally see that highly anticipated Ramsey to Jacobs TD connection that's been four years in the making.


[url=http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/11/06/clark-gordon-and-cox-released/]Mason's Morsels » Blog Archive » Clark, Gordon and Cox Released[/url]

[quote]The Broncos filled the roster vacancies by signing wide receiver Taylor Jacobs, a former No. 2 pick of the Washington Redskins in 2003,[/quote]

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=70Chip;374778][B]Too often, people pretend that Beathard never made a bad decision. He made a lot of them. Nobody bats 1.000 when it comes to personell. [/B]

As for Ramsey - never was, never will be, was never going to be a good QB in this league. The only people that will argue otherwise at this point are him, his wife, his agent, his banker, his mom, his dad, his pastor, his high school coach, and Offiss. I've never seen such devotion in a droid before.[/quote]


Two words: Ryan Leaf. What a train wreck he was. Sorry that BB had to end his career like that, I read somewhere that he is not in the hall of fame for that decision, and that is truly a shame. (it was Polian from the colts that said it).

Re: Decent Job Ramsey...And Now He Has Taylor Jacobs!
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;374792]I've edited the thread title because I wanted to provide some additional information but didn't want to give Ramsey the benefit of another thread.

This is too good to be true it seems. We may finally see that highly anticipated Ramsey to Jacobs TD connection that's been four years in the making.


[url=http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/11/06/clark-gordon-and-cox-released/]Mason's Morsels » Blog Archive » Clark, Gordon and Cox Released[/url][/QUOTE]

Maybe that's just the combination that Ramsey has been looking for. :cheeky-sm

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42;374808]Two words: Ryan Leaf. What a train wreck he was. Sorry that BB had to end his career like that, I read somewhere that he is not in the hall of fame for that decision, and that is truly a shame. (it was Polian from the colts that said it).[/QUOTE]

Beathard made a lot of terrible decisions, apart from trading the house for Ryan Leaf. Still he should be in the Hall of Fame. What good GM hasn't made bad decisions (Ron Wolf?)? Beathard made plenty of good decisions, but more importantly had the balls to take risks and the longevity to have a body of work that encompassed both great and awful moves. You can't discrdit his impact on the Redskins's success...but you also shouldn't give him all the credit

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=Mattyk72;374498]Sorry, wrong.

Ramsey was 8-12 as a starter for a winning % of .400. His QB rating here was 74.1.

Brunell was 16-19 including the playoffs for a winning % of .457. His QB rating here is 78.7.

Campbell is 7-8 for a winning % of .466. His QB rating is 75.6.

Nobody [B]hates[/B] Ramsey, we just think he's nothing special.[/quote]

Ramsey threw for 5669 yards in the equivalent of 22 games. He did it for a team that didn't assign enough pass blockers as policy and had bad receivers, the best being Rod Gardner, who couldn't catch the ball and was nicknamed 50-50.

Brunell had 5021 yards in the equivalent of 33 games and was throwing to Cooley and Moss (when Moss was a top threat) and the OL was tough.

Campbell has thrown for 2817 in 15 games, far off Ramsey's pace, inspite of being blessed with better receivers (at least last year.)

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=70Chip;374778]Too often, people pretend that Beathard never made a bad decision. He made a lot of them. Nobody bats 1.000 when it comes to personell.

As for Ramsey - never was, never will be, was never going to be a good QB in this league. The only people that will argue otherwise at this point are him, his wife, his agent, his banker, his mom, his dad, his pastor, his high school coach, and Offiss. I've never seen such devotion in a droid before.[/quote]

Haha....you left out his kids, oops he couldn't possible have a child. But how but his sister, brother, greasey granny, cousins, uncles, aunts and all the rest.........you know the entire fan club?

Nevermind, close enough 70. lol

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;374821]Ramsey threw for 5669 yards in the equivalent of 22 games. He did it for a team that didn't assign enough pass blockers as policy and had bad receivers, the best being Rod Gardner, who couldn't catch the ball and was nicknamed 50-50.

Brunell had 5021 yards in the equivalent of 33 games and was throwing to Cooley and Moss (when Moss was a top threat) and the OL was tough.

Campbell has thrown for 2817 in 15 games, far off Ramsey's pace, inspite of being blessed with better receivers (at least last year.)[/QUOTE]

What do you mean "the equivalent of" Do you just mean 22 games?

Re: Decent Job Ramsey
 

[quote=Crazyhorse1;374821]Ramsey threw for 5669 yards in the equivalent of 22 games. He did it for a team that didn't assign enough pass blockers as policy and had bad receivers, the best being Rod Gardner, who couldn't catch the ball and was nicknamed 50-50.

Brunell had 5021 yards in the equivalent of 33 games and was throwing to Cooley and Moss (when Moss was a top threat) and the OL was tough.

Campbell has thrown for 2817 in 15 games, far off Ramsey's pace, inspite of being blessed with better receivers (at least last year.)[/quote]But that doesn't really argue Matty's point that if you had to rate them, solely on W/L and QB rating on what they had done, it breaks down like Brunell, Campbell, and then Ramsey.

Then you gave different objective evidence that is far more misleading than QB rating and W/L combined. Yards/G doesn't really tell us anything without more information, which because it works against your argument, you can't really give here.

You also completely ignored the presence of Laverneus Coles, and oversimplified the rest of the argument.

Advantage, Matty.