Commanders Post at The Warpath - The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

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Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=jsarno;429476]....I want to keep Mix and work him, but it doesn't [B]appear[/B] the Skins are high on him. Please don't act as if the Giants were high on him either. Plax was an injury issue all season, and they RELEASED Mix to sign Domenik Dixon! That doesn't sound like a team that is "confident" in a player. You speak of the 700 page playbook, yet McCardell came in his first week and started being an impact. So they could have played Mix if they wanted to, yet chose not to. We as fans think too highly of the bench players on our team and always think they will be something special. Well, in certain cases, sure I understand, but it's like this with all our guys.....I've heard people say we have pressing needs at other positions, and we certainly do...I agree. However, getting a big WR with good hands and something to prove in the 5th round is hardly ignoring other positions of need. Being able to get a guy in a position of need in the later rounds is a good idea, and wr is not a "pressing need" but it certainly is a need with the band of misfits we currently have.
Now, if before the draft comes, we sign Hackett / Caldwell and McCardell (like you seem to be suggesting) then we certainly won't look to bring in another WR. But if we do that, do you really think Mix will find the field very often?[/quote]
Mix was not released, he was waived and on the Giants practice squad and the Skins claimed him. He was waived by the Giants for Domenik Hixon, who is primarily a return specialist. Hixon needed a change of scenery after being involved in the Kevin Everett hit and was productive as a returner for the Giants this year. So it's not like Mix was dumped for someone better at his position. As I said earlier, Mix is limited in that he only plays X (from what I read). Not sure who the Skins had playing X in their offense. If Mix couldn't move around to the slot, or the Z, obviously McCardell (a 15yr. + veteran) would be able to come in and be more effective picking up the playbook and being able to move around to different positions in the offense.

I don't think Mix is necessarily special, but he could fill a need as a Red Zone threat immediately and possibly develop into a solid X receiver. At any rate, my point is that Mix is far ahead of Monk right now and unless Monk can be brought in as a FA we shouldn't waste a draft pick on him. If we don't sign Hackett or B. Johnson, and Caldwell bolts then we have a more pressing need at WR and we will probably look to add one in the 3rd round.

I believe we will sign Hackett, Caldwell will re-up and we'll be fine at WR. The 5-7 round picks need to be used to provide depth on the OL, DL & LB with the best players available, with OL taking priority. We have 30 somethings across the OL and if you can't keep the QB upright it doesn't matter how good your WRs are.

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=Dirtbag359;429573]The guy apparently has some pretty bad character issues. Not close to Pacman Jones level but still more trouble then he's worth. Usually a two game suspension is a pretty bad sign. Most coaches are fine with keeping a player on the bench for a half.

[SIZE=3][B]James Hardy[/B][/SIZE]
[URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=1"][COLOR=#000000]WR[/COLOR][/URL] | (6'5[IMG]http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nfl/trans/1_2.gif[/IMG]", 218, 4.58) | [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/school?id=2218"][COLOR=#000000]INDIANA[/COLOR][/URL]

[B]Scouts Grade:[/B] 90

[B]Flags:[/B] [B](C: CHARACTER) [/B]Problems on and off the field[B]View by:[/B] [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/players?draftyear=2008"][COLOR=#000000]Player[/COLOR][/URL] | [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/school?draftyear=2008"][COLOR=#000000]NCAA School[/COLOR][/URL] | [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?draftyear=2008"][COLOR=#000000]Position[/COLOR][/URL] | [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?draftyear=2008"][COLOR=#000000]NFL Team[/COLOR][/URL] | [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/alert?draftyear=2008"][COLOR=#000000]Flag[/COLOR][/URL][IMG]http://assets.espn.go.com/i/in.gif[/IMG] | [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/rankedPlayers?draftyear=2008"][COLOR=#000000]All Ranked Players[/COLOR][/URL][IMG]http://assets.espn.go.com/i/in.gif[/IMG] | [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/histround?year=2006&draftyear=2008"][COLOR=#000000]NFL Draft History[/COLOR][/URL] You are signed into Insider [IMG]http://espn.starwave.com/i/in.gif[/IMG] and have access to the exclusive draft content below.
[B]Strengths:[/B] Flashes the ability to get a clean release working against press coverage and can get open quickly when corners give him a cushion. Athletic and fluid changing directions when footwork is sound. Shows good toughness over the middle and can hold onto the ball after taking the big hit. Doesn't have great top-end speed but is a long-strider, shows good sideline awareness and tracks the ball fairly well so can make the occasional play downfield. Has excellent size and rarely gets muscled out of routes. Stays alert, shows good awareness and works back to the quarterback when the protection starts to break down. Uses wide frame to shield defenders from the ball and can make tough catches in traffic. Snatches the ball out of the air, is fluid turning upfield after catches and can pick up yards after contact. Times jumps well and has the potential to develop into a productive red zone target.

[B]Weaknesses:[/B] Rounds off too many cuts, doesn't set corners up by changing speeds and is an inconsistent route-runner at this point. Lacks ideal explosiveness and is going to have a harder time separating from man coverage at the NFL level. Takes too long to reach top speed, isn't going to make defenders miss in space and isn't much of a big-play threat after the catch. While has great size and flashes the ability to get into position doesn't play with enough of a mean streak and effort is inconsistent when blocking. Indiana suspended him for two games for an off-the-field incident in 2006 and character is somewhat of a concern.

[B]Overall:[/B] Indiana red-shirted Hardy during his true freshman season in 2004. Hardy appeared in ten games during the 2005 season. In 2006, he appeared in ten games recording 51 catches, 722 receiving yards and ten receiving touchdowns. Hardy appeared in all 13 games of the 2007 season recording 79 catches, 1,125 receiving yards and 16 receiving touchdowns. Hardy lacks ideal suddenness and will struggle to separate versus some of the elite cover corners at the next level. He also comes with some character baggage that will cause him to drop a bit during draft weekend. However, Hardy possesses a unique blend of size, athleticism and reliable hands, which is why he could be selected as high as the second round.[/quote]

He was arrested for domestic battery but the charges were dropped. If there were more instances then I would say pass, but there was only one problem during his career and he has been outspoken in addressing it directly. Would you take a chance on Randy Moss knowing what you know now? I thought so. We also took a chance on Fred Smoot a 1st round talent that fell on draft day becasue of character concerns and I think he's turned out alright.

Also, the guy shows a lot of class on the field, scored over 30 TD's in his career and flips it to the ref each time.

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=jsarno;429505]I don't think the reps matter for WR's when they first come out. I recall Randy Moss being an absolute twig. It's not uncommon for WR's to come out of college kind of weak. How many DB's are they going to face that can put up 225lbs more than 9 times?
With the exception of a few wr's, they are all projects.
I think you underestimate him.[/quote]
DGreene is absolutely right. 9 reps is a poor number for any NFL prospect. Every DB with bench numbers listed in the combine did 10 reps or more. Monk's 9 reps was the worst among all WRs at the combine. You expect a guy at 220+ lbs. to put up a good 225 rep #. Especially if the guy is only average speed at best.

[URL="http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/combineWR.html"]2008 NFL Scouting Combine Stats: Receivers[/URL]

Sorry to dump on you, but you should change your User Title. LOL

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;429585]DGreene is absolutely right. 9 reps is a poor number for any NFL prospect. Every DB with bench numbers listed in the combine did 10 reps or more. Monk's 9 reps was the worst among all WRs at the combine. You expect a guy at 220+ lbs. to put up a good 225 rep #. Especially if the guy is only average speed at best.

[URL="http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/combineWR.html"]2008 NFL Scouting Combine Stats: Receivers[/URL]

Sorry to dump on you, but you should change your User Title. LOL[/quote]

Two different types of WR . Randy Moss was a freakish athlete who if a DB tried to jam they would get the ole . Monk won't be able to do that, he'll have to use his body to shield defenders which at this point he is clearly way to weak to even sit at the table.

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;429585]DGreene is absolutely right. 9 reps is a poor number for any NFL prospect. Every DB with bench numbers listed in the combine did 10 reps or more. Monk's 9 reps was the worst among all WRs at the combine. You expect a guy at 220+ lbs. to put up a good 225 rep #. Especially if the guy is only average speed at best.

[URL="http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/combineWR.html"]2008 NFL Scouting Combine Stats: Receivers[/URL]

Sorry to dump on you, but you should change your User Title. LOL[/quote]

I say that the only guys that get a pass on bench press are the tall guys with the huge wingspan. Hardy is around 6'7 so his wingspan is probably 6'7. Kevin Durant is the ultimate poster boy for this. With a 7'1 wingspan he couldn't even bench 185 pounds.

Calias Campbell might get a pass as well because he's 6'7 like Hardy.

It's a well known fact that being barrell chested gives you a huge advantage in the bench press.

Monk is 6'6 so that gives him a huge disadvantage going into the bench press.

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=Dirtbag359;429614]I say that the only guys that get a pass on bench press are the tall guys with the huge wingspan. Hardy is around 6'7 so his wingspan is probably 6'7. Kevin Durant is the ultimate poster boy for this. With a 7'1 wingspan he couldn't even bench 185 pounds.

Calias Campbell might get a pass as well because he's 6'7 like Hardy.

It's a well known fact that being barrell chested gives you a huge advantage in the bench press.

Monk is 6'6 so that gives him a huge disadvantage going into the bench press.[/quote]
No pass on height or wing-span. Height is not a huge disadvantage in bench press when you are comparing among WRs & DBs with similar body types. Not too many barrell chested NFL WRs & DBs out there. If you are comparing RBs / LBs / Lineman to WRs/DBs then fine.

Obviously a guy at 6' 210 will probably knock out 2-3 more reps than a guy at 6' 3" 210 if they are both similarly jacked-up. But Monk's 9 reps is the worst of the WRs. Hardy did 18, Bowman did 14, Hubbard did 15, Sam did 23, Smith did 20 and Urruita did 16. Monk is just flat out weak.

C. Campbell fell off my radar when he put up only 16 reps and looked very soft in the upper body. He's not a case of "wing-span" he's a case of weak. He will get man-handled by NFL O-Lineman, and so will Monk by NFL DBs.

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;429577]Mix was not released, he was waived and on the Giants practice squad and the Skins claimed him. He was waived by the Giants for Domenik Hixon, who is primarily a return specialist. Hixon needed a change of scenery after being involved in the Kevin Everett hit and was productive as a returner for the Giants this year. So it's not like Mix was dumped for someone better at his position. As I said earlier, Mix is limited in that he only plays X (from what I read). Not sure who the Skins had playing X in their offense. If Mix couldn't move around to the slot, or the Z, obviously McCardell (a 15yr. + veteran) would be able to come in and be more effective picking up the playbook and being able to move around to different positions in the offense.

I don't think Mix is necessarily special, but he could fill a need as a Red Zone threat immediately and possibly develop into a solid X receiver. At any rate, my point is that Mix is far ahead of Monk right now and unless Monk can be brought in as a FA we shouldn't waste a draft pick on him. If we don't sign Hackett or B. Johnson, and Caldwell bolts then we have a more pressing need at WR and we will probably look to add one in the 3rd round.

I believe we will sign Hackett, Caldwell will re-up and we'll be fine at WR. The 5-7 round picks need to be used to provide depth on the OL, DL & LB with the best players available, with OL taking priority. We have 30 somethings across the OL and if you can't keep the QB upright it doesn't matter how good your WRs are.[/QUOTE]

We're really not far off on our thoughts other than I don't think using a 5th rounder for this kid is wasting a pick.

Regardless if he was waived or released, you don't do that to someone when the WR ahead of him didn't even practice all season. It was painfully obvious they had no real plans for him.

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=skinsfan69;429816]Bench pressing has nothing to do with a guy's ability to play football or beat a guy that's trying to press him. The scouts put too much stock into the bench press.[/quote]

Scouts put too much stock into the combine period. The film does not lie. Case and point, Brandon Flowers has been removed from the top of most draft boards due to a not so stellar 40 time. He will still be the best CB drafted this year because he can flat out play better than the rest of those guys.

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=angryssg;429819]Scouts put too much stock into the combine period. The film does not lie. Case and point, Brandon Flowers has been removed from the top of most draft boards due to a not so stellar 40 time. He will still be the best CB drafted this year because he can flat out play better than the rest of those guys.[/quote]

I love Brandon Flowers, he's a lot better then Cason and Talib in my opinion. He ran a 4.55 which is not great... but I bet he's one of those guys who runs well in pads.

I would take him in the 2nd round in a heartbeat

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=DGreene28;429822]I love Brandon Flowers, he's a lot better then Cason and Talib in my opinion. He ran a 4.55 which is not great... but I bet he's one of those guys who runs well in pads.

I would take him in the 2nd round in a heartbeat[/quote]

I concur. I would take him in the top 10 if I had a pick. The only reason he fell out of the top 10 was because of that damn 40 time.

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=skinsfan69;429816]Bench pressing has nothing to do with a guy's ability to play football or beat a guy that's trying to press him. The scouts put too much stock into the bench press.[/quote]
Overall strength is definitely a significant factor that needs to be considered in evaluating a guy's ability to play and beat press coverage. Especially a bigger guy who is not tremendously fast or quick.

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;429394]I buy into having a balanced attack. At least one big, physical receiver is a necessary weapon, particularly in the Red Zone. It doesn't matter if we have 4 receivers that run sub-4.5s inside the 20. Their speed is completely negated down there because there is no where to stretch the field.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you miss understand what i'm saying. I'm not against 'big' receivers.
But, being 'big' is nothing without speed. At any level of football, especially the NFL speed is essential.

Every team wants a big receiver who is also fast but the reality is that there aren't that many.

Inside the 20 vertical speed is most certainly a weapon. The Post, Skinny Post, Post-Corner, Flag, Go, Out and Up, Seam-Go, Slant are some 'speed' routes ran inside the 20)
-In the Seattle game Randle El scored on a Slant from inside the 10, and Hacket scored on a Seam-Go inside the 20

In the Red Zone speed is still an essential factor in gaining separation from the defender to get open. (separation is not just vertical, but horizontal also)

*Also you don't have to pass to score in the Red Zone. If we must throw to a 'big' receiver we can always split Cooley out wide.

I think people forget the majority of productive receivers in the NFL are under 6'2 and they still seem to score inside the 20 and even inside the 10 (oh my!) and on the goalline.

Bengals- T.J. Housh- 6'1 199
Chad Johnson- 6'1 192
Colts- Gonzalez, A - 6'0 193
Harrison, M - 6'0 185
Wayne, R - 6'0 198
Pats- Welker, W - 5'9 185
Steeler-Ward,H - 6'0 205

This list is just some of the AFC teams. Should I continue?

Extra note: those 'West Coast Offense' teams Green Bay, Seattle, Tampa Bay all their receivers are short dudes

Re: The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[quote=angryssg;429824]I concur. I would take him in the top 10 if I had a pick. The only reason he fell out of the top 10 was because of that damn 40 time.[/quote]

I wouldn't take him that high... I think Mayock is overating him. I would take him between picks 25-42

And I would not touch Aqib Talib or Antoine Cason with a 10 foot pole in the first.

McKelvin and Rodgers-Cromartie I would grab with the 21st pick if they were availiable