Re: The Season Is Over
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;231464]I can't honestly say any GM names come to mind at the present who would want to work for Snyder, but Ron Wolfe is one I wouldn't mind seeing be the GM here. There's nothing wrong with Snyder doing the same thing JKC did when he was owner, he oversaw the work og his GM Bobby Bethard during Gibbs first stretch, and let him run the team including overseeing the draft and choosing the players. Vinny should go back where Marty sent him in 2001 and Gibbs should be the head coach which position he holds at this time. It would seem to me difficult for Gibbs to come back to the game afetr having been gone for so long, and begin to instantly make personell decisions because it's not likely he would know the players around the league having been absent from the game. I have never been throughly convinced of the fact JG is of the greatest personell men, he and Bethard had their falling out's too, some of which was due to Gibbs's overwhelming loyalty to veteran players. And yes!! Snyder should just write the checks and shut the hell up.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for at least putting some effort into a response, rather than the standard we need a GM. Wolf lives in Annapolis so he's alway rumored to be a possibility.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

The season is over? It's about whether the Redskins are headed in the right direction overall, and that can't be judged based on one loss to a team presumed to be terrible (so bad they almost beat the Colts).

The combination of injuries and a new offensive approach is causing us to lose some games we might have won, but is the new offensive approach going to be make us better or worse in the long run? I say better.

We need more depth in the secondary; we signed Troy Vincent, we'll address the issue as a top concern in the offseason, but we have Springs starting to play again. We will get things turned around.

We can look forward to seeing the team come together and develop this year and be primed for a Super Bowl run next season. All is not lost. We have the right head coach who I would not trade for anyone, and the right coaching staff. We have players who stick together and won't start turning on each other because our record isn't what we hoped at this point.

The SI reporter had the NFC East teams all finishing 9-7 - even this season is a possibility as far as the playoffs. I look forward to seeing the team putting the pieces of the puzzle together over the course of the rest of this season.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

Yeah you're right. But its so damn frustrating to have to use the phrase "next year" not even mid way through the season. HAIL from MCUSA!

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=Oakland Red;231473]
We need more depth in the secondary; we signed Troy Vincent, we'll address the issue as a top concern in the offseason, but we have Springs starting to play again. We will get things turned around.[/quote]

it was a top priority this offseason (like kicker and punter and OL depth) and you saw how well those were addressed.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

From [url=http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=112975&ran=80584&tref=rss]ARTICLE: Redskins having no luck throwing the ball long (The Virginian-Pilot - HamptonRoads.com/PilotOnline.com)[/url]


Saunders has maintained since training camp that much of this season will be a learning process. He needs to learn the players and their strengths and weaknesses. The players need to learn and become comfortable with an offense that may be foreign to what they've known.


At first, Moss balked at the notion that learning is still going on, saying that the screens and short passes and reverses are "just part of the system, and it's a matter of just going out and doing it."


But a couple of minutes later, his position had shifted.


" It's a long season, man, and all we can do is keep going out there," he said. "Regardless of what people are saying and people are thinking, it's still a new offense, and we're going to find a way to make it work for us."

Re: The Season Is Over
 

You are 100 % correct . Amazing how we send 6 defenders at the qb and still cannot get any pressure , when most teams have figured a way to get pressure with 4 or 5 rushers ? Too bad we pass on the Tapp's , Canty's Merriman's ,Andersons and Dummerville's every year . Dan should take some of his $$$ and hire a freakin GM !

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=TAFKAS;229398]Remember the Chargers! 0-4 in 1992, finished 11-5 with a playoff win

Season is far from over[/quote]


gotta love your optimisim. but the facts are this we lose to the colts. it is over period.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=TAFKAS;231324]Well give some examples. And what would the new structure be? Would Vinny be gone? Would Gibbs no longer be president and have control over player personnel decisions? Would the new GM still have to answer to Snyder?[/quote]


Lets go back to the days of the late Jack Kent Cooke. He sat in his office and signed the checks. Bethard picked the players and Gibbs coached them up. Yes by all means fire Vinny. See the real problem with Snyder is he is a FAN before an OWNER. That in itself is the real problem. On the business side of football we have a very successful franchise but that doesnt translate to wins on the field. As far as who to get to be the gm. well maybe we need to look into grabbing an assistant from the patriots. They seem to reload every year. But there is one guy out there who hasnt had the best results lately and its one of the first mistakes snyder made which was choosing turner over casserly. Bring back charlie.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[QUOTE=vaoutlaws2006;231555]Lets go back to the days of the late Jack Kent Cooke. He sat in his office and signed the checks. Bethard picked the players and Gibbs coached them up. Yes by all means fire Vinny. See the real problem with Snyder is he is a FAN before an OWNER. That in itself is the real problem. On the business side of football we have a very successful franchise but that doesnt translate to wins on the field. As far as who to get to be the gm. well maybe we need to look into grabbing an assistant from the patriots. They seem to reload every year. But there is one guy out there who hasnt had the best results lately and its one of the first mistakes snyder made which was choosing turner over casserly. Bring back charlie.[/QUOTE]

Ok, going by your plan. Do you think Gibbs would have even come back if he was the coach, and only the coach?

Re: The Season Is Over
 

To blame Dan is ridiculous. He gives EVERY coach what they want in terms of players, and coaches. The man went out and gave Gibbs everything he wanted. Do you really think Dan wanted Mark? Everything player, every coach has been by Gibbs request. I would even go as far to say that GW has some say in to two FA we overpayed for this offseason. People forget that Joe didn't pick his players the first go round, he may have had some say, but if it came down to him and bethard or casserly not agreeing, Cooke made the call. Dan is just signing the checks. The man is paying his assistants more than some head coaches, because Joe wanted them! To put the blame on a guy that spends every stinking dollar to try and give us the fans and the city a winning team is obsurd. What needs to happen is bring in a true GM, talent evaluator, and have Danny say NO once in a blue moon. He will never say NO to Joe. He views Joe as a God. like most of us. Dan is getting a bad rap for the teams lack of success. for the coaches getting out coached (tennesse, minnesota) and the players for getting out played (Giants, Dallas).

Re: The Season Is Over
 

Good Post

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=#56fanatic;231574]To blame Dan is ridiculous. He gives EVERY coach what they want in terms of players, and coaches. The man went out and gave Gibbs everything he wanted. Do you really think Dan wanted Mark? Everything player, every coach has been by Gibbs request. I would even go as far to say that GW has some say in to two FA we overpayed for this offseason. People forget that Joe didn't pick his players the first go round, he may have had some say, but if it came down to him and bethard or casserly not agreeing, Cooke made the call. Dan is just signing the checks. The man is paying his assistants more than some head coaches, because Joe wanted them! To put the blame on a guy that spends every stinking dollar to try and give us the fans and the city a winning team is obsurd. What needs to happen is bring in a true GM, talent evaluator, and have Danny say NO once in a blue moon. He will never say NO to Joe. He views Joe as a God. like most of us. Dan is getting a bad rap for the teams lack of success. for the coaches getting out coached (tennesse, minnesota) and the players for getting out played (Giants, Dallas).[/quote]

I definitely agree.

Snyder brought back Gibbs, he gives Gibbs a nearly limitless budget when it comes to his coaching staff, and he gives the coaches any player they want.

Blame Snyder for the past mistakes such as 2000, but continuing to blame him now is just silly. He's doing exactly what we wanted him to do all along. He hired football men to run the team, and he's stepped back and now just signs the checks.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=vaoutlaws2006;231552]gotta love your optimisim. but the facts are this we lose to the colts. it is over period.[/quote]

Wrong!

Re: The Season Is Over
 

I am not really sure of what to say, 2-4 is 2-4, and definitely the record of a bad team. The Titans loss hurt in many ways, and one would think the team would have been motivated after laying an egg in the Meadowlands. I caught part of the John Riggin's Joe Gibb's Show on the radio and Riggo made a comment about, expectations and reality, and the truth of the matter is that everyone in the DC area who is Redskins fan, bought into the off-season hoopla that this was going to be a good team, now we have the reality of 2-4.

I hope the best for the team and want them to win every single game, realisticly though, that is not a highly probably outcome. The team seems to be out of sorts, and there are major problems on both the offense and the defence, I don't foresee this problems getting 'fixed' anytime soon. I guess in part this is why so many people focus on Brunell for it is easier to change the quarterback than it is to come up with a new defensive line, or secondary. Undoubtedly the big problem in the Tenesse game was the rookie DTs going through a painful learning curve, of learning the game.

The problem with the organization is the lack of a Plan B, in that Griffin has had health issues and likewise with Springs and John Hall, yet no effort was made to ensure that there was quality depth at these positions. In contrast you look at the Eagles, and they always seem to have quality depth on their defensive line, I find it remarkable that the basically just dump Corey Simon, a year ago, and keep getting good results. In contrast the Redskins are too 'star' focused in that in lot of money is vested in 'star' caliber starters but there is in adequate quality depth. Therefore, it should not come as a surprise that the team struggles when it looses starters. Until organization changes mind set, and gets away from 'star' players to Joe Gibb's 'Redskin' players these problems are going to continue. I remember the great teams of the 80s - 90s and those teams were not loaded with star players, after all, the Redskins were one of the first teams to have the fans glamorize the offensive line with the Hogs. The glamor team back then was the 49ers with Montanna, Rice, Craig, etc., not the Skins.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=DirtBagZ;231625]I am not really sure of what to say, 2-4 is 2-4, and definitely the record of a bad team. The Titans loss hurt in many ways, and one would think the team would have been motivated after laying an egg in the Meadowlands. I caught part of the John Riggin's Joe Gibb's Show on the radio and Riggo made a comment about, expectations and reality, and the truth of the matter is that everyone in the DC area who is Redskins fan, bought into the off-season hoopla that this was going to be a good team, now we have the reality of 2-4.

I hope the best for the team and want them to win every single game, realisticly though, that is not a highly probably outcome. The team seems to be out of sorts, and there are major problems on both the offense and the defence, I don't foresee this problems getting 'fixed' anytime soon. I guess in part this is why so many people focus on Brunell for it is easier to change the quarterback than it is to come up with a new defensive line, or secondary. Undoubtedly the big problem in the Tenesse game was the rookie DTs going through a painful learning curve, of learning the game.

The problem with the organization is the lack of a Plan B, in that Griffin has had health issues and likewise with Springs and John Hall, yet no effort was made to ensure that there was quality depth at these positions. In contrast you look at the Eagles, and they always seem to have quality depth on their defensive line, I find it remarkable that the basically just dump Corey Simon, a year ago, and keep getting good results. In contrast the Redskins are too 'star' focused in that in lot of money is vested in 'star' caliber starters but there is in adequate quality depth. Therefore, it should not come as a surprise that the team struggles when it looses starters. Until organization changes mind set, and gets away from 'star' players to Joe Gibb's 'Redskin' players these problems are going to continue. I remember the great teams of the 80s - 90s and those teams were not loaded with star players, after all, the Redskins were one of the first teams to have the fans glamorize the offensive line with the Hogs. The glamor team back then was the 49ers with Montanna, Rice, Craig, etc., not the Skins.[/quote]


The way the organization as a whole, Gibbs in our case over the last few years, is not a big fan of the draft. Gibbs window is not as long as it was in the 80's and 90's so the win now mentality is bigger than ever. They throw away picks that could provide qaulity depth at the line positions. They have used the 1st through 3rd rounds pretty good. they finally have selected players past the 4th that can contribute (Golston & montgomery). dont look for that to change. Our philosophy is why draft a guy who will need a few years of coaching when we can add a player who has played 3 or 4 years and contribute right away. That kills the prospect of developing young talent and getting quality depth. We have been a quick fix organization for a number of years. Until our team looks at the situation and says, he lets build from the draft, this is something we will have to live with. Dan will do what ever the coach says or what ever the coach wants (referring to gibbs).

Re: The Season Is Over
 

If this season turns out poorly, do you think gibbs will hand the team to Williams or Saunders? If not, will he at least allow a GM to take control of personnel issues?

Re: The Season Is Over
 

hasnt he already handed the team to williams and saunders? and for those who are starting the GM call again, dont. we just need some kind of better talent evaluation, and it doesnt necessarily have to come from a GM. in addition to that, most of our picks have paneed out. this year has been an off year.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=#56fanatic;231630]The way the organization as a whole, Gibbs in our case over the last few years, is not a big fan of the draft. Gibbs window is not as long as it was in the 80's and 90's so the win now mentality is bigger than ever. They throw away picks that could provide qaulity depth at the line positions. They have used the 1st through 3rd rounds pretty good. they finally have selected players past the 4th that can contribute (Golston & montgomery). dont look for that to change. Our philosophy is why draft a guy who will need a few years of coaching when we can add a player who has played 3 or 4 years and contribute right away. That kills the prospect of developing young talent and getting quality depth. We have been a quick fix organization for a number of years. Until our team looks at the situation and says, he lets build from the draft, this is something we will have to live with. Dan will do what ever the coach says or what ever the coach wants (referring to gibbs).[/quote]

56Fanatic - I am not going to disagree with everything that you said, but those old Redskins teams in the 1st Joe Gibbs Era, were not 100% built on free-agent veterans. Granted the Redskins were probably one of the most successful teams in terms of using Plan B free-agency and landed on of the first free-agents in Wilbur Marshall there was a lot of talent that was drafted. Darrel Green, Charles Mann, Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, Mark Schlereth (probably misspelled his name), Brian Mitchell. Granted there were busts such as Desmond Howard, and Bobby Wilson (DT Michigan or Michigan St can't remember exactly but a big bust). Still those teams were not all big time free-agent based, like the modern Skins.

Fellow Skins fans, please forgive me if I have misspelled the names of any Redskins legends, I am a terrible speller.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

whats funny is that if we were winning like last year, all these offseason pickups look brilliant. say we just got moss and the team is playing like this, is he a bust all of a sudden? i dont think theres a right or wrong way to build a team. we got two great WRs this year, we just have to have someone get them the ball in the AIR. i think we missed on archuleta, but carter seems to have stepped up a bit even though his run D isnt the greatest.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ;231701]56Fanatic - I am not going to disagree with everything that you said, but those old Redskins teams in the 1st Joe Gibbs Era, were not 100% built on free-agent veterans. Granted the Redskins were probably one of the most successful teams in terms of using Plan B free-agency and landed on of the first free-agents in Wilbur Marshall there was a lot of talent that was drafted. Darrel Green, Charles Mann, Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, Mark Schlereth (probably misspelled his name), Brian Mitchell. Granted there were busts such as Desmond Howard, and Bobby Wilson (DT Michigan or Michigan St can't remember exactly but a big bust). Still those teams were not all big time free-agent based, like the modern Skins.

Fellow Skins fans, please forgive me if I have misspelled the names of any Redskins legends, I am a terrible speller.[/QUOTE]

Jacoby was a free agent. But beside that, we have more draft picks playing key roles than people seem to want to believe. 3/5th of our starting O-line (Samuels, Dockery, Jansen), our #2 RB (Betts) our KR (Cartwright) our starting safety (Taylor) our starting corner (Rogers). Golston and Montgomery play major minutes at DT (starting out of necessity right now, probably sooner than they should be) I think opening day next year at the latest Jason Campbell and Rocky will be starting. Is Demetric Evans a draft pick? If so, that's another one. Chris Cooley is another one.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

right. i think that just because archuleta doesnt have 11 ints and 40 sacks hes a bust. its all because of the losing. if we were winning, we wouldnt hear a word about how we built this team.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

It is true, a good QB would set many things right. When you are moving the ball, it takes the focus off the defensive weakesses. Peyton and Marino brought their respective teams to the playoffs year after year with weak defenses or running games. You NEED a good QB to win consistantly. So much happens in a football game that puts a team through adversity, and a QB with talent and poise can be the medicine. Brunell is poised but no longer talented. No team is perfect, but the QB needs to be at least respectable.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[QUOTE=Oakland Red;231473]The season is over? It's about whether the Redskins are headed in the right direction overall, and that can't be judged based on one loss to a team presumed to be terrible (so bad they almost beat the Colts).

The combination of injuries and a new offensive approach is causing us to lose some games we might have won, but is the new offensive approach going to be make us better or worse in the long run? I say better.

We need more depth in the secondary; we signed Troy Vincent, we'll address the issue as a top concern in the offseason, but we have Springs starting to play again. We will get things turned around.

We can look forward to seeing the team come together and develop this year and be primed for a Super Bowl run next season. All is not lost. We have the right head coach who I would not trade for anyone, and the right coaching staff. We have players who stick together and won't start turning on each other because our record isn't what we hoped at this point.

The SI reporter had the NFC East teams all finishing 9-7 - even this season is a possibility as far as the playoffs. I look forward to seeing the team putting the pieces of the puzzle together over the course of the rest of this season.[/QUOTE]




I disagree with the fact this team will be primed for a run at the SB next year because we have too many area's that need to be addressed before we can make such a prediction. The QB situation (which is of major concern) needs to be sorted out first and foremost. Depth, after our first twenty two, there's no much in terms of quality back ups's which we are seeing at present. We have so much of the cap invested in those twenty two, there's not a great deal left for quality back-up players. We have aging veterans at key positions, espically on defense (DE in particular) Wynn, and Daniels are getting long in the tooth, Griffin, and Salava's have experienced injury problems the past two seasons so their long term health has to be a concern. We just have so many across the board area's of concern it's difficult to predict at this time what the next season will be like. Just the thought of maybe starting a young QB with such limited experience is enough to give pause to any bold predictions.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

To be considered a good team, is not having winless teams come in on your home field and beat you. All this preseason hype is just bull. This team needs to find it's identity, and stop making excuses!

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;231672]If this season turns out poorly, do you think gibbs will hand the team to Williams or Saunders? If not, will he at least allow a GM to take control of personnel issues?[/QUOTE]



Dan Snyder is a fan, and not secure enough in his mindset to the extent he would be willing to relinquish control to a GM. He understands what a GM's responsibility is, and to hire one would (in his estimation) deminish to a certain extent his input in player personell selections. He proved the point when Marty was here that's why he only lasted one season. I just don't think he will ever be willing to give up that control.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

Can we get this STUPID ASS thread title off the board already?

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=Alvin#40;231867]Can we get this STUPID ASS thread title off the board already?[/quote]

says the guy who just bumped it right back to the top a day after the last post was made :P

Re: The Season Is Over
 

Can we go 8-1? I hope so. You never know.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

I think the season is over.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

I believe that it is time to put McIntosh and Cambell in the game. I agree this season is over. I also think Joe Gibbs will put Cambell in next week. If he does not he may be waiting for one or two more loses.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

fuck brunell, dont even tell me it ain't brunells fault either

Re: The Season Is Over
 

Thats pretty harsh. I am not a Brunnel fan, but he does not normally lose games he just does not win them for you. The whole team played like shit. I want Cambell.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

I never thought I'd hate football...but its times like these that make me wish I had a basketball team to pull for...or hockey, or lacrosse, or checkers for all I care

Re: The Season Is Over
 

i could of been harsher

Re: The Season Is Over
 

I cant believe the Packers and the 49er's have a better record than us. Its hard to believe the Niners could be 4 and 5, without their star reciever and defensive end.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=CPDAMAN;244010]I cant believe the Packers and the 49er's have a better record than us. Its hard to believe the Niners could be 4 and 5, without their star reciever and defensive end.[/quote]

Yes. One of the toughest aspects of supporting the Redskins at the moment is the amount of emails/TXT's/voicemails that my (Niners/Cowboys/Giants) friends send me laughing at the Redskins.

It's shocking that the Niners, of all teams, have a better record.

:vomit:

Re: The Season Is Over
 

ok, lets now prepare for next season by playing jason campbell and retire mark brunnel

Re: The Season Is Over
 

The fat lady sung today.

Re: The Season Is Over
 

Thank you Captain Obvious......

Re: The Season Is Over
 

[quote=hooskins;255074]Thank you Captain Obvious......[/quote]

LOL....nice one Hoo