Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;255147]Here's Redskins fans in a nutshell.

Win = playoff talk.

Loss = fire the coaches and cut the players.[/quote]
I agree but c'mon you know that doesn't apply to all of us. I know i'm no hipocrit and I don't contradict myself week to week, I kno you don't either..

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=12thMan;254846]The critism that Gibbs draws is totally warranted. Let's get a couple of things straight: The Redskins had a good tradition before Gibbs came here in the 80s. George Allen took the team to the Super Bowl if anyone cares to remember. I think what Gibbs did during his tenure was cement the franchise among the greatest in football.

Secondly, there seems to be an attitude that because Joe Gibbs has three Super Bowl rings, he's beyond reproach some how. I just don't get it. In three years since his arrival, the offense has been sporadic and inconsistent.

Al Saunders isn't the blame, Joe Gibbs is to blame. Daniel Snyder isn't to blame, Joe Gibbs is to blame. Gregg Williams isn't to blame, Joe Gibbs is to blame. Even when Williams fielded a top defense the past two years, we failed to give him an offense that could remotely keep pace and challenge to be a contender.

You guys can say what you will about Gibbs, but the bottom line...THE BOTTOM line is he hasn't done a good job since he has returned to Washington.[/quote]


Agreed. He has not got the job done. However I hope he stays and fixes it.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;255147]Here's Redskins fans in a nutshell.

Win = playoff talk.

Loss = fire the coaches and cut the players.[/QUOTE]



I could not have said it any better. Are we talking about true fans, or chronic complainers?

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;255192]Agreed. He has not got the job done. However I hope he stays and fixes it.[/quote]
Exactly. And thats the intended message of this thread. I don't understand why people can't accept this. It's ridiculous how so many are trying to bash Paul for saying this. It makes me so mad, so many people just stick up for Gibbs because of what he's accomplished. Overall, our offense has been terrible under Gibbs. Look at Coughlin and Parcells and what they've done in the same amount of time, with less money. I find it hard to believe that Gibbs has lost his coaching ability, and I don't agree that he shuld be fired, but at least I can accept the facts.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=soccercycbk;255213]Exactly. And thats the intended message of this thread. I don't understand why people can't accept this. It's ridiculous how so many are trying to bash Paul for saying this. It makes me so mad, so many people just stick up for Gibbs because of what he's accomplished. Overall, our offense has been terrible under Gibbs. Look at Coughlin and Parcells and what they've done in the same amount of time, with less money. I find it hard to believe that Gibbs has lost his coaching ability, and I don't agree that he shuld be fired, but at least I can accept the facts.[/quote]

The intended message of this thread is Gibbs can't get it done and needs to step down.

The majority of rational thinking fans will agree he hasn't gotten it done, but that same majority doesn't want a change at head coach.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

i think its the fans who are to blame...fans who the redskins are afraid they will lose if they dont go into every season with a superbowl or bust kind of addititude. so just relax. winning is always sweeter when you wait for it and watch a team grow and mature into champions anyway. stop being drama queens and enjoy watching this team blossom into super champions in the next couple years

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

Speaking of the fans. It seemed like there were a lot of empty seats today.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;255147]Here's Redskins fans in a nutshell.

Win = playoff talk.

Loss = fire the coaches and cut the players.[/quote]


BINGO!!!

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

Stay tuned for next week when we'll hear "can we make the playoffs at 8-8"?

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

now that my mind is clear from the loss.... i will explain myself from my ranting earlier... when it comes to gibbs, he is to blame for personell decisions ex.bringing in saunders when we were on to something at the end of last year and for trading away all our picks . as for snyder putting us into cap hell for the rest of the century and making us the yankees of football.. and greg williams for letting his ego get in the way and feeling he could put anyone in his scheme and they would perform instead of signing our free agent studs. they are all to blame but as a head coach, overall the blame is his.... he needs to step in and bring order and hire a g.m or step a side.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan;254798]Im a Skins fan of over 20 years. Im sick and tired of the poor clock management, poor play calling at the end of the game, and poor personnell decisions. All of these are the responsibility of Joe Gibbs. Thus, reluctantly, I am now of the opinion that he must step down. The play calling and clock management have been atrocious for 3 years now. Good Bye Joe.[/QUOTE]


ZZZzzzZZZzzz...

Did not read.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=VTSkins897;255233]ZZZzzzZZZzzz...

Did not read.[/quote]

You're a smart one

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;255220]The intended message of this thread is Gibbs can't get it done and needs to step down.

The majority of rational thinking fans will agree he hasn't gotten it done, but that same majority doesn't want a change at head coach.[/quote]
thats exactly what i said...

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;255228]Stay tuned for next week when we'll hear "can we make the playoffs at 8-8"?[/QUOTE]


"Espically" if we win.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=charlielyons;255231]now that my mind is clear from the loss.... i will explain myself from my ranting earlier... when it comes to gibbs, he is to blame for personell decisions ex.bringing in saunders when we were on to something at the end of last year and for trading away all our picks . as for snyder putting us into cap hell for the rest of the century and making us the yankees of football.. and greg williams for letting his ego get in the way and feeling he could put anyone in his scheme and they would perform instead of signing our free agent studs. they are all to blame but as a head coach, overall the blame is his.... he needs to step in and bring order and hire a g.m or step a side.[/QUOTE]

A few things-

1. Why are we giving up on Saunders after just one half-season considering his track record?

2. What cap hell? How many times has cap hell been right around the corner only to not show up?

3. Hasn't Williams scheme often proven to be more valuable than the player? How else do you explain someone like Marshall converting from DB and outperforming all-world LaVar. Vernon Fox playing better than pereniall all-pro Archuleta. Heck, we even made a "star" out of Ryan Clark

I'd love for us to hire a GM and see what people say when we don't go 16-0. A lot of people think just hiring a GM is the answer to everything (that and benching Brunell).

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

I'm not sold on the idea that a GM, at this point, would turn things around. I think we have good personnel on both sides of the ball. I'll go as far to say, I think we have playoff personnel on both sides of the ball.

As I stated previously, I'm not sure if Gibbs stepping down is the answer, but I'm starting to have my doubts as to whether a team with this much talent is responding to the coaching staff.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=TAFKAS;255259]A few things-

1. Why are we giving up on Saunders after just one half-season considering his track record?

2. What cap hell? How many times has cap hell been right around the corner only to not show up?

3. Hasn't Williams scheme often proven to be more valuable than the player? How else do you explain someone like Marshall converting from DB and outperforming all-world LaVar. Vernon Fox playing better than pereniall all-pro Archuleta. Heck, we even made a "star" out of Ryan Clark

I'd love for us to hire a GM and see what people say when we don't go 16-0. A lot of people think just hiring a GM is the answer to everything (that and benching Brunell).[/quote]
Honest our organization has had a decade history of losing, and only way to reverse that is consistancy. Period. I think that is all we can do.

I was talking to someone else about this but, look at the Titans. Talk about bright future, and they stuck with Fisher over a bunch of losing seasons. Look at them now, Young looks really good, and their D isn't that bad.

Synder made some mistakes in the past because he did not know what he was doing. Basically Gibbs handles those choices now and he made some mistakes with free agency.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

we should keep the staff... this was a year full of new coaches and coordinators. if it takes a year for the offense to learn the saunders' playbook, then we keep him another season.

GW has proven that his system works... we just need to have a healthy springs next season and hopefully vernon fox will settle in a little more. the defensive line has some promise... the defense starts there- golston is a find and carter is finally getting some momentum. a healthy cornelius griffin makes all the difference in the world. the defense will be back next season, as long as everyone is good to go.

campbell will have had half a season and a full off season to play as the starter... portis will be refreshed. our wideouts will finally be on the same page. that's if we keep the system... sleep on it tonight- you don't want to overhaul everything. what we can do better from here on out is to build through the draft... i think the top heads now know we don't need to win the FA sweepstakes every offseason in order to be successful. start finding talent in the draft and keep the picks.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=soccercycbk;255247]thats exactly what i said...[/quote]

I was just clarifying that Paul wants a change, the majority of us don't. You seemed to breeze over that important note regarding the intention of this thread.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

What is the reasonable turnaround time for francise in COMPLETE disarray for a dozen years? Who has done it?

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=charlielyons;254808]ive been a skins fan for about 20 years too and our problem is we dont treat this as a business. we try to build loyalty and in this day and age it does not exist. we need to totally rebuild from management to coaches to players no matter how much leadership or what they have done for the franchise....and yes im including gibbs. football these days is a what can you do for me now business..period[/quote]


Are you insane! we "rebuild" every single year. new coach here, new player there. who have you been watching the last 10 years?

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

This Joe must go crap has to stop. The only fault I can see in the man is his loyalty to people. He was loyal to Brunell too long, and gave Saunders way to many games to get his offense working. Sauderns should have his ass chewed out big time today for allowing the momentum to turn early in the game when we could have ripped Atlanta's heart out. Saunders tries those stupid ass plays, when all we needed to do, was run right down their throats and go up 21-0 or at worst 17-0. but instead he brings out those reverse's , toss's and crap. Thats who needs to go. He does not fit in Washington!!

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=itvnetop;255267]we should keep the staff... this was a year full of new coaches and coordinators. if it takes a year for the offense to learn the saunders' playbook, then we keep him another season.

GW has proven that his system works... we just need to have a healthy springs next season and hopefully vernon fox will settle in a little more. the defensive line has some promise... the defense starts there- golston is a find and carter is finally getting some momentum. a healthy cornelius griffin makes all the difference in the world. the defense will be back next season, as long as everyone is good to go.

campbell will have had half a season and a full off season to play as the starter... portis will be refreshed. our wideouts will finally be on the same page. that's if we keep the system... sleep on it tonight- you don't want to overhaul everything. what we can do better from here on out is to build through the draft... i think the top heads now know we don't need to win the FA sweepstakes every offseason in order to be successful. start finding talent in the draft and keep the picks.[/quote]

Yes, and hopefully Rocky will step in at OLB. As for "i think the top heads now know we don't need to win the FA sweepstakes every offseason in order to be successful. start finding talent in the draft and keep the picks," I hope you're right, but I don't think so yet. Gibbs is a believer in free agency. Hopefully this past year will be enough to convince him that the draft is still superior in building a team. Sadly, the tuna & the cowpukes are one of the best examples of that.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;255303]I was just clarifying that Paul wants a change, the majority of us don't. You seemed to breeze over that important note regarding the intention of this thread.[/quote]


Oh no, Ive angered the great Matt, how dare I disagree with him as he is the LORD OF THE THREADS! Im still waiting for you to justify Joe Gibbs returning for a fourth season based on his performance the last three years, or you could just keep blindly saying that you have faith in Gibbs and never have an opinion based on any fact whatsoever. It wasn't just yesterday, the man's clock management and play calling have been horrible, even the guys on Skins radio cannot defend him. Yep, the guys that work for Dan Snyder cannot even defend Joe Gibbs' performance, but Matt and company can. God forbid someone has an opinion based on facts and performance which is contrary to the mob mentality on this board. Heaven forbid a fan calls for change, then they're not a true fan, right? Still waiting on the Gibbs defense based on performance.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=DGreen28;254845]Not GW but the GM needs to go. Bad trades and signings. Smoot, Pierce, Lavar, Clark, Bring in Arch[/QUOTE]

Um, ultimately, Joe Gibbs has the personnel power. He is the PRESIDENT!

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan;255319]Oh no, Ive angered the great Matt, how dare I disagree with him as he is the LORD OF THE THREADS! Im still waiting for you to justify Joe Gibbs returning for a fourth season based on his performance the last three years, or you could just keep blindly saying that you have faith in Gibbs and never have an opinion based on any fact whatsoever. It wasn't just yesterday, the man's clock management and play calling have been horrible, even the guys on Skins radio cannot defend him. Yep, the guys that work for Dan Snyder cannot even defend Joe Gibbs' performance, but Matt and company can. God forbid someone has an opinion based on facts and performance which is contrary to the mob mentality on this board. Heaven forbid a fan calls for change, then they're not a true fan, right? Still waiting on the Gibbs defense based on performance.[/QUOTE]

Well I don't want to speak for Matty, but I doubt you've angered him. I'm sure he's wondering though why you're still coming back if you said you were done.

Anyhow, I'll defend Gibbs coming back.

1. We made the playoffs last year (it's very possible only one team-Bears-that made the playoffs last year in the NFC will make it again this year)
2. We're trying to build consistency, making yet another change helps no one
3. Reasons one and two are enough for me

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

paulskinsfan,

it's not even worth arguing with these idiots who still think we are a great franchise. as painful as it is to admit, our beloved franchise is a JOKE!

and you are right, joe gibbs has to go. he brought in brunell. he paid GW. he can't control GW. he brought in AL. he let Ryan Clark get away. he let antonio pierce get away. and HE is responsible on game day... for EVERYTHING! he is the g'damn head coach and president of the team!

just like the many coaching experiments before, the "Joe Gibbs Experiment" is NOT working. and is not going to! we are in salary cap hell!

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=paulskinsfan;255319]Oh no, Ive angered the great Matt, how dare I disagree with him as he is the LORD OF THE THREADS! Im still waiting for you to justify Joe Gibbs returning for a fourth season based on his performance the last three years, or you could just keep blindly saying that you have faith in Gibbs and never have an opinion based on any fact whatsoever. It wasn't just yesterday, the man's clock management and play calling have been horrible, even the guys on Skins radio cannot defend him. Yep, the guys that work for Dan Snyder cannot even defend Joe Gibbs' performance, but Matt and company can. God forbid someone has an opinion based on facts and performance which is contrary to the mob mentality on this board. Heaven forbid a fan calls for change, then they're not a true fan, right? Still waiting on the Gibbs defense based on performance.[/quote]

Angered? Hardly.

I thought you were done anyway?

I've laid out my thoughts on the matter several times before in many other threads, and frankly I'm bored with this fire everyone, cut everyone attitude that comes with every loss. Props to you my man for being the lone dissenting voice. I guess the majority of us are just wrong because we aren't in favor of another coaching upheaval.

That's what this comes down to you know, I'll say the same thing that I've said a few times in this thread. I agree that Gibbs is not getting the job done right now. BUT, I'm not in favor of starting over at square one again with another coaching staff. Simple as that.

I never called in question your level of true fandom, you're really stretching things. Seems like you're the one that's sounding a tad angry.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=dall-assblows;254809]the man is a proven winner, its saunders fault. he is the one calling the plays.[/quote]


yep joe relinquished the playcalling as we all knew from the start didn,t we.
frm what i saw yesterday the defense stunk up the joint if you ask me.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;255327]Well I don't want to speak for Matty, but I doubt you've angered him. I'm sure he's wondering though why you're still coming back if you said you were done.

Anyhow, I'll defend Gibbs coming back.

1. We made the playoffs last year (it's very possible only one team-Bears-that made the playoffs last year in the NFC will make it again this year)
2. We're trying to build consistency, making yet another change helps no one
3. Reasons one and two are enough for me[/QUOTE]

If Gibbs and the team are trying to build consistency then why after making the playoff last years did they chuck it all and rebuild the O by bringing in AS? The notion that anyone in the organization is trying to be consistent is just not being born out by the facts.

It is sad that this organization is much closer to being the Cardinals than it is to being a powerhouse. How sad.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=irish;255336]If Gibbs and the team are trying to build consistency then why after making the playoff last years did they chuck it all and rebuild the O by bringing in AS? The notion that anyone in the organization is trying to be consistent is just not being born out by the facts.

It is sad that this organization is much closer to being the Cardinals than it is to being a powerhouse. How sad.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he thought he was rebuilding the O by bringing in Saunders. I think he thought he was just modernizing and enhancing it.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=mason4415;255330]paulskinsfan,

it's not even worth arguing with these idiots who still think we are a great franchise. as painful as it is to admit, our beloved franchise is a JOKE!

and you are right, joe gibbs has to go. he brought in brunell. he paid GW. he can't control GW. he brought in AL. he let Ryan Clark get away. he let antonio pierce get away. and HE is responsible on game day... for EVERYTHING! he is the g'damn head coach and president of the team!

just like the many coaching experiments before, the "Joe Gibbs Experiment" is NOT working. and is not going to! we are in salary cap hell![/quote]

Ahh the salary cap hell take. Haven't heard that one in a while.

Let's hear your analysis of why we are in cap hell and how far in cap hell we are, backed up by the numbers not just your opinion of the matter from what you've heard through the ignorant media who thinks we are always in cap hell or headed towards it.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;255332]Angered? Hardly.

I thought you were done anyway?

I've laid out my thoughts on the matter several times before in many other threads, and frankly I'm bored with this fire everyone, cut everyone attitude that comes with every loss. Props to you my man for being the lone dissenting voice. I guess the majority of us are just wrong because we aren't in favor of another coaching upheaval.

That's what this comes down to you know, I'll say the same thing that I've said a few times in this thread. I agree that Gibbs is not getting the job done right now. BUT, I'm not in favor of starting over at square one again with another coaching staff. Simple as that.

I never called in question your level of true fandom, you're really stretching things. Seems like you're the one that's sounding a tad angry.[/quote]


You honestly think you are in the majority of Skins fans? HA! Several people have piped up support, the others don't wanna endure an attack the way I have. And when I said "Im done" it meant I was done supporting Joe Gibbs and a system that DOES NOT WORK! Everytime someone questions the decisions of this inept coaching staff Matt and Company come riding to the defense and try to bully them off the board. Im in the minority? Right.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=paulskinsfan;255345]You honestly think you are in the majority of Skins fans? HA! Several people have piped up support, the others don't wanna endure an attack the way I have. And when I said "Im done" it meant I was done supporting Joe Gibbs and a system that DOES NOT WORK! Everytime someone questions the decisions of this inept coaching staff Matt and Company come riding to the defense and try to bully them off the board. Im in the minority? Right.[/quote]

Do you want to poll it??

I'd love to see how many people want Gibbs fired. I'm guessing it would be at least 60/40 in favor of keeping him. Wanna make a bet out of it?

Who are we trying to bully? Either you're really sensitive or just crazy. I have my opinions just like anyone else. I've never tried to bully anybody off the board. Don't be ridiculous, we can discuss this like adults.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=TAFKAS;255341]I don't think he thought he was rebuilding the O by bringing in Saunders. I think he thought he was just modernizing and enhancing it.[/quote]


Modernizing and enhancing it? He brought in Saunders with a 700 page playbook and completely gutted the old system. We went from smash mouth to panty wearing and gadget plays.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;255349]Do you want to poll it??

I'd love to see how many people want Gibbs fired. I'm guessing it would be at least 60/40 in favor of keeping him. Wanna make a bet out of it?[/quote]


Ohh so now Ive gone from a lone voice to representing 40% of all Skins fans? Wow! Put an unbiased poll up as to who is to blame for the current state of the Skins and we'll see what happens.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

We're 20-28 since Gibbs came back. Currently we have the same record as Green Bay, Houston, and Cleveland and only Oakland, Detroit, Tampa (who beat us), and Arizona have a worse record than us. Only 9 teams score fewer points than we do and only 6 teams allow more points than we do. We commit too many penalties and we give up too many big plays. I barely trust whatever kicker we happen to be starting on a given week to make an extra point, much less a 35+ yarder. This team seems to have no direction from week to week in terms of how it wants to play offense. We've run the same reverse play from the same spot on the field 3 weeks in a row. The entire defense spends every timeout and commercial break dancing around to the same the same 2 songs that they play over and over at FedEx rather than discussing what play they should run. And yesterday on [B]4th down and goal [/B]with time running out Gibbs was motioning to Campbell to [I]spike the ball[/I] because we had jsut ran on 3rd and got stuffed (I don't know if they showed that on TV but we could see it from the stands).

I said it earlier in the season: we need to forget about what Joe Gibbs did for us in the 80's because it's almost 2007 and this team looks like it's going nowhere. I'm not saying he needs to get fired, but he needs to tighten up and we all need to stop giving him a free pass for what he did last century.

and that's my rant

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

Start a poll, Matt or Paul. I'd like to see how people vote. Who's to blame for the team's woes? Let's poll it guys.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;255349]Do you want to poll it??

I'd love to see how many people want Gibbs fired. I'm guessing it would be at least 60/40 in favor of keeping him. Wanna make a bet out of it?

Who are we trying to bully? Either you're really sensitive or just crazy. I have my opinions just like anyone else. I've never tried to bully anybody off the board. Don't be ridiculous, we can discuss this like adults.[/QUOTE]

Because the only ACTIVE Skins fans that are left are the ones who have some kind blind faith in the franchise. Most everyone else has been turned off or are just simply disinterested at this point.

Re: Im done....Gibbs must go.
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;255341]I don't think he thought he was rebuilding the O by bringing in Saunders. I think he thought he was just modernizing and enhancing it.[/QUOTE]
I have to disagree with that. He brought in an offense that "takes a whole year to master." If we were in as good of shape for this season as we thought we were at the end of last(I hope that made sense) then why would we have made such a big change?