Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;326407]Medicaid has plenty of holes in it and needs reform, it's far from being "excellent"[/QUOTE]

Hold on...I didn't say it didn't have "holes" because some people that need it can't get it. However, when someone does get on it, it is excellent. That was my point.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;326409]This is pretty funny and was mentioned in the film

[url=http://bruisefalling.blogspot.com/2007/06/michael-moore-guardian-angel.html]Falling On A Bruise: Michael Moore: Guardian Angel[/url][/QUOTE]

But see, that's what I'm talking about with him. #1- he did it for a guy that was a Moore hater, meaning it was kind of spite thing. Also, Moore giving 12k is like me giving $1 to the homeless vet at wal mart. #2- He mentioned it in his movie because that will give him financial gain. Those who give should be anonymous, he had no intentions of doing so.

If he truely had honest intentions, then I will retract my statement, but I would wager anything he did not have honest intentions.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;326418]But see, that's what I'm talking about with him. #1- he did it for a guy that was a Moore hater, meaning it was kind of spite thing. Also, Moore giving 12k is like me giving $1 to the homeless vet at wal mart. #2- He mentioned it in his movie because that will give him financial gain. Those who give should be anonymous, he had no intentions of doing so.

If he truely had honest intentions, then I will retract my statement, but I would wager anything he did not have honest intentions.[/quote]

It wasn't out of spite, if you saw the movie you would understand the point of why he did it.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;326412]100% YES. In my scenario, that doctor worked his ass off, and being a doctor is freakin tough! Yes, he does deserve all the good things he gets.
On the flip side, the dumbass that isn't willing to work deserves to be homeless and without health care cause that's the lifestyle HE CHOSE!!! It is amazing to me that people want to give honest hardworking mans money away and give it to people that don't give a shit. That astounds me.



It's 100% none of your business what they do with their HARD EARNED money.
This statement is not always true, but is more true more often than not:
Those that have money have worked harder and smarter than those that have not.



Who says they NEED it? They deserve it for hard work.
How about this, I think in order for your ideas to work, you need to work 10 more hours a week for free, and you have to donate every hour of vacation time to those "less fortunate" (as you put it). If you did that, there would be no need for the extra healthcare needed to cover everyone.

ps- not all doctors are abnormally wealthy...fyi.



Well, in my scenario, I wouldn't go to the ex-burger flipper...but let's call it 40-50k.[/quote]


I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

So let me get this straight: Some of you are saying that the American Health Care system is working well and doesn't need to be changed and some of you are saying that is blows.
Moore doesn't attack any political party in this film..by the way...he disects the "system" and concludes that it is not working for the MAJORITY of the country.
I guess it just depends on who you talk to, doesn't it?
Some of you on here are getting mighty "defensive", though.. Hmmm.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;326455]I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.[/QUOTE]

Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=dblanch66;326462]Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.[/quote]

LOL

classic

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;326403]So while someone "deserves" a summer home and 2-3 luxury cars, that means on the flipside somebody else "deserves" to be homeless and without health care?

Personally I don't think things need to be so lopsided. I would think one home and one luxury car would be enough. If these people need such excessive luxuries, what is their true motivation for even being a doctor??

[/QUOTE]

Not sure what the exact numbers are, but according to a few med students I know, there's a big misconception that all doctors are living it up. Neurosurgeons, spinal surgeons, anesthesiologists and a few other specific doctors are compensated well. Most other doctors aren't getting paid their true worth.

Take into account the debt that every doctor incurs- they've got 200K in extra four years of school. After that, they're probably raking in about 35-40K in residencies (where they're staying up every third or fourth night). Being a doctor certainly calls for sacrifice and they should be rewarded way more than many other professions.

[URL="http://www.studentdoc.com/salaries.html"]Average salaries[/URL]

I know a doctor who practiced general surgery for 200K a year... told me with all the stress, work hours, etc- it wasn't nearly enough to compensate what they go through. Add malpractice insurance costs, it's no wonder doctors skip to the private sector as soon as possible.

I think there would be a significant drop-off in talent, should the private sector be taken away. Eliminating private hospitals doesn't solve the inefficiency of the general ones. I haven't seen Moore's film yet, but the UK's system isn't perfect. In fact, when I visited London pubs, health care problems were always a topic of conversation. In terms of Cuba, their system is simplified: health care is directed for a healthy work force. There's little to no care for the elderly, extreme illness, mental retardation, etc. Are American families ready to "let go" of their loved ones earlier? Even if we're covered, are we ready to wait an extra six months for a hip replacement? Are we ready to scrap the notion of mental health care? ADD/ADHD are myths in Cuba.

This country has the best medical education institutions, the best doctors and the highest technology (including medical and diagnostic equipment). Why else do so many wealthy people in universal systems rush here for care? (the wait is too long elsewhere). The problem isn't the care itself... it's access. And even then, illegal immigrants receive emergency treatment here. Every person (regardless of class status) can get treated... the discrepancy lies with how long it takes for a poor person to receive treatment or the degree a non-insured is monetarily wiped out after an emergency.

Oh yeah... and I do plan on watching "Sicko" ASAP. Moore's techniques grate my skull, but I think I'm intelligent enough to use his film as part of a larger critique on the system. He's at least done a great service sparking debate. Honestly, there's probably very few people (in both parties) that are probably so misanthropic that they'd really want the poor to die off without proper health care. In a utopian society, I'd want everyone to get treated for unprepared illness and disease without having to live the rest of their lives in debt. We've just got to remember that nothing is ever free... the other countries (EU nations, Canada, etc) don't face the same elements the US has (sheer size, immigration), so they can probably afford to have universal plans that work. It's great to say that the US just needs to scrap the current system, but the pragmatists still have to make it work.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;326102]and how the hell do you know what his intentions are? just because someone makes money when doing something, doesnt mean they arent trying to do the right thing[/QUOTE]

I agree. Now you and all your Bush bashing friends can apply this same rule(in spirit) to him.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;326455]I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.[/QUOTE]

Well, I just feel that everything in your life, you attracted somehow. Whether be from laziness, or no sense of urgency, or lack of self responsibility, which would describe 99% of all people on assistance.
I would be more than happy to help someone that had a completely random crappy issue happen to them. I would and have helped people that help themselves. I refuse to help people that have a hand out and are unwilling to help themselves and live like there are no repercussions.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=dblanch66;326457]So let me get this straight: Some of you are saying that the American Health Care system is working well and doesn't need to be changed and some of you are saying that is blows.
Moore doesn't attack any political party in this film..by the way...he disects the "system" and concludes that it is not working for the MAJORITY of the country.
I guess it just depends on who you talk to, doesn't it?
Some of you on here are getting mighty "defensive", though.. Hmmm.[/QUOTE]


I think we all know that the health care system has flaws, but to put the government in charge is lunacy.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=dblanch66;326462]Well, everyone knows that the folks in New Orleans should've jumped in their SUV's and driven to their summer homes (as suggested by Barbara Bush).
Poor people ALL deserve what they get, right JSarno and SBF? Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Jesus...PUSHOVERS! HA!
BLEEDING HEARTS...HA!
"SCREW THE POOR!! THEY DESERVE THEIR MISFORTUNE!"
Now..pass me that Beluga, James.[/QUOTE]

See, you guys all let life come to you don't you? To say something like this is crazy. There are poor people that try, but the majority will get ahead eventually. You just don't want to come to the conclusion that you or certain people CHOSE their lifestyle. Don't tell me people can't change their lives for the better...they can! They just don't cause of the bleeding hearst here always willing to give a hand out.
So here's a suggestion...instead of bitching about some of us that actually care to keep our hard earned money, why don't you all get together and donate to all the lazy people...oops, I mean less fortunate.

PS- Mother teresa, ghandi and Jesus never preyed on the hard workers to live.

pps- YES, those idiot in New Orleans KNEW the Hurricane was coming...had SEVERAL DAYS of warning but they CHOSE to stay. Are you getting the common point here? They CHOSE to stay...CHOSE it. They had every opportunity to leave, but CHOSE to stay. Because you were sarcastic about their "summer homes" etc...they were all offered shelter and food at the dome as well as other places.
You know...if you're in a flood and a guy with a boat comes by to help you and you say no...then a helicopter comes to help you and you don't get on it...you deserve to drown. (that's hypothetical by the way) Don't ignore the people willing to help...they did.
When I was in Hurricane Charlie, I took my life into my own hands...I also helped others by allowing them into my buddy's apartment cause they would likely be flooded. During a time like that, the human spirit comes out and will help out...those people had ample time...even people that came around with buses to help and they turned their noses at them. Stupidity.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326518]See, you guys all let life come to you don't you? To say something like this is crazy. There are poor people that try, but the majority will get ahead eventually. You just don't want to come to the conclusion that you or certain people CHOSE their lifestyle. Don't tell me people can't change their lives for the better...they can! They just don't cause of the bleeding hearst here always willing to give a hand out.
So here's a suggestion...instead of bitching about some of us that actually care to keep our hard earned money, why don't you all get together and donate to all the lazy people...oops, I mean less fortunate.

PS- Mother teresa, ghandi and Jesus never preyed on the hard workers to live.

pps- [B]YES, those idiot in New Orleans KNEW the Hurricane was coming...had SEVERAL DAYS of warning but they CHOSE to stay. Are you getting the common point here? They CHOSE to stay...CHOSE it. They had every opportunity to leave, but CHOSE to stay. Because you were sarcastic about their "summer homes" etc...they were all offered shelter and food at the dome as well as other places. [/B]You know...if you're in a flood and a guy with a boat comes by to help you and you say no...then a helicopter comes to help you and you don't get on it...you deserve to drown. (that's hypothetical by the way) Don't ignore the people willing to help...they did.
When I was in Hurricane Charlie, I took my life into my own hands...I also helped others by allowing them into my buddy's apartment cause they would likely be flooded. During a time like that, the human spirit comes out and will help out...those people had ample time...even people that came around with buses to help and they turned their noses at them. Stupidity.[/QUOTE]


This is truly idiotic. Bush didn't even know how bad it was until two days after it happened, and he's the president. The ignorance of this argument I think really demonstrates the narrowness of your thinking on this issue. I am truly truly stunned by your lack of compassion here Jsarno, and I think even the most staunch economic conservative would likely be shook by what you are suggesting.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;326531]This is truly idiotic. Bush didn't even know how bad it was until two days after it happened, and he's the president. The ignorance of this argument I think really demonstrates the narrowness of your thinking on this issue. I am truly truly stunned by your lack of compassion here Jsarno, and I think even the most staunch economic conservative would likely be shook by what you are suggesting.[/QUOTE]

Umm, they live 10+ feet BELOW SEA LEVEL! People all over the country were warning about this disaster years before it happened, they had 4 full days to evacuate, at worse, 2 full days. How much compassion should someone have when they aren't willing to get out of the way? Do you stand in the middle of the highway and then blame the vehicle that runs you over? Come on man...it's common sense.

I just really don't understand people that are so willing to defend idiots. (I understand that old bed ridden people perished and I do feel for that, they couldn't do anything about it) Other than that, if you have 2 feet would you not try to get out of the way of DEATH?
The fact that you are arguing that people should take their lives into their own hands by showing down a freakin hurricane is amazing. They knew the risk, they CHOSE to stay and face death.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326544]Umm, they live 10+ feet BELOW SEA LEVEL! People all over the country were warning about this disaster years before it happened, they had 4 full days to evacuate, at worse, 2 full days. How much compassion should someone have when they aren't willing to get out of the way? Do you stand in the middle of the highway and then blame the vehicle that runs you over? Come on man...it's common sense.

I just really don't understand people that are so willing to defend idiots. (I understand that old bed ridden people perished and I do feel for that, they couldn't do anything about it) Other than that, if you have 2 feet would you not try to get out of the way of DEATH?
The fact that you are arguing that people should take their lives into their own hands by showing down a freakin hurricane is amazing. They knew the risk, they CHOSE to stay and face death.[/QUOTE]


See, you don't understand that mobility is a privilege that comes with wealth. You don't understand that dirt poor people in New Orleans can't just up and move to Denver, or somewhere suitably above sea level. You don't understand that they can't relocate at the drop of a hat when it looks like a storm is coming. You deny the existence of the dirt poor man with no education who worked hard everyday of his life to carve his own tiny little piece of the pie, and lost it on that day. And what's most revolting to me is you feel no compassion and - incredibly - blame the victims. You know, you can feel bad about a tragedy without having to become a socialist.

How about Sudanese people? I mean, they know they are living in a war zone right? Why not move (like so many wealthy Iraqis already have). Where do you draw the line?

Anyway, something has to give with our health care system. The center can't hold, with all the baby boomers retiring in the numbers they are. Moore's film is important in that it brings up stuff we are going to have deal with sooner than later anyway.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;326582]See, you don't understand that mobility is a privilege that comes with wealth. You don't understand that dirt poor people in New Orleans can't just up and move to Denver, or somewhere suitably above sea level. You don't understand that they can't relocate at the drop of a hat when it looks like a storm is coming. You deny the existence of the dirt poor man with no education who worked hard everyday of his life to carve his own tiny little piece of the pie, and lost it on that day. And what's most revolting to me is you feel no compassion and - incredibly - blame the victims. You know, you can feel bad about a tragedy without having to become a socialist.[/quote]

OK, you obviously won't see it the way I do...to each his own. They had buses that came to get them, they CHOSE not to get on. Who's fault is that?
What you're saying is a cop out. If you're life is in danger, you should do all possible to save it, which include forethought. No one is saying move to Denver, the fact that you say that just shows you're not paying attention. I didn't say relocate, I said get on the damn bus that is trying to save you, and or go to the shelters that are feeding you and giving you shelter. Again, common sense...but I guess you don't beleive in common sense.

[quote]How about Sudanese people? I mean, they know they are living in a war zone right? Why not move (like so many wealthy Iraqis already have). Where do you draw the line?[/quote]

Are they Americans? No...so why would I profess they do anything? I am not talking about people across the planet. People in other countries are not privelaged like we are.

[quote]Anyway, something has to give with our health care system. The center can't hold, with all the baby boomers retiring in the numbers they are. Moore's film is important in that it brings up stuff we are going to have deal with sooner than later anyway.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, he's quite the humanitarian.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326594] ... but I guess you don't beleive in common sense.

[/QUOTE]

Maybe not but I do beleive in spell check.

Good night my friend. May you never find your life imperiled by a natural disaster.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326544]Umm, they live 10+ feet BELOW SEA LEVEL! People all over the country were warning about this disaster years before it happened, they had 4 full days to evacuate, at worse, 2 full days. How much compassion should someone have when they aren't willing to get out of the way? Do you stand in the middle of the highway and then blame the vehicle that runs you over? Come on man...it's common sense.

I just really don't understand people that are so willing to defend idiots. (I understand that old bed ridden people perished and I do feel for that, they couldn't do anything about it) Other than that, if you have 2 feet would you not try to get out of the way of DEATH?
The fact that you are arguing that people should take their lives into their own hands by showing down a freakin hurricane is amazing. They knew the risk, they CHOSE to stay and face death.[/QUOTE]

Where do you suggest they go? OZ? Neverland? Oh, wait, I know...Middle Earth!

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;326614]Maybe not but I do beleive in spell check.

Good night my friend. May you never find your life imperiled by a natural disaster.[/QUOTE]


Don't worry, I'll actually use my head and get out of the way if given a week to do so.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=dblanch66;326643]Where do you suggest they go? OZ? Neverland? Oh, wait, I know...Middle Earth![/QUOTE]

Had you been paying attention (I know...not a virtue that dems possess) then you'd see that they had a chance for a bus to take them away, and numerous shelters. But I guess some were too good for that, now they are gone.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326655]Had you been paying attention (I know...not a virtue that dems possess) then you'd see that they had a chance for a bus to take them away, and numerous shelters. But I guess some were too good for that, now they are gone.[/QUOTE]

I mean, I'm a Republican but there's no need to make a blanket statement about all Democrats because you disagree with one.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;326658]I mean, I'm a Republican but there's no need to make a blanket statement about all Democrats because you disagree with one.[/QUOTE]

Completely understand and not all dems have that issue...but oddly enough, you comprehend what is layed before you, and they didn't. I'm tired of repeating myself.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;326614]Maybe not but I do beleive in spell check.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, and by the way...if you're going to correct someone's spelling, you can at least get it right yourself.

I often mess up Believe and beleive and the and teh...something wrong with my typing skills...but no big deal.

Good night to you...and please remember to start your bleeding heart foundation and make sure you collect all sorts of money for people with no common sense. Cause if you're going to complain about it, the least you can do is be a leader / advocate for it right???

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;326544]Umm, they live 10+ feet BELOW SEA LEVEL! People all over the country were warning about this disaster years before it happened, they had 4 full days to evacuate, at worse, 2 full days. How much compassion should someone have when they aren't willing to get out of the way? Do you stand in the middle of the highway and then blame the vehicle that runs you over? Come on man...it's common sense.

I just really don't understand people that are so willing to defend idiots. (I understand that old bed ridden people perished and I do feel for that, they couldn't do anything about it) Other than that, if you have 2 feet would you not try to get out of the way of DEATH?
The fact that you are arguing that people should take their lives into their own hands by showing down a freakin hurricane is amazing. They knew the risk, they CHOSE to stay and face death.[/quote]

You really speak of things you know nothing off and I'm gonna call you on it. You're completely making a blanket statement about people whose circumstance you know nothing of.

You make everything sound so easy and effortless. Nothing in this world is that easy. Let me ask you, why are you on your second/third job in a few months as someone pointed out in the past? I mean, shouldn't you be a high powered executive by now rather than hopping from job to job?

There are ton of people out there that work hard and they don't go anywhere. It really pisses me off when people don't realize how fortunate they are. Realize your fortune and don't confuse the misfortune of others for stupidity.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=SmootSmack;326658]I mean, I'm a Republican but there's no need to make a blanket statement about all Democrats because you disagree with one.[/quote]

I'm curious, do Indians usually lean to the right or left.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=saden1;326675]I'm curious, do Indians usually lean to the right or left.[/QUOTE]

I think generally more to the left...but then I'm also Puerto Rican who lean a little more to the right. So I'm in middle.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=saden1;326673]You really speak of things you know nothing off and I'm gonna call you on it. You're completely making a blanket statement about people whose circumstance you know nothing of.

You make everything sound so easy and effortless. Nothing in this world is that easy. Let me ask you, why are you on your second/third job in a few months as someone pointed out in the past? I mean, shouldn't you be a high powered executive by now rather than hopping from job to job?

There are ton of people out there that work hard and they don't go anywhere. It really pisses me off when people don't realize how fortunate they are. Realize your fortune and don't confuse the misfortune of others for stupidity.[/QUOTE]


I'm always looking for something that will better me and my situation. Due to the fact that there is no opportunity here, I am actively seeking employment where there is opportunity. While I may have jumped here lately, I had 3 jobs in the past 10 years. I refuse to allow society to dictate what I should or should not do, and EVERYTHING I have, I have earned. I am not fortunate out of luck, I am fortunate out of hard work and dedication. Please do not confuse hardwork with luck. I am successful because of me. I will continue to be successful because of me. Does that sound arrogant...sure. I prefer to call it confidence cause I know everything I do has a consequence...sometimes it's positive and sometimes it's negative, but either way, I am the master of my own destiny.
My father never even graduated high school. Up until a year ago I was the only one in my family with a degree, and I am the only one with a Masters. Is it a coincidence that I make more money than anyone in my family? NOPE. I dedicated myself, and debted myself for that degree, my family was too shortsighted to see what would benefit them. I moved away from my family in Mass and came out to NM because I felt there was more opportunity here, and it's worked for me to this point. Why would I leave everything I know for a place I never stepped foot in? Because you can't keep your life on cruise control. You can do anything you want to do if you put your mind to it and don't become discouraged by obsticles...I'm living proof.
If you guys had any idea who my family is, you'd be shocked at how I turned out to be who I am. You can either follow the norm and bitch and moan about "misfortune", or you can take the bull by the horns and create your own life. Yes, it IS that easy. If you don't think so, you've already failed yourself.
Saden...there is more to life than just "working hard", you need to work smart too. Someone can bust their ass as a janitor for 30 years and retire making $12 an hour, did he work hard...absolutely...did he work smart...hell no. What's the difference between that guy and a successful guy? The successful guy knew there was something better out there for him and he worked hard to achieve it.
I love this quote:
"Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right."
Plain and simple...I can!

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Quoting Stewie Griffin I see (4:00 mark)

[YT]VUbc5Tih3YU[/YT]

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;326679]Quoting Stewie Griffin I see (4:00 mark)

[YT]VUbc5Tih3YU[/YT][/QUOTE]

Actually it's a Henry Ford quote. Stewie stole it from him.
[url=http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/contracts-agreements/3874550-1.html]"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford | Strategic Business Lawyer[/url]

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;326678]I'm always looking for something that will better me and my situation. Due to the fact that there is no opportunity here, I am actively seeking employment where there is opportunity. While I may have jumped here lately, I had 3 jobs in the past 10 years. I refuse to allow society to dictate what I should or should not do, and EVERYTHING I have, I have earned. I am not fortunate out of luck, I am fortunate out of hard work and dedication. Please do not confuse hardwork with luck. I am successful because of me. I will continue to be successful because of me. Does that sound arrogant...sure. I prefer to call it confidence cause I know everything I do has a consequence...sometimes it's positive and sometimes it's negative, but either way, I am the master of my own destiny.
My father never even graduated high school. Up until a year ago I was the only one in my family with a degree, and I am the only one with a Masters. Is it a coincidence that I make more money than anyone in my family? NOPE. I dedicated myself, and debted myself for that degree, my family was too shortsighted to see what would benefit them. I moved away from my family in Mass and came out to NM because I felt there was more opportunity here, and it's worked for me to this point. Why would I leave everything I know for a place I never stepped foot in? Because you can't keep your life on cruise control. You can do anything you want to do if you put your mind to it and don't become discouraged by obsticles...I'm living proof.
If you guys had any idea who my family is, you'd be shocked at how I turned out to be who I am. You can either follow the norm and bitch and moan about "misfortune", or you can take the bull by the horns and create your own life. Yes, it IS that easy. If you don't think so, you've already failed yourself.
Saden...there is more to life than just "working hard", you need to work smart too. Someone can bust their ass as a janitor for 30 years and retire making $12 an hour, did he work hard...absolutely...did he work smart...hell no. What's the difference between that guy and a successful guy? The successful guy knew there was something better out there for him and he worked hard to achieve it.
I love this quote:
"Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right."
Plain and simple...I can![/quote]

I don't mean fortune as in luck but rather circumstance, opportunity, and environment. One of your assumptions is that everyone has a chance to succeed. I'm glad you got where you are by working hard but I bet you if you think for a moment you can name 3 crucial events or opportunities in your life you can attribute your success to. To say you're where you are today ALL because of your hard work would be disingenuous.

I mean, compare yourself to people from Sudan. How do you think your life stacks up against theirs? Are they poor because they didn't work hard or because they aren't smart? The world isn't black and white like you make it out to be. It's many shades of gray filled with spots and [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHoDcj6wwMw"]squiggly[/URL] lines.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326655]Had you been paying attention (I know...not a virtue that dems possess) then you'd see that they had a chance for a bus to take them away, and numerous shelters. But I guess some were too good for that, now they are gone.[/QUOTE]

You are assuming that I am a "dem"? What's that a: "demigod"... a "demolition expert"...a
"de-mon"...a "demonstrative fellow"... a "demeter"...a "demure chap"...a "demandant"...a "demagogue"...a "demanding, demented, demiwolf"?
YOU GOT ME PEGGED!!!
Now, let's go shoot some tigers and club some seals.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

jsarno, while i feel I'm in the same boat as you, when it comes to hard work and basically over achieving, you fail to remember one thing. everyone cant be the chief. you need some Indians, also. that janitor making 12.00 an hour, we need him as much as the boss raking in six figures

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326682]Actually it's a Henry Ford quote. Stewie stole it from him.
[url=http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/contracts-agreements/3874550-1.html]"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford | Strategic Business Lawyer[/url][/QUOTE]

I already knew that. Thanks though

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;326518]pps- YES, those idiot in New Orleans KNEW the Hurricane was coming...had SEVERAL DAYS of warning but they CHOSE to stay. Are you getting the common point here? They CHOSE to stay...CHOSE it. They had every opportunity to leave, but CHOSE to stay. Because you were sarcastic about their "summer homes" etc...they were all offered shelter and food at the dome as well as other places.
You know...if you're in a flood and a guy with a boat comes by to help you and you say no...then a helicopter comes to help you and you don't get on it...you deserve to drown. (that's hypothetical by the way) Don't ignore the people willing to help...they did.
When I was in Hurricane Charlie, I took my life into my own hands...I also helped others by allowing them into my buddy's apartment cause they would likely be flooded. During a time like that, the human spirit comes out and will help out...those people had ample time...even people that came around with buses to help and they turned their noses at them. Stupidity.[/QUOTE]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...at all. Katrina shifted when it got into the Gulf. I left the city on the Monday before it hit, I went to sleep Sunday night and they were saying it would turn and cross Fla. It didn't and they had 1 day to leave. They had put a voluntary evacuation into effect days earlier, yes, but the funniest thing happened...they lived in a city and didn't own/couldn't afford cars. Buses didn't start coming until after the Hurricane and helicopters weren't stopping until well after the city was pumped.

Also, I know a few people who "lived" in the dome...most of them haven't been right since then. They were surrounded by overflowing toilets, people jumping from high rises and other people dying because they couldn't get medication. So I think it's about time you get off of your high horse about people who can't afford some of the amenities that you do.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;325557]What do you feel is the main reason that allegedly 70% more woman in America are dying in childbirth than in Europe?[/quote]

Our healthcare failures can be summed up in two distinct categories: [B]Accesibilty[/B] and [B]affordability[/B]. We can argue the merits, or lack thereof, of whether the government should get involved in private industry until we're blue in the face. But to the previous gentleman's point, the reason 70% more women in America are dying in childbirth is because either than can't afford proper healthcare (in the preventative stage) or it's just not accesible.

Yes, it's that simple and ,yes, the government should step in and do something about it.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

MOore went off on CNN
[url=http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Michael_Moore_shames_CNN_Blitzer_on_0709.html]The Raw Story | Michael Moore slams CNN, Wolf Blitzer on live TV[/url]

[url=http://www.breitbart.tv/html/2823.html]Breitbart.tv » Michael Moore Mocks Indian Anchor’s Name During On-Air Tirade Against CNN[/url]

I can't watch the video but tell me if it is any good.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

Nixson on healthcare..a must watch (at 2:00 min):

[YT]kiEVtxGtBqI[/YT]

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=firstdown;326142]For the people who think that the goverment should run health care please name one program that the goverment has that cost have not sky rocketed. Do we need some reform? Yes, but the federal goverment will only add to the problem. They have allready caused the price of health ins. to sky rocket by all the mandates they have required the heath ins. co. to provide under their policies. Drug addiction is one of the mandates and why should I be forced to buy this coverage if I do not use drugs?[/quote]
How come that the ones who think goverment should run health ins. always avoid this question? I also see same people who support Goverment run health care saying what a mess that the goverment made when Katrina hit and still want them to run health care which represents around 9% of our national spending.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=jsarno;326396]See, this is where I have a problem with this idea. Cause people assume cause Doctors (or any wealthy person) have money they should be ok to all of sudden be parted from their money. It's not right. They worked hard...harder than ANY of us here on this site. I busted my ass for an MBA in Finance, and I didn't even do a fraction of the work that Doctors do to get where they are. They deserve those 2nd or 3rd beamers, and the summer homes. They worked for it. I will never agree to taking money from hard working people. This is why I have fundamental issues with democrats.

So how about this...train the guys that are flipping your burgers right now to become doctors, then it will be OK to pay them subpar doctor salaries, and then all the people that "needed" health care that didn't have it can go to the ex burger flippers. That way you're not hurting current doctors, and your giving the little man a chance at making it big.
Just out of curiousity, how many of you want the ex burger flipper performing surgery on you?[/quote]

It probablly wouldn't be that big of a difference. People treat doctors like gods in this society. They're just people. How many of you know someone with a bad back that has said, "Doctor doesn't know what it is"? They are helpless against the most common of illnesses. It would be a big mistake to pretend that doctors are not a part of the problem. No offense to you SmootSmack, I'm sure your parents are those rare exceptions.

And to answer the question, no surgery for me period. I play the ball as it lies.

Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO
 

[quote=firstdown;326740]How come that the ones who think goverment should run health ins. always avoid this question? I also see same people who support Goverment run health care saying what a mess that the goverment made when Katrina hit and still want them to run health care which represents around 9% of our national spending.[/quote]

Honestly I'm not sure what the ultimate answer should be. Should health care be run by the gov't only, or should it be run by private industry and the gov't, or a does private industry just need more oversight by the gov't?

I really don't know, all I know is the system needs fixing.