Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Just to be clear, my stance on the receivers is as follows

-At this moment Santana Moss is unquestionably our most valuable wide receiver. When healthy, he's a game changer. I think he's perfectly capable of being a #1 WR. HOWEVER, he needs a solid #2 on the other side of the field from him. FURTHERMORE, he has not been able to stay consistently healthy.

-Randle El is a solid WR who is probably a bit in over his head trying to be a #2 WR. Particualarly when the #1 is Santana Moss

-I have the utmost respect for Caldwell, McCardell, and Thrash. Solid contributors who, for the most part, did their part. But two are gone. And the third probably needs to go soon. Plus we can't fall back on guys like that and the Jimmy Farris' of the world each time we have injuries to our wide receivers, which has happened plenty the last several years (Patten, Lloyd, ARE, Moss, Thrash all out for extended games)

-I'm sure Mix has plenty of potential. Let's see it

-Devin Thomas' upside is...unknown. I was stunned he fell to us.

-As is Malcolm Kelly's. Yet I think Kelly will have the more immediate impact. I think over the next several years, Moss and Thomas will be our star WRs. But they should be thanking Malcolm Kelly for making it easy for them. I was thrilled we got him when we got him.

-When I say no one to throw to, I mean if the starters are hurt.

-What I'd like to see this year. Moss 1, Kelly 2, ARE/Thomas 3 (and then we'll see about the rest)

-So I don't think my opinion has changed. I want to give Moss every opportunity to be the #1 WR. He's earned it. But he needs help and he needs to stay healthy.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;445417]The way some people talk here you'd think we didn't have Samuels, Kendall, Rabach, Thomas, and Jansen starting.

"But they're getting old, and can they stay healthy?" Fine, but it's not like ARE and Moss have found the fountain of youth or have shown a propensity to stay healthy.[/quote]

The way some people talk you would think the line has gone to complete shit.

Yes they're on the wrong side of 30 but we caught some bad breaks (literally) last year with Jansen and Thomas. I doubt we'll see another season where 2 of the 5 starters go down.

And I keep seeing people say we didn't address the line. Does Rinehart not count? Is Heyer not a good find from last year?

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=irish;445214]I dont think so. In fact I think WR was one of the areas where the Skins were in decent shape. I think O & D Line were way bigger needs than WR.[/quote]

I guess you didn't mind Moss and ARE combining for 4 TDs last year?

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;445440]Explain[/quote]I know your goal is to equalize the debate, but I'm wondering if anything has happened to your perception of Moss and Randle El to lead you to the conclusion that neither can be relied on for anything this year. Beyond the injury risk, I mean.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;445494]I guess you didn't mind Moss and ARE combining for 4 TDs last year?[/quote]I didn't because all the touchdowns went to Cooley, who just can't be covered in the red zone.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;445512]I know your goal is to equalize the debate, but I'm wondering if anything has happened to your perception of Moss and Randle El to lead you to the conclusion that neither can be relied on for anything this year. Beyond the injury risk, I mean.[/QUOTE]

My reception of Moss and Randle El?

Anyway, see post #161

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;445472]Just to be clear, my stance on the receivers is as follows

-At this moment Santana Moss is unquestionably our most valuable wide receiver. When healthy, he's a game changer. I think he's perfectly capable of being a #1 WR. HOWEVER, he needs a solid #2 on the other side of the field from him. FURTHERMORE, he has not been able to stay consistently healthy.

-Randle El is a solid WR who is probably a bit in over his head trying to be a #2 WR. Particualarly when the #1 is Santana Moss

-I have the utmost respect for Caldwell, McCardell, and Thrash. Solid contributors who, for the most part, did their part. But two are gone. And the third probably needs to go soon. Plus we can't fall back on guys like that and the Jimmy Farris' of the world each time we have injuries to our wide receivers, which has happened plenty the last several years (Patten, Lloyd, ARE, Moss, Thrash all out for extended games)

-I'm sure Mix has plenty of potential. Let's see it

-Devin Thomas' upside is...unknown. I was stunned he fell to us.

-As is Malcolm Kelly's. Yet I think Kelly will have the more immediate impact. I think over the next several years, Moss and Thomas will be our star WRs. But they should be thanking Malcolm Kelly for making it easy for them. I was thrilled we got him when we got him.

-When I say no one to throw to, I mean if the starters are hurt.

-What I'd like to see this year. Moss 1, Kelly 2, ARE/Thomas 3 (and then we'll see about the rest)

-So I don't think my opinion has changed. I want to give Moss every opportunity to be the #1 WR. He's earned it. But he needs help and he needs to stay healthy.[/quote]Alright, so maybe the "if you don't have anyone to throw" to clause doesn't apply to the Redskins, then?

Just clarifying/playing devil's advocate.

I would also like to see Kelly and Moss start, but early on this year, it seems to be more likely to be Randle El and Moss.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Sorry I'll spell out my position more clearly from the beginning for you next time

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Ten biggest winners
1. Jason Campbell, quarterback, Washington -- He implored management to deliver big receivers in the draft, and it responded with tight end Fred Davis and Oklahoma's Malcolm Kelly. Nice. Better yet, the Redskins added Michigan State's Devin Thomas, who might be the best receiver out there.

[url=http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10802075]National Football League - CBSSports.com[/url]

I can't say I'd ever heard Campbell make this request. But he definitely emerged a winner.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;445513]I didn't because all the touchdowns went to Cooley, who just can't be covered in the red zone.[/quote]

That still doesn't change the overall ineffectiveness of Moss and ARE when it comes to the red zone. It's great that we have Cooley but how much more dangerous could we be with multiple options in that area?

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;445551]That still doesn't change the overall ineffectiveness of Moss and ARE when it comes to the red zone. It's great that we have Cooley but how much more dangerous could we be with multiple options in that area?[/quote]A little bit, but ultimately, none of these picks help the running game (well, Rinehart should, and to an extent, so does Davis), and that was the real problem in the red zone.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;445551]That still doesn't change the overall ineffectiveness of Moss and ARE when it comes to the red zone. It's great that we have Cooley but how much more dangerous could we be with multiple options in that area?[/quote]

I think we will see a drastic change in our red zone production. While it might take these young pups time to develop I think Davis and Kelly especially are going to be huge red zone threats starting on day 1. That's literally what they do best with regards to skill set.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;445553]A little bit, but ultimately, none of these picks help the running game (well, Rinehart should, and to an extent, so does Davis), and that was the real problem in the red zone.[/QUOTE]

I think these moves do help Portis. With these bigger targets and multiple formations in the red zone, teams will no longer stack the box to stuff Portis. CP was the obvious target inside the 5. These additions should open things up for him across the field.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=itvnetop;445565]I think these moves do help Portis. With these bigger targets and multiple formations in the red zone, teams will no longer stack the box to stuff Portis. CP was the obvious target inside the 5. These additions should open things up for him across the field.[/QUOTE]

Does anyone remember previous discussion about Portis? He wants to be part of the passing game and I think he will have a better opportunity thanks to our picks.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;445486]The way some people talk you would think the line has gone to complete shit.

Yes they're on the wrong side of 30 but we caught some bad breaks (literally) last year with Jansen and Thomas. I doubt we'll see another season where 2 of the 5 starters go down.

And I keep seeing people say we didn't address the line. Does Rinehart not count? Is Heyer not a good find from last year?[/QUOTE]

Jansen even when he was healthy was being pushed all over the place his better day's are behind him, Thomas will hopefully make a full recovery, but I don't see anything remotly special in Heyer, he looked to slow a foot, maybe he developes into a nice backup, but I don't see him as a starter. Maybe Alexander and Rhinhart become starters but IMO we needed a right tackle to groom behind Jansen it doesn't sound like that is the long term plan with Rhinehart.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;445494]I guess you didn't mind Moss and ARE combining for 4 TDs last year?[/QUOTE]

I think a lot of that had to do with the playcalling and QB.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I think if you have guys like Caldwell and McCardell playing key roles along with 2 starters who went half the season with no TDs, you've got some issues at WR.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

B-

We did a brilliant job trading picks, we got a lot of great value out of our picks, we addressed some key needs, but we also ignored some key needs, and I'm not particularly impressed with the Colt Brennan pick. If we had addressed our D-line earlier I would not hesitate to give the Skins an A+.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Our Wr's production was completely dictated by the play calling and QB. Just look at Patten... he sucked for us and now he is the #2 in N.O. and is doing alright for himself... Stats are not a good way to evaluate Wr's (ie: Moss was still the best in the league with the Raiders even though his stats weren't good)

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=irish;445661]I think a lot of that had to do with the playcalling and QB.[/QUOTE]

and lack of depth when we had injuries

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;445271]LOL! You don't trust anyone from small schools?? If I went down the list of small school players that went on the become great NFL players we'd be here all day. But I'll give you one that's going into Canton this Aug. Darrell Green![/quote]

Ok so the list reads as follows.....

1. Darrell Green

Oh no we're doomed. Theres only one player on the list. Chad Rhinehart is going to show up to Redskin park look at his helmet and go, What is this suppose to do.

"Oh you wear it to protect your head"

"We never had those at Northern Iowa"

"What Helmets?"

"Well that and those things, I can't keep my eyes off them."

"What Cheerleaders?"

"No hot girls. Oh yeah we never had a big stack of paper either"

"You didn't have a playbook?!??!?!? Why did we draft you?"

"Cuz I'm Big"

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;446006]Ok so the list reads as follows.....

1. Darrell Green[/QUOTE]

Walter Payton

Jerry Rice

Gary Clark

Charles Haley

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Meanwhile during practice Joe Bugel is teaching former App State standout Kearry Brown how to pull.

"OK Kearry now I'm going to teach you proper pulling technique, now you want to turn your body by flicking your elbow back and..."

"Coach, why are you teaching me to pull without a gun?"

"What? NO not that type of pulling"

"Well what type of pulling is there. I mean I've seen a horse pulling a wagon but thats about it."

"All right then I'm going to teach you pig wrestling right and pig wrestling left"

"Great coach"

"Now when I say pig wrestling right you're going to go right and hit the first "pig" you see"

"Awesome all right I'm ready,........which way is right?"

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I give it a B. We did get some solid picks, but in my mind should have used our first 3 picks to address the D line and another S. We did get some nice young WR's and Brennan might be useful if JC goes down again this season or next. Not sure how long the FO is going to keep Collins around.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I understand that the Skins are trying to emphasize their offensive needs. But I think we need to put in more effort on our ageing defensive line or a replacement for #21.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I have warmed up to the three pass catchers we took in the second round, but which would you have rather had, the three second rounders we took or... Mike Jenkins in round 1, Malcolm Kelly in round 2, and another pick in round three that could have been used on D-Line depth. Again, I have warmed to the trade we made and the picks it brought, I just think we could have done better in the first three rounds. That is why I voted a B overall.