Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=J. Spanky;458088]with the addition of taylor, the steady improvement we've seen from montgomery and wilson, carter's consistency, griff's ability when healthy and (fingers crossed) the possibility of a healthy erasmus james, is it possible that the d-line could (gasp!) suddenly become the strength of our defense???[/quote]

The D-line was underrated last year. From a pass rushing point of view the line is definitely much improved now. JT isn't a slouch against the run either.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;458092]The D-line was underrated last year. From a pass rushing point of view the line is definitely much improved now. [B]JT isn't a slouch against the run either.[/B][/quote]Yes, yes he is. Pretty much has been his whole career.

Not lazy, or unwilling to improve. Just brutally ineffective.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

2 season ending injuries in the first day? Its called a warmup people... you know they are in shape so that can't be it. We got lucky by finding someone of this caliber so quickly. Jesus it took what like 2 hours?!? Just a few back and forths with Parcells and poof... JT. As always comcast sportsnet has a bunch of great videos following training camp and the trade.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

So unless a backup is capable of starting he's of no use to a team?

There are guys on every team that aren't starting material but they fill critical roles. Evans is still going to fill an important role.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;458091]This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. Why the hell is Evans even on the damn team in the first place? Just to be a back-up? I think we would've been just fine with Evans starting and then have James and Wilson back him up along with the 7th rounder Jackson in the mix.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;458091]This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...[b]we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night.[/b] Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

[b]I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.[/b][/QUOTE]
Wow, do you try to be negative all the time or does it just come naturally?

How are we 'forfeiting the entire season' by getting a better, younger player than the one he replaced? Has ANYONE said that Evans would be a suitable replacement?

How can anyone project that a 2nd and 6th round picks will cost us 2-3 wins over a 3 year span? How many games did Taylor Jacobs win us? He was a 2nd round pick. How about Nehemiah Broughton? He was a 6th round pick.

The gaps in logic are mind blowing!!

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;458095]So unless a backup is capable of starting he's of no use to a team?

There are guys on every team that aren't starting material but they fill critical roles. Evans is still going to fill an important role.[/quote]No, unless he's capable of playing.

Obviously [U]if he's capable of playing at this level, he can start in a pinch.[/U] If he can't start in a pinch, what capable role could he fill? That's basically just saying that he's only effective when he spends more time off the field than on it. That's not showing any confidence in the guys' abilities.

I think Evans has proven more than enough in limited time to warrant a longer look, but looks like we're going to have none of that here.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

This was a good deal. The Skins desperately needed to bolster their defense line and Jason Taylor was the best player available. At the beginning of training camp, there are very few quality players available. Even thought Taylor is undersized, he has proven to be a great athlete and a very good all around defensive end. I know a lot of people are concerned he weakens the defense against the run and I don't think that will be the case. Taylor will hold his own.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;458095]So unless a backup is capable of starting he's of no use to a team?

There are guys on every team that aren't starting material but they fill critical roles. Evans is still going to fill an important role.[/quote]

I think Evans is very capable of starting. You don't think so?

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;458096]My thoughts exactly. [b]Why the hell is Evans even on the damn team in the first place? Just to be a back-up?[/b] I think we would've been just fine with Evans starting and then have James and Wilson back him up along with the 7th rounder Jackson in the mix.[/QUOTE]

YES!!!!! Do you guys not comprehend the concept of backups? There's no team that has 30 starting caliber players! There are starters and backups. Like there are bosses and secretaries. Not everyone is at the level to be a starter in the NFL. For whatever reason-lack of strength, speed, stamina, whatever-Evans is NOT a starter in the NFL.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

There's a big difference between starting in pinch which Evans is certainly capable of and becoming a full-time starter. I like Evans, but if he had to start 16 games I'd be concerned.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;458093]Yes, yes he is. Pretty much has been his whole career.

Not lazy, or unwilling to improve. Just brutally ineffective.[/QUOTE]

Somehow he was effective enough to be NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 2006. Somehow he is effective enough to be consistently ranked among the best at his position.

I see your point about the run defense maybe dropping off a notch. But the pass defense just got raised three or four notches, I'll take that trade off.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

Jason Taylor will make everyone around him better. We had no one worth double teaming on our line. Carter stepped up at the end of the year and may have started to get double teamed. If anything now jason taylor will continue to be double teamed and open up opportunities for the other 3 linemen to get to the QB.

Ive always thought Andre Carter was in the mold of Jason Taylor, but hadnt learned all the technique yet. Well now he will learn first hand. No one heard of Adowale Ogunleye (sp) and Taylor turned him into a sack machine by takign the double teams to his side.

Im sooo happy we finally have a pass rush with our front four. We need that pressure even more so being thin at corner.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=Paintrain;458097]Wow, do you try to be negative all the time or does it just come naturally?

How are we 'forfeiting the entire season' by getting a better, younger player than the one he replaced? Has ANYONE said that Evans would be a suitable replacement?

How can anyone project that a 2nd and 6th round picks will cost us 2-3 wins over a 3 year span? How many games did Taylor Jacobs win us? He was a 2nd round pick. How about Nehemiah Broughton? He was a 6th round pick.

The gaps in logic are mind blowing!![/quote]Sorry, but you're wrong here.

I also think you need to be more careful when you read (or maybe I need to be more careful when I write). The team could have just plugged in Evans, but they felt that was a worst case scenario (so they went out and got Taylor). I'm only questioning their logic that Evans would have been a worst case scenario.

It's going to cost us games in the future because we're old. The idea is that if we use the 2nd round pick wisely, we could improve the team in the long run, which we can't do now. 2-3 wins in a 3 year span isn't a big deal, I don't think, but it's still sort of mortgaging the future.

Also, good work assuming that every 2nd and 6th round pick will net talent the equivalent of Taylor Jacobs and Nemo. That's pretty pessimistic of you.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

Evans aint the answer folks...he's a backup...to start, he'd need further grooming...
Ideal scenario is Evans plays situationally for a couple years and develops into a starter before JT retires....however.....Evans aint ready to start for the whole season yet....1 or 2 games maybe...but that is why he's a backup.

I am glad JT was available...I was just hoping we'd pay a lower price

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=memphisskin;458104]Somehow he was effective enough to be NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 2006. Somehow he is effective enough to be consistently ranked among the best at his position.

I see your point about the run defense maybe dropping off a notch. But the pass defense just got raised three or four notches, I'll take that trade off.[/quote]I think it makes our defense significantly better this year. Daniels wasn't very good at all against the run last year, and though Taylor isn't an improvement in that respect, he will bring plenty of additional pass rush that we wouldn't have had otherwise.

If we make the playoffs this year, I think the move will justify itself. If we don't make the playoffs, then it probably wasn't a good idea. There's no doubt we're a better team now than we were yesterday, but better doesn't mean we become favorites in the division or anything.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

I'm really not sure how losing a 2nd and a 6th equates to losing 2-3 games down the road, that's purely speculative.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;458072]Sorry but dancing does not get you in football shape. If his head and heart were 100% into football he wouldn't be going on dancing shows. I know I'm in the minority but to me that's just awful.[/quote]

Some of the best players have used non traditional methods of getting themselves into shape.
[url=http://www.slate.com/id/2124158/]Dancing, yoga-doing football players. - By Neal Pollack - Slate Magazine[/url]
It could be said the added flexibility Taylor gained from doing the Pasa Doble this offseason will help him get closer to the ground as he breaks around the LT.

This is a great trade, kudos to the FO for getting it done so expeditiously.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;458106]Sorry, but you're wrong here.

I also think you need to be more careful when you read (or maybe I need to be more careful when I write). The team could have just plugged in Evans, but they felt that was a worst case scenario (so they went out and got Taylor). I'm only questioning their logic that Evans would have been a worst case scenario.

It's going to cost us games in the future because we're old. The idea is that if we use the 2nd round pick wisely, we could improve the team in the long run, which we can't do now. 2-3 wins in a 3 year span isn't a big deal, I don't think, but it's still sort of mortgaging the future.

Also, good work assuming that every 2nd and 6th round pick will net talent the equivalent of Taylor Jacobs and Nemo. That's pretty pessimistic of you.[/QUOTE]
It read as if we were forfeiting the season by trading for Taylor so my mistake if it was misinterpreted. I don't know that they felt that putting Evans in there was a worst case scenario, it was just obvious that Taylor was a better case scenario! Look, it's not like they traded 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for a scrub. Right player, right situation, right price. It's a winning deal.

I wasn't assuming that every 2nd and 6th pick equates to Jacobs or Nemo, just pointing out that it's not a guarantee that they will pan out, reflecting your 2-3 win argument.

Yes building thru the draft is ideal, but in a scenario where you can get one of the top players at his position in the game to fill an immediate need for a reasonable price, you do it, every time.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=Paintrain;458102]YES!!!!! Do you guys not comprehend the concept of backups? There's no team that has 30 starting caliber players! There are starters and backups. Like there are bosses and secretaries. Not everyone is at the level to be a starter in the NFL. For whatever reason-lack of strength, speed, stamina, whatever-Evans is NOT a starter in the NFL.[/quote]This is pretty ridiculous. Not the fact that there are starters and backups on every team. That much is obvious. What I find ridiculous is the notion that players can't move between the designations in your mind: once a player is a backup, he's a backup for life, and if he's a starter, he's earned a starting job for life.

Demetric's been a pretty good backup, which means on about 27 teams in the NFL, if the starter goes down, he gets first crack to prove he can hold the fort...[B]as a starter[/B]. We apparently aren't one of those 27 teams.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;458108]I think it makes our defense significantly better this year. [B]Daniels wasn't very good at all against the run last year,[/B] and though Taylor isn't an improvement in that respect, he will bring plenty of additional pass rush that we wouldn't have had otherwise.

If we make the playoffs this year, I think the move will justify itself. If we don't make the playoffs, then it probably wasn't a good idea. There's no doubt we're a better team now than we were yesterday, but better doesn't mean we become favorites in the division or anything.[/QUOTE]

I sometimes agree with you Tripp...but this one kinda confuses me.
Can you tell us if this is your opinion or fact?
Hell...they put him at DT...and that job is almost exclusively stopping the run.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;458091]This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.[/quote]

Picking up Jason Taylor says nothing about Demetric Evans ability to play. When you lose two players for the season at the same position, you have to act quickly and fill those roster spots. It just so happen that a former All-Pro is available. It makes sense to me to upgrade at that position. I would say that Jason Taylor is an upgrade over a healthy Phillips McDaniel. Demetric Evans still has a big role on this team and will have plenty of opportunities to contribute. The combination of Taylor and Carter will allow the Redskins to get a push from both ends in their base defense, something they didn't get in the past few seasons. They always had to go to a pass rushing specialist in obvious passing situations.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

I'm not sure how you can say that just using D. Evans, instead of trading for J. Taylor would have been a better move. Evans hasn't had the opportunity to start 16 games, hell he's probably started maybe 4 his whole career, while Taylor is a proven Pro Bowl starter. Taylor has signed on for at least a two year stint, allowing all the ends to learn from him. On top of this, we have created more depth on the D Line, proven depth might I add. Whats to say that had we not traded for Taylor, putting our trust in Evans, and he couldn't manage? I mean I thought it would be better to get a sure thing, than hope for a backup to be starting calibre

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;458113]This is pretty ridiculous. Not the fact that there are starters and backups on every team. That much is obvious. What I find ridiculous is the notion that players can't move between the designations in your mind: once a player is a backup, he's a backup for life, and if he's a starter, he's earned a starting job for life.

Demetric's been a pretty good backup, which means on about 27 teams in the NFL, if the starter goes down, he gets first crack to prove he can hold the fort...[B]as a starter[/B]. We apparently aren't one of those 27 teams.[/quote]

So... let's say you were the GM. Daniels goes down on the first day of camp. You have $9M or so in your back pocket. Jason Taylor is in Miami just dying to get out of town. Are you really going to say nah, we don't need this move. Give the starting job to Demetric Evans?

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;458106]Sorry, but you're wrong here.

I also think you need to be more careful when you read (or maybe I need to be more careful when I write). The team could have just plugged in Evans, but they felt that was a worst case scenario (so they went out and got Taylor). I'm only questioning their logic that Evans would have been a worst case scenario.

It's going to cost us games in the future because we're old. The idea is that if we use the 2nd round pick wisely, we could improve the team in the long run, which we can't do now. 2-3 wins in a 3 year span isn't a big deal, I don't think, but it's still sort of mortgaging the future.

Also, good work assuming that every 2nd and 6th round pick will net talent the equivalent of Taylor Jacobs and Nemo. That's pretty pessimistic of you.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on the draft pick, it is costly. But I think it was the lesson of last year, when we assumed we could just plug Todd Wade in at guard and Buges would "coach 'em up." We are in essence spending tomorrow's 2nd and 6th round picks for a DE because we did not spend them at any time in the past. Maybe now we'll start focusing on the trenches on draft day, make some unsexy picks, like guard or tackle, instead of the splashy wide outs and 2nd tight ends.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=Paintrain;458112]I wasn't assuming that every 2nd and 6th pick equates to Jacobs or Nemo, just pointing out that it's not a guarantee that they will pan out, reflecting your 2-3 win argument. [/quote]Well, the average production of a 2nd round pick tends to give a team between 2 and 3 wins over the life of his rookie contract, which is what I was referencing. A star in the making is obviously going to produce much more, and a bust will produce near nothing.

I don't want to make it seem like the team is incapable of picking a bust, but they've done a good job with the draft thus far in the last 5 years.

I don't think Taylor is going to be here and productive long enough to give us value on our 2nd round pick. I really, really would love to be proven wrong here, of course. It's just that I've seen this episode before, and I'm less than impressed at the sequel.

Taylor is still a pass rushing force, which should give the team an extra 7-8 sacks over what they would have gotten with Evans. Next year, Evans and Daniels will probably move on, and we'll have to replace them with the draft. That's when it would have been really nice to have a 2nd round pick to do so with.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;458113]This is pretty ridiculous. Not the fact that there are starters and backups on every team. That much is obvious. What I find ridiculous is the notion that players can't move between the designations in your mind: once a player is a backup, he's a backup for life, and if he's a starter, he's earned a starting job for life.

Demetric's been a pretty good backup, which means on about 27 teams in the NFL, if the starter goes down, he gets first crack to prove he can hold the fort...[B]as a starter[/B]. We apparently aren't one of those 27 teams.[/QUOTE]
And if this happens Week 3, then he'd probably get that chance, but day 2 of training camp when there is a better option out there at a reasonable price, you take the better option.

If you're driving a '00 Jetta that breaks down and you have the option for a free '04 Dodge Neon or a '02 Mercedes for $1,000 that you have to spend, are you taking the '04 Dodge Neon? Sure it gets you from A to B, but it's a friggin Dodge Neon and the Benz is a better car than you had initially and is affordable. I know that's not a direct comparison but c'mon dude, wake up..

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=memphisskin;458118]I agree with you on the draft pick, it is costly. But I think it was the lesson of last year, [B]when we assumed we could just plug Todd Wade in at guard and Buges would "coach 'em up."[/B] We are in essence spending tomorrow's 2nd and 6th round picks for a DE because we did not spend them at any time in the past. Maybe now we'll start focusing on the trenches on draft day, make some unsexy picks, like guard or tackle, instead of the splashy wide outs and 2nd tight ends.[/quote]Yeah that was a pretty big assumption.

Kendall though, only cost us a 5th round pick in 2009. That's a fine price to pay to fill a hole for two seasons.

I understand that we were paying a premium on Taylor because he's a great player, but that raises the bar on him. 8.5 sacks won't cut it this year. We really need 11 or 12 because we put a lot of faith in him giving up that second rounder.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=skinsnut;458079]Here are my thoughts

1. We paid too much with a 2nd and a 6th....I dont know what that amounts too by draft points...but its probably close to a low 1st for 2 years max.[/quote]
If we have the # 20 pick in the draft. A 2nd and 6th translates into 400 points or giving up the # 50 overall pick rather than # 52. I would've liked to get away with a 3rd & 6th, but the Fins leverage went way up yesterday.

[quote]2. The other problem with giving up a 1st day pick is this....that was the pick we needed for a long term DE...yes, you can say we can do this with our 1st...but cmon....we need a CB and those go high...we also need DT and Oline pretty bad...not to mention LB's.[/quote]There are these things called free agents also. And how are we going to fill needs at DE, CB, DT & OL with our 1st round pick? There is no team in the NFL that doesn't have depth or talent issues at one position or another. This is the nature of the cap & FA. Some folks have mentioned the Giants great depth at DL, but their secondary scares no one and what if a starting CB goes down. What if Moss goes down for the Patriots, their WRs look pretty average. NEs secondary is also average or worse without Samuel.

[quote]3. I am now concerned about running D...Daniels was no sack master...but he sure did well against the run....perhaps evans can help out but do you really want AC or JT on the bench?....what we need now is a STUD DT and a solid OLB to cover for Griffen and Rocky....to me...the needs just went up there.[/quote]
If we stay with an aggressive Cover 1 as our base D with the SS close to the LOS, this scheme should be fine against the run and will cover Taylor. We have needs to replace Griffen and with Rocky's knees, but the injury to Daniels did nothing to increase or decrease those needs.

[quote]5 This one really pisses me off.....our training staff.....last year we lost tons of guys for cramps and muscle pulls...injuries attributable to hydration and stretching.....NOW we lose 2 guys that arguably could have been avoided if they were loosened up more.
I dont blame the training staff....but...this is definately a trend that has not stopped which almost killed our season last year.[/quote]We did? When?

Campbell - dislocated kneecap
Carlos Rogers - torn ACL & MCL
Thomas - torn tricep
Jansen - broken ankle
Washington - dislocated elbow
Daniels - foot
Moss - groin, heel
Thrash - ankle

The training staff couldn't do anything to prevent the above injuries. Moss has had injury issues with his hammy in the past. There were some guys with hammy issues, but none missed any significant time or more than one game. I'm sure we had no more of a problem with this than any other team. Since the training staff is not restricted by $$$ or cap, you can be sure the Skins have one of the best staffs in the NFL. Not a fair attack on the training staff IMO.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;458120]Well, the average production of a 2nd round pick tends to give a team between 2 and 3 wins over the life of his rookie contract, which is what I was referencing. A star in the making is obviously going to produce much more, and a bust will produce near nothing.

I don't want to make it seem like the team is incapable of picking a bust, but they've done a good job with the draft thus far in the last 5 years.

I don't think Taylor is going to be here and productive long enough to give us value on our 2nd round pick. I really, really would love to be proven wrong here, of course. It's just that I've seen this episode before, and I'm less than impressed at the sequel.

Taylor is still a pass rushing force, which should give the team an extra 7-8 sacks over what they would have gotten with Evans. Next year, Evans and Daniels will probably move on, and we'll have to replace them with the draft. That's when it would have been really nice to have a 2nd round pick to do so with.[/QUOTE]


One thing I will point out is that Vinny Cerrato is confident that Jason Taylor will not only play out the contract, but probably even extended in Washington. If that happens, how will your opinion change?

NOTE: I do disagree with you on this issue, but this post is not an attack. I find your use of metric intriguing and would like to know your answer on this subject.

As an aside: are you a baseball fan at all? Just wondering because metrics are used heavily in player evaluation in baseball.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=Paintrain;458122]And if this happens Week 3, then he'd probably get that chance, but day 2 of training camp when there is a better option out there at a reasonable price, you take the better option.

If you're driving a '00 Jetta that breaks down and you have the option for a free '04 Dodge Neon or a '02 Mercedes for $1,000 that you have to spend, are you taking the '04 Dodge Neon? Sure it gets you from A to B, but it's a friggin Dodge Neon and the Benz is a better car than you had initially and is affordable. I know that's not a direct comparison but c'mon dude, wake up..[/quote]

I'll take the Benz.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=Paintrain;458102]YES!!!!! Do you guys not comprehend the concept of backups? There's no team that has 30 starting caliber players! There are starters and backups. Like there are bosses and secretaries. Not everyone is at the level to be a starter in the NFL. For whatever reason-lack of strength, speed, stamina, whatever-Evans is NOT a starter in the NFL.[/quote]

Of couse I do. Last year the back up QB for this team played better than the starter. Ryan Grant came in off the bench and played better than any the GB starters. Betts came in and played just as good as Portis did in 06. Willie Parker was undrafted FA and came in off the bench when Bettis got hurt. Tom Brady came in for Bledsoe. Need I go on???? Cause I could be here all day talking about back-ups who just needed a chance.

My point is every single year a back-up or an unknown player comes in and shocks everyone. Derek Anderson is another the perfect example.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=Paintrain;458122]And if this happens Week 3, then he'd probably get that chance, but day 2 of training camp when there is a better option out there at a reasonable price, you take the better option.

If you're driving a '00 Jetta that breaks down and you have the option for a free '04 Dodge Neon or a '02 Mercedes for $1,000 that you have to spend, are you taking the '04 Dodge Neon? Sure it gets you from A to B, but it's a friggin Dodge Neon and the Benz is a better car than you had initially and is affordable. I know that's not a direct comparison but c'mon dude, wake up..[/quote]I just think the team is overvaluing it's chances of competing this season.

And yes, those chances just got significantly better. But I think we can agree that this move, in the long run, is probably costing the team a win or two (or perhaps less than a win, if you're optimistic about Taylor's abilities). But the NFC East is at it's all time high point this year. Anyone can take it, and there are three other teams around who are looking to make this 1-2 year rental of Jason Taylor a total waste for us, no matter how well he plays.

I'm not telling the team not to be competitive here, I think we have the talent to win the thing if everything breaks right, but I wish they'd be smarter about it, and not willingly offer something significant into a buyers market.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=jdlea;458126]One thing I will point out is that Vinny Cerrato is confident that Jason Taylor will not only play out the contract, but probably even extended in Washington. If that happens, how will your opinion change?

NOTE: I do disagree with you on this issue, but this post is not an attack. I find your use of metric intriguing and would like to know your answer on this subject.

As an aside: are you a baseball fan at all? Just wondering because metrics are used heavily in player evaluation in baseball.[/quote]Yeah, I'm a baseball fan. I'm very familiar with baseball metrics, and use them often, though I find that I don't learn from them in baseball nearly as much as football. Things tend to be more obvious in baseball.

I think we might be best off with Taylor retiring in a year or two. He's playing at a high level right now, but we don't want him to be playing that twilight stage of his career year, I'd rather see him go out at the top of his game, whenever that may be.

The only thing we are guaranteed is this season. Vinny seems pretty confident that Taylor will come back in 2009, but a lot can change between now and then.

IMO, keeping him beyond 2009 is a separate issue from trading for him. As long as he's producing, I'd like to see him stay, but when he stops producing, the team needs to cut it's losses and move on quickly.

I feel confident that he'll give us a good year this season. After that, I'm really not so sure. Steve McNair gave the Ravens only one good season, but the difference is that they didn't trade a second rounder for him (they gave up a 4th, i think).

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;458128]Of couse I do. Last year the back up QB for this team played better than the starter. Ryan Grant came in off the bench and played better than any the GB starters. Betts came in and played just as good as Portis did in 06. Willie Parker was undrafted FA and came in off the bench when Bettis got hurt. Tom Brady came in for Bledsoe. Need I go on???? Cause I could be here all day talking about back-ups who just needed a chance.

My point is every single year a back-up or an unknown player comes in and shocks everyone. Derek Anderson is another the perfect example.[/QUOTE]

Brodie Croyle came in for Damon Huard. Andrew Walter came in for the Raiders a couple of years ago. Cedric Benson came in after the Thomas Jones trade. Gus Frerotte came in for Marc Bulger. Josh Beck came in for Cleo Lemon. Need I go on?

I'm not saying Evans couldn't have done anything, but let's not get carried away and act like every back up who stepped into a starting role became an All-Pro.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

Interesting tidbit: Taylor has more career interceptions and passes defensed than Carlos Rogers. In fact, since Rogers came into the league (i.e. over the last three years), he only has 4 more passes defensed and one more interception than Taylor. I find that interesting for a DE.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;458108]If we make the playoffs this year, I think the move will justify itself. If we don't make the playoffs, then it probably wasn't a good idea.[/quote]
Jim Zorn: Vinny, we just lost Daniels for the year and Buzbee is gone too. What do we do? We need a decision pretty quickly on the Jason Taylor thing because as other injuries pile up across the league the Fins will have other offers.

Vinny: Jim, if I get JT, can you tell me we'll make the playoffs? If you tell me we'll definitely make the playoffs, then OK. If not, then this may be a bad idea.

Jim Zorn: ?????

Nothing like hedging your bets. Unfortunately VC needs to make the best decision based on the information at hand and the current situation. If he has JT's word that he'll play at least two more seasons, there is no reason not to make this happen, based on our situation at DE.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;458132]Yeah, I'm a baseball fan. I'm very familiar with baseball metrics, and use them often, though I find that I don't learn from them in baseball nearly as much as football. Things tend to be more obvious in baseball.

I think we might be best off with Taylor retiring in a year or two. He's playing at a high level right now, but we don't want him to be playing that twilight stage of his career year, I'd rather see him go out at the top of his game, whenever that may be.

The only thing we are guaranteed is this season. Vinny seems pretty confident that Taylor will come back in 2009, but a lot can change between now and then.

IMO, keeping him beyond 2009 is a separate issue from trading for him. As long as he's producing, I'd like to see him stay, but when he stops producing, the team needs to cut it's losses and move on quickly.

I feel confident that he'll give us a good year this season. After that, I'm really not so sure. Steve McNair gave the Ravens only one good season, but the difference is that they didn't trade a second rounder for him (they gave up a 4th, i think).[/QUOTE]

I see what you're saying, I was mostly just interested in getting your opinion.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;458124]


If we stay with an aggressive Cover 1 as our base D with the SS close to the LOS, this scheme should be fine against the run and will cover Taylor. We have needs to replace Griffen and with Rocky's knees, but the injury to Daniels did nothing to increase or decrease those needs.

We did? When?

Campbell - dislocated kneecap
Carlos Rogers - torn ACL & MCL
Thomas - torn tricep
Jansen - broken ankle
Washington - dislocated elbow
Daniels - foot
Moss - groin, heel
Thrash - ankle

The training staff couldn't do anything to prevent the above injuries. Moss has had injury issues with his hammy in the past. There were some guys with hammy issues, but none missed any significant time or more than one game. I'm sure we had no more of a problem with this than any other team. Since the training staff is not restricted by $$$ or cap, you can be sure the Skins have one of the best staffs in the NFL. Not a fair attack on the training staff IMO.[/QUOTE]

Good points about the defense. I'm sure Greg Blache will find a scheme to stop the run, much in the way GW had to find a scheme to generate a pass rushin years past. That Cover 1 should do the trick.

Very good point about the training staff. Snyder made the hamstring issues a point of emphasis and hired someone to take care of that. You did a great job of showing the various bad breaks we had last year, but ligaments and tendons can't be "trained" to prevent injury, beyond the stretching regimens they already do. As a victim of two achilles tears (basketball) I can tell you that there is no rhyme nor reason to these things, much like you can't prevent ACL tears. You can limit players exposure to injury, but at the end of the day these guys are doing things the human body just wasn't really designed to do, so these types of injuries will occur.

Re: Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)
 

One thing's for sure. Football is back and we've got some great discussions going on right now.