Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Hey Gtripp and Sammy, trying attacking the message and not the sender, it makes you look stupid.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=NM Redskin;469620]Hey Gtripp and Sammy, trying attacking the message and not the sender, it makes you look stupid.[/quote]?

I'm sorry, but this is the first time in the thread that someone has been personally attacked. Does that make...never mind.

--EDIT-- On review, I see that you probably weren't looking to attack me or Slingin' Sammy, but I still don't know what part of my or his responses offended you.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GTripp0012;469611]This is false. Obama was elected to the Senate in 2004, taking Peter Fitzgerald's seat. Those four years of course include the time he spent campaigning for president, as opposed to attending the Senate meetings.

I think you probably meant the Illinois State Senate, in which case, my only beef is acting like he had [I]control [/I]over anything.[/quote]

Tripp, you're right. I meant Il. State Senate. But my basic point is still the same

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GTripp0012;469611]This is false. Obama was elected to the Senate in 2004, taking Peter Fitzgerald's seat. Those four years of course include the time he spent campaigning for president, as opposed to attending the Senate meetings.

I think you probably meant the Illinois State Senate, in which case, my only beef is acting like he had [I]control [/I]over anything.[/quote]

You crack me up, he's spent four years running for President? And by the way, check the record. You'll be surprised who has missed the most Senate votes and meetings.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;469640]And by the way, check the record. You'll be surprised who has missed the most Senate votes and meetings.[/quote]
IMO, that does not make him any better, it just makes the others worse, as well
Your tax dollars at work!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;469640]You crack me up, he's spent four years running for President? And by the way, check the record. You'll be surprised who has missed the most Senate votes and meetings.[/quote]I said:

[quote=GTripp0012]Those four years of course include the time he spent campaigning for president, as opposed to attending the Senate meetings.
[/quote]

As in, he's been in the U.S. Senate for 4 years, and that term isn't over, but he's spent a lot of time campaigning [I]recently[/I]. Not all four years, obviously. But if the issue is inexperience, one year out of four spent on the campaign trail is significant. I don't claim to know what Obama's record of attending senate meetings in the last year is, but I can't imagine it's all that high.

I understand your argument though: Illinois Senate > Whatever experience Palin had. They're both inexperienced -- I'm not disagreeing with you there.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GTripp0012;469661]I said:



As in, he's been in the U.S. Senate for 4 years, and that term isn't over, but he's spent a lot of time campaigning [I]recently[/I]. Not all four years, obviously. But if the issue is inexperience, one year out of four spent on the campaign trail is significant. I don't claim to know what Obama's record of attending senate meetings in the last year is, but I can't imagine it's all that high.

I understand your argument though: Illinois Senate > Whatever experience Palin had. They're both inexperienced -- I'm not disagreeing with you there.[/quote]
Both of them maybe short on the exprience issue, but one of them is running for the highest office of the free world.

I would like to thank everybody for contributing to the dialog on this thread. It has been very healthy, and for the most part enlightening to our education on our persumptive leaders that want to govern us. I hope that the Mods don't lock this thread because I think that all of us can learn from one another.

I think that the Dems saw something hot in Obama, and probably thrust him out on the big stage before he was throughly vetted. They pretty much thought he was a shoe-in to be our president. Obama does speak very well when he has a teleprompter to aid him. But the man lacks real substance to his message. I'm not as smart as some of you guys, and I didn't go to college and have to have a liberal professor ingrain in my mushy brain what kind of adult I should be. I joined the Marine Corps after high school, and served four years and got out on an honorable discharge. So that is another reason why I have a fondness for McCain.

That guy was captured in the jungles of Vietnam and was held prisoner for what 4 or 5 years. He never gave the enemy any aid or comfort, or any tactical information. He was tortured and abused while prisoner. Ask yourself this, do you think Obama would do that? With the type of people he hangs out with I would have to think probably not. This man is tested and knows battle. He has been a U.S. Senator for a long time. And yes the man is old as piss, but the man has good qualities that reflect most of my core beliefs as an American. You say you want change, hell this man's nickname is Maverick for crying out loud. He was change before change was all of the latest rage.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=4mrusmc;469692]That guy was captured in the jungles of Vietnam and was held prisoner for what 4 or 5 years. He never gave the enemy any aid or comfort, or any tactical information. He was tortured and abused while prisoner. .[/quote]

McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=4mrusmc;469692]Both of them maybe short on the exprience issue, but one of them is running for the highest office of the free world.

I would like to thank everybody for contributing to the dialog on this thread. It has been very healthy, and for the most part enlightening to our education on our persumptive leaders that want to govern us. I hope that the Mods don't lock this thread because I think that all of us can learn from one another.

I think that the Dems saw something hot in Obama, and probably thrust him out on the big stage before he was throughly vetted. They pretty much thought he was a shoe-in to be our president. Obama does speak very well when he has a teleprompter to aid him. But the man lacks real substance to his message. I'm not as smart as some of you guys, and I didn't go to college and have to have a liberal professor ingrain in my mushy brain what kind of adult I should be. I joined the Marine Corps after high school, and served four years and got out on an honorable discharge. So that is another reason why I have a fondness for McCain.

That guy was captured in the jungles of Vietnam and was held prisoner for what 4 or 5 years. He never gave the enemy any aid or comfort, or any tactical information. He was tortured and abused while prisoner. Ask yourself this, do you think Obama would do that? With the type of people he hangs out with I would have to think probably not. This man is tested and knows battle. He has been a U.S. Senator for a long time. And yes the man is old as piss, but the man has good qualities that reflect most of my core beliefs as an American. You say you want change, hell this man's nickname is Maverick for crying out loud. He was change before change was all of the latest rage.[/quote]

I totally respect your opinion and the way in which you have served our great country. But let me tell you, and certainly not to one up you, that I too served this great country during the Persian Gulf War. In fact, my ship, U.S.S. Tripoli, suffered damage from a mine explosion and re-deployed during the same mission. So I can totally relate to and understand your affection for a war hero like Senator McCain. He served our country honorably and deserves tremendous respect for that.

But as a proud American first and a proud Democrat second, let's both agree right here and now that military service in and of itself does not translate to capable leadership neither is it the benchmark for patriotism. In fact, let's agree that patriotism and one's love of country, which seems to be the case you're trying to make, doesn't belong exclusively to one party or the other. I believe John McCain loves this country and so does Barack Obama. The same goes for Governor Palin and Senator Biden.

Now whether or not Senator McCain is truly a Maverick and has the temperment and judgement to lead this country is certainly debatable. But I will never debate or question his patriotism and love of country.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

12th, according to your resume, and republican thinking, you my friend are actually qualified to run for president

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

It seems like McCains VP selection Sarah Palin has a veiw dems on edge.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;469762]It seems like McCains VP selection Sarah Palin has a veiw dems on edge.[/quote]

You know, this is going to be very interesting. I wouldn't say Dems are on edge though. We just had a great convention and perhaps swayed a good chunk of Hillary supporters our way. So that was a plus. But I think Palin will go through an intense public vetting for the next 60 days.

I think the country is captivated with this pick though. If anyone, the GOP are on edge and hoping she can deliver. But the thing Dems, especially Obama and Biden, have to be careful about is the issue of gender and not coming accross as disrespectful or talking down to her.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=NM Redskin;469620]Hey Gtripp and Sammy, trying attacking the message and not the sender, it makes you look stupid.[/quote]
I don't believe I've ever personally attacked saden, while we're on the opposite side of most issues, I don't believe our debate has ever devolved into a personal attack.

If you took my message to be that, it was certainly not.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;469578]What are you saying, since I don't like them and I disagree with them I should be able to go out there and shoot them in the face? Bomb them to submission? What is there to negotiate? At least with respect to Iran there room for negotiation. With Iran I can negotiate with them by offering to help them build clean energy power plants in return for giving up nuclear aspiration. Hell, I can even offer to build and maintain their nuclear plants. What do I have to offer pro-lifers? Make abortion illegal in odd years?

My stance on partial birth abortion is [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/parking-lot/18429-sggs-whats-your-issue-poll.html#post314417"]very clear[/URL].[/quote]
In at nutshell, it just doesn't make sense to me that many on the left show more outward disdain for pro-lifers than for the leadership of Iran.

You seemed to have a great deal of disdain in your original post for people who believe that abortion is murder and murder is wrong in any case. The intent of these people is to save lives. While you view them as intruding on a woman's freedom, they are not trying to kill people and are (in a vast majority of cases) non-violent. Your opinion of hard core pro-lifers is consistent with many people on the left.

Many on the left also share the opinion that we can reason with and negotiate with the leadership of Iran who has sponsored terrorism against the U.S. for decades, has said publicly that millions of people in Israel should be "wiped off the face of the earth", and that the U.S. is the great Satan. Clearly their intent is to take lives, they are very violent, and I don't see how there is any way we can negotiate in good faith with them.

(And to be clear, I'm NOT saying that the American left is advocating terrorism or for destroying Israel...or that we should be shooting hard-core pro-lifers in the face)

(We're actually not too far off in our opinions on the abortion issue itself)

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Time for some humor...the sad kind:

[yt]KDmNk23vEYI[/yt]

...the kind that makes you cringe:

[yt]2zP8uFPWxaA[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;469828]Time for some humor...the sad kind:

[yt]KDmNk23vEYI[/yt]

...the kind that makes you cringe:

[yt]2zP8uFPWxaA[/yt][/quote]
WOW! I was stationed in Japan during the late '80s, I got there right after the KAL incident. For the life of me I can't remember the governor of Alaska being anywhere near the chain of command for any response scenarios to USSR threats.... I was really hoping the GOP would come up with a better argument to cover her inexperience in foreign policy than Alaska IS right next door to Russia.

I thought Fox was home of the "No Spin" zone. :laughing-

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Anybody else think McCain's wife is a little scary looking? Like... a vampire, scary looking?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;469902]Anybody else think McCain's wife is a little scary looking? Like... a vampire, scary looking?[/quote]

I always thought she looked like a cat.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;469905]I always thought she looked like a cat.[/quote]


and more proof why America is not ready for a woman to be President.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=hesscl34;469911]and more proof why America is not ready for a woman to be President.[/quote]

I think America is ready for a woman to be President.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;469914]I think America is ready for a woman to be President.[/quote]

then you and many others here are naive. Maybe DC is ready.. but not America. I wish it were so, but I don't think it is...

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=hesscl34;469934]then you and many others here are naive. Maybe DC is ready.. but not America. I wish it were so, but I don't think it is...[/quote]

So what do you have to say about Hillary receiving nearly 18,000,000 votes?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;469935]So what do you have to say about Hillary receiving nearly 18,000,000 votes?[/quote]

I [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]call it a minority vote... before she received the nomination... so I call it nothing.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=hesscl34;469911]and more proof why America is not ready for a woman to be President.[/quote]

Because people would judge a female president's looks? People dog on females looks openly everyday. Whats the difference?

PS. I really have no pull towards whether or not America is ready for a female pres.. I don't really care too much either way. Just intrigued by the conversation. :)

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=hesscl34;469934]then you and many others here are naive. Maybe DC is ready.. but not America. I wish it were so, but I don't think it is...[/quote]

I don't understand what you mean by "not ready'?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;469419]I disagree, I think in large part McCain took keen note of the trouble Barack was having with some Hill supporters and saw this as an opening and a potential game changer. Yes, he may rally the conservative base but at what cost? What do Indie voters think about this pick? Are they as conservative on many of the social issues that Palin has and does stand for? In the end, this election is coming down to that slice of the electorate. Obama is trying to rally his base and so is McCain. If both are successful, then it comes down to the independent voter. Another thing, McCain needs that vote more than Obama. This woman adds maybe two things to McCain's ticket. She's an energy buff, coming from the state of Alaska, and she's a woman. And to the extent he can capitilize on the latter will determine how good a pick this was. Now whether or not this was truly McCain's motive, no one knows. But I can tell you first hand, many of my Hillary friends see this as an insult.[/quote]

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/31/obama.mccain.poll/index.html]Poll shows no convention bounce for Obama - CNN.com[/url]

[quote]
"Women now appear slightly more likely to vote for Obama than they did a week ago, 53 percent now, compared to 50 percent. But McCain picked up a couple of points among men.

"More important, McCain solidified his party's base with the Palin selection, dropping Obama's share of the Republican vote six points to just 5 percent now. The Palin selection did not help among women -- that may come later -- but it did appeal to Republican loyalists."
[/quote]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

The polls do vary some. That CNN poll does show a 1 point lead, but the Gallaup daily tracking poll has BHO up by 6 points. The average of polls show a lead of 3.4 points.

So we'll see what happens.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

this pick was strictly politics as usual. reaching out for the Hilliary supporters. the first thing i thought was, is this the best they could do? with her lack of experience, she makes Obama look worldly. there is no way in hell i want her one step away from running my country. almost laughable

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;469747]I totally respect your opinion and the way in which you have served our great country. But let me tell you, and certainly not to one up you, that I too served this great country during the Persian Gulf War. In fact, my ship, U.S.S. Tripoli, suffered damage from a mine explosion and re-deployed during the same mission. So I can totally relate to and understand your affection for a war hero like Senator McCain. He served our country honorably and deserves tremendous respect for that.

But as a proud American first and a proud Democrat second, let's both agree right here and now that military service in and of itself does not translate to capable leadership neither is it the benchmark for patriotism. In fact, let's agree that patriotism and one's love of country, which seems to be the case you're trying to make, doesn't belong exclusively to one party or the other. I believe John McCain loves this country and so does Barack Obama. The same goes for Governor Palin and Senator Biden.

Now whether or not Senator McCain is truly a Maverick and has the temperment and judgement to lead this country is certainly debatable. But I will never debate or question his patriotism and love of country.[/quote]
12th, I too appreciate your service to our country. And I also was deployed in the middle east during Desert Storm.

But I'm sorry, I will not pretend to not see protesters who often times call themselves proud dems: disrespect, talk-down, spit, burn, and other unmentionable things to our flag and troops. I'm trying not to sound like the priviously mentioned "rep bubba" but here it goes. This country is home of the free, because of the brave. And because of hollywood and the sad times we live in today, it seems to be uncool to be a proud American who is patriotic. But you guys cannot explain it away enough for me the conduct that some of your demacratic friends have when they are at these protest events, and amongst themselves behind closed doors.

Dovetail that with the Obamas, their affilations with known America hating individuals. And comments like "this is the first time that I am proud of my country". I will choose not to vote for that this November.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;469749]12th, according to your resume, and republican thinking, you my friend are actually qualified to run for president[/quote]
Dmek, come on pal. Do I really need to post a laundry list comparing the experience and accomplishments of both Obama and McCain? Obviously, regardless of what I or anybody says about the two candidates your mind is already made up.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=4mrusmc;470058]12th, I too appreciate your service to our country. And I also was deployed in the middle east during Desert Storm.

But I'm sorry, I will not pretend to not see protesters who often times call themselves proud dems: disrespect, talk-down, spit, burn, and other unmentionable things to our flag and troops. I'm trying not to sound like the priviously mentioned "rep bubba" but here it goes. This country is home of the free, because of the brave. And because of hollywood and the sad times we live in today, it seems to be uncool to be a proud American who is patriotic. But you guys cannot explain it away enough for me the conduct that some of your demacratic friends have when they are at these protest events, and amongst themselves behind closed doors.

Dovetail that with the Obamas, their affilations with known America hating individuals. And comments like "this is the first time that I am proud of my country". I will choose not to vote for that this November.[/quote]

Listen, I won't go tit for tat on what the Obama's said or meant to say, so called affiliations and such. Let the record speak for itself - the whole record. Trust me, I have no desire to convert or convince you, as it were. But I'll say this again, you or no one else is any position to question anyone's patriotism or love of country.

And for every flag burning, American hating protester that you claim are Democrats, one could easily turn around and point to a few of our Republican friends who haven't always upheld and in some cases denigrated our Constitution. Wouldn't it be foolish of me to make broad and sweeping assumptions that because Nixon was dishonest, that all Republican presidents shouldn't be trusted?

We live in a nation right now that is divided on a host of issues. Torture, immigration, and the war in Iraq, just to name a few. And whether you realize it or not, Americans in both parties aren't very proud of the last eight years. I don't think the issue is whether or not people are unpatriotic in all cases, sometimes they feel as though they aren't being listened to by their government.

By the way, what exactly is patriotism in your book? How do you define it?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=4mrusmc;470070]Dmek, come on pal. Do I really need to post a laundry list comparing the experience and accomplishments of both Obama and McCain? Obviously, regardless of what I or anybody says about the two candidates your mind is already made up.[/quote]
i respect your commitment to protect and serve our great country. i thank you for preserving my freedoms. but, just because John McCain served in the military, it doesn't make him more qualified to be the president. every time he says i know how to win wars, i almost puke. how does he have this great insight? by getting shot down, and being tortured? he is a real American hero, for what he did in war time. but the Vietnam war, and the Iraq war mirror each other. to win a war, you have to be able to identify the enemy. this is impossible in Iraq. i respect John McCain, but no way in hell want him, or his vice president running the show. this is the biggest difference between the parties. the G.O.P has no respect for anyone the Dem's put in the forefront

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

John McCain is a leader and a capable one at that. He graduated from the Naval Academy and can be trusted with the Red Button.

[yt]srbX26vp57c[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

12th, my definiton will first start with what Webster says. And that is: one who loves his or her country. Then I will amend it by saying: one who is willing to defend it at all costs. One who believes in what the founding fathers sought for the vision of what this country should be in such documents as The Declaration of Indepenence, The Constitution, and The Bill of Rights.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=4mrusmc;470103]12th, my definiton will first start with what Webster says. And that is: one who loves his or her country. Then I will amend it by saying: one who is willing to defend it at all costs. One who believes in what the founding fathers sought for the vision of what this country should be in such documents as The Declaration of Indepenence, The Constitution, and The Bill of Rights.[/quote]

Okay, I can dig that. But that definition is a little too abstract for me. What about those who don't or can't serve in the military. How are they to prove their love or defend our country? Surely that would leave out hundreds of millions of Americans, wouldn't it? Another thing, since you cite the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, how does the institution of slavery factor into this and more recently, the Jim Crow era, as it relates to our founding fathers and their ideals of sacracfice and service?

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to see exactly when did America start loving and defending other Americans - all Americans.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470072]Listen, I won't go tit for tat on what the Obama's said or meant to say, so called affiliations and such.
[/quote]

IMO, why are we not asking these questions.........with eyes open.......of all the candidates? Why do we not scrutinize the people our candidates have associated with in the past? Why are we not paying close attention to all aspects past and present of our candidates?
To many people want to brush these things aside as meaningless. I do not, and I will tell you now, O'bama has some disturbing associations that concern me "as an American". Naturally, he would like to talk about...change, and not about "God-Damn America".....who can blame him.
If MCcain does or his running mate, I damn sure want to heavily scrutinize those as well. To look the other way is irresponsible
I would think all Americans would want to know in detail as we all live here and I assume all want basically the same thing?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;470100]John McCain is a leader and a capable one at that. He graduated from the Naval Academy and can be trusted with the Red Button.[/quote]


What Red Button?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Hog1;470131]IMO, why are we not asking these questions.........with eyes open.......of all the candidates? Why do we not scrutinize the people our candidates have associated with in the past? Why are we not paying close attention to all aspects past and present of our candidates?
To many people want to brush these things aside as meaningless. I do not, and I will tell you now, O'bama has some disturbing associations that concern me "as an American". Naturally, he would like to talk about...change, and not about "God-Damn America".....who can blame him.
If MCcain does or his running mate, I damn sure want to heavily scrutinize those as well. To look the other way is irresponsible
I would think all Americans would want to know in detail as we all live here and I assume all want basically the same thing?[/quote]


Oh, I'm more than willing to answer them. In fact, they have been answered. I just didn't want to get into argument with 4mrusmc.

Hog1, based on what you know about me (whatever that may be), if I played you a clip of me, 12thMan, saying God damn America. What would your honest conclusion be?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470134]Oh, I'm more than willing to answer them. In fact, they have been answered. I just didn't want to get into argument with 4mrusmc.

Hog1, based on what you know about me (whatever that may be), if I played you a clip of me, 12thMan, saying God damn America. What would your honest conclusion be?[/quote]
I am not tainting your reputation but, if you were an apparent 20 year associate of a presidential candidate in my country who I would assume has sought council at your side from time to time, I would be concerned. I do not condemn anyone for allegations from anyone, but it does get my attention.
BTW, it is not in your power to answer them. Only O' can do that

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Hog1;470141]I am not tainting your reputation but, if you were an apparent 20 year associate of a presidential candidate in my country who I would assume has sought council at your side from time to time, I would be concerned. I do not condemn anyone for allegations from anyone, but it does get my attention.
BTW, it is not in your power to answer them. Only O' can do that[/quote]

So I take it you think I'm an okay guy?

But seriously, I've heard O answer and address these concernes at least 10 or 15 times, and I must say, I'm honestly satisfied. Especially his affiliation with William Ayers. But to your point, it is/was a reason to be concerned.