Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I think last night showed why Billy McMullen should've made the team. He has sure hands and always puts himself in a position to make a catch. He may not rack up the YAC, but he moves the chains.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;472950]I think the numbers speak for themselves. Campbell got me 8.66 Yahoo fantasy points. Whereas Manning only had 8.27 points. So clearly Campbell is the better QB :)[/quote]

This is how normal leagues would calculate it:
Manning 216 yards = 10 pts. 1 td = 6 pts. 1 int = -2 pts. Total = 14 points.
Campbell 133 yards = 6 pts. 1 td = 6 pts. Total = 12 points.

I do get your point...just wanted to point that out.

I was not impressed with Manning's performace overall. He looked VERY good in the first half, but looked terrible in the 2nd.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;472976]We lost by nine points, if we got average qb play, we could have won.[/quote]

Very true. Campbell will not run the ball and he certainly doesn't make his reads. But Zorn is the blame for underutilizing Cooley, Betts and Sellers in the offense. Where in the hell was Fred Davis to help with pass protection?

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=SUNRA;472992]Very true. Campbell will not run the ball and he certainly doesn't make his reads. But Zorn is the blame for underutilizing Cooley, Betts and Sellers in the offense. Where in the hell was Fred Davis to help with pass protection?[/quote]

Not entirely accurate...sportscenter was analyzing the game, and Tim Hasslebeck just showed Cooley open with Campbell missing the fact that he was actually WIDE OPEN. Campbell is missing his reads. You can't blame all of this on Zorn.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;472493]........no turnovers, 1 sack against a great d-line, no help from the receivers I don't get how he was pathetic?[/quote]

I agree. They don't want him to make a mistake instead everything is criticized for what he doesn't do. They need to back off a bit and let him figure things out. If anything, the playcalling was suspect. I guess that the coaches don't really trust Jason Campbell to run the offense and there is no reason not to. He should have been running a no hurry offense, down by 2 scores with under 8 to go in the 4th quarter. Instead he was told to huddle up and they executed to running plays? They needed to huddle to say run right? There should be some blame on Zorn here because there wasn't enough urgency with the pacing at the end. The line played substandard and the receivers dropping balls doesn't help matters much.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=SUNRA;472992]Very true. Campbell will not run the ball and he certainly doesn't make his reads. But Zorn is the blame for underutilizing Cooley, Betts and Sellers in the offense. Where in the hell was Fred Davis to help with pass protection?[/quote]

Fred Davis was inactive for yesterday's game. Even so, I think Yoder is the one who would be helping with pass protection, right?

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I thought that they didn't run the ball enough in the first half to stop the pass rush and then they ran the ball at the end when they should have definitely been passing.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=mcarey032;473000]I agree. They don't want him to make a mistake instead everything is criticized for what he doesn't do. They need to back off a bit and let him figure things out. If anything, the playcalling was suspect. I guess that the coaches don't really trust Jason Campbell to run the offense and there is no reason not to. [B]He should have been running a no hurry offense,[/B] down by 2 scores with under 8 to go in the 4th quarter. Instead he was told to huddle up and they executed to running plays? They needed to huddle to say run right? There should be some blame on Zorn here because there wasn't enough urgency with the pacing at the end. The line played substandard and the receivers dropping balls doesn't help matters much.[/quote]

They pretty much were running a "no hurry offense" lol!!

Zorn might even take a liking to that phrase, in JLC's latest blog he says that Zorn has never been a fan of the no huddle. When I read that I was thinking, 'are you a fan of not having enough time to score?'

At the end of the half & game, the O was just too slow.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Where is this revamped offense that we were supposed to see?

The play calling seemed just like Gibbs. Run, Run, Pass, and punt.

or

Pass, Run, Run, and punt.

WE NEVER PASS ON 2ND DOWN AND THE WHOLE NFL KNOWS IT!!!!

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;472493]........no turnovers, 1 sack against a great d-line, no help from the receivers I don't get how he was pathetic?[/quote]


I agree. If he had thrown some ints. I could see this point. Maybe he is slwo with his devlier because the WR aren't open...or Defenders are breathing down his back..or The play calls sucked..Maybe a dropped ball here and there..

It wasn't his best performance. But the whole team stunk..and when that happens its on the coach...atleast Blache stepped up the D in the second half. We need to run the ball on first down and get something going instead of having this pass first philosophy.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=htownskinfan;472584]exactly,you hit the nail on the head,I've been cutting jc slack when hes been under a lot of pressure for not completing his passes,but how many times tonite did Eli make great throws when pressured? granted he did throw 1 int from the pressure,but he made plays.JC has got to be able to make plays when he's under pressure,{McNabbs done it his whole career}this is the nfl and rarely do you have the luxury of Tom Bradys protection[/quote]


Oh lets fire him becaus ehe ran into a sack.. Myabe the O-line should have blocked his man better. They need to let Jason run a littl ebit to atleast to pick up a first down..instead of making him be staionary in the pocket all the time..I remember a few plays where he ran for first down last year. Now it's like Zorn wants him to stand still in the pocket. The wide receivers need to produce more seperation. JC needs to read the defenses better. But if nothing is there that's why he is goign to the receiver that is underneath. He dind't play great. But we can't pin all this on JC. The playcalling sucked. The WRs sucked. Everyone sucked besides the defense in the second half and brooks..

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Question. How many drives got killed by penalties? WRs and lineman dropping offsides. A couple of catches that could have been made. JC needs to improve on this quicker release. But these WRs need to run past the 1st down marker and learn to make some moves for seperation.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

the thread title shoul be JZ is not what I thought. This is some of the worst play calling I have ever witnessed. Here I thought we had a new innovative aggresive play calling coach and we get Gibbs v2. wow.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Somewhere Larry Michael's head is exploding, but this assessment from an unnamed NFL Executive in Redskin's Insider is dead on I think:

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/09/one_executives_take_on_the_off.html]NFL Executive's Take on the Offense, Defense - Redskins Insider[/url]

The two throws Campbell looked best on were the only two deep shots he took at the very end of the game. That is why Gibbs drafted him, that is his strength. All this "he ran the WCO at Auburn his senior year" is BS. Like the guy says, he's Doug Williams he's not Steve Young. The Redskins (sorry, Vinny and Dan) made it such a priority to help Jason Campbell in their interview process but imported a system that didn't play to his strengths. You can give me the "it's only one game, give it time" thing, that's fine. I'll be happy to eat crow on this one, but let's get the opinions out there.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;472950]I think the numbers speak for themselves. Campbell got me 8.66 Yahoo fantasy points. Whereas Manning only had 8.27 points. So clearly Campbell is the better QB :)[/quote]

That's an interesting stat. Eli didnt look too good in the 2nd half and I bet most of JC's points came at the end of the game when the Giants were in prevent. Looking at this game a day later, for as bad as the Skins got crushed in the 1st half they were still in the game. If they had been able to score 20 points they could have won this game. The Giants played a good game but not great. It reminded me of the game last year when the Skins were trouncing the Giants and it looked like TC was going to get the axe but the Giants found a way to come back and win and ultimately revive their season. For as bad as this game looked it was a game the Skins could have won.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=irish;473042]That's an interesting stat. Eli didnt look too good in the 2nd half and I bet most of JC's points came at the end of the game when the Giants were in prevent. Looking at this game a day later, for as bad as the Skins got crushed in the 1st half they were still in the game. If they had been able to score 20 points they could have won this game. The Giants played a good game but not great. It reminded me of the game last year when the Skins were trouncing the Giants and it looked like TC was going to get the axe but the Giants found a way to come back and win and ultimately revive their season. For as bad as this game looked it was a game the Skins could have won.[/quote]

And you bring a good point. They could have won!
The G's are a pretty good scoring team. They obviously scored 16 points. Our D managed to get it together to give up FG's rather than TD's. You keep NFL teams to 16 each week, you are in position to win EVERY game.
BUT, you gotta' have a little O. J.C. and company will have to do their part.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Way too much disapointment.

Campbell is not fit for this offense. Let Zorn bring in a QB he wants and lets cut the cord on Campbell.


The shy has fallen because it will take us years just to get to back to average.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Hog1;473043]And you bring a good point. They could have won!
The G's are a pretty good scoring team. They obviously scored 16 points. Our D managed to get it together to give up FG's rather than TD's. You keep NFL teams to 16 each week, you are in position to win EVERY game.
BUT, you gotta' have a little O. J.C. and company will have to do their part.[/quote]

Yes. There is no way the O can essentially say to the D "we are only going to score 10 so dont let them get more than that." If the Skins could score 20 points in every game IMO they would win at least 3 out of 4.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Listening to the Doc show earlier, he brings a good point. He basically states (and we all saw it) for JC to be in the QB business this long and be "locking" onto one reciever is ..........a problem. And he needs to "take a step", to inspire the confidence that he is The Man.
I would like to see a little of Colt in him. As raw as he is, he is GOING to make something happen-FIRE. That "playmaker" look.
JC doesn't appear to have any improvisation. No escape and evade! No improvise, adapt, and overcome.
I DO NOT advocate a QB change, but I want to see urgency!!! Montana Magic in JC

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Paintrain;472889]I don't want to come across as a JC apologist, but a big part of those things (reading defense, not staring down receivers, checking down, making quick decisions) have to do with comfort in the offense. As last season progressed, we saw less and less of that as he grew comfortable in Saunders system. He TRUSTED that people would be where they were supposed to be so he didn't have to stare them down. You don't hear the criticisms from knowledgeable football analysts (Jaws, Aikman) saying Campbell doesn't read defenses well, that's a fan thing. [B]They've all said he needs to be more comfortable and process things faster[/B], AS DO ALL YOUNG QB. He's made fewer than 25 starts, look at his progression vs. others at a similar stage and the sky isn't falling as quickly as you think.[/quote]

Paintrain what does "process things faster" mean to you? To me it means being able to read a D scheme pre-snap, making adjustments/audibles if necessary then once the ball is snapped having the ability to check down to your second option if your primary guy is covered. My bad buddy but the fact that you dismiss my observations as a "fan thing" is alil arrogant on your part because you are no more an expert than I am. I like JC and have confidence in him, I just want to see him improve on these areas that many have been harping on aswell.

ps - zorn after the game also said JC locks onto his primary receiver too long, he must have read my email. lol

go skins!!!

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

JC is not panning the field when he's dropping back. I think that is what pissed Cooley off last night because he wasn't looking for anybody but the guy he locked on to.

I liked Campbell when Gibbs was the head coach but now that we have a different coach/system my new evaluation is that I want a change at the QB spot.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[QUOTE]This is some of the worst play calling I have ever witnessed. Here I thought we had a new innovative aggresive play calling coach and we get Gibbs v2. wow.[/QUOTE]

I think you are right on with that one dirty....we need an aggressive attac offense with innovation not a lets run between the tackles and dump it short of the sticks and hope the recievers can make the ¥ard..boo to that....boo..

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Hog1;473050]Listening to the Doc show earlier, he brings a good point. He basically states (and we all saw it) for JC to be in the QB business this long and be "locking" onto one reciever is ..........a problem. And he needs to "take a step", to inspire the confidence that he is The Man.
I would like to see a little of Colt in him. As raw as he is, he is GOING to make something happen-FIRE. That "playmaker" look.
JC doesn't appear to have any improvisation. No escape and evade! No improvise, adapt, and overcome.
I DO NOT advocate a QB change, but I want to see urgency!!! Montana Magic in JC[/quote]

I heard that and agree. When Zorn was a QB he had lots of improvise, escape & evade and I am 100% convinced that he has seen enough of JC to know he will never have that. Its as if after being a pro for 4 years JC has not even progressed on the simple things like not locking on. I think JC is at the max end of his skills. He isnt going to get much better. Like you I am not advocating a QB change now (maybe next season, we'll see) but I think Zorn is working hard to find a way to minimize the negative effects JC will have on the O.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;473056]I think you are right on with that one dirty....we need an aggressive attac offense with innovation not a lets run between the tackles and dump it short of the sticks and hope the recievers can make the ¥ard..boo to that....boo..[/quote]

How can this team have an aggressive innovative attack offense with a QB that's not capable of doing that? Heck, even at the end of the game JC couldnt move fast and attack. Zorn's hands are tied by the QB when it comes to playcalling.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=irish;473061]I heard that and agree. [B]When Zorn was a QB he had lots of improvise, escape & evade[/B] and I am 100% convinced that he has seen enough of JC to know he will never have that. Its as if after being a pro for 4 years JC has not even progressed on the simple things like not locking on. I think JC is at the max end of his skills. He isnt going to get much better. Like you I am not advocating a QB change now (maybe next season, we'll see) but I think Zorn is working hard to find a way to minimize the negative effects JC will have on the O.[/quote]

I'm not entirely sure why you included that adendum at the beginning, but Jim Zorn the player would not fit in Jim Zorn's offense. He threw 30 more INTs than TDs, had more TDs than INTs in a season twice in 11 years, never completed more than 60% of his passes, and finished with a career QB rating of 67.3. I'm not sure that is what we are looking for. I don't exactly know what the great plan is for the QB switch. Collins hasn't exactly lit it up in the preseason and I'm assuming you're not calling for Colt Brennan. Maybe things will turn around, but from where we stand now Vinny and Dan are on their way to going 2 for 2 in ruining first round QBs.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/jimzorn/profile?id=ZOR622935]Jim Zorn[/url]

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;473067]I'm not entirely sure why you included that adendum at the beginning, but Jim Zorn the player would not fit in Jim Zorn's offense. He threw 30 more INTs than TDs, had more TDs than INTs in a season twice in 11 years, never completed more than 60% of his passes, and finished with a career QB rating of 67.3. I'm not sure that is what we are looking for. I don't exactly know what the great plan is for the QB switch. Collins hasn't exactly lit it up in the preseason and I'm assuming you're not calling for Colt Brennan. Maybe things will turn around, but from where we stand now Vinny and Dan are on their way to going 2 for 2 in ruining first round QBs.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/jimzorn/profile?id=ZOR622935]Jim Zorn[/url][/quote]

I dont think Vinny & Dan have anything to do with ruining 1st round QBs. The blame goes to the coaches but IMO, JC and PR were not 1st round material.

If Colt becomes the starting QB this season then the season is finished. I do think that this is a make or break season for JC and if he doesnt do it I think Colt will have a real chance to be the starter next year.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=irish;473065]How can this team have an aggressive innovative attack offense with a QB that's not capable of doing that? Heck, even at the end of the game JC couldnt move fast and attack. Zorn's hands are tied by the QB when it comes to playcalling.[/quote]

JC can move fast, he just doesn't look like he's moving fast. He runs the no huddle pretty well, but for some reason they never went into the no huddle last night.

The guy is athletic enough to make plays on the run, he's just not comfortable in this O yet. For that matter, a no. of other players aren't either. The one guy that had a good game was CP, and the running plays are mainly the same. ARE had a decent game, but was offsides twice.

Zorn himself doesn't look like he's comfortable in his role.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=freddyg12;473073]JC can move fast, he just doesn't look like he's moving fast. [/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.. .it's a duck.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Coach Zorn lost this game. After scoring at the end of the half, we came out throwing incompletions on first down and running the ball on second and third and (too) long. This was also the case early in the game. I don't care what type of offense this is called you have to play to your players' strengths. Campbell's best throw is the deep fade. Moss' strengths is his deep speed. People ask why Tryon made the team. Why is Thrash on this team!? It would've been beneficial to have Davis active instead. Everybody has a prototype QB (or player) in thier mind that they use to measure against. You don't have to have a Brady or Peyton to win games or the SB.

Eli still sucks!

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Well, for full discolusre, I'm not A JC fan.[INDENT]But the O-Line has to give him more time.

Time to look over the field.

Time to get the ball off.
[/INDENT]If they do and he still can't find the open receiver and then hit them in stride, he's out of the league within two years.

As to "He has a new system:

This is how it is in the modern NFL. Coordinators and coaches (and receivers, centers, etc) come and go regularly.

Pro players adapt to change or they aren't pro player for long.
[INDENT]JC is the qb this year, for good or bad.

Colt-45 won't be ready for two years.
[/INDENT]The most important thing we can do now is not attack each other personally, but try to make our points.

J-Dawg

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=cpayne5;472513]There's much more to it than the play of your QB. JC didn't look great tonight, [B]but name me someone who did who wasn't returning kicks[/B]. JC gets a pass in my book until it becomes obvious that he is the weakest link.[/quote]

The one the only Chris Wilson MOFO. HAHA

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I think I'm just so desperate for a franchise QB. It makes life just so much easier in the NFL. I see plenty of potential in JC, but for him to take a considerable step backwards was hard to watch. He has had enough time and experience in the league and although he has to deal with this new system I just didn't see anything positive in that game. He usually does plenty of good things that he can build on, but it just didn't happen last night. Maybe he just isn't suited for this type of offense, but I really thought this guy was on the road to being a great quarterback. Now I'm just worried that we might have made a mess of him.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Yeah he doesn't have what it takes in my book. Auburn was a good team because of the running game not his arm..Mediocre at best

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I hate to keep saying this, but the offensive line really plays like they're college level players. I have to admit that Campbell made them look worse than they are by holding onto the ball too long. I hope they play better next time. I hate the Cowboys and the Giants, and I really don't want the Redskins to lose two times to both of those teams. If the next game is like this one, then mentally I'm ready for the Redskins to switch to Colt Brennan! Bring back Mix and Richardson!!! On second thought, bring back Reche Caldwell!

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I didn't really blame the play calling as much as the execution of the plays by the players. Jason Campbell might have gotten a great play from Zorn, but if the quarterback and the receivers are not on the same page, then the end result is going to be disastrous.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Anybody have good information on what JC's Wunderlich test score was?

J-Dawg

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

You mean his Wonderlic? Yeah, but it's irrelevant what his score was either time he took it. Ryan Fitzpatrick had close to a 40, better than any starting QB in the league. How many teams would prefer Fitzpatrick as their starter?

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jgalecpa;473106]Anybody have good information on what JC's Wunderlich test score was?

J-Dawg[/quote]

Here's a good link that shows Wonderlic scores by QBs over the years.
[url=http://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/02/bring-on-annual-wonderlic-fun.html]Rumors and Rants: Bring On The Annual Wonderlic Fun[/url]

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jgalecpa;473106]Anybody have good information on what JC's Wunderlich test score was?

J-Dawg[/quote]

Stupid metric that we have covered too many times. What did you get on your SATs? I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;473111]Stupid metric that we have covered too many times. What did you get on your SATs? I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.[/quote]

Wonderlic or SAT scores huh? How was his 2nd grade math scores more like it, cause he still doesn't know feet or yards..