Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717516]Gee, big surprise when the case is before a gay judge in San Fran...lol. You really know how to predict things![/quote]

I am willing to bet they win in the supreme court too.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Gay Marriage = Turkey Bacon = Non Alcoholic Beer

You can call it whatever you want, but it ain't the real thing.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717515]I would say I am the voice of common sense which is an exact opposite of Saden.[/quote]

Oh that's rich.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;717502]Just out of curiosity are you even a Redskins fan or did you find this thread on Google?[/quote]

a district court ruled prop 8 unconstitutional very recently.. appeals sure to follow

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;717518]Gay Marriage = Turkey Bacon = Non Alcoholic Beer

You can call it whatever you want, but it ain't the real thing.[/quote]

biblical view of love and unity = Disney = chick flicks

you can call it whatever you want but it ain't rational or realistic

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717515]I would say I am the voice of common sense which is an exact opposite of Saden.[/quote]

I like you already!
Will you be my bff?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

if you're against gay marriage just admit that you don't like gays or find them gross unless they're female and in that folder that you hide from your wife on the family computer

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717510]I know Saden1, personally. He directed me to this thread since we were discussing the judge's decision in SF today. That's why I started here.[/quote]

Ha! The mods here were thinking yesterday you guys might not realize you probably actually know each other. Good to know you do.

Anyhow, welcome to the board. This is a Redskins board first and foremost so hopefully you'll contribute there.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717515]I would say I am the voice of common sense which is an exact opposite of Saden.[/quote]A comrade in arms, I like you already. This is great stuff.

saden, you're just a few years away from the conservative table. You can sit between me and LastDon. Don't worry you can thank us later. :laughing-

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Angry;497575]Bottom line, if they are not not doing anything to infringe upon your life or liberty, then leave it alone.[/quote]

Now, my choice is what I choose to do, and if I'm causing no harm why should it bother you?

Now, your choice is who you choose to be, and if you're causing no harm you're all right with me!

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=tryfuhl;717524]biblical view of love and unity = Disney = chick flicks

you can call it whatever you want but it ain't rational or realistic[/quote]

Neither is two perverts sodomizing each other. Who said anything about a Bible? If that's rational an realistic to you, what about: adultery, beastality, polygammy, and incest?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;717617]Now, my choice is what I choose to do, and if I'm causing no harm why should it bother you?

Now, your choice is who you choose to be, and if you're causing no harm you're all right with me![/quote]

So then, if I have three 16 year old cousins, then I should be able to marry them and have children with them? That doesn't infringe on your rights? I should be able to do that right? They do it in Saudi Arabia, why not here? If American culture means nothing now, then I should be able to act as I please right?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I'll never understand why this is such a big deal. If two consenting adults want to get married, fine. If someone feels marriage should only be between a man and a woman, I can understand that and I'm ok with that debate. But comparing gay marriage to beastiality, sodomy, and incest? Sorry but you lost me with that line of caveman thinking.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk;717658]I'll never understand why this is such a big deal. If two consenting adults want to get married, fine. If someone feels marriage should only be between a man and a woman, I can understand that and I'm ok with that debate. But comparing [B]gay marriage[/B] to beastiality, [B]sodomy[/B], and incest? Sorry but you lost me with that line of caveman thinking.[/quote]

I'm guessing two dudes being married does involve the sodomy... lol

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk;717658]I'll never understand why this is such a big deal. If two consenting adults want to get married, fine. If someone feels marriage should only be between a man and a woman, I can understand that and I'm ok with that debate. But comparing gay marriage to beastiality, sodomy, and incest? Sorry but you lost me with that line of caveman thinking.[/quote]

But your definition of marriage as two people is necessarily as limiting as defining what gender those two people are. The comparison between gay marriage, straight marriage, polygamy and so forth is legit. The problem as I see it isn't whether the gov't should legally recognize gay marriage but why the gov't recognizes marriage at all. It is social contract that really shouldn't be ordained by the gov't because then it forces the gov't to then decree what is "right" and what is "wrong". The gov't ought to get out of the marriage business. That fixes the whole argument. We have bigger issues to deal with really. Issues that actually affect all of us.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=FRPLG;717665]But your definition of marriage as two people is necessarily as limiting as defining what gender those two people are. The comparison between gay marriage, straight marriage, polygamy and so forth is legit. The problem as I see it isn't whether the gov't should legally recognize gay marriage but why the gov't recognizes marriage at all. It is social contract that really shouldn't be ordained by the gov't because then it forces the gov't to then decree what is "right" and what is "wrong". The gov't ought to get out of the marriage business. That fixes the whole argument. We have bigger issues to deal with really. Issues that actually affect all of us.[/quote]


Here here :food-smil

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=FRPLG;717665]But your definition of marriage as two people is necessarily as limiting as defining what gender those two people are. The comparison between gay marriage, straight marriage, polygamy and so forth is legit. The problem as I see it isn't whether the gov't should legally recognize gay marriage but why the gov't recognizes marriage at all. It is social contract that really shouldn't be ordained by the gov't because then it forces the gov't to then decree what is "right" and what is "wrong". The gov't ought to get out of the marriage business. That fixes the whole argument. We have bigger issues to deal with really. Issues that actually affect all of us.[/quote]I'm with your premise, however the gov't (state, not Fed) does have to be involved to a point with adoption/welfare of children, dispostion of property in the event of divorce or death with no will, etc.

I don't agree with gay marriage, but if that's what someone wants to do, have at it. To me the Fed should get out of the "defining marriage" business one way or the other. This is a state level issue IMO. If there comes a time where there's a dispute between states concerning gay marriage that needs to be settled, let the SCOTUS do it's job and decide the specific dispute, not try to legislate gay marriage laws on a national level.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;717580]A comrade in arms, I like you already. This is great stuff.

saden, you're just a few years away from the conservative table. You can sit between me and LastDon. Don't worry you can thank us later. :laughing-[/quote]

TheLastDon always tells me there is no hope for me so drink up, enjoy yourselves and don't wait for me cause I ain't coming. Plus you probably don't want me there as I might set the tent on fire.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;717663]I'm guessing two dudes being married does involve the sodomy... lol[/quote]

:rofl:

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=FRPLG;717665]But your definition of marriage as two people is necessarily as limiting as defining what gender those two people are. The comparison between gay marriage, straight marriage, polygamy and so forth is legit. The problem as I see it isn't whether the gov't should legally recognize gay marriage but why the gov't recognizes marriage at all. It is social contract that really shouldn't be ordained by the gov't because then it forces the gov't to then decree what is "right" and what is "wrong". The gov't ought to get out of the marriage business. That fixes the whole argument. We have bigger issues to deal with really. Issues that actually affect all of us.[/quote]

I've got no issues with that. I didn't mean to limit anything by saying two people. But how does beastiality or incest enter the conversation?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;717668]I'm with your premise, however the gov't (state, not Fed) does have to be involved to a point with adoption/welfare of children, dispostion of property in the event of divorce or death with no will, etc.

I don't agree with gay marriage, but if that's what someone wants to do, have at it. To me the Fed should get out of the "defining marriage" business one way or the other. [B]This is a state level issue IMO. If there comes a time where there's a dispute between states concerning gay marriage that needs to be settled, let the SCOTUS do it's job and decide the specific dispute, not try to legislate gay marriage laws on a national level[/B].[/quote]

I agree

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;717668]I'm with your premise, however the gov't (state, not Fed) does have to be involved to a point with adoption/welfare of children, dispostion of property in the event of divorce or death with no will, etc.

I don't agree with gay marriage, but if that's what someone wants to do, have at it. To me the Fed should get out of the "defining marriage" business one way or the other. This is a state level issue IMO. If there comes a time where there's a dispute between states concerning gay marriage that needs to be settled, let the SCOTUS do it's job and decide the specific dispute, not try to legislate gay marriage laws on a national level.[/quote]

This whole thing is about one state not recognizing marriage performed in another state as much as gay marriage itself. I believe there are cases pending regarding whether states that banned gay should recognize marriage licenses of a gay couple from another state.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk;717658]I'll never understand why this is such a big deal. If two consenting adults want to get married, fine. If someone feels marriage should only be between a man and a woman, I can understand that and I'm ok with that debate. But comparing gay marriage to beastiality, sodomy, and incest? Sorry but you lost me with that line of caveman thinking.[/quote]

You didn't answer my question.

So then, if I have three 16 year old cousins, then I should be able to marry them and have children with them?

Let's just say they're all 18 but they're my first cousins. Are you cool with that? If they consent it should be all good right? If I was a Mormon or a Muslim then it would be part of my religion.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

So if we allow gay marriage, that opens the flood gates to people marrying their cousins or their dog?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk;717690]So if we allow gay marriage, that opens the flood gates to people marrying their cousins or their dog?[/quote]

Why wouldn't it? Can you tell me why it wouldn't? I'm already told I have accept transexuals or people who have had sex changes. If a Federal judge can tell the voters that their social norms and values are un-Constitutional, tell me how polygammy wouldn't come up? There are tons of them in Utah and it's accepted all over the world, especially in the Islamic world and Africa. If a Federal judge can say it's alright for a woman to stick a close hanger in between her legs, then why can't I stick a needle in my arm? It's my body right?

I would be fine with this being a state's rights issue. The states have no rights now because they get in the way of the progressive agenda.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perversion]Perversion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Right now we're talking about gay marriage. Let's cross one bridge at a time.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Polygamy should be legal if it is between consenting adults. Pedophilia should not be legal...you can wait a few years to bang your cousin TTL. We're not preventing you from satisfying your lust for your cousin, we just want to make sure she has reached the age of mental maturity.

Oh and if you ever decide goat-loving is your thing don't expect that to be legalized until goats can vocalize their will. The law against animal cruelty is permanent.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717673]TheLastDon always tells me there is no hope for me so drink up, enjoy yourselves and don't wait for me cause I ain't coming. Plus you probably don't want me there as I might set the tent on fire.[/quote]LOL. I feel his pain, I've been waiting for my brother-in-law to see the light for over 10 years.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk;717703]Right now we're talking about gay marriage. Let's cross one bridge at a time.[/quote]

I'm looking at the storm, not the hail. We're talking about the sexual norms of a society. Californians have defined it for themselves but a judge said eff you, your votes don't count.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;717650]So then, if I have three 16 year old cousins, then I should be able to marry them and have children with them? That doesn't infringe on your rights? I should be able to do that right? They do it in Saudi Arabia, why not here? If American culture means nothing now, then I should be able to act as I please right?[/quote]

I dunno. Those were just some lyrics to a Ben Harper song. So, if you don't like my fire, then don't come around, cause I'm gonna burn one down.

Haven't we reached the point where homosexuality is a norm?

Or do you still believe it's a choice you can be cured from?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I'm a heterosexual male. I never made a choice to like women. It just happened.

I have a few gay friends. They are as close to "normal" as anyone else I know.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I think the solution to this whole thing is to take all government involvement out of marriage. Then no one will have any problem with being treated unfairly. If there is a church that recognizes gay marriage then they can get married there. Who cares? Personally, I don't think gay marriage is right, but they aren't hurting me so have at it. Everyone gets judged in the end and that's between you and God. Not between me and that person.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk;717717]Haven't we reached the point where homosexuality is a norm?

Or do you still believe it's a choice you can be cured from?[/quote]

I didn't make them. It's not my part to figure out why they're effed up. I am of the opinion that many of them were sexually abused as children, some of it's a choice, and some were born sexually retarded. I don't know? You'll have to ask God.

No, you have reached the point to where you think two perverts sodomozing each other is normal. They don't call themselves queer (AKA strange) because they think they're normal. Why should I? If you can look at Dennis Rodman and think he's normal then well, I guess we've crossed over into the Twilight Zone.

We in Virginia have made it law that we will not recognize another state's marriage licenses for two perverts. If you don't like it, don't move here.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717721]I think the solution to this whole thing is to take all government involvement out of marriage. Then no one will have any problem with being treated unfairly. If there is a church that recognizes gay marriage then they can get married there. Who cares? Personally, I don't think gay marriage is right, but they aren't hurting me so have at it. Everyone gets judged in the end and that's between you and God. Not between me and that person.[/quote]

Taking the Federal government out of our lives, and the lives of foreigners, would solve about 90% of all of our problems.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;717727]I didn't make them. It's not my part to figure out why they're effed up. I am of the opinion that many of them were sexually abused as children, some of it's a choice, and some were born sexually retarded. I don't know? You'll have to ask God.

No, you have reached the point to where you think two perverts sodomozing each other is normal. They don't call themselves queer (AKA strange) because they think they're normal. Why should I? If you can look at Dennis Rodman and think he's normal then well, I guess we've crossed over into the Twilight Zone.

We in Virginia have made it law that we will not recognize another state's marriage licenses for two perverts. If you don't like it, don't move here.[/quote]

Here Here. This whole PC wave sweeping the nation is getting out of control. So, because two gay guys want cheaper auto insurance and tax breaks, we should legally recognize them as a married couple? Sorry, No way. Marriage is and should be between a man and a woman. Nature says it works that way, and almost every religion says it is blasphemy. So we should cater to them because they are different? Sorry, No way. Lead your life the way you want, but when it comes to the general public recognizing your homo love and okaying it essencially, that is where the buck should stop. Its almost as sick as letting gays in the military............

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717721]I think the solution to this whole thing is to take all government involvement out of marriage. Then no one will have any problem with being treated unfairly. If there is a church that recognizes gay marriage then they can get married there. Who cares? Personally, I don't think gay marriage is right, but they aren't hurting me so have at it. Everyone gets judged in the end and that's between you and God. Not between me and that person.[/quote]

Well see you're making this a moral argument, and thus stating marriage between a man and a woman is superior to gay and lesbian marriage. Now while that's your prerogative, and the church's for that matter, the government should not be coming to such conclusions regarding the institution of marriage. So it's nearly impossible for the government to "stay out of marriage" in order to protect the rights --the constitutional rights -- awarded to American citizens.

Just to reiterate, I don't think it's the government's role to determine what's morally acceptable and what isn't, particularly regarding marriage. If the Constitution doesn't protect that right, then who will enforce it? That's why we go to court, to test the rulings constitutionality. And in this case the judge determined that it was unconstitutional. This isn't a moral argument, it's a civil rights issue.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk;717675]But how does beastiality or incest enter the conversation?[/quote]

It doesn't. I hadn't really paid any heed to that stuff. I am just talking about marriage and it's ability to be ever-so-impossible to define in a way that everyone would be happy with. I guess to me the issue is "marriage of non-related people". I might be persuaded to actually take the non-related out of that though. I imagine some reasonable person somewhere wants to marry his cousin and cohabitate in a non-gross way. Anyways this is my point... I don't want to be the person deciding whether they can so I certainly don't want some faceless governmental device doing it.

What a truly worthless conversation this discussion strikes me as the more we engage in it.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Actually I love this issue...it highlights the hypocrisy of both libs and conservatives.

Conservatives: the bastion of the limited gov't powers now wants the gov't to strictly define something. That's funny

Liberals: the bastion of a powerful central gov't with the will to exert power "for the benefit of all society" now wants the gov't to basically not regulate this. Funny.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=FRPLG;717737]It doesn't. I hadn't really paid any heed to that stuff. I am just talking about marriage and it's ability to be ever-so-impossible to define in a way that everyone would be happy with. I guess to me the issue is "marriage of non-related people". I might be persuaded to actually take the non-related out of that though. I imagine some reasonable person somewhere wants to marry his cousin and cohabitate in a non-gross way. Anyways this is my point... I don't want to be the person deciding whether they can so I certainly don't want some faceless governmental device doing it.

What a truly worthless conversation this discussion strikes me as the more we engage in it.[/quote]


With all due respect, it might worthless to some here on a football forum, but it's definitely a worthy discussion and a lifelong battle for millions of gays and lesbians that want to enter marriage and be awarded the same basic rights as heterosexual couples; to live their lives free of discrimination, hate, and be treated equally.

I'm not on some liberal high horse, but the conversation is in keeping with the thread.