Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

I'm not giving up on Campbell but I cannot Cannot CANNOT believe that he didn't know it was 3 and 8 when he audible to the run. It is unforgivable to be unaware of the situation. I'm at a loss.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;588843]I'm not giving up on Campbell but I cannot Cannot CANNOT believe that he didn't know it was 3 and 8 when he audible to the run. It is unforgivable to be unaware of the situation. I'm at a loss.[/quote]

Agree 100%.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Paintrain;588839]What's Portis, Fletcher, Cooley, Rogers and Bugel's record during that stretch?[/quote]


2-9 but when the AX comes it will be Zorn/ Campbell in Oakland or the street.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Buster;588831]Plagiarism at its finest! Hey, I guess its acceptable now with our new VP. :D[/quote]


It was my own thought I was having an email fight with a co-worker as well as here. =)

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Paintrain;588794]Sorry to pick on you dude, but comments like this just seem like people who latch onto media commentary and don't actually base things on fact. Other than the fumble and INT, what bad decisions/held the ball too long did he make? In the scheme of the whole game, can you really point to those 2 plays as the entire reason we lost?

Please detail to me his 'bad decisions' and times where he 'held the ball too long'. If you already had your mind made up before the game that he wasn't the answer at QB, I'm cool with that, but say it, don't act as if there were things that happened yesterday to push you over that edge.[/quote]
Well we did loose by 6 and they got 7 off the fumble so if my math is correct witout that fumble they have one point less so we win. The int. was in an area if we did not score a TD we would have been in FG range so that might be another 3 or 7 points and I'm not sure if the Giants scored after making the int..

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=mredskins;588817]Sorry about the color change I had pulled it from an email and yes that sounds like a good assement.

[B]About my "dumbest" statement it was pulled out of context. I am saying this season is not a legit run at a Super Bowl[/B], it is a make or break season for Zorn/Campbell and after yesterday's game it is looking more like break. More then anything I hope they do will [B]I don't want to watch us rebuild again but sadly that looks like the road we are headed down[/B] and it is not just one game, I am looking back from week nine of last season. Right now from that point Zorn/Campbell are 2-9, really they are not tearing up the league.[/quote]

Unfortunately giving context is not helping your statements.
1) Last year was last year. Let it go.
2) We are 0-1 this year, having lost what was likely our toughest divisional road game of the year. We lost by six points in the Giants' house. We were supposed to lose in their house, just as they should lose in ours. And, if we had gotten the onside kick, we might have won the game.

We can still make a Super Bowl run. And no one rebuilds from 0-1.

Giving up on the season now is like giving up on a college education because you got a D in the first grade.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=firstdown;588847]Well we did loose by 6 and they got 7 off the fumble so if my math is correct witout that fumble they have one point less so we win. The int. was in an area if we did not score a TD we would have been in FG range so that might be another 3 or 7 points and I'm not sure if the Giants scored after making the int..[/quote]

So the fact that we didn't tackle a soul, ran the ball in situations that clearly called for a pass and basically played a crappy game had nothing to do with the loss, right? It was on 2 plays?

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;588843]I'm not giving up on Campbell but I cannot Cannot CANNOT believe that he didn't know it was 3 and 8 when he audible to the run. It is unforgivable to be unaware of the situation. I'm at a loss.[/quote]


Many are concerned however about the mental errors that continue to be a part of his game. If you don't learn from your mistakes you're doomed to repeat them. How long do we wait for the problem to be corrected. That fumble yesterday was one of the plays that helped decide the game. No excuses.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

Campbell what can you say....How long will this go on? Campbell's had four years to gt this right. As for Zorn he has been here one season and a game so I am not ready to throw him under the bus!

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Longtimefan;588863]Many are concerned however about the mental errors that continue to be a part of his game. If you don't learn from your mistakes you're doomed to repeat them. How long do we wait for the problem to be corrected. That fumble yesterday was one of the plays that helped decide the game. No excuses.[/quote]

I agree.

At this point, Campbell is not ready to make deciding plays that win games on a consistent basis. In close games, he also makes basic fundamental mistakes that contribute directly to a loss.

It's hard to have this kind of inconsistent play from the quarterback on any team. Good teams like the giants are going to make the redskins offense one dimensional. I would think it's more sophisticated then this, but stack against the run, and let campbell beat you. And at this point, campbell is not ready enough to beat a team like the giants.

And I know it's a team effort for football, but so much of the game is run through the qb, especially when the other team is intent on shutting the running game down.

On the bright side, the redskins are good enough to win the next 3 games though.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=mredskins;588845]2-9 but when the AX comes it will be Zorn/ Campbell in Oakland or the street.[/quote]Actually, players come from Oakland to Washington, not the other way around.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

The mistakes that JC made are all correctable. I'm honestly not worried about the QB. JC can get it done and I'm convinced of that. The problem seems that Zorn needs to hand over the offense to JC. This should not be CP's offense anymore. Kind of like how Norv handled Rivers The run was not working yet Zorn kept slamming CP into the teeth of NY's front 7. It's almost like he doesn't trust JC. IMO we just need someone else to call the plays. Zorn was caling plays like we were ahead instead of down. Also is Zorn afraid to run a hurry up? Doesn't he know JC does that very well??

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=warriorzpath;588888]I agree.

At this point, Campbell is not ready to make deciding plays that win games on a consistent basis. In close games, he also makes basic fundamental mistakes that contribute directly to a loss.

It's hard to have this kind of inconsistent play from the quarterback on any team. Good teams like the giants are going to make the redskins offense one dimensional. I would think it's more sophisticated then this, but stack against the run, and let campbell beat you. And at this point, campbell is not ready enough to beat a team like the giants.

And I know it's a team effort for football, but so much of the game is run through the qb, especially when the other team is intent on shutting the running game down.

On the bright side, the redskins are good enough to win the next 3 games though.[/quote]

I would love, just once, to see Zorn put Campbell in the shotgun from the start, give us a 65-35 pass:run ratio and see what happens. I think we'd be very pleasantly surprised with the results. The way Zorn calls plays the QB has to be perfect in order to be productive. One pass attempt over 20 yards (there were longer catch and runs, but I'm speaking of the attempts) a 16:18 run pass ratio late in a game we're down 2 scores. Talk about giving the offense no chance? I know I've been in a bunch of threads saying this, but Zorn needs to prove to me he's an NFL level play caller/game adapter before I write of Campbell.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Lotus;588853]Unfortunately giving context is not helping your statements.
[B]1) Last year was last year. Let it go.[/B]
2) We are 0-1 this year, having lost what was likely our toughest divisional road game of the year. We lost by six points in the Giants' house. We were supposed to lose in their house, just as they should lose in ours. And, if we had gotten the onside kick, we might have won the game.

We can still make a Super Bowl run. And no one rebuilds from 0-1.

Giving up on the season now is like giving up on a college education because you got a D in the first grade.[/quote]

Sorry but last year still counts it is part of their body of work. that is like saying "Hilter is such a nice guy." but he killed all those Jewish people, "Oh that was last year, silly, he has really turned around."

You just want me to forget about last year because it doesn't back up your opinion.

The score of the Giant's game just like last years score is misleading, at no time did the Giant's think they were not going home without a W.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Paintrain;588794] Please detail to me his 'bad decisions' and times where he 'held the ball too long'. If you already had your mind made up before the game that he wasn't the answer at QB, I'm cool with that, but say it, don't act as if there were things that happened yesterday to push you over that edge.[/quote]

I have been on the campbell boat for a long time, until this game. He has all the physicals tools, but he is afraid. I believe that Campbell dwarfs our widereciever's abilities and make them look bad by not getting the ball to them. His QB rating is so high because he always check's down. His fears causes him to have no trust in the players around him.

No matter what u have to say about the defense they held the Giants to 16 points. As for campbell I will list 3 mistakes among the many that I saw from him in the game.

1. The Osi fumble and TD... Campbell held the ball for like 4 seconds, never stepped into the pocket and seemed completely unaware of the rush upon him. He later admitted in an interview that he was waiting for the check down to open up. As a qb give your wideouts a chance! throw it up and let them make a play!

2. The audible to a run on a 3rd and nine! To me it just looked like he was afraid of the all out blitz, and put it in Betts hands. That was miserable.

3.The series after D.Hall made the pick and put them in favorable field position. Campbel was terrible, he burned a time out, looked like a deer in headlights, check down to many times and was scared to air it up.

He doesn't get his recievers involved in the game. He only goes to his favorite recievers often forcing it. Either to Moss, Cooley, or Randle el... or he's gonna check down! Facing a team with only 3 db's and putting a showing like that is absolutely terrible.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=mredskins;588932]Sorry but last year still counts it is part of their body of work. that is like saying "Hilter is such a nice guy." but he killed all those Jewish people, "Oh that was last year, silly, he has really turned around."

You just want me to forget about last year because it doesn't back up your opinion.

The score of the Giant's game just like last years score is misleading, at no time did the Giant's think they were not going home without a W.[/quote]

So if that's the case then they are 8-9. You can't cherry pick what you want to support your stance.

Here's another wild and crazy theory, the Giants are good. They might make other NFL QB look worse than Campbell. I know, that's crazy talk, but it just may happen.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;588940]I have been on the campbell boat for a long time, until this game. He has all the physicals tools, but he is afraid. I believe that Campbell dwarfs our widereciever's abilities and make them look bad by not getting the ball to them. His QB rating is so high because he always check's down. His fears causes him to have no trust in the players around him.

No matter what u have to say about the defense they held the Giants to 16 points. As for campbell I will list 3 mistakes among the many that I saw from him in the game.

1. The Osi fumble and TD... Campbell held the ball for like 4 seconds, never stepped into the pocket and seemed completely unaware of the rush upon him. He later admitted in an interview that he was waiting for the check down to open up. As a qb give your wideouts a chance! throw it up and let them make a play!

2. The audible to a run on a 3rd and nine! To me it just looked like he was afraid of the all out blitz, and put it in Betts hands. That was miserable.

3.The series after D.Hall made the pick and put them in favorable field position. Campbel was terrible, he burned a time out, looked like a deer in headlights, check down to many times and was scared to air it up.

He doesn't get his recievers involved in the game. He only goes to his favorite recievers often forcing it. Either to Moss, Cooley, or Randle el... or he's gonna check down! Facing a team with only 3 db's and putting a showing like that is absolutely terrible.[/quote]

We'll agree to disagree on some points (I don't necessarily think Campbell is as much scared as he is uncomfortable in they way Zorn calls the game. His shotgun/under center numbers are glaringly calling for more shotgun.)

As to your points-
1. This from an article in the times [B]The most defining and damaging play, however, happened when Osi Umenyiora, the Giants' All-Pro defensive end who missed all of last season with a knee injury, stripped the ball from Campbell, recovered and returned it 37 yards for a touchdown to give New York a 17-0 lead with 2:11 left in the first half.

The Giants also took away the deep pass but, said Zorn afterward of his quarterback, "He's got to get rid of the ball better."

Campbell disagreed. "Everyone says I held on to the ball too long, so I guess I'm supposed to throw it into coverage," he said sardonically. [/B] Yes, he should have stepped up but in no circumstance am I in support of just putting it up and 'give the WR a chance'. That mistake is on him for sure but his mistake was not stepping up and taking what the defense was giving him, not simply 'holding the ball too long.'

2. That audible was awful, no excuses. The resulting Giants possession resulted in the Hall interception. It had no negative impact on the game.

3. The 3 plays after the Hall INT were Portis run right for -5 yards, Portis swing pass for 8 yards, timeout when Campbell got to the line with less than 6 seconds on the play clock, sack with nobody open to preserve a FG chance. When you get the ball at the 11 yard line, there's not much room to 'air it up'.

My main gripe with a lot of Campbell complainers is they just regurgitate what they hear others say with little football basis to back it up. He has to make positive strides, improve explosive plays, make more plays with his feet and make smarter/faster decisions, no debate. Writing him off with the way the game was called against a very tough opponent at their house is kinda foolish.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

Fair enough pain train. I feel that although Giants are a tough team, they are a division team and we need to step it up if we want to be the cream of the crop no exscuses

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

No more excuses!

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;588966]Fair enough pain train. I feel that although Giants are a tough team, they are a division team and we need to step it up if we want to be the cream of the crop no exscuses[/quote]

Ditto, if we want to be in the upper echelon in the league, we need to show better in games like yesterday!

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=mredskins;588932]Sorry but last year still counts it is part of their body of work. that is like saying "Hilter is such a nice guy." but he killed all those Jewish people, "Oh that was last year, silly, he has really turned around."

You just want me to forget about last year because it doesn't back up your opinion.

The score of the Giant's game just like last years score is misleading, at no time did the Giant's think they were not going home without a W.[/quote]

If you want to talk about the "body of work," then you have to include the first 8 games of last year, too. Curiously, you don't do that.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Coff;588079]And then fire the coach and cut the QB after two years because we haven't won a Super Bowl yet?

We played an elite team and got beat. It's just one game.[/quote]

Giants are by no means ELITE this year, not with the O

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;588120]Bottomline guys, the Giants dominated us like usual they are a better team all around, we will win 7-8 games again and the GMEN will win the East again! And yes Zorn and Camp will be gone if we don't make the playoffs!![/quote]

WRONG, WRONG and I hope and I hope.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Lotus;588974]If you want to talk about the "body of work," then you have to include the first 8 games of last year, too. Curiously, you don't do that.[/quote]


You and Paintrain are correct I should have count those games as well. In the end only time will decide this argument, my money is on Campbell/Zorn gone at the end of the year but I hope I am wrong.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=skinsfan69;588904]The mistakes that JC made are all correctable. I'm honestly not worried about the QB. JC can get it done and I'm convinced of that. The problem seems that Zorn needs to hand over the offense to JC. This should not be CP's offense anymore. Kind of like how Norv handled Rivers The run was not working yet Zorn kept slamming CP into the teeth of NY's front 7. It's almost like he doesn't trust JC. IMO we just need someone else to call the plays. Zorn was caling plays like we were ahead instead of down. Also is Zorn afraid to run a hurry up? Doesn't he know JC does that very well??[/quote]

I agree. It's almost like Zorn needs to catch up to the team he has. Hopefully he'll make adjustments.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

If Gruden becomes next Skin's coach! Get ready for Tebow!!! He was foaming at the mouth in the NFL Draft on coaching Tim Tebow .....

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

If you think folks on here are losing their marbles take a look at the folks at Redskins Insider, a couple are actually funny.

What we THOUGHT vs What we GOT for Game 1

THOUGHT:
Zorn year 2= Gibbs year 2

GOT:
Zorn year 2= Spurrier year 2


THOUGHT:
Campbell= Doug Williams

GOT:
Campbell= Heath Shuler


THOUGHT:
Orakpo= Wilbur Marshall

GOT:
Orakpo= Invisible Man


THOUGHT:
Haynesworth= Reggie White

GOT:
Haynesworth= Dana Stubblefield


THOUGHT:
Hall= Shut down corner

GOT:
Hall= 20 yard cushion and a missed tackle


THOUGHT:
Healthy O-Line= Portis running wild

GOT:
Healthy O-Line= Portis for 2 yards and cloud of dust


THOUGHT:
Moss, Kelly, RandelEl= The Possee

GOT:
Moss, Kelly, RandelEl= Never open (except for ARE, who can get open but keeps getting tackled by those yard markers)


THOUGHT:
Vinny Cerrato= Worst 'GM' ever

GOT:
Hey, we got one right!!

Thought: Jim Zorn was a fresh new coach with updated version of classic offense

Got: The offspring of a drunk one night stand of Norv Turner and Steve Spurrier.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

Based on the name of this thread can someone please lock it. It's the 1st game.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

^Everyone is a little JR Mod, no need to lock it, if you don't like the title don't click on the link.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Njall;589071]If Gruden becomes next Skin's coach! Get ready for Tebow!!! He was foaming at the mouth in the NFL Draft on coaching Tim Tebow .....[/quote]

No to both of them.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;588762]I dissagree with you the line did a good job and only on the play that Tuck was given a free shot at Portis did they trully "mess up"... They did well against maybe the best Dline in football. Campbell lost all my confidence in him as a starter. He held the ball to long and made bad decisions. We need to sign Jeff Garcia before its too late![/quote]

It's too late...Eagles just signed Garcia

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=53Fan;589035]I agree. It's almost like Zorn needs to catch up to the team he has. Hopefully he'll make adjustments.[/quote]

He did let JC take control and with a stacked D line he switched the play from a pass to a run right into the D.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Paintrain;588860]So the fact that we didn't tackle a soul, ran the ball in situations that clearly called for a pass and basically played a crappy game had nothing to do with the loss, right? It was on 2 plays?[/quote]

Answer the man damn it!!!

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=SmootSmack;589148]It's too late...Eagles just signed Garcia[/quote]

I seriously thought we were going to grab him when he got released by the Raiders...especially with our QB situation.

This also goes to show you the real condition of McNabbs ribs and how they think they'll hold up this year.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=firstdown;589151]He did let JC take control and with a stacked D line he switched the play from a pass to a run right into the D.[/quote]

I admit that one had me yelling at the TV screen and left me completely baffled.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;589156]I seriously thought we were going to grab him when he got released by the Raiders...especially with our QB situation.

This also goes to show you the real condition of McNabbs ribs and how they think they'll hold up this year.[/quote]

Define "our QB situation". We've got an unquestioned 16 game starter, a 38 year old back up and a 2nd year player on the practice squad. All are healthy. What's your sense of "our QB situation" that would lead us to sign Jeff Garcia?

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Paintrain;589183]Define "our QB situation". We've got an unquestioned 16 game starter, a 38 year old back up and a 2nd year player on the practice squad. All are healthy. What's your sense of "our QB situation" that would lead us to sign Jeff Garcia?[/quote]

Having just 2 QBs on the roster.

Being that most teams carry 3 and the fact that we picked up Woodson a couple of days after we IR'ed Colt and cut Chase I personally thought they take a flyer on Garcia especially with his West Coast Offense ties and the FO's lust for big names.

BTW bringing in Woodson to steal the snap count just worked swimmingly. Good thing our coaching staff is on the ball.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;589191]Having just 2 QBs on the roster.

Being that most teams carry 3 and the fact that we picked up Woodson a couple of days after we IR'ed Colt and cut Chase I personally thought they take a flyer on Garcia especially with his West Coast Offense ties and the FO's lust for big names.[/quote]
Who would you want to cut to bring a 3rd qb in? (spare me the Wynn songs we need every Dline guy for rotation purposes through the season)

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

We had two QB's for about 2-3 days before we signed Woodson to the practice squad. That is when I noticed the Raiders dropped Garcia.

Being the Skins love the big name I put two and two together. Not saying I'd sing in the streets if we signed him just saying that's a move I expect the name loving Skins to make.

Re: can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb
 

[quote=mredskins;589115]^Everyone is a little JR Mod, no need to lock it, if you don't like the title don't click on the link.[/quote]

You would think its just that easy, yet ppl will repeatedly come back and say lock the thread if its not to their liking or not going their way.