Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614483]Personally I don't believe Gibbs will come back. Maybe they'll make him a part-owner or something. But, I think at the end of the day Gibbs will realize (or someone will make him realize) that he's got too much on his plate and he's not the type to "half-ass" anything[/quote]

One thing about Joe Gibbs is that he is not going to do just enough. If he doesn't think he can put his whole heart and effort into something, then he is not going to do it. I kind of have my doubts about it as well, although he does appear to have a kinship and passion for the Redskins. So, who knows? Maybe he comes in just long enough to hire a respectable GM and Coach and leaves again. Or maybe he comes in to just be a "public relations" type of guy.

At this point, I just want a change for the better.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;614271]His only bad small picks were Desmond Howard and Randel El. Gary Clark, Charlie Brown, Ricky Sanders, and Santana Moss were brilliant acquisitions - wouldn't you agree?[/quote]

You have to add all of his FA acquisitions too not just Moss. Davis Patten, Brandon Lloyd, and Antwan Randel El. I would throw Thrash in there as well, but he was an Undrafted FA by the Skins under Turner. But wait we did send a 5th round pick to the Eagles to get him back. That 5th round pick became DE Trent Cole. We got hosed on that deal.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

If Gibbs can basically become President Emeritus and be given the opportunity to hire our next GM it [B]HAS TO BE BETTER[/B] than DS hiring the guy. Despite his unending efforts deserving of praise and willingness to spend money DS just doesn't make good football decisions. At least he hasn't. Gibbs on the other hand, does. In fact his greatest strength actually might be identifying quality football people.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614483]Personally I don't believe Gibbs will come back. Maybe they'll make him a part-owner or something. But, I think at the end of the day Gibbs will realize (or someone will make him realize) that he's got too much on his plate and he's not the type to "half-ass" anything[/quote]
Besides family what else is on his plate? Racing went on without him for 4 years and I'm pretty sure that all he does now days are PR type stuff.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

Gibbs loves the Redskins.

Snyder idolizes Gibbs.

Gibbs demands a Parcells type role with the Redskins.

5 years time we will be back at the top, but it will be long and painful but still not as painful as it is now.

Can we as fans wait that long or will Generation ADD demand instant wins?

Be good to see Gregg Williams come back as HC.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=firstdown;614525]Besides family what else is on his plate? Racing went on without him for 4 years and I'm pretty sure that all he does now days are PR type stuff.[/quote]

Well family is a big thing. And he split time between NASCAR and the Redskins, during those four years. It's not like he completely abandoned NASCAR. And it's not just PR stuff. As owner of a Sprint Cup Series and a Nationwide team (not to mention his oversight of Coy's motocross team), that's 500 plus people he's overseeing but more importantly he's responsible for managing and renewing sponsorships (which is a major deal in racing), as well as dealing with some driver contracts that are coming up. Plus he owns and manages some indoor race tracks, and has his Game Plan for Life book/website/"ministry" and the Youth for Tomorrow center (which I don't think takes up a large chunk of his time)

But anyhow, he's got a lot to do. Fortunately for him, most of what he does is based in NC and his family is there with him so that makes it easier than say flying back and forth to DC

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614531][B]Well family is a big thing.[/B] [/quote]I haven't followed Gibbs since he left other than to hear about his book. Do you know how his grandson is doing? I would imagine that is a huge factor for him.

Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

The minute Joe Gibbs decides to return to Redskins Park there will be a presser about the presser; an annoucement about the annoucement. Dan Snyder will then craft same weird, pseudo "president/executive" title for Joe Gibbs that gives the impression that Gibbs is fully vested, but not too involved. Standing side by side at the podium, Gibbs and Snyder tell the press that Gibbs' role will be the architect orchestrating everything from the background, yet delegating to his hand picked head coach and newly minted GM. Following the presser every Redskin interview will be consumed with what they think about the legendary Joe Gibbs coming back to the franchise that is now --and finally -- moving in the right direction. The players follow the script, toe the company line, and are effusive with praise about the entire move. Then we all live happily ever after.

I hate to be Debbie Downer, I really do, but the more I think about Joe Gibbs coming back, in any capacity, the more I don't like it and I'm against it happening. First of all, if Gibbs' family is his priority then, with all due respect, he shouldn't come back to football. Isn't that why he retired the first and second time around? My fundamental question is, and what every Redskin fan should be asking, has that reason changed now that the Redskins are sinking - once again? I'm simply tired of a bunch of off season hype, recycled bodies and ideas, and half-assed results or better yet, no results at all.

For nearly a decade Dan Snyder has been successful at prying away just about every big name and no name free agent, and several coaches to come to Washington. There's no doubt he's a very savvy and results oriented business man. But somewhere in the NFL, right now, there's an [I]active [/I]head coach and GM combo that have been laboring in the shadows for years. Now Mr. Snyder needs to go out and find the[I] next[/I] Joe Gibbs; find the [I]next [/I]Bobby Beathard!

To me this is nothing more than Danny's version of Jerry Jones building that huge complex down in Texas. Great for PR and revenue, but little has changed on the field. We as fans are tired of big flashy titles and the ghosts of past Super Bowls lurking around this franchise. I wish Dan Snyder would tend to his business and let Joe Gibbs tend to his.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

I really don't understand what's to hate about him coming back in a limited role, nor do I understand why this couldn't have been posted in the other Gibbs thread. :doh:

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;614558]I haven't followed Gibbs since he left other than to hear about his book. Do you know how his grandson is doing? I would imagine that is a huge factor for him.[/quote]

I haven't really inquired lately. I could ask I guess

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614574]The minute Joe Gibbs decides to return to Redskins Park there will be a presser about the presser; an annoucement about the annoucement. Dan Snyder will then craft same weird, pseudo "president/executive" title for Joe Gibbs that gives the impression that Gibbs is fully vested, but not too involved. Standing side by side at the podium, Gibbs and Snyder tell the press that Gibbs' role will be the architect orchestrating everything from the background, yet delegating to his hand picked head coach and newly minted GM. Following the presser every Redskin interview will be consumed with what they think about the legendary Joe Gibbs coming back to the franchise that is now --and finally -- moving in the right direction. The players follow the script, toe the company line, and are effusive with praise about the entire move. Then we all live happily ever after.

I hate to be Debbie Downer, I really do, but the more I think about Joe Gibbs coming back, in any capacity, the more I don't like it and I'm against it happening. First of all, if Gibbs' family is his priority then, with all due respect, he shouldn't come back to football. Isn't that why he retired the first and second time around? My fundamental question is, and what every Redskin fan should be asking, has that reason changed now that the Redskins are sinking - once again? I'm simply tired of a bunch of off season hype, recycled bodies and ideas, and half-assed results or better yet, no results at all.

For nearly a decade Dan Snyder has been successful at prying away just about every big name and no name free agent, and several coaches to come to Washington. There's no doubt he's a very savvy and results oriented business man. But somewhere in the NFL, right now, there's an [I]active [/I]head coach and GM combo that have been laboring in the shadows for years. Now Mr. Snyder needs to go out and find the[I] next[/I] Joe Gibbs; find the [I]next [/I]Bobby Beathard!

To me this is nothing more than Danny's version of Jerry Jones building that huge complex down in Texas. Great for PR and revenue, but little has changed on the field. We as fans are tired of big flashy titles and the ghosts of past Super Bowls lurking around this franchise. I wish Dan Snyder would tend to his business and let Joe Gibbs tend to his.[/quote]

A couple of questions

1. What's wrong with enlisting Gibbs to help him find the next Beathard and the next Gibbs?

2. Given the choices who would you most trust (least not trust?) to head up our football operations-Gibbs, Cerrato, or Shanahan?

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;614270]Say what you want about Gibbs. It was he who decided to draft Sean Taylor when the entire world was telling him to draft Winslow. The only questionable pick was Jason Campbell. Also, he did a great job drafting Cooley in the second round too. I'm sure these points have been raised already. But I didn't read all 11 pages, so excuse the redundancy.[/quote]


Gibbs also drafted JC and threw away multiple picks to do so. It's only fair to mention those as well. We could go on and on. CP was in his ear about ST.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614580]A couple of questions

1. What's wrong with enlisting Gibbs to help him find the next Beathard and the next Gibbs?

2. Given the choices who would you most trust (least not trust?) to head up our football operations-Gibbs, Cerrato, or Shanahan?[/quote]


I asked the same question to him and he said Cerrato. I'm sure he's alone in those thoughts.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=Mattyk72;614576]I really don't understand what's to hate about him coming back in a limited role, nor do I understand why this couldn't have been posted in the other Gibbs thread. :doh:[/quote]

It's the best we can do if you really think about it. Joe Gibbs is the only person on Earth that DS will allow to run the organization. Anyone else will result in being his puppet.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=redsk1;614584]Gibbs also drafted JC and threw away multiple picks to do so. It's only fair to mention those as well. We could go on and on. CP was in his ear about ST.[/quote]


Yeah but what would be the point since Gibbs wouldn't be the one in charge of player personnel anyway?

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614580]A couple of questions

1. What's wrong with enlisting Gibbs to help him find the next Beathard and the next Gibbs?

2. Given the choices who would you most trust (least not trust?) to head up our football operations-Gibbs, Cerrato, or Shanahan?[/quote]

1. Why didn't he do it when he was here during his second stint? He was here four years. He had ample time to either pluck his successor from the ranks or drop some reliable names on Danny. Neither happened. If they didn't deem it important then, what has changed now?

2. I gotta tell you, and this shocks me that I'm even saying this, but Cerrato. I think when you look at the players that Gibbs selected and the ones that Vinny drafted, I really think it's pretty close. I'm talking purely from a talent evaluation standpoint. So then you have to look at the intangibles. Obvisouly Gibbs brings much more to the table in that department. But since he'll supposedly be playing a limited role, how much will his influence actually impact what goes on in the lockerroom or the football field? I fear not very much. Gibbs' influence is best felt and demonstrated up close and personal. That's his magic. Always has been, always will be. He took that same magic to NASCAR and made it work.

Shanahan? Eh, I'm totally indifferent to him one way or another. Take him or leave him.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;614590]It's the best we can do if you really think about it. Joe Gibbs is the only person on Earth that DS will allow to run the organization. Anyone else will result in being his puppet.[/quote]

BINGO!!!! And nobody with a good reputation in the NFL is going to want to come to Washington and put up with that unless they are desperate for work.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=skinsguy;614593]BINGO!!!! And nobody with a good reputation in the NFL is going to want to come to Washington and put up with that unless they are desperate for work.[/quote]

I think you guys are being very presumptous that "no one" will come here. I wouldn't be so quick to think that. Snyder has brought a lot of "no ones" here.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614592]1. Why didn't he do it when he was here during his second stint? He was here four years. He had ample time to either pluck his successor from the ranks or drop some reliable names on Danny. Neither happened. If they didn't deem it important then, what has changed now?

2. I gotta tell you, and this shocks me that I'm even saying this, but Cerrato. I think when you look at the players that Gibbs selected and the ones that Vinny drafted, I really think it's pretty close. I'm talking purely from a talent evaluation standpoint. So then you have to look at the intangibles. Obvisouly Gibbs brings much more to the table in that department.[B] But since he'll supposedly be playing a limited role, how much will his influence actually impact what goes on in the lockerroom or the football field? [/B]I fear not very much. Gibbs' influence is best felt and demonstrated up close and personal. That's his magic. Always has been, always will be. He took that same magic to NASCAR and made it work.

Shanahan? Eh, I'm totally indifferent to him one way or another. Take him or leave him.[/quote]


Honestly it really shouldn't matter. We would hope whoever Gibbs would choose as GM and coach would have the full influence with what happens on the football field and the locker room.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

I keep hearing Doug Williams name in posts. He's been a personel exec at TB since 2004. What exactly are his qualifications? TB hasn't been very good for awhile now. I don't recall their drafts being that great. What's so special about Doug Williams? Is it just the name?

He's drafted Gaines Adams, Talib (good pick), Josh Freeman-the jury is still out in the last few years.

We've all talked about not bringing in someone just b/c he's got a name. Seems like they are younger and more talented guys out there. Thoughts.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614595]I think you guys are being very presumptous that "no one" will come here. I wouldn't be so quick to think that. Snyder has brought a lot of "no ones" here.[/quote]

Like who? A college coach that had no business in the NFL? A QB coach that was put in over his head? The only two reliable moves Snyder has made was hiring Schotty and Gibbs, and he fired Marty and Gibbs retired. I haven't seen anything much from Vinny that tells me he needs to stay in Washington.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=skinsguy;614596]Honestly it really shouldn't matter. We would hope whoever Gibbs would choose as GM and coach would have the full influence with what happens on the football field and the locker room.[/quote]


So wait a minute, it seems to me the crux of this argument is that Gibbs will somehow lure a coach and GM here that Snyder can't? Yet Snyder is still owner, has final say, and signs the paychecks? Huh?

This makes absolutely no sense to me. None.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=redsk1;614597]I keep hearing Doug Williams name in posts. He's been a personel exec at TB since 2004. What exactly are his qualifications? TB hasn't been very good for awhile now. I don't recall their drafts being that great. What's so special about Doug Williams? Is it just the name?

He's drafted Gaines Adams, Talib (good pick), Josh Freeman-the jury is still out in the last few years.

We've all talked about not bringing in someone just b/c he's got a name. Seems like they are younger and more talented guys out there. Thoughts.[/quote]

I agree with you. I, unfortunately don't know enough about up and coming GMs in the NFL to know who else would be the better choice. I definitely would hope for a younger Bobby Beathard type though.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=skinsguy;614603]I agree with you. I, unfortunately don't know enough about up and coming GMs in the NFL to know who else would be the better choice. I definitely would hope for a younger Bobby Beathard type though.[/quote]

Eric DeCosta or Brian Gaines are your young Beathards.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=skinsguy;614600]Like who? A college coach that had no business in the NFL? A QB coach that was put in over his head? The only two reliable moves Snyder has made was hiring Schotty and Gibbs, and he fired Marty and Gibbs retired. I haven't seen anything much from Vinny that tells me he needs to stay in Washington.[/quote]

No don't get it twisted, Vinny needs to go. But out of the menu of choices that were presented me and the reasons why, Vinny hasn't been that much worse than Gibbs. I'm willing to be wrong about this if you can sift through who drafted whom.

And like I said, Gibbs has those intangibles that are difficult to find in today's NFL. But if it was all about intangibles and character, we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614601]So wait a minute, it seems to me the crux of this argument is that Gibbs will somehow lure a coach and GM here that Snyder can't? Yet Snyder is still owner, has final say, and signs the paychecks? Huh?

This makes absolutely no sense to me. None.[/quote]

It makes perfect sense if you think about it. It's a PR move. Gibbs would be the guy that those candidates would communicate with, not Dan Snyder and especially not someone like Vinny Cerrato. All Dan would need to do is sign off and write the checks.

It's just like other businesses. For instance, my director is over the entire agency, but it was my immediate supervisor who hired me, not that director. All he does is sign his name on my paycheck. He wasn't in the interview process, he just basically decided if my boss had enough budget to hire someone. That makes perfect sense.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

Well the X factor I guess is Cerrato. Guys like Fassel and Gregg Williams (and who knows who else) couldn't work with Snyder if Cerrato was the third person in the triumvirate. Snyder made the decision to stick with Vinny and it seems to have backfired. Not that Williams or Fassel necessarily would have been the right choice. Anyhow, I suspect no one (except maybe LaVar) would have an issue working with Snyder if Gibbs was the other guy in the equation.

Again, I don't think Gibbs will come back when all is said and done but I think he could be an asset. He does have that ability to influence up close and personal, but he also is a skilled CEO who knows how to step up and properly delegate and reward.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614605]No don't get it twisted, Vinny needs to go. But out of the menu of choices that were presented me and the reasons why, Vinny hasn't been that much worse than Gibbs. I'm willing to be wrong about this if you can sift through who drafted whom.

And like I said, Gibbs has those intangibles that are difficult to find in today's NFL. But if it was all about intangibles and character, we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?[/quote]

Why are you going back to draft picks? This position has nothing to do with player personnel. This is about someone who could build an organization up from the front office (which is where it NEEDS improvement) and those guys that are hired are the ones who build the team. Gibbs never owned a racing team in his life. He built the team and the team won championships. Why would you think he could not do this with football, a sport that he has been successful with as a coach?

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614607]Well the X factor I guess is Cerrato. Guys like Fassel and Gregg Williams (and who knows who else) couldn't work with Snyder if Cerrato was the third person in the triumvirate. Snyder made the decision to stick with Vinny and it seems to have backfired. Not that Williams or Fassel necessarily would have been the right choice. Anyhow, I suspect no one (except maybe LaVar) would have an issue working with Snyder if Gibbs was the other guy in the equation.

Again, I don't think Gibbs will come back when all is said and done but I think he could be an asset. He does have that ability to influence up close and personal, but he also is a skilled CEO who knows how to step up and properly delegate and reward.[/quote]

The thing I'm against the most about all of this is the fanfare that comes along with the move. It's just impossible to know that Joe Gibbs is somewhere in the building and not think Super Bowl. All the pieces have to be perfectly aligned and snyched for that to be a healthy environment. And the last thing this organization needs is for there to be a disconnect between top brass and the guys playing between the white lines on Sunday.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;614604]Eric DeCosta or Brian Gaines are your young Beathards.[/quote]

So there are two names we can work with. Who else?

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=12thMan;614611]The thing I'm against the most about all of this is the fanfare that comes along with the move. It's just impossible to know that Joe Gibbs is somewhere in the building and not think Super Bowl. All the pieces have to be perfectly aligned and snyched for that to be a healthy environment. And the last thing this organization needs is for there to be a disconnect between top brass and the guys playing between the white lines on Sunday.[/quote]

I have a feeling that disconnect has already been disconnected long before this conversation ever came up.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

AND THAT is what makes the deal good.
I personally do not believe Joe3 will be involved in any kind of chicanery cooked up by DanFinger to bamboozle fans. He is a better man than that. His history opens many doors that are closed to others. He KNOWS what is takes to win. He has proven through his NASCAR dealings and success that he can build and run a cooperate empire.
He has DS's trust and his ear. I cannot imagine WHO could be a better fit for the mission at hand, and to excoriate the cancerous Vinnie?

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614607]Well the X factor I guess is Cerrato. Guys like Fassel and Gregg Williams (and who knows who else) couldn't work with Snyder if Cerrato was the third person in the triumvirate. Snyder made the decision to stick with Vinny and it seems to have backfired. Not that Williams or Fassel necessarily would have been the right choice. Anyhow, I suspect no one (except maybe LaVar) would have an issue working with Snyder if Gibbs was the other guy in the equation.

Again, I don't think Gibbs will come back when all is said and done but I think he could be an asset. He does have that ability to influence up close and personal, but he also is a skilled CEO who knows how to step up and properly delegate and reward.[/quote]Seems like the problem was that all the potential options (after Schwartz pulled his name) were very flawed.

Snyder had good options, but he took a very long time in the process, losing some of the better names while waiting for different names.

Sadly, the same indecisiveness may have cost us a chance to salvage the season. The Detroit loss was bad, but we followed it up with a disappointing 1-2, which could have been 3-0 if we had taken a different organizational approach and gave Zorn the vote of confidence when it was appropriate.

Would it have mattered if we were 4-2, but go out this week and lose to the Eagles because they are a better team? I don't think so. This is not a good enough team to make the playoffs. But management really, really made this a bigger mess by waiting. Again.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=skinsguy;614610]Why are you going back to draft picks? This position has nothing to do with player personnel. This is about someone who could build an organization up from the front office (which is where it NEEDS improvement) and those guys that are hired are the ones who build the team. Gibbs never owned a racing team in his life. [I]He built the team and the team won championships.[/I] Why would you think he could not do this with football, a sport that he has been successful with as a coach?[/quote]

If we're comparing apples to apples, how else can I compare Vinny and Gibbs? I'm looking at the respective roster moves they are/were responsible for. And to completely frank here, I'm not sure who was responsible for drafting whom during Gibbs' second stint. I know Gibbs drafted Taylor, but Vinny may have liked him too.

Joe Gibbs is a great person and possesses certain qualities that are rare and valued in a leader. And yes he built a great racing organization, but his success here in Washington was because he had capable and intelligent men around him from top to bottom.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614619]If we're comparing apples to apples, how else can I compare Vinny and Gibbs? I'm looking at the respective roster moves they are/were responsible for. And to completely frank here, I'm not sure who was responsible for drafting whom during Gibbs' second stint. I know Gibbs drafted Taylor, but Vinny may have liked him too.

Joe Gibbs is a great person and possesses certain qualities that are rare and valued in a leader. And yes he built a great racing organization, but [B]his success here in Washington was because he had capable nd intelligent men around him from top to bottom.[/B][/quote]

You seem to be discounting rather heavily the achievments of Joe like the the three Lombardies......
Rather average? Sort of like you or I could have done it in similar situations?

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614607]Again, I don't think Gibbs will come back when all is said and done but I think he could be an asset. He does have that ability to influence up close and personal, but he also is a skilled CEO who knows how to step up and properly delegate and reward.[/quote]

Exactly...and this is what we need. A culture change. Forget the who's and the how's. We need a culture change in the FO of this org. To me Gibbs seems like the perfect guy for that. Almost without fail the people he brings in as football guys are good in terms of football and just plain management style. I would argue our product on the field when Gibbs was here the second time was not reflective of the better culture he worked to build. Given the opportunity to step back from coaching and personnel he might be able to actually effect some permanent change to the FO instead on the temporary we had while he was here.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614619]If we're comparing apples to apples, how else can I compare Vinny and Gibbs? I'm looking at the respective roster moves they are/were responsible for. And to completely frank here, I'm not sure who was responsible for drafting whom during Gibbs' second stint. I know Gibbs drafted Taylor, but Vinny may have liked him too.

Joe Gibbs is a great person and possesses certain qualities that are rare and valued in a leader. And yes he built a great racing organization, [B]but his success here in Washington was because he had capable and intelligent men around him from top to bottom.[/B][/quote]

Exactly why we need someone like Joe Gibbs or someone who has the respect that Gibbs carries in Washington so that we can hire those capable and intelligent men from top to bottom. Look at the process that the Redskins franchise went through in finding a head coach before last season: Who the heck hires all the coordinators before the head coach? Only to wind up promoting one of those coordinators to head coach because Snyder and company drew the process out so long? I don't see that as being intelligent or capable of building a great franchise. I understand being careful and not just hiring the first guy that comes through the doors with a resume, but geez, how many of the playoff/elite teams went through that same process to hire their GMs and coaches? What we have right now is broken. Gibbs does have CEO knowledge and football knowledge. Dan Snyder went bankrupt with six flags for pete's sake! Gibbs certainly isn't the only choice, but I would trust someone like him over Vinny.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=GTripp0012;614618]Seems like the problem was that all the potential options (after Schwartz pulled his name) were very flawed.

Snyder had good options, but he took a very long time in the process, losing some of the better names while waiting for different names.

Sadly, the same indecisiveness may have cost us a chance to salvage the season. The Detroit loss was bad, but we followed it up with a disappointing 1-2, which could have been 3-0 if we had taken a different organizational approach and gave Zorn the vote of confidence when it was appropriate.

Would it have mattered if we were 4-2, but go out this week and lose to the Eagles because they are a better team? I don't think so. This is not a good enough team to make the playoffs. But management really, really made this a bigger mess by waiting. Again.[/quote]
I agree. And it's why I have lost confidence in DS finally. He just can't make good football decisions. Maybe he is TOO CLOSE emotionally to the Redskins. He tried to be patient for whatever reason. Be it image-related or simply that he thought Zorn just needed time. Either way it was a bad decision. One in a long line of them. I don't lack confidence that DS wants to win more than anything. I doubt his ability to make the right decisions to do so. Wanting and doing are very different things.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=FRPLG;614625]I agree. And it's why I have lost confidence in DS finally. He just can't make good football decisions. Maybe he is TOO CLOSE emotionally to the Redskins. He tried to be patient for whatever reason. Be it image-related or simply that he thought Zorn just needed time. Either way it was a bad decision. One in a long line of them. I don't lack confidence that DS wants to win more than anything. I doubt his ability to make the right decisions to do so. Wanting and doing are very different things.[/quote]Agreed. I have two opposing thought processes off of this:

#1) The franchise is screwed because the only thing Snyder fears more than another decade of losing is that someone else gets credit for fixing the team

#2) The franchise is not screwed because they've done relatively well in the draft, and some chair shifting of the off-season sort can get them back on the winning track.

Of course, the million dollar question is not "can this team be fixed?" its "who can fix this team?"

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=FRPLG;614625]I agree. And it's why I have lost confidence in DS finally. He just can't make good football decisions. Maybe he is TOO CLOSE emotionally to the Redskins. He tried to be patient for whatever reason. Be it image-related or simply that he thought Zorn just needed time. Either way it was a bad decision. One in a long line of them. I don't lack confidence that DS wants to win more than anything. I doubt his ability to make the right decisions to do so. Wanting and doing are very different things.[/quote]

On that same note, I also don't think him selling the team is the solution either. But if Snyder is still in the picture, I'm still not sure how much Gibbs can affect the culture.